Survival support needed...

[Unable2MoveOn]

Hi,

 

I have been reading the forum for a while and it has been really helpful to read about other stories similar to mine! I have recognized myself, especially all the emotions I am going through, and it helps to know that these emotions seem to be rather normal (I had started thinking I was going completely crazy...).

 

Brief background of my story: I had an EA with a MM for about two years, which then turned into a PA last spring. As most of us, I never thought I would wind up as the OW, but there I was... We were very close and loving and I cannot help but see him as the love of my life. He never had the intention to leave his wife and was always talking very warmly and lovingly of her. Somehow we were both just living the moment, not thinking about the future, and I actually liked the way he still appreciated his wife after over 20 years and that it was the first time he ever cheated on her (and I do believe that).

Then D-day happened about nine weeks ago.

It was a shock for both of us, since we had never intended to threaten his family life (they have a 14 year old daughter), so our first reaction was that of course our relationship has to end immediately and he has to focus on saving his marriage. We are still having daily calls and we are missing each other like hell. He still wants to try to fix his marriage, especially for the relationship with his daughter (his wife seems to be trying to drive a wedge between them). He is still emotionally attached to his wife, but he really seems to be re-evaluating their relationship and has been telling me about her tendency for excessive reactions and how he is losing respect. She wants to divide, but is not very consistent. He cannot leave her, also for financial reasons, but wouldn't mind her leaving so much anymore. He says he is hurting as much as I am and still loves and misses me like crazy. He just has to do what's most reasonable now and basically see how things will work out with his wife.

 

He has been honest with me all this time, never made any promises he didn't keep, didn't suddenly dump me and disappear (as I have been reading happens in most cases). I do believe he genuinely loves me and is also confused, torn and stuck in that situation... He does not demand or expect anything from me right now and understands if I have to move on with my life...

But I am stuck in this deep pain and still hoping... I cannot imagine to be completely without him in my life (NC). We are also best friends and closest confidants for each other. I don't know how to survive this...

 

Any thoughts? Has anyone here had the experience that MM and OW got together after D-day somehow? I am also open to critical comments, as I think I need to hear them (e.g. I am in denial, etc.)...

[ladydesigner]

It was a shock for both of us, since we had never intended to threaten his family life (they have a 14 year old daughter), so our first reaction was that of course our relationship has to end immediately and he has to focus on saving his marriage. We are still having daily calls and we are missing each other like hell. He still wants to try to fix his marriage, especially for the relationship with his daughter (his wife seems to be trying to drive a wedge between them). He is still emotionally attached to his wife, but he really seems to be re-evaluating their relationship and has been telling me about her tendency for excessive reactions and how he is losing respect. She wants to divide, but is not very consistent. He cannot leave her, also for financial reasons, but wouldn't mind her leaving so much anymore. He says he is hurting as much as I am and still loves and misses me like crazy. He just has to do what's most reasonable now and basically see how things will work out with his wife.

A

 

He should be in NC if he wants his M to work. His wife is probably worried you are both still in contact. The M will never heal that way and neither will you.

 

I am a FMOW and a BS many times over. The pain from betrayal hurts everyone involved.

 

No contact and ending the A or him D'ing (but I wouldn't wait for this, many MM waffle on this) are really the only ways out of this unless you want to prolong your pain.

 

I'm very sorry you find yourself in this situation.

Edited October 27, 2018 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[elaine567]

He still wants to try to fix his marriage, especially for the relationship with his daughter (his wife seems to be trying to drive a wedge between them). He is still emotionally attached to his wife, but he really seems to be re-evaluating their relationship and has been telling me about her tendency for excessive reactions and how he is losing respect. She wants to divide, but is not very consistent. He cannot leave her, also for financial reasons, but wouldn't mind her leaving so much anymore.

 

How terribly inconvenient for the wife to be causing trouble for him...

Her life and that of her daughter has been blown apart but heaven forbid her reaction may be "excessive"...

Oh dear...

[misspalmy]

I think his wife told him its her or u for good. he choose her. why she puts up with his lies is on her. he will do it again

 

It takes one day at a time. it does get better over time xx

[FMW]

"He just has to do what's most reasonable now and basically see how things will work out with his wife."

 

As long as he is in regular contact with you and telling you how much he misses and loves you there's no way his marriage can work out well. It doesn't matter what his reasons for staying in the marriage are (or what he TELLS you are his reasons), unless and until he moves to end it you are an intruder in his family. Your presence in his life is destructive to his wife and daughter.

 

If you really love him you would back off and let him resolve his marital situation, whether that means healing and reconciling it or divorcing.

 

If you love yourself you won't settle for secret scraps and ongoing heartache. Whatever his love for you is it is clearly less than his desire to maintain his marriage.

[Amethyst68]

I'm confused, you say he can't leave her for financial reasons but wouldn't mind her leaving him - wouldn't those financial reasons still exist? They don't magically disappear depending on which spouse leaves the the marriage., so that's one reason I would stop believing immediately.

 

 

As for his relationship his daughter, your MM doesn't need any help destroying that, she's 14, old enough to figure out what's going on.

 

 

You need to stay out of their marriage and go NC, you make a big deal about how much you liked the way he appreciated his wife, well this is the time to prove it.

 

 

I also think that no matter how many phone calls you may get professing his love and moaning about his wife, the only way you'll get this MM is if his BS gets tired and throws him out. Oh he may come limping back to resume the PA (since the EA has never stopped) but you won't get him till she's one that decides!

Edited October 27, 2018 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
rude

[Unable2MoveOn]

They had their previous crises in the past, she has cheated on him also at one point in their marrriage (her affair had lasted well over a year). He has not been telling me too much about these things, but now in the aftermath of D-day it seems that all those old wounds are breaking open again. She has a tendency (in general) not to own up to any mistakes, to blame him for everything that goes wrong and to easily threaten him with divorce whenever she feels he has done something wrong (like e.g. a small car accident last year for which repair costs occured). This is what I meant with the excessive reactions, they are not limited to the current situation. He has been forgiving and trying to see her good traits all the time, he had never been able to imagine to be without her and thought she was the only woman on earth for him for so long, and that has changed now. I do not want to sound as if I am denying responsibilty or wrongdoing again, because I am not, but I do think that there are also reasons why (some) MM even are able open up to someone else. It is not necessarily always the case that he is just a complete a**hole and the wife is only the poor, innocent victim. There may be a history that made something possible in the first place... Again I hope it is clear what I am trying to explain...

Edited October 27, 2018 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[elaine567]

How much of this info about their marriage is observed by you first hand and how much of it is what HE tells you?

[Unable2MoveOn]

He should be in NC if he wants his M to work. His wife is probably worried you are both still in contact. The M will never heal that way and neither will you.

 

I am a FMOW and a BS many times over. The pain from betrayal hurts everyone involved.

 

No contact and ending the A or him D'ing (but I wouldn't wait for this, many MM waffle on this) are really the only ways out of this unless you want to prolong your pain.

 

I'm very sorry you find yourself in this situation.

 

I tried to explain the "excessive reaction" thing in my previous post. His wife is basically raging, shouting around the whole neighborhood, posting things on facebook, shouting vulgar things in front of the daughter. Everybody reacts differently to being hurt, but e.g. she has never cried so far, at least not to his knowledge. Maybe I am being unfair and I am definitely not objective (no matter how hard I want to try to be), but it is hard for me to see her pain. When D-day happened I was devastated not only for the obvious reasons and my pain, but also because I imagined how painful this must be for her, and I was really ashamed. But what I learned since about her in general does not sound to me like she is someone who his really hurt, but rather like she someone who is raging because she has lost control over somebody she thought she could handle easily in any way she wants.

 

But you are right, as long as he still wants to try with the M NC would surely be the only solution, rationally this totally makes sense to me. It is just so incredibly hard to imagine... Losing the friendship and the closest confidant is the hardest thing about it... Thank you for your kind words!

[Unable2MoveOn]

... Your presence in his life is destructive to his wife and daughter.

 

If you really love him you would back off and let him resolve his marital situation, whether that means healing and reconciling it or divorcing.

 

If you love yourself you won't settle for secret scraps and ongoing heartache. Whatever his love for you is it is clearly less than his desire to maintain his marriage.

 

 

Thank you for this, I really need to try to get those truths hammered into my mind...

[elaine567]

I tried to explain the "excessive reaction" thing in my previous post. His wife is basically raging, shouting around the whole neighborhood, posting things on facebook, shouting vulgar things in front of the daughter. Everybody reacts differently to being hurt, but e.g. she has never cried so far, at least not to his knowledge. Maybe I am being unfair and I am definitely not objective (no matter how hard I want to try to be), but it is hard for me to see her pain. When D-day happened I was devastated not only for the obvious reasons and my pain, but also because I imagined how painful this must be for her, and I was really ashamed. But what I learned since about her in general does not sound to me like she is someone who his really hurt, but rather like she someone who is raging because she has lost control over somebody she thought she could handle easily in any way she wants.

 

It is just grief.

1. Denial and isolation;

2. Anger;

3. Bargaining;

4. Depression;

5. Acceptance.

The stages may not come in the order presented here, sounds like she is at the moment stuck on anger.

Of course this is not just about grief for her life and her marriage, but also there is betrayal involved here too, so feeling angry is not really surprising is it?

Edited October 27, 2018 by elaine567

[Unable2MoveOn]

How much of this info about their marriage is observed by you first hand and how much of it is what HE tells you?

 

You are right of course that I only know what he tells me, and I am aware of that. But I also know that he is an extremely authentic, self-critical and reflecting kind of person. It probably wasn't right to call it an EA before the PA started - it was rather a very intense, close friendship. We were referring to each other as something like brother and sister, making the importance of our presence in each other's life clear without admitting that our feelings were actually more than that (only in retrospect I am thinking of it actually having been an EA in some way all along).

Everything he ever told me has been consistent. He has been talking a lot about his own faults and shortcomings, not only regarding his M, but in general. And I met his wife a few times (through mutual friends, in the pre-PA phase). He always kept reminding me that I only hear his side of the story (no matter if the story was about the M or about anything else). We were still in the "friendship" phase when the car accident happened and his wife wanted to divorce and wasn't talking to him for days. He was devastated and depressed, but still defending her, saying that she just "panics" in certain situations, causing her to overreact. We also had our disagreements and fights, before and during the PA, and I know how he does own up to mistakes and tries to work on himself. I just really have no reason to doubt his accounts of things happening. Again, I might be totally naive, but I have no reason not to believe him...

[Unable2MoveOn]

I'm confused, you say he can't leave her for financial reasons but wouldn't mind her leaving him - wouldn't those financial reasons still exist? They don't magically disappear depending on which spouse leaves the the marriage., so that's one reason I would stop believing immediately.

 

That is for legal reasons in a potential divorce case. Would he be the one to leave it would make a difference in potential alimony claims she could make against him.

[Poppy's sister]

Oh OP...i was you once.

 

well my affair was full on PA from day one, fell head over heels in love etc etc.

We had tentatively started to talk about how this was not what we had expected to happen nor what we had intended etc etc. and we were skirting around talking about the future but it was clearly there in our conversations that we wanted a future together. There was no future faking or promises..

 

d-day for him and we had exactly the same scenario...however he has always said from day 1 that his marriage was not what he wanted but his kids meant the world to him. We had barely discussed our spouses and certainly never bad mouthed them.

 

we had a very painful conversation and decided that for the children's sake ( his and mine) we would stay in our marriages ....god it hurt so bad

we never stopped contact and pretty much carried on the affair...but much reduced.

 

it is now 7 years later !!! yes 7 years and i am still in the situation.

He is still at home .

It hurts every single day

 

I am trying so hard to find the courage to end this but it has become part of my normality.

I cry most days and grieve for what i just dont know.

 

he is content to wait the next few years out and finds what contact we have enough but he admits he compartmentalises to deal with the emotions. I am finding it harder and harder.

 

imagine being like this...imagine every weekend, every holiday, every christmas, birthday, anniversary...thinking how you want to be with him but he can't or wondering if it is all worth it ?

 

the damage to your self esteem is huge.

 

I wish i had walked away and dealt with the sharp pain of loss at d day.

You have that chance OP...he is just one man..there will be others

[Unable2MoveOn]

I wish i had walked away and dealt with the sharp pain of loss at d day.

You have that chance OP...he is just one man..there will be others

 

Thank you for sharing your story, it sounds horrible and very similar to my situation... I am so sorry you have been going through this for such a long time, it is hard to imagine that the pain I am in right now would last for so long, I do not know how I could endure it...

I should really learn from your experience and just walk away now instead of just dragging it on forever... I hope I will find the strength, I don't yet know how to do that...

[Unable2MoveOn]

What I was trying to convey was that in previous crises she has already wanted to divorce him at least 3 times, for petty reasons (like the car accident). He was close to moving out twice and only in the last minute his begging her has turned the situation around again. He says he has been so emotionally dependant on her thinking he could never be with another woman. When she had an A for over a year some time ago, she also blamed it on him being insufficient, and to this day she keeps the view that when she cheated it was "something totally different" and ultimately his fault.

All I want to say is that the truth may be more complex than just "the BS is always the poor, loving, innocent victim and MM/OW are the monsters". Life is not only black and white...

Edited October 28, 2018 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
quote of deleted post

[FMW]

I agree with you that that those issues aren't black and white.

 

But what IS black and white is that both he and his wife are, at least for now, choosing to stay married. Even through all the turmoil and infidelity on both sides - they are choosing to stay together.

 

There is no place for you in this situation as it stands. Holding on is only going to deepen and prolong the pain you feel. You need to cut all contact with him.

 

If it makes it easier for you, don't look at it as a permanent ending, but as a break to help both of you clear your heads a bit and figure out what to do next. If you are meant to be together it will eventually work out. But right now you need to remove yourself from his life for everyone's sake, not the least your own.

 

If he really loves you he won't want you to be in this situation, pushed into secrecy and distress. He needs to straighten his mess out. You need to leave him alone to do it.

[elaine567]

That is for legal reasons in a potential divorce case. Would he be the one to leave it would make a difference in potential alimony claims she could make against him.

 

Ok, so not only has he betrayed her, and cheated on her, and lied to her, he also wants to minimise any alimony she may be due too...

 

 

Now he has you waiting in limbo land whist he tries to patch it all up with his wife.

At Dday he chose her, not you, so why are you still waiting around?

Do you really want to be someone's second best, someone's second choice?

His sweet words are fine, but actions are what really count.

On Dday he could have said, Great, she knows, I will pack a bag, I will get a divorce and we can be together... only he didn't, did he...

He scuttled back to his wife and is keeping you on a string as A) plan B in case she chucks him out, or B) as his OW - service will be resumed once the chaos dies down...

[Starswillshine]

My husband had an affair. I am divorcing him. It made zero difference in the amount of alimony I would receive whether he files or I file. He had the affair. It wont make a difference.

 

DDays are traumatic. I yelled, I screamed, I threw stuff, I got horribly angry.

 

My WS told his OW, too, that he was no longer scared to lose me. Ok, so why doesnt he just leave? But truth was, that was a defense mechanism he was using for himself. And also... to not anger his OW any further. I left, he has begged nearly every day for a year to come back.

 

He isnt an authentic man. He has lied to his wife all this time while being in an affair. Remember this... all the lies he has had to tell her. Dont think it doesnt go the other way. Look at his actions. He is married and choosing to stay married.

[Unable2MoveOn]

If it makes it easier for you, don't look at it as a permanent ending, but as a break to help both of you clear your heads a bit and figure out what to do next. If you are meant to be together it will eventually work out. But right now you need to remove yourself from his life for everyone's sake, not the least your own.

 

If he really loves you he won't want you to be in this situation, pushed into secrecy and distress. He needs to straighten his mess out. You need to leave him alone to do it.

 

 

Thank you for this, this really helps. I need to read it over and over again, and try to really get it... Right now thinking of NC makes me all shaky and my heart is beating heavily, but I do understand that this is what I will finally have to do... Thank you for the support and understanding words!!

[somanymistakes]

My husband had an affair. I am divorcing him. It made zero difference in the amount of alimony I would receive whether he files or I file. He had the affair. It wont make a difference.

 

In some locations, if you leave the marital home, you may forfeit it to the spouse left behind, or be obligated to pay the mortgage/rent for the spouse who stays as well as for your own.

 

So while it usually doesn't matter who 'files' it may matter who 'leaves'.

 

Yes, he's probably just BSing and waffling. But it matters to me never to be too certain about things that aren't certain.

[Unable2MoveOn]

He isnt an authentic man. He has lied to his wife all this time while being in an affair. Remember this... all the lies he has had to tell her. Dont think it doesnt go the other way. Look at his actions. He is married and choosing to stay married.

 

 

Thank you for sharing your perspective, the experience from the other side... They have very much led separate lives, not doing really a lot together, but she meeting her friends and having her activities, so he often told me how surpising it was also for him how little he actually has to lie about his whereabouts. Also the daughter spends most of the time somewhere out with friends. They never had meals together or otherwise had the normal classic family life one would imagine... This was also surprising for me.

 

 

But you are right, his actions and what he is choosing now should tell me everything I need to know...

[Unable2MoveOn]

Yes, he's probably just BSing and waffling. But it matters to me never to be too certain about things that aren't certain.

 

Thanks a lot for your comment! I am trying to portray a balanced view on the whole situation, and while of course he might be BSing or keeping his options open or whatever, I also want to mention aspects that have to be considered. Thank you for acknowledging that balanced view, while still being sceptical!

It makes me feel much more understood and it is easier for me to accept the sceptical comments when I feel they are coming from someone who tries to not think only black and white...

 

This does not mean I am not grateful for the very critical comments, I feel all of them help me getting clearity and structuring my own thoughts. And it just helps to be able to share how I am feeling so I really want to thank all of you!

[Starswillshine]

Thank you for sharing your perspective, the experience from the other side... They have very much led separate lives, not doing really a lot together, but she meeting her friends and having her activities, so he often told me how surpising it was also for him how little he actually has to lie about his whereabouts. Also the daughter spends most of the time somewhere out with friends. They never had meals together or otherwise had the normal classic family life one would imagine... This was also surprising for me.

 

 

But you are right, his actions and what he is choosing now should tell me everything I need to know...

 

Just be careful truly believing what he has said. Not to say he is 100% lying, but he also lies.

 

I can only give my story. We have a lot of children who are very active with extra curricular activities. We also have our own friends. We had separate lives. But we also very much had a together life. We didnt get to eat dinner together as family much because someone was always running some one to practice. But our relationship was VERY intimate and had a lot of time together. Our nights were spent cuddling on the couch. We had sex nearly daily. Etc. All while having the affair. He told his OW sorta the same things. "Our kids are busy, we just do our own thing." While that is true, we both had lives outside of each other (which is healthy, imo, the reverse is not), he didnt speak of our lives together. She just assumed we didnt. There was a lot of those things going on..where he up-played a lot of things. And downplayed or just left out others. So just be careful of assuming what is actually going on in their home.

[Starswillshine]

Btw, the OW in my case and I had a lot of communication. And while there were days where she was and still is completely crazy, bunny boiler type, he told her things that she was able in her mind to make into bigger negatives than they really were.

 

It was funny to hear how he told her things and how she could turn them into a big negative (and when I talked to her, I understood how she came to the conclusion), but she was only getting a small fraction of the total picture.