non believers that blame God! I hate this!

[HondaChick]

Very interesting topic...thinking about whether or not I should chime in...lol

[d'Arthez]

Ok, whenever you say this, won't you agree, that I, being a believer can say the same about your outlook on the subject? That what you are saying is far from fact, or verifiable truth?

It seems you were unable to read beyond the quoted sentence, Moose. And, to hold some views as "Final Truth" whatever your views are, is plainly ignorant.

 

Philosophically speaking the main advantage of atheism above theism, is in the fact that you require one less premise to explain why phenomenons exist, as they do exist.

[Moose]

Get off of your intellectual soap box will ya????

 

When you say that what I believe is far from fact or verifiable truth, I can say the same about what you believe, yes or no?

 

Doesn't take a friggin scholar to understand that question......geeeeez!!!

[d'Arthez]

Moose which part don't you understand in one of my previous posts:

It is just as ignorant and hurtful to maintain such an argument as the Truth, as to hold asTruth that God does not exist and the childishness of concepts in Christianity such as Heaven, the Second Coming and the Apocalypse, and that the afterlife is just a means to make life seem more rewarding to those who are suffering.

Where did I claim that the latter was the Truth?

[Moose]

Where did I claim that the latter was the Truth?

You didn't, you said:

And, to hold some views as "Final Truth" whatever your views are, is plainly ignorant.

Would you, or would you not agree that what you claim is true for non-believers as well?

 

You keep dodging answering this question. What's so difficult? What else do you need to understand what I'm asking?

 

You say that my belief is far from fact or verifiable truth, can you, or would you say the same for non-believers?

 

I believe you've anserwed this in a round about way. I want to hear plain and simple.

 

If my beliefs are far from fact, or verifiable truth, wouldn't the same be true for you, or for non-believers?

[d'Arthez]

You didn't, you said:Would you, or would you not agree that what you claim is true for non-believers as well?

Only with regards to the question of God and religion. With regards to science and things that can be scientifically proven, there may be a Final Truth; such as that the absolute zero of temperature is at 0 K.

 

You keep dodging answering this question. What's so difficult? What else do you need to understand what I'm asking?

And which part of the English language don't you understand, to comprehend that "you" is not only to address a single person?

 

You say that my belief is far from fact or verifiable truth, can you, or would you say the same for non-believers?

With regards to the existence or non-existence of God, yes.

 

If my beliefs are far from fact, or verifiable truth, wouldn't the same be true for you, or for non-believers?

Beliefs are verifiable facts, with regards to their existence; religious beliefs are verifiable facts, with regards to their existence, but the truth of the religious belief cannot be proven - in contradistinction with the belief that the Earth revolves around the Sun for instance. The scientific method does not hold for religious matters; and every theologician knows that.

[Moose]

With regards to science and things that can be scientifically proven, there may be a Final Truth; such as that the absolute zero of temperature is at 0 K.

You've answered that like a true scientist. "there may be a Final Truth"

And which part of the English language don't you understand, to comprehend that "you" is not only to address a single person?

Don't patronize me......Hooked on Fonics was an obvious waste of money......

The scientific method does not hold for religious matters;

Like I said before, that door swings both ways......

[d'Arthez]

Like I said before, that door swings both ways......

Fine, hold as a religious truth that ice melts at 100 degrees Celcius, which is of course not provably untrue, as it is your belief.

[Israfil]

[to d'Arthez] Get off of your intellectual soap box will ya????

 

... ...

[Moose]

Fine, hold as a religious truth that ice melts at 100 degrees Celcius, which is of course not provably untrue, as it is your belief.

I'm not sure what you're saying here, but:

 

As obvious as it is to you that ice melts at 100 degrees Celcius, the same goes for me and how obvious it is that God does indeed exist.

 

But, whenever this is explained, the non-believer will usually go on the attack.

 

There are some scientific explainations that are excepted by the general consensus, including non-believers that doesn't require tangible evidence.

 

Why do you think it is that non-believers can't grasp the concept of God until something terrible happens, then all of a sudden, there He is to place blame upon?

 

You said my explaination was nonsense, what is your explaination?

[RecordProducer]

If nobody ever taught you about God, you would never know that it exists. Of course you wouldn't know about radiation or the solar system either, but those are scientifically proven facts.

 

What you call God, I call nature. And nature gave us not only water, stone, sun or air, but also animals, humans, ability to love, hate, kiss, kill, live, die...

 

It's often unexplainable. So just as we can't say Nature is evil or generous solely, it can't be said about God either. But at least don't think that God can see you going to church every Sunday, because that's really impossible. The Bilble was written by people.

[smile95]

I am waiting for Moose's reply to RP post!

[Moose]

I am waiting for Moose's reply to RP post!

Why? The senario she just painted is just what I'm talking about. People who've never learned of God and HIS, (not it's), way, are ignorant of the obvious.

 

Man has worshipped a, "Higher Being", since the dawn of time, plain and simple.

 

She may think the Scriptures are man made, and that's fine with her, she has that right. What she says isn't the say all, end all though, and I have the right to call what she wrote total nonsense. ( it's an opinion ).

 

What's wrong about it, are non-believers getting defensive because we won't accept anything but what we deem as Truth, no matter what science has to say about it. And when they blame a God they don't even believe in, basically, being hypocrites to justify the reasons they don't believe.

[Outcast]

Man has worshipped a, "Higher Being", since the dawn of time, plain and simple.

 

This is true. On every continent, in every society, without Bibles or other literature, people have concluded there must be some sort of Divine.

 

So just as we can't say Nature is evil or generous solely, it can't be said about God either. But at least don't think that God can see you going to church every Sunday, because that's really impossible

 

In our limited human understanding, we think it's impossible. We also used to think it was impossible for humans to fly through the air or go to the moon. It is only that we have not advanced enough to understand how, not that it isn't possible.

 

And believing that we are not limited in our understanding only shows how limited we are

[RecordProducer]

Why? The senario she just painted is just what I'm talking about. People who've never learned of God and HIS, (not it's), way, are ignorant of the obvious.

 

Man has worshipped a, "Higher Being", since the dawn of time, plain and simple.

 

She may think the Scriptures are man made

 

Yes. As you said, we give different names to the same power. Sorry the pronoun "it" I used for God was a typo, but subconsciously I said "it", because God or this higher power is not a man or a woman but a set of higher (natural) laws that happen to us, often without our consent. People don't have answers and they are confused by the bad things that happen to us, sometimes for no reason, so they want an explanation. They need the name of this "thing" that's responsible for our happenings and feelings.

 

Actually I understand this very well, because I am not religious, but I pray to God for things I feel helpless about. I pray to God for my children's health and thank God almost every day that they are healthy and alive. I can't save them from everything so I need to rely on somebody's protection that everything will be okay. It gives me peace and faith. It makes me think that if I care enough, some power will do me a favor and watch them. I promised myself that I will never pray for love, more money or anything except health. Living a life without faith is very difficult. To watch evil, disasters, and accidents happen randomly to people and knowing that it may happen to the ones you care about is terrifying.

 

Some people want more answers than others. And some people were influenced by their parents to accept certain religion. I actually have a lot of respect for people who are truly religious as in try to be moral, honest, and all in all live their lives with respect for others. Many "religious" people are hypocrites, just like many atheists have high moral values. I personally don't care whether you're good because you believe in God or because you want to be good. As long as you do no harm to others, you're a nice human being and your faith is your personal thing that doesn't stand between you and me.

[ButtonPusher]

Haha this thread is good evidence to support that old saying about never talking about politics or religion. People tend to be quite stubborn and defensive when discussing these things and often are not 100% listening to the other views being presented. LS as I've come to see would be a useful tool for a pyschology student

 

As to the thread topic, I have sometimes said things like "why would god do these things if he was such a powerful figure etc". As a non christian (but non atheist), I say things like that to tease christians because they're just so much fun to bait sometimes hehehehe. If the thread starter ever reads this, I get the feeling your friend says these things as she can't accept the idea of an external god, but at the same time is seeking for some deeper meaning to life. My advice, if she says things like this again, just play along with her and enjoy hearing someone elses beliefs. Why get angry with her if you are confident in your beliefs? Or perhaps the anger is a sign of your doubts? heeheehee sorry couldnt resist.

[Blackfrost]

If the thread starter ever reads this, I get the feeling your friend says these things as she can't accept the idea of an external god, but at the same time is seeking for some deeper meaning to life. My advice, if she says things like this again, just play along with her and enjoy hearing someone elses beliefs. Why get angry with her if you are confident in your beliefs? Or perhaps the anger is a sign of your doubts? heeheehee sorry couldnt resist.

 

I'm with you Dukkha.

[strato33150]

interesting that you see it that way. The person that said this to me is trying to convince me God does not exist and is very condescending to me and my beliefs. She is atheist and prob using that in her argument like you said

 

yeh true if they dnt believe in god then they should not b bitchin, usually i get in a atheist mood when i pissed off, and blame every in god, and say **** liek "y does he bring terror to teh world and ****" but i think those ppl of blame god for s*** that goes on in the world,usually have issues

[bunnzy]

Noone has yet stated that these are the last days, full of wars, hurricanes, tsunami's, bombs, broken families, corrupt government, all prophesied of in scripture. God does not want these things to happen, but without knowing the bitter, how could we appreciate the sweet?

 

We only learn and grow from bad experiences. I am grateful that even though i know the world is crumbling i have my faith as a north star, constant and unwavering. Even if i die, I know it is only really the beginning of another journey. An even better one.

[Apex]

RecordProducer - Many "religious" people are hypocrites, just like many atheists have high moral values.

 

Because “religious” people and atheists are both human, they have the same capacity for evil and foolishness therefore

Many “religious” people are hypocrites, just like many atheists are hypocrites.

 

RecordProducer - And some people were influenced by their parents to accept certain religion.

 

Should I look down on people who are influenced by friends, pop culture, drugs, New Age paganism, etc.?

You should make a list of all of your original ideas.

 

Dukkha - Or perhaps the anger is a sign of your doubts?

 

Perhaps the anger is a symptom of frustration, which can result from dealing with generally prideful people.

 

Strato33150 - yeh true if they dnt believe in god then they should not b bitchin, usually i get in a atheist mood when i pissed off, and blame every in god, and say **** liek "y does he bring terror to teh world and ****" but i think those ppl of blame god for s*** that goes on in the world,usually have issues

 

I’m thinking about the movie Team America: World Police.

There are three types of people.

What does the a-hole do?

[HotCaliGirl]

Man has worshipped a, "Higher Being", since the dawn of time, plain and simple.

Peolple have worshiped the sun, animals, statues - you name it, most likely at one time it had been worshipped, and whichever group had(has) more muscle, they would force another group to worhsip their higher-being-of-the-day.

[Outcast]

Noone has yet stated that these are the last days, full of wars, hurricanes, tsunami's, bombs, broken families, corrupt government, all prophesied of in scripture.

 

That would be because only some people believe this. Others believe that Revelations is a set of apocryphal tales common to the Hebrew people told the way fables are told instead of a foretelling of the future. People who have never learned about history, geography, or sociology don't understand that

wars, hurricanes, tsunami's, bombs, broken families, corrupt government

have existed throughout time and have been worse during other eras than they are now. It's just they didn't have CNN back then so people weren't as aware of what was going on.

[ButtonPusher]

Perhaps the anger is a symptom of frustration, which can result from dealing with generally prideful people.

 

If asking questions of the accepted beliefs in the world, and expressing doubts is prideful then send me to burn in hell. A few hundred years ago, some people suggested that the world was not actually flat but was spherical. And also suggested that the world we know was not the centre of the universe as was believed at the time. You know what the church called these people at the time? Prideful sinners.

 

Others believe that Revelations is a set of apocryphal tales common to the Hebrew people told the way fables are told instead of a foretelling of the future. People who have never learned about history, geography, or sociology don't understand that

 

Also considering that historians now have evidence to suggest that the book of revelations was actually written in the fifth century, the contents of it should be taken with a truckload of salt.

[sugar-rae]

good post outcast

 

I have decided to just tell this friend that we have to agree to disagree. You cannot explain faith to someone. It is to the point where she hurts my feelings. She says that God is like Santa and people who believe are just weak and scared to die and believe so that death is not so scary. I cannot argue with her anymore. I know God has graced my life and I do not need to prove it to her.

 

She will always call me and ask questions like......why do religous people do this and that and then I explain where it comes from and she just says.....I do not understand and I end up getting mad and so does she. She says if a murderer can kill and is catholic and be forgiven in God's eyes??? She takes stuff to extremes. I had to explain to her about free will and she still does not understand my point.

 

I am not sure how to go about telling her I do not wnt to talk about it anymore. The type of person she is she will say.....see you hav no defense and that is why you will not tal kabout it...i can hear it already! ugh

 

 

I have found that Proverbs 4 is a good chapter to get some guidance from where aetheist, no-believers, doubters are concerned.

 

It may be hard, if you really care about your friend, but sometimes you have to just give up that friendship (for a while or maybe forever), for your soul's sake, if they are continually bringing your faith into question when you are around them.

 

Yes, you are supposed to witness, teach, talk with others about God's will and how we are supposed to live as stated in the Bible, but there's a point you have to get to when you have to just step back and say, "hey, I've done everything I can to tell this person about you, Lord. Now, you work in their heart."

 

You may "give up on them" , but you can still pray for them in your heart and think of them and love them. I think it's kind of like tough love, you know? Not looking at them like they're a disease and not worth being around. NO! Just let them know that you can't continue to deal with their putting down of your God, but you care for them and will pray for them.

[HotCaliGirl]

I have found that Proverbs 4 is a good chapter to get some guidance from where aetheist, no-believers, doubters are concerned.

 

It may be hard, if you really care about your friend, but sometimes you have to just give up that friendship (for a while or maybe forever), for your soul's sake, if they are continually bringing your faith into question when you are around them.

 

Yes, you are supposed to witness, teach, talk with others about God's will and how we are supposed to live as stated in the Bible, but there's a point you have to get to when you have to just step back and say, "hey, I've done everything I can to tell this person about you, Lord. Now, you work in their heart."

 

You may "give up on them" , but you can still pray for them in your heart and think of them and love them. I think it's kind of like tough love, you know? Not looking at them like they're a disease and not worth being around. NO! Just let them know that you can't continue to deal with their putting down of your God, but you care for them and will pray for them.

Well, if you're so religious and follow the bible, then you would know better than to continue to care for and pray for those who do not believe, because Proverb 1 states that those who do not listen to God's words, god laughs at their calamity, and when terror, distress or calamities come their way and they call out to him, he will not answer, they will seek him but not find him...how loving is that? my way or go to hell, don't bother me...so for you to still care and pray for those people, you are doing the opposite of what you are supposed to do and what God does to those people.

 

But should you ever suffer from distress, an atheist wouldn't turn their back to you just because you believe in something they don't believe in....that is so selfish, hypocritical and condescending to not respect someone elses beliefs (ex. if they believe God or organized religion is a waste of time) while expecting them to believe what you believe.

 

According to the Proverbs, the "loving" God says "I will laugh at your calamity, and mock when terror comes upon you....when trouble and distress come upon you, they shall call me but I will not answer." I'm not God (maybe) but I would not react that way if someone chose not to fear me, equating that to someone hating knowledge (as stated in the proverbs) just because they don't believe in what I believe/don't believe in... anyways...