Author PhoenixRising8 Posted November 4, 2018 Author Share Posted November 4, 2018 OK but it is all pretty passive aggressive stuff and that isn't usually a good trait. He's like the naughty school boy staying out late to make his mother upset. Too weak to tell her to her face that he will be late home. At least schoolboys have the excuse of being very young. I guess, by behaving badly, he wants her to pull the plug on the marriage... I know you hate her and think she deserves all she is getting, but there are two sides to every story. He is not exactly covering himself in glory here, by these passive aggressive, weak and nasty, hurtful actions, is he? I don't hate her but I do feel sorry for her because by all accounts she had a good husband for 28 years and obviously didn't value that by her actions, as even their close friends acknowledged. He is being passive aggressive, which is not unusual for conflict avoidant types. Is there a better way to handle this on his part? Yes, absolutely. I guess I've seen desperate people do things that are out of character. Maybe that's how I've interpreted his behaviour. Yes, there are two sides to every story. His part in all of this is he kept quiet when he should have spoken up. And then he removed himself physically by spending more time on physical activity, work and left the bedroom, all classic signs of a failing marriage. Both should have made an effort years ago but it appears there isn't much to salvage any longer. He should have spoken up; she should have pressed for answers. There was talk of marriage counselling 7 weeks ago but neither pursued that option. Doesn't appear either has any real interest in putting in the work. Link to post Share on other sites
Author PhoenixRising8 Posted November 4, 2018 Author Share Posted November 4, 2018 You keep saying your affair is no-one's business but his, you've said it about his friends and his children, as if they'll never find out. What do you think will happen if he does leave and move in with you? Do you honestly think there'll be no repercussions or consequences? It's almost like you have blinkers on that if you get to this point then that'll be the end of it. It won't, you may actually be entering the most stressful part of the relationship yet! I am aware of the risks but we've agreed if we get to that point we will do what needs to be done to keep it on the down low for a period of time. It may not work but we won't know unless we try. Problem is there's no way out at this point without people getting hurt. If I had it to do all over again, I would have ended my marriage before getting involved with someone and that someone would not be married or recently separated. Link to post Share on other sites
Amethyst68 Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 How do you keep something like this on the downlow from his children? If he moves out and they're on good terms they'll be wanting to help him establish himself first of all and then visit to make sure he's ok. Or is he planning to disappear in the night? You might be able to keep it quiet from friends got a while but his kids, I doubt it. A friend of mine did this, it failed spectacularly. Although my friend did marry her man the relationship with his children was ruined, he admits he handled things in the wrong way but it's too late now. Link to post Share on other sites
BTDT2012 Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 I suspect he doesn't want it to get back to her. The reason he wants out of the marriage isn't me. The state of their marriage resulted in me. I don't think his wife will have many pleasantries today as he left yesterday at 6:30 and didn't return until 2:30 this afternoon. Looks like by his actions he's actually trying to bring things to a head. Seems to me he is passive aggressive and conflict avoidant. He's trying to provoke her, and make things her fault. Do you live in a fault state? 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Author PhoenixRising8 Posted November 5, 2018 Author Share Posted November 5, 2018 Seems to me he is passive aggressive and conflict avoidant. He's trying to provoke her, and make things her fault. Do you live in a fault state? We have both fault and no fault. Fault filings are for either adultery or mental cruelty and there is no waiting period however due to the cost and proceedings involved, very few opt for fault. No fault is much easier and cheaper. Link to post Share on other sites
Amethyst68 Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 Forgive me if I'm wrong (I've not read back through the thread) but did you not say it's financially better for him if she files? Is that what he's trying to achieve with this passive aggressive nonsense? At the moment, as an outsider with no investment in their relationship I'd say he's doing pretty well on the mental cruelty aspect! 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Starswillshine Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 Oh Lord... Of course, the wife is just a lazy woman who sits on her a$$ and does nothing but posts stupid Facebook posts. It must be nice to have a front row seat in their home. Clueless OW. You have some actions... what you do not see is the actions being done behind your back. Let me clue you into something... she didnt have a perfect husband who she took advantage of... he is a cheater!!!! Link to post Share on other sites
FITT5559 Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 Are you a SOW or MOW? Link to post Share on other sites
Author PhoenixRising8 Posted November 5, 2018 Author Share Posted November 5, 2018 Oh Lord... Of course, the wife is just a lazy woman who sits on her a$$ and does nothing but posts stupid Facebook posts. It must be nice to have a front row seat in their home. Clueless OW. You have some actions... what you do not see is the actions being done behind your back. Let me clue you into something... she didnt have a perfect husband who she took advantage of... he is a cheater!!!! I've seen the state of her house and her fb feed so I'm not as clueless as you think, but thanks for the caution. And no, she doesn't have a perfect spouse now ... she had one that was pretty close 7 months ago, as did my own BS who is the first to admit it now. To bad we sometimes only figure out what we had when we no longer have it. Link to post Share on other sites
Author PhoenixRising8 Posted November 5, 2018 Author Share Posted November 5, 2018 Are you a SOW or MOW? I was married when the affair started. I am now happily separated from the narcissist I had the misfortune of marrying. Link to post Share on other sites
Author PhoenixRising8 Posted November 5, 2018 Author Share Posted November 5, 2018 Forgive me if I'm wrong (I've not read back through the thread) but did you not say it's financially better for him if she files? Is that what he's trying to achieve with this passive aggressive nonsense? At the moment, as an outsider with no investment in their relationship I'd say he's doing pretty well on the mental cruelty aspect! No I didn't say he's better off if she files. I said he's better off financially if he does in fact separate and split the assets as he will extricate himself from some debt and new housing and support are not an issue. Link to post Share on other sites
elaine567 Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 No I didn't say he's better off if she files. I said he's better off financially if he does in fact separate and split the assets as he will extricate himself from some debt and new housing and support are not an issue. But to do that he has to sell the house, and his wife and both kids will have to move out of the family home, as she cannot afford to pay him off. He will not have a mortgage and can pay off his debts with the equity, but he will then be effectively your lodger. (I hope you are not thinking of putting him on your mortgage or on the title deeds...) I can see why he is stalling, he will be starting almost from scratch and will be relying on you to provide a roof over his head. As soon as he makes his kids homeless, and moves in with you, he will have a tough job persuading them he is the good guy here. If this relationship with you turns sour, which it very well might do (it is a new relationship and both of you have a load of baggage), he will be in no man's land. Link to post Share on other sites
brigit87 Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 But to do that he has to sell the house, and his wife and both kids will have to move out of the family home, as she cannot afford to pay him off. He will not have a mortgage and can pay off his debts with the equity, but he will then be effectively your lodger. (I hope you are not thinking of putting him on your mortgage or on the title deeds...) I can see why he is stalling, he will be starting almost from scratch and will be relying on you to provide a roof over his head. As soon as he makes his kids homeless, and moves in with you, he will have a tough job persuading them he is the good guy here. If this relationship with you turns sour, which it very well might do (it is a new relationship and both of you have a load of baggage), he will be in no man's land. Sounds horrible. This dude make a very bad mess and his kids are going to pay for it. Very sad. Link to post Share on other sites
BaileyB Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 And no, she doesn't have a perfect spouse now ... she had one that was pretty close 7 months ago, as did my own BS who is the first to admit it now. To bad we sometimes only figure out what we had when we no longer have it. Well then, the two of you will deserve each other. Two "perfect" partners, both of whom have lied, cheated, and are now hoping to form an "imperfect" union. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author PhoenixRising8 Posted November 5, 2018 Author Share Posted November 5, 2018 So many assumptions... They have a larger house than they need so she can easily afford to downsize. She can’t even keep the house clean and tidy much less maintain a house that size. The kids are adults in their mid to late 20s so it’s not like they won’t be out on their own sooner rather than later. Maybe he should just be miserable the rest of his life and make them miserable as well... And no, I’m not stupid enough to put him on my title. We shall see what happens this week. She is insistent on going away for the weekend for his birthday. He has said no but she keeps bringing it up, even after what happened on her birthday a couple of weeks ago. He has told me he plans to tell her this week in no uncertain terms that he doesn’t wish to continue the marriage. Link to post Share on other sites
Author PhoenixRising8 Posted November 5, 2018 Author Share Posted November 5, 2018 Well then, the two of you will deserve each other. Two "perfect" partners, both of whom have lied, cheated, and are now hoping to form an "imperfect" union. We were both good to our spouses for a very long time. Neither of us are liars by nature which just makes this even more stressful. But thanks for the understanding. An affair wasn’t the answer but that’s hindsight isn’t it? Yes we lied and cheated and we are now paying the price. It’s not something either of us are going to repeat. Once a cheater always a cheater paints broad strokes over all cheaters. Not everyone who cheats repeats their mistakes. Something to think about. Link to post Share on other sites
BaileyB Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 We were both good to our spouses for a very long time. Neither of us are liars by nature which just makes this even more stressful. But thanks for the understanding. An affair wasn’t the answer but that’s hindsight isn’t it? Yes we lied and cheated and we are now paying the price. It’s not something either of us are going to repeat. Once a cheater always a cheater paints broad strokes over all cheaters. Not everyone who cheats repeats their mistakes. Something to think about. Sure. I hear you. This reminds me of a friend, who's father had an affair and left her mother for another woman. My friend was an adult, and she cut her father out of her life after the affair. And yet, she had an affair and ended her marriage many years later. She felt such guilt, was so destraught by her actions, that she was actually suicidal. But, she was honest with her husband and children, she took responsibility for her decision, and ended her marriage. It was absolutely awful for many years... and it is still awful at times. It has absolutely changed her relationship with her husband, her children, friends, and family. But, she is still together with her AP and they seem to be happy. Will it work out for you too? Only time will tell. It's just so sad - to see someone make a decision when they know exactly the hurt it will cause others. And then, the need to spin the situation in an attempt to justify the decision and make it more acceptable, both to themselves and others. Link to post Share on other sites
elaine567 Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 We were both good to our spouses for a very long time. Neither of us are liars by nature which just makes this even more stressful. But thanks for the understanding. An affair wasn’t the answer but that’s hindsight isn’t it? Yes we lied and cheated and we are now paying the price. It’s not something either of us are going to repeat. Once a cheater always a cheater paints broad strokes over all cheaters. Not everyone who cheats repeats their mistakes. Something to think about. Yes, you can speak for yourself, but you cannot speak for him. This is a married guy you met 7 months ago on a dating app, who knows what he has been really up to? This was a guy totally up for having a affair with you. You are actually projecting your thoughts and feelings onto him, and you have come to the conclusion that he and you are exactly the same, but are you? Time will tell. Link to post Share on other sites
Artdeco Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 (edited) But to do that he has to sell the house, and his wife and both kids will have to move out of the family home, as she cannot afford to pay him off. He will not have a mortgage and can pay off his debts with the equity, but he will then be effectively your lodger. (I hope you are not thinking of putting him on your mortgage or on the title deeds...) I can see why he is stalling, he will be starting almost from scratch and will be relying on you to provide a roof over his head. As soon as he makes his kids homeless, and moves in with you, he will have a tough job persuading them he is the good guy here. If this relationship with you turns sour, which it very well might do (it is a new relationship and both of you have a load of baggage), he will be in no man's land. Homeless children? Jesus. Listen, he will either divorce, or he won’t. No reason to beat a dead horse. We all know that D is hard, for most people anyways. If he does D, he won’t be the first; he won’t even be the first to divorce after a very long-term M, and after having met somebody new that he thinks is a better match. Jesus, it happens every day, and no, it’s not always the WS’s “fault”, or anybody’s fault for that matter. We can paint worst case scenarios all we want, but it’s a fact that around 50% of Ms end in divorce, and people either stay single or end up with somebody else post-D. Do you really think that those who happily remarry or get into another serious R that lasts a lifetime have NOT known their next partner already while they were still M? And that only those who divorce for “all the right reasons” (whatever those are, provided they even exist in your world; or do you believe in staying M no matter what?) will not struggle financially or otherwise? D is hard for everyone, it needs to be thought through properly. Nobody I personally know has taken D lightly. Not even those sans kids, or those who used to fight non-stop. It is usually a back-and-forth struggle that takes a long time, even if both spouses are on the same page. Yes, even those who have amicably decided to end their M, after having done and tried everything (MC, self help books, IC, and whatnot), and have come to the conclusion together that their M is dead, have struggled with the decision. So I don’t think it’s an indicator of reluctance that OPs BF didn’t move out of his home the weekend after he met OP. That’s just unrealistic and not how things work. And I’m sure you know that. It’s been less than a year for them! What would people say if he had moved out after a few months? Wouldn’t you then question why he has moved out that quickly? New relationships after getting divorced are hard. People are older. People have more experience, people have different expectations, they are set in their ways, but it’s got nothing to do with how people met. It has everything to do with how people have developed over time and the fact that they’re more mature. If two single people in their 50s meet online, they’ll go through the exact same struggle. It’s just not easy to find compatibility in that age group. Much different than dating in college etc. It’s an age-thing. It’s about life experience and maturity. TBH, I believe OP will actually have more of a success rate than two long-term singles meeting online or at a bar or wherever. She appears like someone who knows what she wants and what she doesn’t want. Her MM seems to know as well. Just bc he’s not lined up all his ducks yet doesn’t mean he is “stringing her along”, and enjoys “two women fawning upon him”, and [enter more stereotypes here], because I really don’t see that when OP describes him as a person, and his behavior towards her. Do such (“bad”) MM exist? Probably. However, every situation is different, and it helps nobody if we respond to different questions/problems/scenarios by throwing out the same old stereotypical answers. I would like to repeat: every situation is different, but I believe wholeheartedly that almost every D is hard, financially and emotionally, and if it’s not - that’s the exception. I (we all) would be shocked if OP’s MM had acted too hastily .... It would make him look like an immature prick who doesn’t plan ahead, and who decides too spontaneously, someone who’s not dependable and immature with rose-colored glasses on. Not a good choice for a partner. Edited November 5, 2018 by Artdeco 1 Link to post Share on other sites
overtherainbow1 Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 You're specifically including the night he told her he wanted a separation as one of your red flags of him being a horrible person. In your estimation, is separation and divorce always mental cruelty? Separation is going to involve abandoning your spouse and having plans on what would have been their birthday/anniversary/otherholidays. A fair point, but OP's AP is not separated. And separation is really a joke anyways. It's for people who can't decide if they want to be married or not but want to absolve themselves of their commitments while still having the benefits or marriage. Link to post Share on other sites
overtherainbow1 Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 We were both good to our spouses for a very long time. Neither of us are liars by nature which just makes this even more stressful. But thanks for the understanding. An affair wasn’t the answer but that’s hindsight isn’t it? Yes we lied and cheated and we are now paying the price. It’s not something either of us are going to repeat. Once a cheater always a cheater paints broad strokes over all cheaters. Not everyone who cheats repeats their mistakes. Something to think about. Past behavior is the best predictor of future actions. He cheated with you, but he won't cheat on you? I think you believe that b/c you want to believe that. Link to post Share on other sites
Amethyst68 Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 So how many times have you been in her house to personally judge her housekeeping skills? Look I know nothing we say is going to change your mind that he's the good guy, this is a man who's got extremely comfortable lying to his wife and family in a short period of time. I would recommend keeping the NC plan you had formed but somehow I don't think you will, I suspect he will need you to support him though his birthday and you'll be there. Link to post Share on other sites
Artdeco Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 A fair point, but OP's AP is not separated. And separation is really a joke anyways. It's for people who can't decide if they want to be married or not but want to absolve themselves of their commitments while still having the benefits or marriage. In most cases separation precedes the actual D. Few people live together while divorce is in progress. Link to post Share on other sites
overtherainbow1 Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 I don't hate her but I do feel sorry for her because by all accounts she had a good husband for 28 years and obviously didn't value that by her actions, as even their close friends acknowledged. He is being passive aggressive, which is not unusual for conflict avoidant types. Is there a better way to handle this on his part? Yes, absolutely. I guess I've seen desperate people do things that are out of character. Maybe that's how I've interpreted his behaviour. Yes, there are two sides to every story. His part in all of this is he kept quiet when he should have spoken up. And then he removed himself physically by spending more time on physical activity, work and left the bedroom, all classic signs of a failing marriage. Both should have made an effort years ago but it appears there isn't much to salvage any longer. He should have spoken up; she should have pressed for answers. There was talk of marriage counselling 7 weeks ago but neither pursued that option. Doesn't appear either has any real interest in putting in the work. You say "even their close friends say....(insert quote here)". Well the wayward spouse always has a story similar to this. Do you think you are getting the whole story? Why would your AP tell you the good parts of his marriage? Does that seem manipulative? Is he open and looking for the god's honest truth, or just looking for someone to tell him he's fine? Link to post Share on other sites
Starswillshine Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 (edited) I went back to re-read OP. So you both were in such horrible marriages. And instead of divorcing, you both chose to SEEK out an affair. Not a case of knowing someone and falling in love at a vulnerable time. You both actively were online dating. And now... instead of fixing your own personal crap.... you are choosing to move in together after he actually decides to separate from his wife? [] I suggest you get some counseling to fix your own issues. Edited November 5, 2018 by a LoveShack.org Moderator Topical content 2 Link to post Share on other sites
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