elaine567 Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 There are very few men with male model looks, and there's even fewer men out there in the world who are rich. And the rich men usually cheat on their wives. Not that many women married to those guys mind, because of the lifestyle provided. I've worked for rich men and they're always bragging about the many 20 year old hot girls they slept with, either by visiting escorts, or by having their secretaries thinking that they're going to be wife #2 soon. Bottom line is - for most women marriage is a downgrade on their quality of living by a LOT, and marriage is a massive increase in the life quality of men. Why are you are concentrating on male models and rich men, that is not real life... that is not the life that most people lead. Most woman do not want to marry a male model or a mega rich man as the "problems" you highlight are not what most sensible woman want to deal with. Narcissists and sociopaths... They are not what most woman would classify as great men. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
alphamale Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 Bottom line is - for most women marriage is a downgrade on their quality of living by a LOT, and marriage is a massive increase in the life quality of men. I wouldn't agree with that, married women have more security and stability and kids while married men outlive their single brothers by 4 or 5 years on average. Link to post Share on other sites
sabaton Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 Say what you will. and while I don't disagree with all of what you are saying, as someone that's been around for a while, there are a ton more miserable people now than there was thenyeah? How come? My mother's first husband was a bum. She married him when she turned 18 because my mother, who has a heart made of butter, made a promise to the guy's dying father(cancer) that she would marry his son. But he was a terrible husband. He didn't work, he didn't help around the house, and it was my mother who had to work and support him and make the mortgage payments, and take care of everything. You think the judge or anyone, especially men would have cared that this guy was a parasite, who wasn't even good in bed and was sex-crazed and demanded sex 24/7? His idea of foreplay was sticking it in, and the dude according to my mother had an 9 incher. Dude even took some long years to give her a divorce. Hell, the guy only gave my mother a divorce when he came back from South America and saw that my mother was heavily pregnant and felt his honor being destroyed. Oh, and did I mention that when he was in South America he found himself a woman, had children, and only wanted a divorce from my mother because the other woman insisted on getting married to him? Oh yes, dating back then sure was lovely. That part about men being allowed to do everything and suffer no consequences is really a turn on for women. , when it comes to relations between men and women...And add to the fact that during that time, people had basically nothing, unlike now, where people are flush with all the accoutrements of life...How exactly were things better back then when it comes to relationships between men and women? haha, no. The entirety of the world is not comprised of America's Middle-Class. The middle-class over here are effectively broke, and so is the middle-class of many European Countries, with people complaining about the price of the eletricity, water, the rising price of rents, mortgages, the down payments for houses, school, college, public transportation. Most people are working hard just to survive, they aren't here getting into debt to pay an iphone X. And that's Europe. The Middle-Eastern is poor as hell, with the exception of a few very lucky families, and in any case, women of the Islamic faith have no rights and no freedoms and no liberties. They're traded by cattle by their fathers to the highest bidder/kid who belongs to a family with good connections. I dunno...I think people put more thought into who they settled with back then...Nah. People had less options back then and so they stayed with what was around them. The reason why we celebrate marriages that have lasted 50 years or more is because that is not normal at all. Lifelong monogamy to just one partner is not natural to the human species. Serial monogamy, where the woman stays with the guy a few years, usually until the child can walk and talk and ''take care'' of itself, yeah. But 20 years? 30? 50? Unlike today, where people jump around indecisively, like a little kid in a toy store.. Often back in those days, they were introduced from a family member or close friend, so there was a lot in common with family values, mores, etc...Haha, it's still like that in most of the world, and women are terribly unhappy with that situation. But what can they do. It's a man's world. It's always been and it will always be like that. And as long as men are happy with the system(and why wouldn't they? Someone pretty and young who is forced to have sex with them? As if many guys wouldn't do that if they could get away with it) things will never change, they will never reach a balance between the sexes. Family values? What does that even mean, man? Like, a girl wants to have casual sex, or she wants to have sex with girls, or she doesn't want to get married, or she doesn't want to have kids - family values are more important than her personal sense of happiness? There may be more options and maybe people are getting laid more now, but it's definitely NOT better now than it was then...Not that it was ever perfect..No, it's a lot easier for men to get laid these days than it was 50 years ago. There were always prostitutes, but those girls weren't clean, and what's the point of having ''sex'' with someone who isn't attracted to the guy. Things are a lot better these days because if you don't want a relationship you don't have to get it to get laid. If you want children but you don't want to get married you can get a surrogate mother. If the husband is a bum, she can no fault divorce him,rapidly, and not wait years and then have the judge go through valid reasons for the girl to divorce her husband, and people are free to choose the men and the women that they want, and that they are attracted to them, instead of choosing from the men their parents feel are eligible($$$) Link to post Share on other sites
sabaton Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 Why are you are concentrating on male models and rich men, that is not real life... that is not the life that most people lead. Yes, usually people settle with someone who wants to marry them and ain't half bad, because of the urge to have children and to raise them. Most woman do not want to marry a male model or a mega rich man as the "problems" you highlight are not what most sensible woman want to deal with. Narcissists and sociopaths... Nah. They want to marry those men. They simply do not want to deal with all of the problems that come with married those men. That's how I feel I managed to date and hook-up with fashion catwalk models. I'm not at the same level of perfection that those men are, but I reckon that I felt that I was a safe bet because I didn't have the same narcissism those men many times have, and obviously I've never had hordes of women throwing themselves at me like those guys have. But a marriage where the woman isn't 100% sexually crazy about the guy ain't a real marriage to me. If I ain't a woman's Brad Pitt then what's the point. They are not what most woman would classify as great men.Nah, I'm sure these men are what most young women with high sex drives would classify as great men, but gettin burned and wanting emotional security is what leads them to marry men that they aren't really all that attracted to. Link to post Share on other sites
Chilli Posted November 2, 2018 Share Posted November 2, 2018 (edited) There are very few men with male model looks, and there's even fewer men out there in the world who are rich. And the rich men usually cheat on their wives. Not that many women married to those guys mind, because of the lifestyle provided. I've worked for rich men and they're always bragging about the many 20 year old hot girls they slept with, either by visiting escorts, or by having their secretaries thinking that they're going to be wife #2 soon. Bottom line is - for most women marriage is a downgrade on their quality of living by a LOT, and marriage is a massive increase in the life quality of men. This last bit here , what a load of shyt. Your too young to know or see the works just yet tapping away there , known plenty of still single women in their 40s 50s even 60s through friends or whatever and believe me, they're still working can't stop and they're lonely and lifes been bloody tough for them. But known and met many a married family women and usually , they have a damn nice life if it's a good marriage , and a family and their home and a hubby to talk to and live life with. And l'd mostly say the same for a happily married man. But the bs saying it's an increase for men only, ahh, how would that be exactly is what l always say? What just because if he's lucky she might cook for him, well if she's lucky he might slave away 50yrs going to work for her. No more women , loses complete control of every penny he earns , can't do what he wants, can't buy what he wants can't go where he wants when he wants and if he marries the wrong woman he's in for a life of misery and losing pretty well everything when they divorce because of that and on and on it goes. And she'll get the house and a pretty alimony for years to come , a free pension , the car, even if she was the one that screwed round and destroyed the marriage. So you know ,they write all this bs and so called stats . but there's a lot more to most things than just what they stat about and two sides to every story, sometimes 10 sides. and ah yeah , l was married for 20yrs so l do have a little idea of what l'm talking about Edited November 2, 2018 by Chilli 2 Link to post Share on other sites
preraph Posted November 2, 2018 Share Posted November 2, 2018 My mom grew up in literally the middle of nowhere (and it's still nowhere to this day) out in the country on a farm. Her mom and dad had 13 children. No electricity, no running water, no plumbing. My dad used to comment that all the sisters from this family had been married more than once and make something out of it, so I asked my mom about it. The women married anyone they could scrape up out in the middle of nowhere to get them OUT of there. And then they divorced them a few years later and eventually remarried. No women were much working until WWII, when some were recruited as nurse-types or in factories in the absence of men. But things went back to the way they were once the men returned and by the 1950s, of course, you were back to the American stereotypical household where the man supports the household while the woman pops out babies and cleans house. It wasn't until birth control in the 1960s that women began going to work in earnest and not marrying because they had to have someone to support them and, well, enjoying sex with men they wanted to have it with and having more choice in the matter. It is a huge thing for women. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
sabaton Posted November 3, 2018 Share Posted November 3, 2018 This last bit here , what a load of shyt. Your too young to know or see the works just yet tapping away there , How does my youth keep me from seeing how unhappy many if not most women are in their marriages? Growing up, hanging out with my friends at their parents houses, I keep hearing their parents having an argument. He's always late, always working. He doesn't have a job. He's always drinking. He's out too much with is friends neglecting and ignoring his family. He's cheating with a woman 20 years younger than him. He never wants to do any of the house chores, leaving the woman to do everything. Child-rearing? Right. At 18 I was introduced to a different culture. Same thing. Many men still behave the same, it's almost as if most guys stop trying, stop caring, stop wooing and impressing the girl as soon as they get married, put a baby in her belly and now they feel what's the point of working on keeping her interest, her love, her sexual desire for him now that he ''owns'' her? I have a feeling that getting a divorce is a lot easier in this culture, because at a 70% divorce rate for first marriages, 80% divorce rate for second marriages and 90% divorce rate for third marriages, and all of these three type of divorces happning a few years(4-7) after the wedding kinda suggests to me that there's huge numbers of men who don't really worry or care about being good lifelong partners to women. Maybe they get bored living with someone everyday. The average age for a Spaniard/Portuguese/Italian/Greek man to leave his parents house to live on his own is... 29. A guy leaving his mother care that late in life is probably too accostumed to being pampered and taken care of by his momma, and he's going to want a woman as his wife who acts and reminds him of his mother. What woman wants that? Also, what ain't missing in the world are men who want submissive, weak women who depend on them to survive. A couple of years ago I was reading on the newspapers how nearly half of the weddings that had happened to the local men had been with Brazilian women. I suspect there were other women from Countries like Pakistan, India, Angola, and such and such, being imported by men because they want someone young and pretty and thin that has no choice in saying no to a man she isn't sexually attracted to but whom she needs to survive. known plenty of still single women in their 40s 50s even 60s through friends or whatever and believe me, they're still working can't stop and they're lonely and lifes been bloody tough for them. Yeah, and? I know a lot of single women in their late teens and early 20s and late 20s who feel lonely and are going through problems in their lives. Dating is hard for everyone, no matter how easy people know how easy it is for young women to attract men for sex. Now a loving, enjoyable, good relationship? Lol even if the woman is hot, good luck with that, her romantic life ain't gonna be peachy. But known and met many a married family women and usually , they have a damn nice life if it's a good marriage , and a family and their home and a hubby to talk to and live life with. Most women aren't married to men of means, on a global scale, not just cushy upper-class white Americans populate this world. The majority of the women who are alive in this day and time are not having a damn nice good life with access to everything that someone could ask for. And l'd mostly say the same for a happily married man. But the bs saying it's an increase for men only, ahh, how would that be exactly is what l always say Men- In the United States today, it’s not difficult to see why men would want to marry women. As Gilbert points out, “Married men live longer than single men; . . . married men accumulate more wealth than single men; married men are far less likely to die a violent death than single men; married men report themselves to be much happier than single men; and married men suffer less from alcoholism, drug addiction, and depression than do single men.” Women- We marry most often because we are in love and we think it will make us happy. Yet married women are more likely to suffer from depression than single women are. According to Gilbert, married women are not as successful in their careers as single women. Married women are arguably less healthy than single women. Married women, until recently, were more likely to die a violent death than single women—usually, at the hands of their own husbands. Sociologists, Gilbert claims, call this phenomenon “the ‘Marriage Benefit Imbalance’—a tidy name for an almost freakishly doleful conclusion: that women generally lose in the exchange of marriage vows, while men win big.” Marrying for money hasn’t exactly gone out of fashion, but generally we are not engaging in strategic dynastic mergers. And in contemporary America we no longer need to get married to produce additional farmhands. So what’s the point? https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2010/01/11/hitched What just because if he's lucky she might cook for him, well if she's lucky he might slave away 50yrs going to work for her. You think stay-at-home mothers aren't working just as hard if not harder than their husbands are at their jobs? Raising children is a job. Managing a household is a job. My mother gave birth to 6 children, and she took care of all of them on her own, without housekeepers or outside help. We didn't even have a washing machine back then. She would have to wash clothes using a water tank. Cleaning and washing and bathing and feeding and changing diapers and making sure everyone was healthy and happy. Giving to a man's child is already an immense job. Remember that for most of Mankind's existence child-birth was -and still is in many parts of the world - an extremely dangerous life-changing moment that was responsible for the premature death of many, many women. And still to this day, a woman becomes even more vulnerable than she usually is by being pregnant. She makes herself open to a host of helath problems and conditions that can easily come with being pregnant and giving birth. Having a child is a man's greatest joy in life. Being given a child by a woman, to have someone be born with your own flesh and blood inside of them is the greatest honor a man can ever achieve, with millions, billions of men who came before us never having being given that chance. That alone, and so much more, makes a man far more blessed to be with a woman, than it does for a woman to be with a man. No more women , The vast majority of the men in the western nations are obese. If not that, they're either plain-looking, ugly, bald, lack developed social skills, they lack charm and charisma, they lack a sense of humor, and they have average-sized penis, many are of average height,which tbh ain't that much if the guy ain't Dutch, or they're short. they have weak jawlines and small chins. What exactly are men giving up when they get married? Most men have a much higher chance of getting steady, regular sex by getting married than the chance they have of getting sex, when they're single or looking for a girlfriend. Brad Pitt gives upon(in theory at least) millions and millions of women when he decides to get married to one woman. What does the average man gives up on exactly? Going onto tinder, getting mad that the girls looking for casual sex can easily find a guy who is much hotter than him and then complaining about how ''women only want super hot guys?'' Women on the other hand give up on having sex with pretty much every man they want to have sex with. One-night stands, friendships with benefits, no more. They give up on endless amounts of male attention. gifts, presents, exciting adventures. They give up on traveling the world so that they get married and begin to have a common life with someone. They lose their male friends because guys are jealous and can't stand the thought of their wives or girlfriends being near other men. They give up on going to college/continuing their higher education goals because men want their wives to stay home. They have to stop talking to their single female friends on the regular, because these girls will want to go to nightclubs and bars, places where single men are looking to get laid, and these husbands don't want their wives to be near other men, for they lack trust in their wives. And I could on and on until the Moon and Mars have been terraformed and colonized. Men gain so much by getting married, whereas women lose so much by getting married. loses complete control of every penny he earns Nah. This is the USA/Europe. This isn't Japan. Men aren't supposed to give every cent they have to their wives. , can't do what he wants, can't buy what he wants Why? can the average man live like Johnny Depp or something? can't go where he wants when he wants and if he marries the wrong woman he's in for a life of misery and losing pretty well everything when they divorce because of that and on and on it goes. A life of misery??? This isn't Pakistan. He can get a divorce and go back to being single, dude. We still on with this fantasy that if a man gets married he loses his house, all of his money and the only reason he isn't forced to give to his ex-wife the clothes he's wearing is due to common decency And she'll get the house and a pretty alimony for years to come , a free pension , the car, even if she was the one that screwed round and destroyed the marriage. Nah. Alimony only lasts a couple of years at most, and that's if she was a stay-at-home mother and she had no income of her own. once she starts making her own money the alimony ends. The house is divided between the couple and the money of the house, when it's sold, is divided amongst them. I have a childhood friend of mine whose mother was a stay at home mom for 20 years, and then one day his father got bored, got together with a 19 year old(he was 52) and he dumped his wife, giving her only enough money to rent a room, and she got no money out of it, no property, no nothing. And the same is happening in the rest of the world. Women want a divorce? It's either forbidden, or if they get it he gets EVERYTHING and she can't even find another guy to marry her because ''damaged goods''. So you know ,they write all this bs and so called stats . but there's a lot more to most things than just what they stat about and two sides to every story, sometimes 10 sides. Especially when the guy is middle-aged, bitter, and feels that if he hadn't married he would have had the sex life of a 25 year old Brad Pitt, yeah. and ah yeah , l was married for 20yrs so l do have a little idea of what l'm talking about My father has been married for almost 40 years. With the same woman that he married when she was 19. With whom he's had 6 children. A woman who is still 90lbs and still has dozens of guys approaching her everyday, attractive young men in their early to late 20s, and she still has sex with him 3 times a week if not more. When every other guy is at the pub complaining about his wife - my father is bragging about her. So, guys if you don't want to make a bad choice when it comes to choosing a wife? Make sure you are of high quality in the first place. Link to post Share on other sites
sabaton Posted November 3, 2018 Share Posted November 3, 2018 My mom grew up in literally the middle of nowhere (and it's still nowhere to this day) out in the country on a farm. Her mom and dad had 13 children. No electricity, no running water, no plumbing. My dad used to comment that all the sisters from this family had been married more than once and make something out of it, so I asked my mom about it. The women married anyone they could scrape up out in the middle of nowhere to get them OUT of there. And then they divorced them a few years later and eventually remarried. No women were much working until WWII, when some were recruited as nurse-types or in factories in the absence of men. But things went back to the way they were once the men returned and by the 1950s, of course, you were back to the American stereotypical household where the man supports the household while the woman pops out babies and cleans house. It wasn't until birth control in the 1960s that women began going to work in earnest and not marrying because they had to have someone to support them and, well, enjoying sex with men they wanted to have it with and having more choice in the matter. It is a huge thing for women. It's still the same in most of the world. With girls being forced to marry the men they marry because of pressure being exherted on them by their own parents, because for several reasons, like, there's a lot more girls than guys, most guys are poor and this guy's family has money, or the family to whom the guy belongs to his a long-time friend to the girl's family and they want to connect the two families. Honestly, life for most women in the vast majority of this earth is pretty trashy, and they aren't given many choices at all, or freedom. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
brigit87 Posted November 4, 2018 Share Posted November 4, 2018 My father has been married for almost 40 years. With the same woman that he married when she was 19. With whom he's had 6 children. A woman who is still 90lbs and still has dozens of guys approaching her everyday, attractive young men in their early to late 20s, and she still has sex with him 3 times a week if not more. Its a bit disturbing that you know that much about your parents sex life. In any case most women have had lots of male friends whom they've grown tired of and did their backpacking prior to marriage. Link to post Share on other sites
Chilli Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 It's still the same in most of the world. With girls being forced to marry the men they marry because of pressure being exherted on them by their own parents, because for several reasons, like, there's a lot more girls than guys, most guys are poor and this guy's family has money, or the family to whom the guy belongs to his a long-time friend to the girl's family and they want to connect the two families. Honestly, life for most women in the vast majority of this earth is pretty trashy, and they aren't given many choices at all, or freedom. Dunno about any of that you got some weird ideas. Women in general have a bloody good life here and free as a bird , choose their own life and do what they want really. lf their smart they build a good life whatever that may be if not maybe they end up with 3kids to different men and on welfare , ya make your own bed. And no one marries anyone they don't choose to marry nor are they pressured in any way shape or form , or parents giving a fk about his family or wealth or pecking order or anything else. That's nona their business . All they'd hope for is that they love each other and are happy and that he's good to her. Link to post Share on other sites
sabaton Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 Its a bit disturbing that you know that much about your parents sex life. My parents are the product of a a very conservative culture, with the Catholic Church having a hold on their own parents and grandparents, no matter how far away they were from the Vatican. My parents swore that I wouldn't go through what they went through, and so mom and pops started talking about sex with me when I wasn't even 10 yet. I grew up seeing my parents naked walking around the house, and coming to realize that the human body and that human sexuality is a beautiful thing that shouldn't be hushed hushed about. In any case most women have had lots of male friends whom they've grown tired of and did their backpacking prior to marriage. What? I don't understand what you mean? Most women have had lots of male friends in their lives and they grew tired of these male friends, why exactly? Link to post Share on other sites
sabaton Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 Dunno about any of that you got some weird ideas. Women in general have a bloody good life here and free as a bird , choose their own life and do what they want really. Nah, that's not how it works, and I don't consider the western women to be the only women in the world. I see women as a whole. Women to me are not only the women who had the extreme good luck of having gotten married into the American upper-middle class. Women are the women who are married to working middle-class men. Women who are married to men who turned out to be alcoholics, or who developed the habit. Women who are married to men who are indifferent to them, who cheat on them. And there's millions of women in those situations and in worse situations all over the western nations. So, yes, most women in the world have it bad. lf their smart they build a good life whatever that may be if not maybe they end up with 3kids to different men and on welfare Yeah? And you think men come with ''I'm a drug-addict'' on their foreheads? or with '' I hate the idea of marriage but I gotta do it cuz my parents are nagging me'' which leads to him becoming a terrible marriage partner? Link to post Share on other sites
brigit87 Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 What? I don't understand what you mean? Most women have had lots of male friends in their lives and they grew tired of these male friends, why exactly? Because most of the close male friends I've ever had wanted to sleep with me. After a while they all confess it. Men will listen to your nonsense and problems very tentatively if their attracted to you. It's better to be friends with the same sex. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
alphamale Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 It's better to be friends with the same sex. I agree totally, almost all of the female friends I've had over the past 30 years wanted to hook up with me 1 Link to post Share on other sites
BluEyeL Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 I think dating was "easier" and relationship were "easier" in the past, but before the 60's. That is, because one didn't have too much freedom of choice. I'd use "simpler" instead of "easier", because it may not have been so easy for everyone to not have much choice in a partner. With freedom comes responsibility and stress and a sleuth of other issues. Relationships were also "easier" because the roles were very clearly set up, and marriages weren't necessarily for personal fulfillment, but for family, money etc. So the wife didn't expect flowers and the husband wasn't asked to help around the house. Love wasn't necessarily a requirement on either side. However, easier it's not always better. In fact, whatever is "easy" to get can be a pretty sh.itty deal. So I'll take today's situation 2 Link to post Share on other sites
seren Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 IDK if it was easier, but, I liked getting love letters, I have all of the one's my husband sent me, he has mine, he keeps far more things than me. Tickets to the cinema, shows etc, we both have a few pressed flowers we have given each other, we spoke on the phone, no text messages, no facetime. It felt more personal, you had to make an effort to ask a person out, no text messaging. I think the use of social media has de personalised a lot of the interaction that goes on when courting (did I use that word)? I like getting ready and having H pick me up and my Dad giving him the once over and that look, I liked the door opening and walking near the road so I wouldn't get splashed, he still does those things. I have always been equal, but different to a man, don't know if the chivalry thing still exists today, so cannot really compare if it is any easier. I do know that I would hate the whole social media thing as a way to communicate, but if you have only known that, then my way might seem antiquated. Link to post Share on other sites
carhill Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 Less terminology and fewer accounting ledgers back in the day. Now everything is so analyzed and broadcast to the planet on social media. Link to post Share on other sites
Chilli Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 (edited) But really , ya wonder how much of anything we read round here or in any other forum or the crap in media and lala land, is anything like the real world in wherever people are. lt's not even remotely like any of it in my world. Thank god. ! Yaknow , out of the billions of people in the world, there's only a micro few, in any one forum, lucky if it's 50 or 100 regulars actually talking. And a lot of the actual dating or meeting people stuff, is written by a few strugglers, bogged down and believing , living it seems , all the crap all over the net. But really , add all those people up from all the forums, and it would really only be a small glass full of sand , from a whole beach , yaknow. So l dunno how much of all the bs in really in your world but if it is anyone's real reality then l tell ya what, they have my sympathy . Edited November 7, 2018 by Chilli Link to post Share on other sites
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