Wife cheated with her boss

[BMI03]

We have son. He's scared as hell and I'm mostly taking care. She comes out to spend time but he gets more traumatized seeing her in a state she is.

 

She is apologising when she can and I don't think in a state she is she's talking to him, but what you seem to be right about is that feels like all about her, while I'm sitting here juggling things around and facing the cluster****.

 

I'm not seeing any forgiveness unless I'm certain she didn't sleep with him, but she did.

 

This is important to keep a clear head about. Other than tossing a ‘sorry’ your way every now and then, do you feel like she is trying to determine what she can do to make this betrayal up to you? Does she seem to be concerned with asking you what you want and need to heal? Why does she get to lock herself in the room to cry and mourn what’s lost when she was the one in control, and you are the victim. Why are you taking care of your child on your own while she has time to feel sorry for herself.

 

Because, she’s not remorseful. She is sad, and that’s authentic, but don’t misunderstand and think it’s sadness for what she has done to you. She is sad about the consiquences she has now exposed herself to. She is angry at herself for being so careless as to let you find out. She is fearful that her job may be in jepordy. And she is concerned that her boyfriend’s life and marriage is going to benefit overly impacted by her mistake. AND, finally, she is mourning the loss her comfortable household in parallel to getting to enjoy her steamy lover.

 

The tears are real, but none of them are for you.

 

If you still have her phone, and really want to know the details, and I know o would were I you, I would text her boss from her phone. Some carefully worded messages and questions should get you want you want. “How many times do you think we flirted before we did it?”, “I remember that first time you kissed me, I wonder how many times our lips have touched?”, “now we need to start counting the fun stuff!”...he will play along and feed you info while he flirts back. Use it. It’s an asset to you right now, but only for a limited time.

[ChrisH81]

I will have to have a chat with her to understand where are we at and what and why this happened.

 

She's getting messages from work but not from this guy and all work related.

[BMI03]

I will have to have a chat with her to understand where are we at and what and why this happened.

 

She's getting messages from work but not from this guy and all work related.

 

If she asks for her phone back, don’t do it. Don’t give her a chance to warn him, or to check her phone so she knows exactly how much you know.

 

If she asks for it, tell her that you can’t trust her right now, and that you can give it back, but that if you do, than any chance to begin rebuilding trust right now is removed because she could take action to protect herself and her boyfriend. Tell her that by leaving the phone with you, she is giving the two of you the best chance for trust to begin being reestablished. That Govig it back may mean not being able to trust any of the actions that come next on any potential path to reconciliation.

[ChrisH81]

If she asks for her phone back, don’t do it. Don’t give her a chance to warn him, or to check her phone so she knows exactly how much you know.

 

If she asks for it, tell her that you can’t trust her right now, and that you can give it back, but that if you do, than any chance to begin rebuilding trust right now is removed because she could take action to protect herself and her boyfriend. Tell her that by leaving the phone with you, she is giving the two of you the best chance for trust to begin being reestablished. That Govig it back may mean not being able to trust any of the actions that come next on any potential path to reconciliation.

 

I agree, she hasn't so far.

[Marc878]

I will have to have a chat with her to understand where are we at and what and why this happened.

 

She's getting messages from work but not from this guy and all work related.

 

You know where you're at. There is no excuse for an affair. Don't be surprised if she blames it on you. I suspect you'll get trickle truthed, blame shifting, etc.

 

If you don't take control of this now. She will.

 

At least You know what's going on. Be thankful you aren't in the dark.

[Marc878]

You know enough to end the affair. That's always the first step.

[40somethingGuy]

So are you saying you've stayed but your relationship is far from being the sane and you ate dismissive and uninterested? That you wish you had pulled the plug.

 

Call me ghost of Christmas Past, Scrooge, or in a nutshell you are me April 2016. Your story resonated so if you sense some passion, that is why.l My experience sucked and while I did many things right, I did not bat 1000. So I get the chance to give insight on what it is like 2 years later.

 

For a quick synopsis- I was with her at oldest kids cub scout meeting and long story short the den mom's hubby was an old FWB with my wife 15-20 years before. I happily put her thru hell and tested her to try and re-establish loyalty. I rarely get turned down for sex now...unlike before. But I have days where I am just mad. Not even anything she did. Maybe I saw him or maybe something just set me off. We are overall pretty OK. I spy on her and she has been clean. I should rejoice. My wife basically has done all the right things. And unlike you, I have proof she didn't have intercourse in texts. But she wanted to. So it is like she did. I have many days I just stay away from her so I just don't go off when upset for nothing she did. The only way to describe it is 'she is forever tainted.' It is my reality. Catch her again and humiliation will be my pleasure. I know that. But I reconciled, nearly 3 years later, better sex, better life. Still have regrets not just cutting the cancer out and letting her live with knowing our kids would learn she ruined the family.

[Simple Logic]

You got her to admit. Now tell HR and his wife. Your wife won't like it but she needs to see you mean business and are not anyone's chump. Make sure to watch the online phone records too. Do not do marriage therapy. Most will blame u for your wife's choices. Most are feminist man hating hags. Did she give up.the phone easily?

 

I keep reading all these tell HR. What do you want HR to do? Absent a complaint of work place sexual harassment most employers do not have work rules prohibiting consensual sex between their employees - even if it is supervisor subordinate.

[Marc878]

I keep reading all these tell HR. What do you want HR to do? Absent a complaint of work place sexual harassment most employers do not have work rules prohibiting consensual sex between their employees - even if it is supervisor subordinate.

 

Most companies have ethics standards in place with a clause for fratranization.

 

Plus the emails state they almost got caught in the office.

 

I've seen a few escorted out the door for this behavior.

[Simple Logic]

Most companies have ethics standards in place with a clause for fratranization.

 

Plus the emails state they almost got caught in the office.

 

I've seen a few escorted out the door for this behavior.

 

That’s because you do not have the entire facts concerning the dismissal nor is HR going to make the facts public to the work force. Getting tossed usually involves a complaint of sexual misconduct, which will get you tossed rather quickly as a supervisor.

 

You think HR is supposed to be a marriage cop. If the husband complains, HR will investigate. That may involve forensics of company owned email, computers, and cell phones. If both employees report everything is consensual and they almost got caught kissing then what?

 

Maybe his wife gets tossed with a severance (we never had this issue til we hired her) and the supervisor is retained because the company sees him as an asset. Now he gets to pay spousal support because the wife is unemployed and she is still banging her boss.

Edited October 30, 2018 by Simple Logic

[BMI03]

That’s because you do not have the entire facts concerning the dismissal nor is HR going to make the facts public to the work force. Getting tossed usually involves a complaint of sexual misconduct, which will get you tossed rather quickly as a supervisor.

 

You think HR is supposed to be a marriage cop. If the husband complains, HR will investigate. That may involve forensics of company owned email, computers, and cell phones. If both employees report everything is consensual and they almost got caught kissing then what?

 

Maybe his wife gets tossed with a severance (we never had this issue til we hired her) and the supervisor is retained because the company sees him as an asset. Now he gets to pay spousal support because the wife is unemployed and she is still banging her boss.

 

I disagree. If a company is large, professional, competitive, it has such ethics rules in place. It doesn’t require harassment complaints at all...just a (even relatively loose) seniority difference, or ability to influence over ones career.

 

Think of a company that hosts yearly performance rankings where employees at each level are laddered. Pay raises, bonuses, opportunities are based on that ranking. Someone in a more senior role cannot be in a relationship with someone in a more junior role without completely disclosing it to the company, and formally removing themselves from such performance processes.

 

I would suspect a law firm would especially be held to these standards given the potential for legal action if another employee felt the opportunities they were given were limited because of this relationship. Doesn’t have to be the case for it to be an issue, so most companies just draw a simple line in the sand that they expect you to follow.

 

The purpose of blowing it up with HR is also not to just ruin lives. It’s to expose the affair full on in public. It brings the WS to the realization of what they have done. It takes them from a position of control (in their eyes) and puts them into a position where they realize they do not control the situation any longer. This is the first step in seeing the harm they did, because they see themselves through other’s eyes. They see the shame for the first time because it’s not a secret any more. It really is the only first step to a true remorse and in turn, a true reconciliation.

Edited October 30, 2018 by BMI03

[Marc878]

It seems like he is leaning towards R. At this time he needs to take steps to try and kill the affair.

 

Nothing can happen until that ends.

[BMI03]

It seems like he is leaning towards R. At this time he needs to take steps to try and kill the affair.

 

Nothing can happen until that ends.

 

Agree with this!

 

 

Chris,

 

It may seem like the cat is out of the bag now, so the next step is to pick up the pieces and start working on things. You need to know that that is not where it is...yet...but you can get there.

 

For now, you need to see this from her perspective as well, so you protect yourself.

 

She has been keeping this secret for a long time that she has been sleeping with someone else. She thought you would NEVER find out. She continued to do it because she was so sure of it. She played around with him laughing about it. And then all of a sudden BANG, you know.

 

What would someone in that position do? They try to limit the damage. For now, she's doing damage control on two fronts. One, with you to limit the consequences she will feel for this. And two, for her OM because she feels a commitment to him and wants to protect him too.

 

So how does she do this? One, with you, she will try to limit your response. She will want to downplay. To do this, she will want to know how much you know. She will need to admit to at least that to maintain your trust, maybe even a bit more than you know in order to convince you she is coming clean and giving you the full truth, but this is also a lie. This is the same woman that a week ago would have answered a random cheating accusation with "I HAVE NEVER!".

 

So she will only go so far in what she admits which she thinks is needed to convince you she is being truthful. And she knows you...so she knows well where that line likely is. It may be:

 

"I am so sorry baby...I can't lie to you...I can't keep this up any longer because it's killing me inside to not share it with you...I don't know how it just escalated so quickly and I was in over my head before I even knew what was happening...it started with some flirting and I didn't know how to handle it because he is more senior than me, I was scared to say no and didn't know how to get out of it without it jeopardizing my career. It was only three times. He wanted more but I was able to hold back in some cases. Others, I thought it best to just go along with it to keep him happy so he wouldn't mess with my job...honey, I am so sorry...I should have just come to you. What's that? Press harassment charges? No, I just want to move on from this...the pain is too much and I don't want to be reminded of it. What's that? Tell his wife. You can't baby...my job...I don't want to create more drama than it already is. I will not be comfortable at work? Change jobs? But our mortgage...I don't think we can make such a dramatic change financially, and right now I feel so bad about all of this, all I want to do is go to work and get my days over with until I find something new. I will be able to avoid him at work and will make sure he knows his advances are not welcome. I may need your help...if he approaches me I will call you and you can support me, ok? Thanks baby...I love you so much...I feel closer to you having talked it out. We make a good team!".

 

Meanwhile, OM is being warned about what happened. They are coordinating stories, doing damage control together. They may decide together to end it, both planning on waiting until the heat dies down only. Then it all starts up again.

 

This is why you need to expose. YOU are not emotionally armed to hear the woman you love lie to you with such intensity about something you never want to be true in the first place, because you are helpless but to believe the lies. When you expose, you remove her from the driver's seat. Now, she loses the upper hand to manipulate you, because now other people have your back and are watching how things unfold. They can be the additional eyes and ears supporting your decisions and ensuring you are taking the right actions.

 

Only then, will she see the impact of her actions. And only then, will it hit her hard enough for her to hit the critical fork in the road where she needs to decide whether she wants her marriage or her lover, because only then will she realize she can't have both.

[oldlion]

If she ask for her phone back then give it to her. But before you do take pictures, or send to your phone, of all the text and anything else that relates to the affair. When you give her the phone let her know that you have recorded all the evidence and it won't do her any good to delete anything. Tell her if the AP is what she wants then she can have him. In fact while she is packing her clothes you will give him a call to come and pick her up. She just has to figure out how her, him and his wife are going to make sleeping arrangements. And tell the AP's wife what has happened. Right now you are in total charge. What you say and decide is what will take place. What type of personality does your wife have? Her personality and what she does in the face of the exposed affair will have an influence on your decisions. I do wish you well.

[ChrisH81]

You are all miles ahead of me. You say "she's going to keep seeing him, divorce, get her fired".

 

I'm not there yet, I just want to understand what the heck happened, ask her questions, get some sleep. In any order. Married dude many years older. Really?

 

We are going to have a talk like now. Not negotiable. She's not asking for her phone.

 

This is rather small privately own firm, doubt they care unless it all gets public.

[PegNosePete]

I just want to understand what the heck happened

You know what happened. She had/is having a sexual affair with her boss. Now she has got busted and is throwing a toddler tantrum because she can't have her cake and eat it, rather than talking to you like an adult human being.

 

ask her questions

Why? You know she will only lie, lie and lie again in her answers. That is what cheaters do. They lie until the cows come home, and then they keep on lying and lying and lying to cover up their other lies. As already mentioned many times, she will blame shift, deny, trickle truth, gaslight, and lie. That is what they always do! What questions do you want to ask? You have all the answers already.

 

get some sleep

Good luck with that one.

 

Best plan is instead of talking to her, talk to a lawyer ASAP. You need to know where you stand... even if you decide to stay in the marriage.

[BMI03]

You are all miles ahead of me. You say "she's going to keep seeing him, divorce, get her fired".

 

I'm not there yet, I just want to understand what the heck happened, ask her questions, get some sleep. In any order. Married dude many years older. Really?

 

We are going to have a talk like now. Not negotiable. She's not asking for her phone.

 

This is rather small privately own firm, doubt they care unless it all gets public.

 

I am with you here. I would have a deep desire to understand things at a super detailed level. However, as others have pointed out, she will lie. And she will downplay it as much as she can while still leading you to believe she is coming clean.

 

There will also be blame shifting...telling you it was because you were not paying attention to her, or telling you she felt pressure because it was her boss and she didn't know what to do. Watch for this. It may come across subtle at first, but there will be attempts by her to reduce her accountability for her actions. Don't buy it! No matter what, she had the option to not cheat, but instead she was selfish and chose to cheat. That's on her and no one else.

[Normm]

You are all miles ahead of me..

 

Not really. I get it, you're reeling and in shock. But the sooner you take control of the situation the better off you will be in the long run. At the moment, while it's understandable, you are being way too passive.

 

You confronted her- and luckily got some semblence of a confession - maybe. It can also work against you if you decide to divorce and need more proof aside from some text messages. She's probably spent the last 24 hours trying to figure out how to water it down and explain away those texts as best she can.

 

She's throwing a tantrum, a crying fit- and you're letting her do as she pleases- and you don't even know if it's because the affair is over, because she thinks the marriage is over, or because she's just scared that she got caught and doesn't know what's going to happen or what people will think of her. Maybe some of those tears are for you but don't count on it.

 

You should not let her just sit in there and cry and throw out the occasional "sorry". You need to get your child out of there- to a relative or babysitter, and you need to get in her face and lean on her - HARD. Start throwing her crap out the back door into the yard and yell at her that mr affair dude can come pick it up along with her- that sort of thing. She's no better than a spoiled child who got away with something for way too long- now it's time for consequences.

 

Right now you are doing nothing and that won't get you anywhere. Taking aggressive action is probably the last thing you want to do, but for your best interests, you have to.

[aliveagain]

If you do nothing else for now, make screenshots of her texts to her boss and save them somewhere she can't get access to them, expose the affair to the O/M's betrayed wife, she deserves the truth about her husband and your wife. It sounds from her texts that they are having hookups at the office(the comment about almost getting caught makes that clear), they can't work together anymore. He's a partner, your wife will be fired. Talk to a lawyer so you know your rights. It doesn't sound like your wife is remorseful, she never expected to get caught and by her behavior is only sorry she got caught. Remorseful spouses don't lock themselves in their room, they cling to you begging for another chance.

 

If she protects the other man you will know who she's loyal to. Before you decide on reconciliation or divorce have her write out a timeline of everything that happened in the affair, times, dates, where, how many times, what they did, said to each other, did they talk about you, about the things you shared only with your wife, did she do things for him she doesn't do for you, did she tell him she loves him? Do not wait for her to decide your future, take control. Did she bring him into your home, did they meet in your car? This would be a good time to let her know that you have doubts about her honesty and that she will be required to pass a polygraph test after you get her timeline with an examiner of your choosing(regardless if you do or not, she needs to know your going to confirm what she tells you). Do not make threats you are not prepared to defend. Tell her what you expect from her and the time frame you expect it in. The O/M will know something is up if she isn't going to work(assuming she has no way of communicating with him) and is already in damage control.

Edited October 30, 2018 by aliveagain

[40somethingGuy]

So are you saying you've stayed but your relationship is far from being the sane and you ate dismissive and uninterested? That you wish you had pulled the plug.

 

 

 

You know, I really don't know if I wished I pulled the plug or not. She will always be tainted to me. The best way I can describe it is the roller coaster that you can't seem to get off. Some days I really love my wife and some days something will set me off where the feelings of being betrayed overwhelm me and I end up treating her like crap for basically nothing. The OM lives 3 streets away and I have to drive by his (crappy) townhouse to get home. Sometimes I will see the obese, hairy beast outside and I will immediately get upset and take it out on her. Meanwhile she is wondering what she did wrong. I'd say I am more consistent now than I was but the anger consumed me for a really long time. I was floored she would do this with a married guy of 3 kids. Sometimes I just wonder if I went ahead and filed how things would turn out.

[ChrisH81]

You know, I really don't know if I wished I pulled the plug or not. She will always be tainted to me. The best way I can describe it is the roller coaster that you can't seem to get off. Some days I really love my wife and some days something will set me off where the feelings of being betrayed overwhelm me and I end up treating her like crap for basically nothing. The OM lives 3 streets away and I have to drive by his (crappy) townhouse to get home. Sometimes I will see the obese, hairy beast outside and I will immediately get upset and take it out on her. Meanwhile she is wondering what she did wrong. I'd say I am more consistent now than I was but the anger consumed me for a really long time. I was floored she would do this with a married guy of 3 kids. Sometimes I just wonder if I went ahead and filed how things would turn out.

 

Man, that's what concerns me when I start thinking about the future here. That my and our life will be like that if I stay. I'm positive I won't ever fully forgive.

 

And in your case - if I read it right - there was no actual sex involved!

[ChrisH81]

To everyone else - I'm not ignoring the advice, it just my processing queue is overloaded.

I need to create a checklist and follow it, otherwise I'll get drowned.

 

- I do have copies of the texts.

- Son is with someone else, the place he loves staying.

- I managed to have a 1st more or less meaningful albeit brief chat. The problem is that even when she says what I want to hear and want many of you are suggesting, I simply don't believe it - huge shock for both of us.

 

- she denies sex (really?)

- she's not planning to come back to work (OK but is this because she realised how did she ****ed my life or because of the fallout? )

- she never intended to abandon the marriage and "desperately wants to work things out" (then why cheat in the 1st place? )

[40somethingGuy]

Man, that's what concerns me when I start thinking about the future here. That my and our life will be like that if I stay. I'm positive I won't ever fully forgive.

 

And in your case - if I read it right - there was no actual sex involved!

 

I saw in the texts that sex didn't happen because the OM backed down and ended it. It was over a lunch break where she got into his van and 'talked.' There were at least 5 texts where my WW told him she wanted him to f*** her and they talked about going to a PA. This lunch date was supposed to be the 1st session. I remember the day well- I was going to buy her a new car and asked to meet for lunch to discuss a couple options. She declined because she was too busy to take lunch. Only to find out that she declined because she thought she was gonna get some from him in a park across the street from where she works. He told me she offered him a bj and he declined. No sex matters from the standpoint of STD's and the fact that if that walking disease was in my wife I could never touch her again...but intent was there so I take it like she did. It is a crappy burden to live with and it does change the relationship. Ironically, I do think my wife appreciates me more today and there have been times when she will break down and cry for hurting me so badly. She hated herself for hurting me (according to her).

 

 

So, how are things going? Did she finally start to talk? What are your next steps?

[40somethingGuy]

To everyone else - I'm not ignoring the advice, it just my processing queue is overloaded.

I need to create a checklist and follow it, otherwise I'll get drowned.

 

- I do have copies of the texts.

- Son is with someone else, the place he loves staying.

- I managed to have a 1st more or less meaningful albeit brief chat. The problem is that even when she says what I want to hear and want many of you are suggesting, I simply don't believe it - huge shock for both of us.

 

- she denies sex (really?)

- she's not planning to come back to work (OK but is this because she realised how did she ****ed my life or because of the fallout? )

- she never intended to abandon the marriage and "desperately wants to work things out" (then why cheat in the 1st place? )

Regarding the last point, and this is really no comfort, but I think many women struggle with monogamy. Men too. After time, things normalize and life takes over. A chance to sleep with another person can be exciting to a person. They may get bored with the same person who is predictable. A new person brings out excitement. It is just they can't get caught. One thing my wife admitted is that she planned to 'take this to the grave.' That scared me to think her conscience wouldn't kill her. Before I found out, I do remember at church seeing her tear up. She blamed allergies but they were tears rolling. Later told me that she was feeling guilty and asked God not to let me find out because she knew it would devastate me. I found out the next day! So much for those prayers being answered!

 

 

Also, if she denies sex what does she admit to? Of course, it will be very watered down.

Edited October 30, 2018 by 40somethingGuy

[Normm]

even when she says what I want to hear and want many of you are suggesting, I simply don't believe it

 

No reason to believe it. Stay the course.

 

she denies sex

Cheaters lie. Even in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary. It's almost like if they say it didn't happen they can almost believe it never happened. Once it's acknowledged, it's a real thing, it's out there, and it can't be put back in its cage.

 

she's not planning to come back to work

 

Great, if you're looking to reconcile. That's how it has to be.

 

he never intended to abandon the marriage and "desperately wants to work things out" (then why cheat in the 1st place? )

 

Why do people drink even though they might be in bed with a serious hangover the next day? Why do people speed down the highway even though "speed kills"?. Why do people engage in risky behavior in the first place? Because they either don't think it through or they don't think they'll get caught.

 

He told me she offered him a bj and he declined.

 

That wasn't in the texts? You know it didn't happen because the OM told you it didn't happen. Which means, it happened. No man declines an offered BJ.