I messed up...

[SadBoys410]

So I started talking to this girl (9/10 cutie forsure) and we could both tell there was something there for the other. We eventually went out to see a movie (let me know if you think it was a date) and get a drink (cafe, not bar) and go on a small walk but that’s not important, it’s the movie that was. During the movie we sat relatively close, but not holding hands close, and somethings happened, nothing too serious.

 

Things that happened were small like mayhaps missing the small bag of musk sticks we were sharing and accidentally putting my hand in her pocket for a split second before realising and quickly took it out, her getting scared at some parts where she would look away and therefore (here’s where I think I went wrong) getting a little bit closer to me. I would then come closer to be somewhat comforting but that wasn’t the issue. We finished the movie and walked to car park and my legs were a little sore (pussy, I know) so I sat on a little electrical box (to what I still think was her dismay as I sat down in front of her instead of sucking it up like a man so I’m aware I probably went wrong there but that was a small thing and not the prime issue) but i left after my ride came and that was that.

 

I was quite excited after that so I told my friends about it which is where I went wrong. I don’t remember word for word what I said but I do remember it being across the lines of “she was getting closer to me” and that (whilst writing this I think there was also a little game of Chinese whispers going on as someone said that I said “she was trying to hold my hand” so now that I think of it do believe there was a snake in the grass). The person I told must’ve went and told someone else who told her which is wear it went bad. She thought I was trying to say that she was coming on to me, which was wrong, and not that she was just getting scared at some points of the movie.

 

If anything I was the one that was stressing about making a move on her, something I didn’t do. After that I lied in that I said I didn’t tell anyone about our little afternoon. And then that was it, she said she believed me but I didn’t buy it. We stopped talking and there was a little bit of a shaky vibe around us, with her being mad and myself being more embarrassed than mad because I could only be mad at myself for losing the girl that made me happy no matter how hard I tried to persuade myself I was right. Fast forward about half a year and the bad blood was pretty much gone but we still didn’t really talk to eachother but more so to people whilst in eachother general vicinity.

 

We ended up on a camp together and at one point at night around a fire we made random eye contact (I want to say that maybe she still has feelings but I’d probably setting myself up for disappointment) but I brush it off as nothing. So now I get to the part I need help with.

 

I’m starting to miss her and develop feelings again. I want to start talking to her again (I still have her number provided she hasn’t blocked me, if not Instagram) but

a.) I don’t know how to

b.) I don’t know how she’d respond

c.) I don’t know whether or not to apologise

 

Thank you for taking the time to read and possibly help. It means a lot, really.

Edited November 3, 2018 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[PRW]

I would have to ask the ages of the two of you involved here, or at least an age group.

 

But until I know that information I will just have to respond as if I am dealing with people in their mid 20's who should be old enough to know what they are doing to an extent.

 

So I started talking to this girl (9/10 cutie forsure) and we could both tell there was something there for the other.

 

Don't pretend to be a mind reader. You have no idea what she was thinking. You are the one who thought "something was there" and then you projected that onto her resulting in you believing that is the what she was thinking.

 

We eventually went out to see a movie (let me know if you think it was a date)

No it wasn't a real date. It was an imitation date, a sudo date, but not a real date. In a real date you come up with the dating plan, you then offer the date to her as an opportunity for her to spend time with you, and then you show up and lead her through the date.

 

Much of the rest of this is obsessive concern over petty meaningless things. This shows a high amount of insecurity and lack of experience. However if I an dealing with someone younger then it isn't so bad. I don't expect teenagers to do much better than this. The teen years are when you are supposed to be screwing up and worrying about every little petty thing.

 

We ended up on a camp together and at one point at night around a fire we made random eye contact

That is like saying "I accidentally stepped on a blade of grass". Everyone makes random eye contact,...it means nothing. She would have made eye contact with every one there,...some of them more intense than with you.

 

I want to say that maybe she still has feelings

You are "projecting" again.

 

I’m starting to miss her and develop feelings again.

You miss the fantasy you have created in your mind.

 

I want to start talking to her again (I still have her number provided she hasn’t blocked me, if not Instagram) but

a.) I don’t know how to

b.) I don’t know how she’d respond

c.) I don’t know whether or not to apologise

 

Let me cover them in the reverse.

 

c.) That is ridicules. There is nothing to apologize for. Even thinking that shows weakness. You apologize for serious offenses. Casual things like bumping into someone in the hallway you just simply give a quick " 'sorry" and keep walking. All other petty stuff you ignore and move on unless they make a point of challenging you on it (which they never will).

 

b.) No one ever knows how someone will respond. It is meaningless. You move forward with the assumption that people are going to respond in your favor, and if they don't you continue to move forward, leaving them behind, and onward to whatever is in front of you.

 

a.) Yes, this is the root of your problem. You just don't know what you are doing. Either because you are too young and haven't learned it yet, or you are older and for whatever reason just haven't caught on. Every man starts out not knowing what he is doing, but eventually you stop falling off the bike and start racing the bike. But for now you are falling off the bike and wobbling around.

 

I could write a book on this (some have), but I'll just say a few things.

 

You are treating the girl as a "goddess" that you have to somehow please so you can be treated with her presence. She's the leader, she is in control, she holds all the cards. You need to end that mentality now,...right now. Women become disgusted with that kind of behavor very quickly and move on to the "bad boy" who at least projects confidence, leadership, and worthiness (even if it is a fraud).

 

You must get a grip on yourself as a person and as a man. Learn to be the leader in your life. Understand that you are the one offering the opportunity to the girl, that you are already assumed to be worthy of her time and that you are judging her to see if she is worth your time. If she doesn't accept the opportunity you offer her then the next one will. You must have the mentality that you are complete and that you are offering to share that completeness with her,...but instead you are acting like you want her to make you complete (bad).

[SadBoys410]

Hey cheers for replying so quickly (thought it would take ages)

 

We’re both 16 so you’re correct in saying that I have no experience so please forgive me.

 

As for the date debate I didn’t think so either but someone thought they’d consider it a date which is why I was interested.

 

For the “fantasy I created in my mind” I’m not entirely sure what you mean but if it means that we weren’t spending time together and texting every night then I’d have to say that we actually were but if you thought I was overthinking it that you’re probably not far from wrong.

 

About when “something was there”, I was fairly certain after a friend of hers told me that she wouldn’t say no to a relationship with me which is where I got my hunch from (but you never know she could’ve been lying)

 

When saying that I shouldn’t apologise for what I said, she was quite upset about it so I felt obliged to when she was pissed off

 

Thanks again for the response

[PRW]

We’re both 16 so you’re correct in saying that I have no experience so please forgive me.

 

For the “fantasy I created in my mind” I’m not entirely sure what you mean

 

At 16 then I'd say things went as I would expect. The cautions I gave are still valid, but I would expect the mistakes made to have been made. The fantasy in your mind would be all the daydreams and imaginations that a guy builds up about the girl,...then the guy gets attached to those things in their mind and miss them when things don't work out. Everyone does it or did it, including me. It is amazing the alternate realities we can create in our minds.

 

If you at 16 could get a leg up on things now rather than in your 40's and early 50's like I did you'll have a lot more successful life. I strongly recommend Corey Wayne's book, "How to be a 3% Man". It should be easy to find online. It was a life changing experience for me. I don't agree with his views on sexual morality, but he is spot on with everything else. The main thing for you is to learn the differences in how men and woman think, differences in how they function, and how to get your own personal life on track and keep it there. The book is a self-improvement book for men, but within a dating & relationship context. However you will find that what you learn in it will affect all parts of your life,...friendships, getting through school, your future work life, etc. Corey Wayne has a YouTube channel too that shouldn't be hard to find at all.

Edited October 30, 2018 by PRW

[elaine567]

"A gentleman never tells"

[SadBoys410]

If you at 16 could get a leg up on things now rather than in your 40's and early 50's like I did you'll have a lot more successful life. I strongly recommend Corey Wayne's book, "How to be a 3% Man". It should be easy to find online. It was a life changing experience for me. I don't agree with his views on sexual morality, but he is spot on with everything else. The main thing for you is to learn the differences in how men and woman think, differences in how they function, and how to get your own personal life on track and keep it there. The book is a self-improvement book for men, but within a dating & relationship context. However you will find that what you learn in it will affect all parts of your life,...friendships, getting through school, your future work life, etc. Corey Wayne has a YouTube channel too that shouldn't be hard to find at all.

 

Yeah I’ll take a look into the book just now thanks for that. Since I’m quite an amateur and have no experience, what do you suggest I do next? Do I try go for her again and rebuild something? Or should I just move on?

[Garcon1986]

You can give her a simple "let me know if you want to hang out for a second date". And then let it sit in her court. If she can't give you a straight respectful answer, then move on. Learn to wait for her response and not bite your fingernails all night, wondering what she is thinking. If she doesn't, she just another fish in the pond. You need to adopt the mentality that you are a freaking killer whale in the ocean looking for another killer whale. You don't date just any old little dolphin.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I sorely wish I was in your situation right now, as a 32 year old - I wish I was 16 again and making these dating mistakes. My family brought me up to avoid it like the plague until I was older. Bad mistake. You are doing right by your manhood to try your best to date effectively now (as long as you don't abandon your man building responsibilities like education/ job/ etc).

[PRW]

Yeah I’ll take a look into the book just now thanks for that. Since I’m quite an amateur and have no experience, what do you suggest I do next? Do I try go for her again and rebuild something? Or should I just move on?

 

Well get started on the book. You could read through the whole thing in a few sittings,...so that is my first suggestion.

 

Then I can give you some thoughts, some principles to understand.

 

If you want to give it a shot again with her, fine, go ahead. Just look at it as "practice", if you screw it up just move on to the next one. At 16 you probably won't remember who this girl was in 3 years anyway. You get better at things by practice, the more girls you date, the better you get at it and the more comfortable you are, you are no longer peeing down your leg about it.

 

So...Present a date as a offer, not a question. You are to see it as offering her an opportunity to spend time with you, not the other way around. An offer you are in control, a question she is in control. It is the difference between "Would you like to blah blah" (question) as opposed to "Hey, lets' go do blah blah" (offer). The date must be a specific time/day/place. If it doesn't jive with her calendar and if she truly wants to spend time with you she will make a counter offer (think of it as a test of her interest level in you). If there is a calendar issue and she does NOT make a counter offer then just say, "Ok, maybe another time then" and walk away. Don't approach her about it again unless she initiates.

 

Do not make dates with groups until the two of you become exclusive BF/GF. If you don't heed that, doing dates with a group of people will prevent her from bonding with you, and the other guys in the group will just become "cock-blockers" anyway. That doesn't mean you can't both be with a group of people at the same time,...I'm just saying to not treat that as a date,...a date is a specific thing that is private for the two of you.

 

Now I have an outline that I have prewritten that covers the process from first meeting the girl to the point where you become exclusive. It ENDS where exclusivity begins,...that means everything the outline recommends is concerning a woman/girl who is NOT your girlfriend yet. The time frames may happen sooner because we are dealing with 16yo's instead of adults who generally move a bit slower. No one is going to twist your arm out of socket if you don't follow it,...but I strongly recommend you follow it below.

 

 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Phase One – a few weeks to a month long

 

It begins when the guy offers a girl a specific date once a week and sets the date for a week away. You are making her an offer, present it that way like you know what you are doing. Plan it out ahead of time so you already know what you are offering. A good pattern is ask on Monday or Tues for a weekend date. No “fuzzy” dates! She needs a specific time/day/place. If you hit a day she can’t do it and she actually wants to spend time with you she will give you a counter offer or at least let you know in some way that it is ok to try again later. If she does neither of those then she probably isn’t into you. A compromise option would be to ask her when she is free to get together then offer a specific time/day/place.

 

No chit-chatting, texting/calling between setting the date and arriving on the date, but if she contacts you then be nice, pleasant, friendly, chat with her a bit, but keep it short. This is important to build anticipation for the date so both parties are excited to see each other when they arrive. It demonstrates integrity of both parties when they actually show up for the date without needing to be reassuring each other leading up to it. It eliminates either party from saying something stupid in a text or phone call to weaken the other’s attraction to them before they even make it to the date or maybe causing the date to be canceled or at minimum cause the other to be half-hearted about it. It is needy, insecure, and impatient people on both sides that think they need to maintain chit-chat leading up to the date or the other one might forget about them and not show up.

 

No expensive dates, no exuberant dates, no long trips, no weekend trips, no vacation trips, no meeting family/friends. Guy pays for the date. Get over it. Maybe the woman can pick up the tip if she wants. Guys, keep it happy, fun, and light hearted. No heavy subjects. Guys, what a woman remembers about a date are different than you remember. She remembers how you made her feel. So make sure she always thinks of happy feelings and fun when she thinks of you.

 

Do not bring up any labels what-so-ever, such as boyfriend, girlfriend, relationship, marriage, love, or anything else along those lines. At this point you are not her boyfriend and she is not your girlfriend. That is her job to bring that stuff up when she is ready,…not your job. You both still need to understand that you have the freedom to see other people at the same time, even if you don’t choose to act on it,…it is a frame of mind you both need to have.

 

Rinse and repeat, over and over each week or so, but not more than once a week at this early point. Show some discipline.

 

Phase Two – a few more weeks long to a couple months

 

After a few weeks if you haven’t made mistakes the woman will start to contact you in between the dates. This is your cue to set the next date. This shifts some of the power over to the woman. Earlier the guy did all the chasing and setting the date. But now the dates happen each time the woman contacts you which gives her control of the frequency. You are both now sharing in the process. This means to an extent that the dates are her idea and if she is chasing you then she isn't dumping you. It also means that you may now potentially see each other more than once a week. But don’t get carried away, still show some discipline. The rest of this phase is about the same as phase one.

 

Minimal chit-chatting, texting/calling between setting the date and arriving on the date. You can do a little more at this point because she is reaching out to you, but the principle is still the same, so keep it to a minimum.

 

As earlier, no expensive dates, no exuberant dates, no long trips, no weekend trips, no vacation trips, no meeting family/friends. Guy pays for the date. Maybe the woman can pick up the tip if she wants. Again, keep it happy, fun, and light hearted. No heavy subjects. Guys, what a woman remembers about a date are different than you remember. She remembers how you made her feel. So make sure she always thinks of happy feelings and fun when she thinks of you.

 

Still you do not bring up any labels what-so-ever, such as boyfriend, girlfriend, relationship, marriage, love, or anything else along those lines. At this point you still are not her boyfriend and she still is not your girlfriend. That is her job to bring that stuff up when she is ready,…not your job. You both still need to understand that you have the freedom to see other people at the same time, even if you don’t choose to act on it,…it is a frame of mind you both need to have.

 

Phase 3 – Lasts until you breakup, co-habitate, get married, or she runs over you with the car

 

If you haven’t made a bunch of mistakes and discouraged her, on average at around 7-8 weeks (maybe longer if you made mistakes) the woman may bring up the exclusivity conversation. She may be vague about it, so you might have to question a little to be sure if that is what she is saying she wants. If that is what she wants, and if you agree to it then you are now finally boyfriend/girlfriend and will need to drop off any others that you both may be seeing.

 

Even after exclusivity happens you still have to keep your head screwed on straight and don't forget what got you to where you are. You still have to show discipline, emotional control and impulse control. Although women may claim they like someone who is a bit impulsive, erratic impulsiveness is not attractive and sometimes just flat scares the crap out of them.

Edited October 30, 2018 by PRW

[SadBoys410]

Well get started on the book. You could read through the whole thing in a few sittings,...so that is my first suggestion.

 

Then I can give you some thoughts, some principles to understand.

 

If you want to give it a shot again with her, fine, go ahead. Just look at it as "practice", if you screw it up just move on to the next one. At 16 you probably won't remember who this girl was in 3 years anyway. You get better at things by practice, the more girls you date, the better you get at it and the more comfortable you are, you are no longer peeing down your leg about it.

<SNIP>

 

Everything you’ve said here looks and sounds to be so valid I value your time writing this. What I’m going to do today is ask her if I she is very tonight so I can call her and get everything sorted.

 

Everything you wrote about not doing group dates because ‘cock blockers’ ive always had at the back of my head so it’s great to see that it is worthy of being noted even in the future.

 

I’ll update with how I go. Thanks!

Edited November 3, 2018 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[SadBoys410]

Hey so it’s been a couple days so I’ll update on what’s happened

 

So in person I told her that I would like to speak to her over the phone to which she responded that she doesn’t like the sound of the voice through phone and that should prefer to text so after that I forgot about it for a bit and try to distract myself with chores and study. Eventually at 8 PM I message to asking if she was free to talk. She was asleep at the time and apologised at six in the morning. I only saw this after school so decided to wait a little longer until I thought should be free stand I studied until 6. I told her I ****ed up to which she told me that I didn’t? I don’t know if she was trying to forget about our issue. She said that all she remembers is that we drifted and stopped talking. I played along with this and said “that’s what I hate and I was so selfish” I also told her that I had been doing a lot of thinking and that I Missed her and the daily conversations we’d have to which she replied “it was nice” (does this show her being uninterested? Or was she missing me as much as I missed her?). So I told her that I was dumb for losing someone like her and I haven’t felt comfortable around someone like her. She thought that was nice and called me sweet for it. But you stopped me there because she is “in a really good place in her life at the moment and her schedule has been jam packed for the past couple of months and will be for quite a while. but it would be great if those convos could continue????” Which I guess was nice to hear. That night everything was like it used to be and we takes for a bit before she went to bed. And since then we have been talking like we used to so I’m going to try make it a daily thing unless I’m always making first contact.

 

Thanks for everything everybody but I think I’ll take it from here (other than the questions asked in this post). I appreciate your time

 

Until next time,

Matt

[PRW]

You did a lot wrong in the lines below. But as I said, I expect that at this point of being a 16yo kid. I'll point them out but it is basically this whole "apologizing" thing is just really really bad. Your approach is backwards in that instead of treating it like you are giving the girl an opportunity to be with you,...you are instead groveling for her to give you an opportunity to be with her.

 

So in person I told her that I would like to speak to her over the phone to which she responded that she doesn’t like the sound of the voice through phone and that should prefer to text

She is just saying she doesn't want to talk to you.

 

Eventually at 8 PM I message to asking if she was free to talk. She was asleep at the time and apologised at six in the morning.

Doubtful she was asleep at 8pm. She just ignored you.

 

I told her I ****ed up to which she told me that I didn’t?

This "weak" apologizing non-sense has to end, even she said she doesn't understand what you are apologizing for.

 

I don’t know if she was trying to forget about our issue.

You don't have an issue.

 

She said that all she remembers is that we drifted and stopped talking.

She is agreeing with me and says she wasn't aware of an "issue".

 

I played along with this and said “that’s what I hate and I was so selfish”

More "weak" apologizing. You need to end that,...totally the wrong frame of mind. Instead of acting like it is you giving her an opportunity to spend time with you and to demonstrate she is good for you,..you have it flipped around to where you are been trying to get her to give you a little piece of her time to you so that you can prove yourself to her.

 

I also told her that I had been doing a lot of thinking and that I Missed her and the daily conversations we’d have to which she replied “it was nice” (does this show her being uninterested? Or was she missing me as much as I missed her?).

More groveling.

No, she isn't interested.

She is soft pedaling you emotionally again to be "nice" like she would one of her girlfriends that might be upset about something.

 

So I told her that I was dumb for losing someone like her and I haven’t felt comfortable around someone like her. She thought that was nice and called me sweet for it.

More groveling and apologizing.

More soft pedaling your emotions by her again.

 

I understand you are young and just getting started in this, so...

 

So, bottom line:

1. Get the book I mentioned

2. Learn the right approach, yours is flipped backwards.

3. Stop the weak apologizing and groveling