BTDT2012 Posted March 9, 2019 Share Posted March 9, 2019 Once you have finished being angry and disgusted, it will be time to look at your part in this. The two of you started at the same place. You've got a lot of life ahead of you. Use it well. I wish you all the best. Link to post Share on other sites
BaileyB Posted March 9, 2019 Share Posted March 9, 2019 He has done this before. No doubt in my mind whatsoever. Some time ago, he said he'd kept our original messages from the website and he emailed them to me. That I made an impression on him like no one else he'd been messaging with. You think he has done this before? What was your first clue... He is a married man! What is he doing messaging women on a dating website? This man was actively looking to cheat on his wife. And, you were one of many women he has been messaging with... who knows how many other women also took the bait. Link to post Share on other sites
BTDT2012 Posted March 9, 2019 Share Posted March 9, 2019 You think he has done this before? What was your first clue... He is a married man! What is he doing messaging women on a dating website? This man was actively looking to cheat on his wife. And, you were one of many women he has been messaging with... who knows how many other women also took the bait. They were both looking to cheat. Link to post Share on other sites
BaileyB Posted March 9, 2019 Share Posted March 9, 2019 They were both looking to cheat. Totally. And that is where all the trouble started... Link to post Share on other sites
S2B Posted March 9, 2019 Share Posted March 9, 2019 The “impression” you gave him was: Vulnerable Willing That was all he needed. Link to post Share on other sites
Author PhoenixRising8 Posted March 9, 2019 Author Share Posted March 9, 2019 Once you have finished being angry and disgusted, it will be time to look at your part in this. The two of you started at the same place. You've got a lot of life ahead of you. Use it well. I wish you all the best. I have been looking at my part in this, for months now. Yes, we started in the same place, for different reasons. I had already told my ex we were done and the marriage was over. He wouldn't leave and didn't for a couple of months. Not until he had not choice because he had turned our daughter against him also. Why an MM even though singles were out there? Because subconsciously I knew I wasn't ready for someone available. Because I needed to feel alive again after years of feeling dead. Because I needed a lifebouy as I was sinking fast. Because I was desperate. Link to post Share on other sites
BaileyB Posted March 9, 2019 Share Posted March 9, 2019 Why an MM even though singles were out there? Because subconsciously I knew I wasn't ready for someone available. Because I needed to feel alive again after years of feeling dead. Because I needed a lifebouy as I was sinking fast. Because I was desperate. I get that. Really, I hear you Kat. The next part of this however, is to understand how you were able to do something so hurtful to another woman and her children? I understand that you made this decision because you were desperate and you needed a lifeline... you were stuck in your own pain and unable to consider the situation from a different perspective. But respectfully, it’s important to step outside yourself and consider how you could do something that was so hurtful to another person. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
Author PhoenixRising8 Posted March 9, 2019 Author Share Posted March 9, 2019 When you are desperate it's self preservation. Every (wo)man for himself. He said it was self preservation for him also. My ex didn't deserve consideration. I didn't think about his wife. That was his vow, his job. Since I will never again be involved with someone with a commitment, that question is irrelevant because my normal rational self wouldn't do that to someone else. Link to post Share on other sites
Bittersweetie Posted March 9, 2019 Share Posted March 9, 2019 Since I will never again be involved with someone with a commitment, that question is irrelevant because my normal rational self wouldn't do that to someone else. Respectfully, it is not an irrelevant question. After my d-day and all the pain in the aftermath, I vowed I would never have an affair again, after I experienced the consequences firsthand. But that vow was just words without the self-examination/reflection to back them up. You don't need to start it this minute, but your own self-reflection and examination will only help you in the future, not only in relationships, but in your overall mental health. I started just looking at why I would have an affair and I ended up addressing many issues within myself, all of which benefited me and my whole self. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Snipercatt Posted March 9, 2019 Share Posted March 9, 2019 When you are desperate it's self preservation. And, the consequences of your choices are why you find yourself where you were/are. As you declare you won’t find yourself “here”, again, with, or without, Tom, you may find yourself desperate (vulnerable, abandoned, etc.), thus making positive choices will promote better outcomes. Putting a profile on Ashley Madison, most assuredly, guaranteed you’d experience the outcome you experienced. Link to post Share on other sites
Author PhoenixRising8 Posted March 9, 2019 Author Share Posted March 9, 2019 I don't disagree. I allowed myself to get so low I wasn't thinking straight. I didn't think what the consequences of an affair would be, the fallout. I didn't think I was capable at that point of attaching or loving. I'm in IC now and will continue. And when I find myself sinking to that dark place, I will seek out IC, if I'm not in it, to get myself out. This has been a major learning experience and I generally don't require the same lesson more than once. Tom was useful for many reasons. He helped me through a bad separation. He made me laugh and feel again. I guess I can thank him for that. But he is broken whether or not he accepts that. And that is not what I need or want in my life. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
elaine567 Posted March 9, 2019 Share Posted March 9, 2019 But he is broken... Is "broken" the correct word? Seems to me, he just took advantage of a situation that got him what he wanted. An OW to bolster up his marriage. He was on a dating website looking for an affair, and he got one. Link to post Share on other sites
BaileyB Posted March 9, 2019 Share Posted March 9, 2019 I allowed myself to get so low I wasn't thinking straight. I didn't think what the consequences of an affair would be, the fallout. I didn't think I was capable at that point of attaching or loving. I'm in IC now and will continue. And when I find myself sinking to that dark place, I will seek out IC, if I'm not in it, to get myself out. Tom was useful for many reasons. He helped me through a bad separation. He made me laugh and feel again. I’m glad that you have now found a more constructive way to deal with a dark place... Devils advocate, did you really not know the consequences of the affair and weren’t you really not capable of attaching or loving? It seems to me, that you got very attached, very quickly. Despite what you say, I wonder if you continue to use the same coping mechanism, given the fact that you went on a date with a new man last week. It seems to me that the “consequence” you wanted was for this man to leave his wife and family. You booked a cruise with this man and you planned to sail of into the sunset together... When you started this thread, you could not be convinced that you were not going to get the outcome you wanted. Things may not have turnd out the way you wanted, I just wonder if you are rewriting history a bit here to make your decisions a little more acceptable... given the outcome. You can disagree with me, and I’m sure you will. Just food for thought... Link to post Share on other sites
Naivewomen Posted March 9, 2019 Share Posted March 9, 2019 Kat, I agree he is broken!! Something is missing in his marriage or he wouldn't need to 'bolster' it. He will search again because he misses excitement, thrill and passion with his wife but he WILL never leave her. None of them do!! So sorry you experienced an axxhole. You, me and many OW were way too trusting Continued to believe these manipulators. They were very good at the game!! They won and got exactly what they needed to boost their egos. Never let him think you are pining for him. Be done and be really done. You will pull through stronger than ever before!! Sending you virtual hugs. Link to post Share on other sites
Author PhoenixRising8 Posted March 9, 2019 Author Share Posted March 9, 2019 @Elaine Something in him is not right. He took someone vulnerable, depressed and hopeless and made a full on effort to sweep her off her feet. Then he told her he wanted a life for them, not just an affair. And he took steps to prove to her he wanted them together like telling his spouse he wanted a divorce, now spending weekends with her. And then he started to backtrack, until she finally figured out whether or not he momentarily meant what he said, now he was just prolonging her pain. He knew and she told him, she would rather have the truth. But he lied repeatedly just so he could have what he wanted. He didn't care how he hurt his wife. He didn't care how he hurt someone he professed to love, someone who had just gone through the worst year of her life. That's not broken ... Link to post Share on other sites
Author PhoenixRising8 Posted March 10, 2019 Author Share Posted March 10, 2019 @bailey. I'm not rewriting history. Unless you have been so despondent you aren't thinking straight, you wouldn't understand. So no, I wasn't thinking about long term consequences. I wanted companionship. Someone to talk to and yes someone to find me desirable. It was all supposed to be just a bit of fun. I didn't employ Kepner Tregoe's decision making analysis theory. And after being emotionally dead for years, no I didn't think I could trust, attach and love. Everyone in my life, except my grandparents, had disappointed me, broken my trust, hurt me. Turns out Tom did the same in the end. As for the consequences of him leaving his wife, he wasn't happy with her, they had a bad marriage and he was having a difficult time leaving because of guilt and obligation and a 30 year history. He wanted to leave. He wanted a life with me. I didn't start that whole discussion. Except it was all a ruse. It took me two months to start to wonder if he was being honest and another three to stop making excuses and give up hope. You can think I'm rewriting history if you wish. I doesn't matter in the end. I thank you for the valuable advise you and others have provided. Without that perhaps I would still be hoping an illusion will come to fruition. Link to post Share on other sites
elaine567 Posted March 10, 2019 Share Posted March 10, 2019 definition of "broken" suffering emotional pain that is so strong that it changes the way you live, usually as a result of an unpleasant event. Is that him or is that now you? Link to post Share on other sites
Author PhoenixRising8 Posted March 10, 2019 Author Share Posted March 10, 2019 I've been broken most of my life. He may or may not be broken but he does not live his life in a way that is good and caring and moral. Link to post Share on other sites
BTDT2012 Posted March 10, 2019 Share Posted March 10, 2019 As for the consequences of him leaving his wife, he wasn't happy with her, they had a bad marriage and he was having a difficult time leaving because of guilt and obligation and a 30 year history. He wanted to leave. He wanted a life with me. And then he thought about how you met and decided the risk wasn't worth the potential reward. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author PhoenixRising8 Posted March 10, 2019 Author Share Posted March 10, 2019 Then he didn’t have to keep up the charade particularly since we broke up and he only got me to meet him after he said he wanted to reconcile, but not just as an affair. I call that false pretences. He knew I wasn’t going to meet him to resume the affair. Link to post Share on other sites
S2B Posted March 10, 2019 Share Posted March 10, 2019 (edited) As for the consequences of him leaving his wife, he wasn't happy with her, they had a bad marriage and he was having a difficult time leaving because of guilt and obligation and a 30 year history. He wanted to leave. He wanted a life with me. I didn't start that whole discussion. Except it was all a ruse. It took me two months to start to wonder if he was being honest and another three to stop making excuses and give up hope. He was having a difficult time leaving because he never intended to leave her. He was online looking for an affair, remember? And his M may or may not have been dead... but seriously... he wasn’t trying with all his energy to improve that marriage! Instead he placed his energy and focus outside the M... so how could that M actually be a good one when only one person was putting in the effort to make the M good? It isn’t possible. Think about it - 1+1 = 2 ...yet HE took the route of 1+0 and still expected it to look like 2...and his wife didn’t understand he quit participating on a level that made it impossible to equal 2. So he was never participating as her husband who wanted to improve his relationship with his wife. Anyway you twist it the marriage had no way of looking like a happy marriage because he wasn’t INVESTING in the marriage/relationship. And guess what... whoever he ends up with will get the same crap from him as well. It’s all he’s capable of... emotionally bankrupt and runs away when any woman actually expects decency FROM HIM. He may have had a woman figure in his past who he despised... his Mom perhaps? He’s unable to fully commit to a woman and fully invest his whole self - so he runs away when the time for anything significant comes along. Will he use women? Oh yes. Be glad it’s no longer you. You may be broken... but you can explore that and learn and grow. Heck, most folks are broken based on their own experience. Me? Oh yes... very much from an abusive past. And as much as I’ve learned that I can only depend on myself for what I need - I still make effort to learn how to trust people more. But the few people I do trust have more than earned that trust. I do my best to participate in an honest and authentic way - but to be honest there are times I just don’t even know how I feel about things/situations. I have to step way back to get clarity on most emotional situations. My trauma counselor once asked me “what do you want from others?”... and then followed up with “how can YOU get THAT FROM YOURSELF?” That’s when a light bulb went off for me. I can really only count on myself. Even my Mother - I cant count on her. She will always encourage me to run backwards - to become that weak and wimpy gal - and I will NEVER go back there again! So I hope you can learn a way that works for you. It took me weekly sessions for more than a year with a top ranked trauma counselor to see my way... my extensive treatment cost me $60K - and ya know what? It was worth every penny. So when I can come here and encourage other women to become strong and courageous - I feel I’m sharing info that cost me a boatload of money. It’s hard! It is worth it though. Edited March 10, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator 4 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author PhoenixRising8 Posted March 10, 2019 Author Share Posted March 10, 2019 Yes S2B, you are right. He didn't intend to leave ... ever. He had no reason to even tell me that. Those were not my expectations going in. I made no demands. He started that roller coaster. What's really pi$$es me off is we ended the affair. 10 days NC and he comes back saying how much he missed me and us. It brought clarity to him that us is what he wanted. I told him I have no interest in resuming the affair. That's over. He knew, or should have known, I meant it. Right back to telling me he's leaving. So I agreed to listen. Good thing I had no expectations. First thing I asked was why should I believe you this time. He agreed I should have reservations given how he's gone back and forth and by the end of the conversation he was right back at it. The man has no morals or scruples, no heart, soul or conscience. It's all about him so yes, she can have him. The only regret I have is ever being an epic and colossal fool to believe his lies. Like you, I had plenty of abuse. I am the adult child of a philandering abusive alcoholic. Seems I keep attracting the wrong sorts. I know that which is why I started IC. Too bad I didn't start it before I met Tom. I don't know why I ever believed Prince Charming could have been found on AM. I guess I was projecting me in him and he was doing a great job mirroring me. This one aberration aside, I have always had good morals and lived with integrity. I look forward to living that way again. When the reality started to set in a number of months ago, I found the guilt eating me up. For the last two weeks, I've found the anxiety lift almost immediately. I guess all I can do is try to regain what I've lost through this experience and move forward, remembering the hard lessons I've learned. Link to post Share on other sites
S2B Posted March 10, 2019 Share Posted March 10, 2019 You will... you are on your way now. Set your standards high. That’s the only way to eliminate the men who show red flags. You gotta be willing to eliminate men based on red flags... also eliminate when the words and actions don’t match up. Having high standards and little tolerance makes it easier to quickly weed out the ones with odd intentions. Heck, join a hiking group or an art class. You just need to see men in an environment where they aren’t there to pick up a woman. And in the meantime you can have fun filling your time with some things that are interesting. I hope you’ll keep seeing your counselor. You need ideas about how to stay strong and steady - trusting yourself and your gut. You could take a class on reading body language... that’s really useful - in many situations in life. It’s easier to see what some people will NEVER tell you. Body language rarely lies. Link to post Share on other sites
Naivewomen Posted March 10, 2019 Share Posted March 10, 2019 @Lilkat how r u holding up?? Link to post Share on other sites
Author PhoenixRising8 Posted March 10, 2019 Author Share Posted March 10, 2019 (edited) To be honest, I've not had a great weekend. Not because I'm longing for him, not in the least. I've been very angry and disappointed in myself. I've been reflecting on our last encounter and I am sickened by him. After the call we had and his email, when we met and I tripped him up, he then backtracked to say he only wanted to give me the opportunity for honest answers and he had no designs on reeling me back in! Even in the face of his message, I misunderstood. I'm such a f$&@#*% chump! So much for not having caught him in lies to me ... Edited March 10, 2019 by LilKatKat Link to post Share on other sites
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