DKT3 Posted May 19, 2019 Posted May 19, 2019 I don't disagree entirely however, definitions, like everything else in life, change over time. I guess I was led to believe we had moved beyond that. I really think you are missing the point on the AM hookup. The way you met should have always been a yellow light. Meeting there shows both of your intents, that was to look outside of your primary relationship for something extra. Then you made the same mistake that is echoed throughout this section here, you changed your expectations. It's that whole buying a minivan then down the road believing it will perform like a sports car. So other women here try to use female logic to dissect the Male brain. Because you had evolving expectations it only made sense that he did as well. My Male brain says it's more likely he was forced to lead you to believe his expectations grew and matched yours in order to maintain status quo. I agree with the others that d day was likely. 3
Snipercatt Posted May 19, 2019 Posted May 19, 2019 Because you had evolving expectations it only made sense that he did as well. My Male brain says it's more likely he was forced to lead you to believe his expectations grew and matched yours in order to maintain status quo. I agree with the others that d day was likely. I agree with this. Tom’s last communication with you is the most backbone he’s exhibited. Kit you posted, “I have no clue how you get beyond it with anything but resentment.“ Here’s the deal, Tom is okay with it. His wife is okay with it. Neither is overjoyed and neither is going to change. Considering who you’ve described Tom to be, she’s not losing weight for him, being adventurous, or ambitious, for him, etc. She’ll live just like she pleases and he’ll damn well accept it. 1
Author PhoenixRising8 Posted May 19, 2019 Author Posted May 19, 2019 So other women here try to use female logic to dissect the Male brain. Because you had evolving expectations it only made sense that he did as well. My Male brain says it's more likely he was forced to lead you to believe his expectations grew and matched yours in order to maintain status quo. I agree with the others that d day was likely. it was May 21 last year when HE brought it up, not me. We were 2 months in. The ex hadn't yet moved out. I wasn't going anywhere. I had no expectations. Why bother? What was the point? And if he hadn't intended to, why talk to BS about a separation mid September? I didn't even know he was going to at that point but he did. No prodding from me. We had a picnic lunch and then he went to the office. I went shopping when I got a text saying he was going to have "the talk". I was surprised. No it wasn't just what he told me because a couple of weeks later I heard part of a conversation with his wife and she very clearly said "30 years and you want to leave without trying". I also heard conversations with both kids that he wasn't happy and he couldn't make the marriage work. This is not just what he told me. It's what actually happened. I heard it with my own ears, both sides of the conversation.
Snipercatt Posted May 19, 2019 Posted May 19, 2019 [This is not just what he told me. It's what actually happened. I heard it with my own ears, both sides of the conversation./QUOTE] The point is IT DOESN’T MATTER. It was a “dry run” that didn’t pan out. You weren’t “led to believe” his words, you chose to believe them in the absence of action. Consider a new boundary - believe nothing you hear and only what you see. 3
Author PhoenixRising8 Posted May 19, 2019 Author Posted May 19, 2019 [This is not just what he told me. It's what actually happened. I heard it with my own ears, both sides of the conversation./QUOTE] The point is IT DOESN’T MATTER. It was a “dry run” that didn’t pan out. You weren’t “led to believe” his words, you chose to believe them in the absence of action. Consider a new boundary - believe nothing you hear and only what you see. If he hadn't intended to leave, was only future faking, why bother telling the wife and kids he wanted to. I agree he ultimately back out for whatever reason but I still think his intent had been to do so. Guess he figured it was simple but when he put some thought into it, not so much. Then he acted out like crazy thinking she'd make it easy to throw him out, but she didn't and ultimately it became easier to do nothing. He even admitted that the last week we were together. That was what set me off. Ultimately, she put up with his shenanigans and I wouldn't without challenging him. I became more trouble than she was.
Snipercatt Posted May 19, 2019 Posted May 19, 2019 but I still think his intent had been to do so Seems to me his intent was to rock the boat and hope his wife did the hard work of ending the marriage. He’s so milquetoast he won’t end it, or begin something else. *vomit* 1
Author PhoenixRising8 Posted May 19, 2019 Author Posted May 19, 2019 [quote=Snipercatt;7793501 Seems to me his intent was to rock the boat and hope his wife did the hard work of ending the marriage. /QUOTE] Yup. Pretty sure that was his plan. From first Saturday in October to just before the trip end of January, he spent every Saturday overnight with me, including on her birthday. He also spent numerous weekdays overnight. And no, he couldn't use business trips as an excuse. His work is all local. How she let him get away with it without losing her $h1t is beyond me. Oh yes, he also spent Valentine's Day with me.
Snipercatt Posted May 19, 2019 Posted May 19, 2019 You know, Kitkat, we, sometimes, in life learn to dance certain steps based on the “music” that’s playing. In your case, I think you’ve succumbed to the manipulative behavior of narcissistic behaving individuals. Perhaps the best thing you can learn a boundary about is recognizing it when you experience it and avoiding succumbing to it, emotionally or physically. Meaning you don’t invest of yourself with thoughts, words, or deeds, until proof, to your liking, is evident in behavior and action. Talk is cheap. 1
Snipercatt Posted May 19, 2019 Posted May 19, 2019 [How she let him get away with it without losing her $h1t is beyond me./QUOTE] Because it made little difference to her - or, she decided to wait it out. (Personally? Knowing the Tom you’ve described here? I’d be glad he was elsewhere letting me do as I please.)
Author PhoenixRising8 Posted May 19, 2019 Author Posted May 19, 2019 You are so right. Except I thought he was proving it by making me the priority over her. In the end, I was so wrong. My father was a narcissist, my ex and Tommy boy is likely no better. I've been pondering why I love him, or if I even do. I loved the first Tom insanely. The one he's been the last number of months disgusts me. When I said I didn't miss him, I'm fairly sure that's true. I miss the first one, but he's long gone.
DKT3 Posted May 19, 2019 Posted May 19, 2019 Ask yourself, what does it prove that he stayed overnight? One of the things that amazes me about women in affairs, the seemingly total lose of reasoning. It's like the love for a child were the desire to believe outweighs logic. You met a guy on AM. You believe that he isn't a pro cheater, you hang on his every word. Cheating husband trolling AM and all of a sudden he becomes a beacon of truth in your eyes. Point is, you have absolutely no idea what goes on in his marriage. Not so long ago there was a MW posting who was convinced that the MM wife knew of thier affair, I mean he told her she did, she heard conversations that supported she knew except she didn't know. Like you she didn't understand how he was able to get out so often if she didn't know. The BW then went nuclear on MW, told everyone in their town. Hung flies around town, her children even harassed MW children at school. Still she was saying why would she do this she knew the whole time.....really? 2
Author PhoenixRising8 Posted May 19, 2019 Author Posted May 19, 2019 [How she let him get away with it without losing her $h1t is beyond me./QUOTE] Because it made little difference to her - or, she decided to wait it out. (Personally? Knowing the Tom you’ve described here? I’d be glad he was elsewhere letting me do as I please.) Well if he wants to stay with someone who doesn't care, that's his choice. And yes, he can stay exactly where he is. It's safer. For both of us. He knows I wouldn't have let him do to me what he did to her. And if he behaved that way with the mother of his children, I have no doubt he would have done the same with me when the going got tough.
Snipercatt Posted May 19, 2019 Posted May 19, 2019 [Except I thought he was proving it by making me the priority over her/I] Next time, be impressed by a man that prioritizes you over his own selfish desires versus someone else.
Author PhoenixRising8 Posted May 19, 2019 Author Posted May 19, 2019 Ask yourself, what does it prove that he stayed overnight? One of the things that amazes me about women in affairs, the seemingly total lose of reasoning. It's like the love for a child were the desire to believe outweighs logic. You met a guy on AM. You believe that he isn't a pro cheater, you hang on his every word. Cheating husband trolling AM and all of a sudden he becomes a beacon of truth in your eyes. Point is, you have absolutely no idea what goes on in his marriage. Not so long ago there was a MW posting who was convinced that the MM wife knew of thier affair, I mean he told her she did, she heard conversations that supported she knew except she didn't know. Like you she didn't understand how he was able to get out so often if she didn't know. The BW then went nuclear on MW, told everyone in their town. Hung flies around town, her children even harassed MW children at school. Still she was saying why would she do this she knew the whole time.....really? I'm pretty sure he's a first timer. There are lots of reasons I say that, not the least of which is he was less than discreet. Lots of time with me, little at home, unlike before. He never had reason for overnights and suddenly every Saturday night he stays out until the next afternoon? Come on! You'd have to be the stupidest person on earth not to know. A friend of hers also saw us at a restaurant on Saturday night. Wouldn't be surprised if she told her. She asked him numerous times and he denied it. If she didn't suspect why ask? Why tell him her mother forgave her father for cheating? As for your point about him being the beacon of truth, not - no argument there. The blinders were on big time.
Snipercatt Posted May 19, 2019 Posted May 19, 2019 e knows I wouldn't have let him do to me what he did to her Nope, not rational. You engaged in a relationship while he was married and you endured several failed iterations of “his protestations of unhappiness and exclamations of leaving” only to continue seeing him. He doesn’t “know” you won’t let him mistreat you unless you NEVER let it happen, again. 1
DKT3 Posted May 19, 2019 Posted May 19, 2019 I don't really like to share my story anymore, its already here. But I will share this. During my wifes affair a really good friend of mine saw her with the guy. After we divorced he came forward as did a few other people. When I questioned him about not telling before he simply said, I wanted to, but its was really none of my business and I could have been wrong about what I was actually seeing.
Author PhoenixRising8 Posted May 19, 2019 Author Posted May 19, 2019 e knows I wouldn't have let him do to me what he did to her Nope, not rational. You engaged in a relationship while he was married and you endured several failed iterations of “his protestations of unhappiness and exclamations of leaving” only to continue seeing him. He doesn’t “know” you won’t let him mistreat you unless you NEVER let it happen, again. There is no way I would have let him spend EVERY SATURDAY NIGHT out for months! There's no excuse for that but one. Furthermore, when we got back together in March, it was a hands off policy. I spent many hours telling him how cruel he was being to her. I told him he should fish or cut bait with one of us. It was unfair to both of us. That's why I say I became more trouble than I was worth. They didn't talk beyond the superficial. I forced the issue. Honestly, I have no clue why he came back after the split end of February. I believed he came back because he realized where he really wanted to be, now I have no clue. There was no point. For 2 months he vowed he was leaving. No wishy washiness. He had the names of people he would contact to find an apartment. He had a list of things he needed to do to get the house ready. So I gave him a chance. But days went by and not much was getting done so I pushed. He finally cracked and admitted he was having doubts again about whether he would have what it takes to follow through. It went downhill quickly from there. So yes, he knows I won't sit passively by. I will push and I guess he neither likes that nor is accustomed to it.
Snipercatt Posted May 19, 2019 Posted May 19, 2019 I believed he came back because he realized where he really wanted to be, Never try to figure out someone else’s mind, you’ll be wrong.
Author PhoenixRising8 Posted May 19, 2019 Author Posted May 19, 2019 I believed he came back because he realized where he really wanted to be, Never try to figure out someone else’s mind, you’ll be wrong. I know right? But truly, what was the point? The ground rules were hands off so it isn't even that he came back for the sex. It makes no sense.
Snipercatt Posted May 19, 2019 Posted May 19, 2019 Tom’s reasons, Tom’s desires, Tom’s needs, Tom’s priorities . . . are all forefront in this thread. I’ll rejoice when you articulate and fiercely defend your own desires, needs and priorities over Tom, your ex, or any potential partner. (I don’t mean that you do it here, but in your own mind, and life.)
Author PhoenixRising8 Posted May 19, 2019 Author Posted May 19, 2019 (edited) Tom’s reasons, Tom’s desires, Tom’s needs, Tom’s priorities . . . are all forefront in this thread. I’ll rejoice when you articulate and fiercely defend your own desires, needs and priorities over Tom, your ex, or any potential partner. (I don’t mean that you do it here, but in your own mind, and life.) Well there you go. You just summed up my life. Others needs and wants have always taken priority over my own. The one time I was selfish and went after my own, I made the biggest mistake of my life. Always the pleaser, never the pleased. And I only question why he came back because there wasn't anything in it for him, if sex was all he was after. I never thought there was a possibility of another motivation other than he wanted to be with me. Obviously I was grossly mistaken. Edited May 19, 2019 by LilKatKat
Snipercatt Posted May 19, 2019 Posted May 19, 2019 I only question why he came back because there wasn't anything in it for him There you go, trying to figure out someone else’s mind. But, okay, I’ll play along: He doesn’t want to be the bad guy, by ending it with you. He likes the entertainment and distraction. He hopes for sex, in the future. He likes surreptitiously getting back at his wife. Regardless, it is about him, not about you, not about his wife. 1
Snipercatt Posted May 19, 2019 Posted May 19, 2019 Others needs and wants have always taken priority over my own. I just read this somewhere else and thought of you: “ It is a hard pill to swallow when you realize how many people benefitted from your lack of self love and boundaries. When you set a new standard of boundaries you’ll be surprised who will disappear from your life.”
Author PhoenixRising8 Posted May 19, 2019 Author Posted May 19, 2019 Yup many benefitted from me and still disappeared in the end. Go figure!
Author PhoenixRising8 Posted May 20, 2019 Author Posted May 20, 2019 (edited) Update on my fabulous love story: Today is their anniversary. The happy couple went out for dinner and being the prolific poster she is she posted about it complete with pictures of hugs and kisses. If we were talking he would have said "what was I supposed to do? The kids wanted pictures". It's what he said about the one Hawaii picture. He spent a year telling me he doesn't love her, has no physical attraction to her and wants to leave. Initially this may have been at least somewhat true. But the man in the pictures was not awkward, unhappy or uncomfortable. He looked very relaxed and happy. Good for him. He came back because he wanted both. Simple as that. I pushed, he finally caved and admitted he MAY not do it. He was never going to. He was only prolonging his fun. That's definitely the case the last 2 months. I served my purpose. She finally showed him she cared and wanted him. I guess I helped. I played with fire and got burned. He could be the last man on earth and I would run in the other direction. For someone so smart, I was the stupidest woman around for buying his crap. Lesson learned. God I'm disgusted by him and disgusted with myself!!! Yeah I know I shouldn't have looked but I wanted that last bit of proof that this was the right thing to do and I got it. Edited May 20, 2019 by LilKatKat
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