Am I wrong to want to renegotiate the rent I'm paying my MIL after City inspection?

[Art_Critic]

I saw that you agreed to pay that amount, you AGREED to pay, is your word not worthy of believing ?

 

BTW, if you were to cut down on anything maybe learn how to save power, 500 a month for power and water seems a bit much.. maybe you can get her to chip in 50 a month towards the power ?

[bathtub-row]

-We both live in the garage, but I brought all of my stuff to my side of the garage. We can go into each other’s room any time. We spend most of the time on his side because he has the TV and all the electronics. He snores really loud so after we spend quality time and we’re ready for sleep, I often end up going to my side. I have a bed of my own for this purpose, which I also brought back from my studio.

 

-I pay $250/month as rent. He pays the water and power bill for the whole house, which is about $400-$500 a month. So yeah, on bad months he pays what I pay. Plus the additional random help she needs, such as money for groceries that he doesn’t even eat, or for his sister’s college.

 

-He said if my mother-in-law pushes me out of my half of the garage, I’ll have to stay in his half, and he knows I can’t sleep with him on most nights.

 

SO... you are saying I am right to want lower rent than it already is now that I won’t even have my own restroom... but can’t negotiate it because my husband didn’t seem supportive about it? How do I address that imbalance of priorities in his part? What would you do?

 

Wow. I didn’t know about this. Hate to tell you but that is one screwed up situation. On top of everything, it sounds like you don’t like your husband very much. For the life of me, I don’t know why you’re there.

[d0nnivain]

I agree with you. What you said about not haggling over $250. But the part about her needing help.... it’s not that. It’s that she doesn’t know how to be frugal. She says she needs help all while going to casinos and buying expensive gifts when she goes to a family party to keep up appearances. That’s what angers me. I was thinking if I pay her less she could start getting used to making wiser choices about money.

 

I have a MIL like this. . . no financial discipline & makes the worst decisions. Our situation is a bit different. We own the house & she lives there. We live elsewhere.

 

A garage is not living space. There are valid reasons for this including safety & making sure that marginal people don't end up in substandard living situations.

 

If your MIL can't manage on her own, you have to accept the fact that you will probably always end up in a blended household situation. It may be best if all of the adults sit down & have a frank discussion about money & budgets. I would get some estimates to find out how much it would cost to convert the garage into valid legal living space. I would also look around for a 2 family house or something with an in-law suite. If you sell the present house & use that for a down payment, have MIL pay what she is paying now & you & your husband pay the difference everybody ends up with their own space & bathroom but you get equity.

[Artdeco]

You are actually living in somebody’s garage? How do you live like that? And also, if it’s illegal, it’s illegal, the law is the law, hence you have a good reason to change the situation, without having to explain anything to the MIL. I’m sure she can make an additional 250 a month somehow, without you having to pay her. Unless you enjoy living in her garage, I think you should move out. That’s no way to live.

[jennyjen]

She's not paying taxes on your rent. So, assume a 30% tax rate. Offer her $175 instead of what you're paying now. It's about what she'd end up with if she had to pay tax on it.

 

And it sounds really logical. . Good luck!

 

Thank you! I completely agree and I think that is what I will most likely do after I try to analyze everyone's replies. But I really do agree with you the most.

[jennyjen]

I would tell my husband that I don't want to be living in an illegal garage any more and if he doesn't do something about it then I will be finding a proper, legal residence without him.

 

Yes, that's what will eventually happen, but I am not emotionally ready for that kind of ultimatum yet. That's why in the meantime, since I'm staying for him, I thought I should pay less now that we won't have a restroom of our own.

[jennyjen]

I saw that you agreed to pay that amount, you AGREED to pay, is your word not worthy of believing ?

 

BTW, if you were to cut down on anything maybe learn how to save power, 500 a month for power and water seems a bit much.. maybe you can get her to chip in 50 a month towards the power ?

 

I read both of your replies. Thank my lucky stars she ALLOWS us to live here? She PREFERS it! She always says she's afraid of living alone with her daughter and that she can't make it alone. She would be able to if she learned to budget her money. I wish she didn't "allow" us, then my husband and I would've HAD to get a place of our own, which has been my wish since the beginning.

 

About cutting down to save power-- you are preaching to the choir. I come from a family where you have to be super careful to turn off all lights if you're not in that room, and take quick showers. I am USED to that and learned to PREFER that. When I moved in here I was the one who felt horrified by how his sister and mom would leave the fans on all day even when nobody is home just to have air to walk into when they get home. Or be careless about leaving lights on when nobody is in the room. I was the one turning everyone's lights off. I would talk to my husband all the time about talking to their family about that so that he doesn't have to pay so much. He would say that he doesn't like to be measuring what people use, that it's okay, he pays for it. When I got annoying he told me it's his money. I stopped caring since and now I've even picked up some of those habits myself since he said he doesn't care, he has the money to pay a huge bill. It's bad, I know.

[jennyjen]

Wow. I didn’t know about this. Hate to tell you but that is one screwed up situation. On top of everything, it sounds like you don’t like your husband very much. For the life of me, I don’t know why you’re there.

 

I love my husband or it would be way easier to just pick up my stuff and leave. We've only been married for a year and a half, so I don't want to give up yet. Things are good otherwise. He's a great listener, he's kind. It's just the living situation.

[jennyjen]

I have a MIL like this. . . no financial discipline & makes the worst decisions. Our situation is a bit different. We own the house & she lives there. We live elsewhere.

 

A garage is not living space. There are valid reasons for this including safety & making sure that marginal people don't end up in substandard living situations.

 

If your MIL can't manage on her own, you have to accept the fact that you will probably always end up in a blended household situation. It may be best if all of the adults sit down & have a frank discussion about money & budgets. I would get some estimates to find out how much it would cost to convert the garage into valid legal living space. I would also look around for a 2 family house or something with an in-law suite. If you sell the present house & use that for a down payment, have MIL pay what she is paying now & you & your husband pay the difference everybody ends up with their own space & bathroom but you get equity.

 

Well, it's her house. My husband's name is not on it, so we can't just decide to sell it. Whenever something breaks down in the house, her trick to get my husband to help is to stress out and complain about how hard it is to own a house, that she's going to sell it. For me, that tactic has the opposite effect. I would tell her, "Do what you need to do." He has put a lot of money into this house, and in the end she is most likely going to sell it when it's time to retire. It's what she has said she wants to do. That's another reason I see no point in all this help. He says he's hoping that when she sells it, MAYBE she'll give him a good portion of the money since he's helped a lot, but that is no way to make an investment. I would need to talk directly, but they're terrible at talking. They don't communicate about anything serious, they only talk in jokes. Plus, they're both of the mentality that you should enjoy your money, and live grand. My husband CANNOT hold on to money for the life of him. He will either spend it on fun for us or give it to his money or spend it on an expensive toy. Out of all those options, I'd rather it go to our fun, since it's not going to stay with him anyway. But in my ideal world we would be saving like crazy and do something fun only once a month.

[jennyjen]

You are actually living in somebody’s garage? How do you live like that? And also, if it’s illegal, it’s illegal, the law is the law, hence you have a good reason to change the situation, without having to explain anything to the MIL. I’m sure she can make an additional 250 a month somehow, without you having to pay her. Unless you enjoy living in her garage, I think you should move out. That’s no way to live.

 

No, of course I don't enjoy it. I guess I'm low maintenance and I don't mind it too much, especially since I had my own bathroom. Now that I will have to share with the rest of the family, everyone getting ready in the morning, that might get hectic. That's why I'm thinking this way now. She has her own business cleaning houses, and she likes to get paid half of her salary cash so she doesn't report it. And me, I have to pay her cash so she doesn't report that too. When I told my husband this, he saw it as me using this situation as a way to use a scare tactic to get out of paying rent. That's probably why he also used the scare tactic that she can rent it to someone else. And no, not at all. I am not using it as a scare tactic, but only what feels fair to me, and I feel this way only because the City asked that she remove the restroom in the back.

[d0nnivain]

Alas this is why finances end many marriages. You married into the Peter Pan fantasy . . . all fun & games with no responsibility. If your husband won't cede control to you, there may be little you can do. His idea that mommy will give him a few bucks when she sells the house is pie in the sky. Your MIL thinks her son owes her all that work because she birthed him.

 

Without him on your side, I fear this issue will torpedo your marriage. Give it your best shot to get them to see reason. I would bring some local listings to the discussion & have a spread sheet with the #s. Show them both how they can make more money if they do what you are asking & get a real 2 family or properly & legally fix up the garage with a bathroom. Adding a bathroom is one of the best ways to increase the value of any house.

[Art_Critic]

I love my husband or it would be way easier to just pick up my stuff and leave. We've only been married for a year and a half, so I don't want to give up yet. Things are good otherwise. He's a great listener, he's kind. It's just the living situation.

 

It sounds like you need to say this to your husband...let him know if things don't change you will enact some change

[jennyjen]

It sounds like you need to say this to your husband...let him know if things don't change you will enact some change

 

Yes, but I don't want to be setting ultimatums just yet. I want to see what happens on its own for now. If this continues, yes, I will have to do that.

[bathtub-row]

Yes, but I don't want to be setting ultimatums just yet. I want to see what happens on its own for now. If this continues, yes, I will have to do that.

 

It's too bad that it has to come to ultimatums. The two of you should be able to talk about this and come to a solution together. Your relationship is about the two of you; it doesn't involve you, him and his mom.

[CC12]

Yes, but I don't want to be setting ultimatums just yet. I want to see what happens on its own for now. If this continues, yes, I will have to do that.

 

Why do you feel that you have to issue an ultimatum? Can you not just have a mature conversation with your husband and have him listen and respect your feelings and try to make you happy? No? This is the bigger problem, then, not how much rent you're paying.

 

I was thinking if I pay her less she could start getting used to making wiser choices about money.

 

Nope, you giving her less money is not going to magically make her smarter about money.

 

How about this - instead of paying her rent, negotiate to use that money to renovate the garage and get it up to code so that it's a legitimate rental. Your husband will have to agree that he can't help with groceries or sister's college expenses - that money will go toward the renovation instead. "Sorry, we don't have extra money to give because we had to buy a bathroom sink." This is a way that your husband can help his mom and get you guys out of that ****ty living situation. Once the rental is legal, you two can move out and mom can get another renter in there for the cash. But this plan relies on your husband getting on the same page as you and committing to stop giving her money that she spends irresponsibly, and it requires your husband to also stop spending irresponsibly himself.

 

By the way, little sister's college education is not your husband's financial responsibility. She can fund her own tuition, AND contribute to the household expenses while she's living at mom's. Lots of people pay for their own schooling and their own living expenses at the same time.

[bathtub-row]

How about this - instead of paying her rent, negotiate to use that money to renovate the garage and get it up to code so that it's a legitimate rental.

 

It’s my understanding that she was saying that it’s not legal in CA to convert the garage into a living space. Maybe I misunderstood but that’s what I got out of what she was saying.

Edited October 31, 2018 by bathtub-row

[d0nnivain]

It’s my understanding that she was saying that it’s not legal in CA to convert the garage into a living space. Maybe I misunderstood but that’s what I got out of what she was saying.

 

No. In it's present setting -- not formally converted -- not the right insulation, not the right fire protection, not the right # of electrical outlets & in the absence of a permit from the city with contractors & inspectors it's not presently legal. That is why I suggested that she & her husband convince MIL to try to do the conversion the right way. But it seems MIL also likes to cut corners & avoid paying taxes on her income (cash only ) & this rent money (more cash).

[bathtub-row]

No. In it's present setting -- not formally converted -- not the right insulation, not the right fire protection, not the right # of electrical outlets & in the absence of a permit from the city with contractors & inspectors it's not presently legal. That is why I suggested that she & her husband convince MIL to try to do the conversion the right way. But it seems MIL also likes to cut corners & avoid paying taxes on her income (cash only ) & this rent money (more cash).

 

Oh, I see. Well, I take back my previous rant about CA then. I made the assumption that they were living in a livable space.

[d0nnivain]

Oh, I see. Well, I take back my previous rant about CA then. I made the assumption that they were living in a livable space.

 

I don't know any of that for sure but when the inspector came that was my take, that they had illegally converted the garage on the sly without asking permission in the form of permits & filing fees etc. I doubt it was grossly substandard but there are probably some issues.

[preraph]

Most municipalities have to have rules about that. No one wants to not be able to get down the street because there's so many cars that you can't get through. I just think it would be worth maybe paying her $150 a month and moving out and just helping her with the hundred $50 a month. Is she completely unable to work or what?

[jennyjen]

It’s my understanding that she was saying that it’s not legal in CA to convert the garage into a living space. Maybe I misunderstood but that’s what I got out of what she was saying.

 

Sorry, I didn't clarify this.... it USED to be illegal, but a new law passed that makes it legal with the right permits. The thing is she did this many years ago when it was illegal. If the inspector had caught it, she would've ordered to tear it down and do it with the right permits. The thing is, we moved out for a day and filled the two little rooms with junk to make it look like storage. We're good for now. However, they did see the restroom a few feet away from the garage, and that will have to go.

[jennyjen]

I don't know any of that for sure but when the inspector came that was my take, that they had illegally converted the garage on the sly without asking permission in the form of permits & filing fees etc. I doubt it was grossly substandard but there are probably some issues.

 

Yeah, we played it so well that we made the garage look like storage. We had to move the beds and we went to my mom's for a day. They didn't say anything about the garage, only about the restroom which was hard to hide, lol.

[jennyjen]

Most municipalities have to have rules about that. No one wants to not be able to get down the street because there's so many cars that you can't get through. I just think it would be worth maybe paying her $150 a month and moving out and just helping her with the hundred $50 a month. Is she completely unable to work or what?

 

Yeah, I think that's what I will suggest. I will have to talk to her either tonight or tomorrow. It can't go beyond the first because that's when I always give her the money, right on the first. She has her own business. She always brags about being an independent woman, having her own business, her own house, yet somehow she always needs someone to help. She cleans houses, but still, it's her own cleaning business.

[jennyjen]

Why do you feel that you have to issue an ultimatum? Can you not just have a mature conversation with your husband and have him listen and respect your feelings and try to make you happy? No? This is the bigger problem, then, not how much rent you're paying.

 

 

 

Nope, you giving her less money is not going to magically make her smarter about money.

 

How about this - instead of paying her rent, negotiate to use that money to renovate the garage and get it up to code so that it's a legitimate rental. Your husband will have to agree that he can't help with groceries or sister's college expenses - that money will go toward the renovation instead. "Sorry, we don't have extra money to give because we had to buy a bathroom sink." This is a way that your husband can help his mom and get you guys out of that ****ty living situation. Once the rental is legal, you two can move out and mom can get another renter in there for the cash. But this plan relies on your husband getting on the same page as you and committing to stop giving her money that she spends irresponsibly, and it requires your husband to also stop spending irresponsibly himself.

 

By the way, little sister's college education is not your husband's financial responsibility. She can fund her own tuition, AND contribute to the household expenses while she's living at mom's. Lots of people pay for their own schooling and their own living expenses at the same time.

 

I've talked to him about this SO MANY TIMES. Calm, adult conversations. But he just can't help helping! His reasoning is that if the money stays with him, he will spend it stupidly on beer or something else, so he'd rather give it when they ask because they need it. I told him the exact same thing about his sister, and he says he feels bad because he loves her, he saw her as a baby, feels bad that his dad cut her off when she turned 18 (wise man!). But this same dad bought her a car at 17 that she angrily turned down because it's not a nice or new car. I wouldn't help someone like that. We've talked about this so many times. At best, he'll agree that his own family just see him as an ATM, that when they talk to him it's usually to ask for something, but that he just can't help it. At worse, he tells me to back off, that it's his money, that he'll never ask me to help them. What can I say to that? Then he says my mom also asks me for help-- an idiotic argument, because it's NEVER financial help! She'll ask for help on writing something, or something to do with Facebook. He just doesn't know what to retort.

[jennyjen]

It's too bad that it has to come to ultimatums. The two of you should be able to talk about this and come to a solution together. Your relationship is about the two of you; it doesn't involve you, him and his mom.

 

I so agree with you, but the reason it has to involve his mom is because her constantly saying that she wouldn't make it without him is the reason we have to stay. And the reason it would have to come down to an ultimatum when I feel ready to walk away with or without him is because we've had this conversation many times. At least he's more open about moving out than my ex-- my ex would just say no and to just learn to play the game (get along with family). My current family is much nicer in almost every way, and the mom way sweeter in her mode of manipulation, but manipulation nevertheless. And him, he's willing to move out when he feels the family will be okay, but no one really clarifies when or how that would be.