Men and Emotional Affairs

[MountainGirl111]

I agree with Art Critic. I don't think this is gender specific. It just depends on the person. I know plenty of men who are emotional and have emotional needs. Some have mental needs. Just because a man in interested in a woman doesn't mean he only wants to end up in the sack with her. I know plenty of folks who were very good friends male and female. Some ended up being physically intimate, but many don't and just stay very good friends. I try not to paint anyone into a corner. I've known "connection" with male musicians. Nothing physical at all, but musically a bit intimate at times. I just shake me head. It's not about sex. It's about music. Maybe there is some chemistry there, but again, it's about music.

[Lotus_Luna]

From the sounds of this last post, it appears you've had several affairs with MM. Maybe this is his first and he just isn't willing to cross the physical boundaries. I'm guessing you are younger.

 

I just caution you about believing your value to him is what his is to you.

 

I haven’t had several affairs, I’ve been pursued. I turned them down. I do have honest male friends who’ve shared their experiences.

 

Those friends fell in love.

 

I’m only slightly younger, he is not a supervisor or anything. I’m self employed. Our personal and business loves overlap. I’ve known him several years and the affair has been on/off for almost 2.

 

He’s never pushed to be a PA, I have made moves. He does state an appreciation for what we share but I’m aware he’s not emotionally available.

[Chilli]

Again women using a mans ego as some crap when women have just as bigger egos and boy do they like some stroking , so yaknow.

So for a start , "everyone". likes to feel good and wanted and special with someone.

Yeah, the guilt kills you , but that would also depend on how you were treated at home , some women deserve him to go somewhere else and some men to l guess.

And yep, just like with women, it can become very addictive.

Figuring it all out and wth is happening can also be really really confusing and feelings can be everywhere.

Edited November 3, 2018 by Chilli

[Lotus_Luna]

It seems most men want to say it’s about one thing and women another.

 

That breakdown is interesting to me.

 

I would assume that guilt creates the push/pull dynamic.

 

 

I didn’t have guilt, he said he didn’t but his actions speak otherwise

[Dissapointing]

I was married for over 15 years before my EM began. Everything I read tells me that what I felt was not love but everything I felt told me differently, we were amazing friends who were both going though tough times in our marriage and found companionship in each other. My W and I were very close with her and her family which created easy opportunities for us to hang out in a group. We began texting and then chatting over an app and what was just a friendship turned in to a lot more. It never got physical but I’m sure it would have eventually.

 

Is their guilt? Yes, a great deal. I have damaged my marriage, ruined my friendship with the OW, her H and her kids. I now have to try to rebuild my marriage and find out if the guy I used to be still exists

 

Was I addicted? Yes, a great deal. She initiated NC after D Day and it’s been about 5 months. It’s awful. I have the urge to contact her every day but I haven’t for multiple reasons. One thing that has helped is that I have an email that her H sent when he found out letting me know exactly what he thinks of me and big of a piece of trash I am...I read that email every time I come close to contacting her. It’s a good reminder of the mess I made.

 

How do I proceed? I don’t know. I have battled depression and suicidal thoughts for years now and this has only increased them. I have never cost so many people so much by my actions. The worst part is that I still miss talking to her and the connection we had. Every day is a fight. I do know that I’m very lucky to have a forgiving wife who I love and will fight to keep. I assume that the OW has gotten over this long before I will but I feel like I deserve every bit of pain and hurt I have right now.

Edited November 3, 2018 by Dissapointing

[Lotus_Luna]

I was married for over 15 years before my EM began. Everything I read tells me that what I felt was not love but everything I felt told me differently, we were amazing friends who were both going though tough times in our marriage and found companionship in each other. My W and I were very close with her and her family which created easy opportunities for us to hang out in a group. We began texting and then chatting over an app and what was just a friendship turned in to a lot more. It never got physical but I’m sure it would have eventually.

 

Is their guilt? Yes, a great deal. I have damaged my marriage, ruined my friendship with the OW, her H and her kids. I now have to try to rebuild my marriage and find out if the guy I used to be still exists

 

Was I addicted? Yes, a great deal. She initiated NC after D Day and it’s been about 5 months. It’s awful. I have the urge to contact her every day but I haven’t for multiple reasons. One thing that has helped is that I have an email that her H sent when he found out letting me know exactly what he thinks of me and big of a piece of trash I am...I read that email every time I come close to contacting her. It’s a good reminder of the mess I made.

 

How do I proceed? I don’t know. I have battled depression and suicidal thoughts for years now and this has only increased them. I have never cost so many people so much by my actions. The worst part is that I still miss talking to her and the connection we had. Every day is a fight. I do know that I’m very lucky to have a forgiving wife who I love and will fight to keep. I assume that the OW has gotten over this long before I will but I feel like I deserve every bit of pain and hurt I have right now.

 

I’m sure she’s having similar feelings. But if you really care for one another you have to break the cycle.

 

The OM does contact me. We go through NC, then something here or there and then one day his walls come down.

 

I feel used at times because of his indecisive nature, but because he’s using me sexually or anything. Just the fact he can’t figure out how he feels. He’s never said he loves me or anything.... I wouldn’t dare push that... I know I love him, it’s been years in the making and while he’s certainly imperfect I find his faults tolerable. It’s not just butterflies and excitement. It’s a warm calm when he is around. A feeling of security that allows me to grow and push myself to be better.

 

But the nature of the relationship still creates a toxic dynamic that’s a real mind ****. We both know it.

 

Moving on (with or without your spouse) is ultimately the best thing. Understanding why you had the affair and what parts of you need to be nurtured and developed.

[carhill]

Absolutely not what I'm saying. I'm saying that men rarely go outside of their primary relationship in search of emotional support and connections. We men simply don't require much in the way of emotional connections. Intimate connection yes, but the two are not the same

Generally agree. In my case, the exception, I told my wife that I felt emotionally abandoned and when that conversation went nowhere I told her fine, I'll get it somewhere else, and did. Having been around women for a lifetime and knowing their games and being emotionally intuitive from a young age, I had become a pro at the emotional part. Never had a sexual affair while in a relationship or while married.

 

Most men defined the saying my exW's former boyfriend used to opine, that all men need is helmet (euphemism for a blow job/sex) and a little understanding. His wife was pretty overbearing and when she tragically died it took him no time at all to hook up with her best friend and make another baby. The best friend, later new wife, gave him helmet and understanding. Were they a secret item while his wife was pregnant (fetus was killed too)? IDK. All I know was she wasn't around as much before his wife died as after and they did have a hot tub 'experience' the night of the funeral (we attended and knew them well so were there at the house). That's how life works.

 

After a long life and being around a lot of affairs I've noticed they're far more prevalent with the class which is inured to lifestyle. IMO, it's because their societal power gives them the freedom to be who they really are and also constrains them by their lifestyle and its importance. So they dabble with others. It's perfectly legal nearly everywhere, at least in the US. Ask any lawyer

[DKT3]

I agree with Art Critic. I don't think this is gender specific. It just depends on the person. I know plenty of men who are emotional and have emotional needs. Some have mental needs. Just because a man in interested in a woman doesn't mean he only wants to end up in the sack with her. I know plenty of folks who were very good friends male and female. Some ended up being physically intimate, but many don't and just stay very good friends. I try not to paint anyone into a corner. I've known "connection" with male musicians. Nothing physical at all, but musically a bit intimate at times. I just shake me head. It's not about sex. It's about music. Maybe there is some chemistry there, but again, it's about music.

 

I will give you a better example of how men and women are so different in terms of emotional needs. Look at prison culture. In female prisons the inmates set up foster families, complete with mothers fathers grandparents sisters and so on. Each woman in each role is there to emotionally support one another in that role. Nothing even remotely close to that happens in male prisons. that's not to say that some men in prison wouldn't like that, but it's clear that most women need that.

 

So no, we are not the same, our emotional needs are far different based greatly on gender.

 

Some men crave emotional support, Cahill is proof of that as he has stated. Others may want it but aren't comfortable admitting it so they dont look for it. Most simply don't need it, we haven't been conditioned to need it or desire it, maybe even worse had the need or desire forcibly suppressed as young boys.

[elaine567]

I will give you a better example of how men and women are so different in terms of emotional needs. Look at prison culture. In female prisons the inmates set up foster families, complete with mothers fathers grandparents sisters and so on. Each woman in each role is there to emotionally support one another in that role. Nothing even remotely close to that happens in male prisons. that's not to say that some men in prison wouldn't like that, but it's clear that most women need that.

 

So no, we are not the same, our emotional needs are far different based greatly on gender.

 

 

Is the difference due to biological gender or down to how society has shaped the roles over decades, centuries even millennia?

[carhill]

I have my opinion about society but that's running a bit afield of the thread so I'll pass on the inflammatory commentary. Anyway....

 

TBH, until running into LS over a decade ago, I'd never really run into people who discussed emotional affairs as a thing. Even to this day, MW's I know won't admit their behaviors in the emotional realm with a man are an 'affair' or 'infidelity'. The progression usually is 'we're just friends' to 'we're really good friends' to 'it'll never happen again' if and after they cross over into PA territory. That's how the mind works IME.

 

OTOH, when in an EA myself, I knew exactly what it was and didn't dismiss nor minimize it. We worked it openly in MC, something we were in when joining LS. Once I knew my caregiving charge was safe from financial attack by my wife, something my lawyer cautioned me about, we filed for D and outta there. That imperative was the only reason I stayed in the game and didn't divorce outright. Now I'd hit the D switch immediately. See ya. If not married, black hole. Like I was never there, no announcement nor negotiation.

 

I get some people like living in both the married and single lanes of life. Not me. Not even emotionally. I can thank my parents for that. Solid loving role models who didn't beat the emotions out of me, rather embraced all aspects of the child they brought to the world. Any sort of infidelity wasn't a part of their married for life world so any actions by myself in that way were totally on me. As parents, they did an excellent job.

[DKT3]

Is the difference due to biological gender or down to how society has shaped the roles over decades, centuries even millennia?

 

A combination of both but the majority is social norms. As men the expectations are that we be strong. Overly emotional young boys are not desirable by most parents both moms and dads, so its systematically suppressed. Ask yourself, how often have you been told, suck it up, be a man, men dont cry, quit being a baby? Now ask yourself how many times have you heard your brother, sons, nephews or other young boys or men told those things. I myself have been guilty of trying to "toughen up " my son as a young boy.

 

In a lord of the flies scenario who knows what the emotional status would be, I would expect similar in general, with maybe a higher percentage of young men with emotional needs matching those of women.

[Lotus_Luna]

IMO Men want or need the same emotional validation as women

 

But men FEAR the vulnerability it requires to ask for it.

 

They can’t fail, they can’t be weak, they can’t show they’re hurting.

 

This creates a distance between the two. And the way women and men naturally communicate may add fuel to the fire. She gets reactive when he vocalizes, so he stops talking.

 

I mean I can think of three men who had affairs and the wives had NO idea because they thought everything was perfect. There was a break down in communication.

[carhill]

Yeah, men who know men code take crap from their wives that'd get another guy on the slab. It's all that training to protect/serve women and 'take it like a man'.

 

The weird dichotomy, for me anyway, is how the same expression of vulnerability by the man, an essence to an emotional affair, normally would turn off women in droves if the guy was single. I noticed this as a married guy when going through marked vulnerability while caregiving. Married and single women were coming on to me, something never experienced prior. I mean, WTF? Maybe it's some female thing, empathy/sympathy/caretaking, IDK. I vividly remember one three cats and a mouse trip, now gone from LS's journal system, where even my exW's best friend, married herself, was alternatively grabbing my ass and soothing my forehead in her lap while I was crashed out in the back seat of the car. At that point I was just spent and didn't care nor really notice anymore. That lady had never done anything like that and I'd known her over ten years at that point. Crazy.

 

However, don't discount the guys that fake the emotional stuff to bed their marks. There's plenty of them out there. Classic manipulation. However, those situations either develop into a PA or end. The guy won't play the emotional game for long because he feels nothing and it's just an act.

 

Sometimes the winning move is not to play. Playing now and again can be fun and educational though

[DKT3]

IMO Men want or need the same emotional validation as women

 

But men FEAR the vulnerability it requires to ask for it.

 

They can’t fail, they can’t be weak, they can’t show they’re hurting.

 

This creates a distance between the two. And the way women and men naturally communicate may add fuel to the fire. She gets reactive when he vocalizes, so he stops talking.

 

I mean I can think of three men who had affairs and the wives had NO idea because they thought everything was perfect. There was a break down in communication.

 

I agree, but it's no where near the levels in which women need it.

 

Say you have a marriage where the wife is emotionally unavailable but has a high sex drive. That marriage would survive in most cases in some maybe even thrive. Flip that where the husband is totally unavailable with a high drive it was be a trainwreck of a marriage where most women would be extremely unhappy and unfulfilled.

 

I think another issue is what is emotional connections? For many men that means a cheerleader. It takes on a totally different meaning for women in general.

[Lotus_Luna]

I agree, but it's no where near the levels in which women need it.

 

Say you have a marriage where the wife is emotionally unavailable but has a high sex drive. That marriage would survive in most cases in some maybe even thrive. Flip that where the husband is totally unavailable with a high drive it was be a trainwreck of a marriage where most women would be extremely unhappy and unfulfilled.

 

I think another issue is what is emotional connections? For many men that means a cheerleader. It takes on a totally different meaning for women in general.

 

Agreed. I wasn’t his cheerleader, more of his companion. We’d talk about his day, send me pics of what he was doing and I was genuinely interested.

 

In turn he would be my confidant when I was struggling.

 

We weren’t really physical (his choice) but knowing I had a high sex drive and was expressive about it. I think the fantasy was fulfilling enough. He got the friendship and the sexual desire

[BlueBobby]

So men never want to have an emotional connection with a woman?

 

 

 

They do. Even if that is not the plan from the start. Every single person craves to be understood emotional connection can happen easily without even meaning for it to and if there’s any kind of sexual attraction already you have a recipe for lust infatuation and love by could happen .

[BlueBobby]

I did have an emotional connection from the very start with my girl, that even during the best times I never had with my wife.

it started out as friendship and we were so much alike we decided to do a friends with benefits thing quickly turned into everything more .

 

We hang out a lot with no sex but obviously sex is the first thing on my mind when I think of her, AND YET If anything exciting or scary or sad or happy happens in my life she is also the person I think of first and want to share with.

 

The only time I just told her what I thought she wanted to hear was at the very beginning and we are six years in

[BlueBobby]

I don’t know how guilty I feel I guess it’s like a build up I can’t wait to see her to wait to talk to her and be with her and then after I do I’m trying to separate myself from the whole thing a little bit but I don’t know if that’s because I’m feeling guilty or because I just want to keep some normalcy

[brigit87]

They do. Even if that is not the plan from the start. Every single person craves to be understood emotional connection can happen easily without even meaning for it to and if there’s any kind of sexual attraction already you have a recipe for lust infatuation and love by could happen .

 

True enough. Which is why I feel having friends of the opposite sex isn't a good idea.

[Lotus_Luna]

I don’t know how guilty I feel I guess it’s like a build up I can’t wait to see her to wait to talk to her and be with her and then after I do I’m trying to separate myself from the whole thing a little bit but I don’t know if that’s because I’m feeling guilty or because I just want to keep some normalcy

 

This was my experience with him... he would beed distance afterwards. I think it’s a chance to process?

 

Right now i feel like he’s majorly friendzined me again. I’m super confused about it. Sometimes I’m the person he shares EVERYTHING with and then sometimes he’s quiet.

 

Nature of an affair... breadcrumbs

 

I don’t live in that space... I am totally happy with him and the nature of the relationship. I don’t really have guilt anymore. I think being a woman we tend to be so done with our current relationship we don’t have the same struggles

[DKT3]

This was my experience with him... he would beed distance afterwards. I think it’s a chance to process?

 

Right now i feel like he’s majorly friendzined me again. I’m super confused about it. Sometimes I’m the person he shares EVERYTHING with and then sometimes he’s quiet.

 

Nature of an affair... breadcrumbs

 

I don’t live in that space... I am totally happy with him and the nature of the relationship. I don’t really have guilt anymore. I think being a woman we tend to be so done with our current relationship we don’t have the same struggles

 

In the moment. The difference is women play a game of mental gymnastics while in an affair. Most simply replace their husband with AP, putting all of her mental and emotional energy there.

 

In a 2014 German based study, they followed 4700 couples of infidelity from 1993-2013. The study found that 64% of the women considered leaving the marriage for the AP. 17% actually did. Of that 17%, 80% attempted to return to the marriage within a year.

 

So the conclusion one could draw from that study is women tend to suppress their feelings about their marriage and husband while engaged in the affair. Women tend to belittle their husbands and think poorly of him as a justification for the affair. Often it's an over exaggeration of the actual issues within the marriage.

 

Men simply don't replace their wives, more often they seek extra, as such they tend to harbor more guilt in the moment.

[Lotus_Luna]

In the moment. The difference is women play a game of mental gymnastics while in an affair. Most simply replace their husband with AP, putting all of her mental and emotional energy there.

 

In a 2014 German based study, they followed 4700 couples of infidelity from 1993-2013. The study found that 64% of the women considered leaving the marriage for the AP. 17% actually did. Of that 17%, 80% attempted to return to the marriage within a year.

 

So the conclusion one could draw from that study is women tend to suppress their feelings about their marriage and husband while engaged in the affair. Women tend to belittle their husbands and think poorly of him as a justification for the affair. Often it's an over exaggeration of the actual issues within the marriage.

 

Men simply don't replace their wives, more often they seek extra, as such they tend to harbor more guilt in the moment.

 

This seems accurate...

 

Although I was done before the affair started.

 

He became my second husband.

 

He still had his wife.

 

Which is the confusion to me... like what more do you need? If it’s not sex then why isnt your mate enough?

[carhill]

Since the topic is emotional affairs by men, any statistics on how prevalent wives abandon their husbands emotionally to impel such replacement and/or men who seek extra attention and intimacy, not sex, from women?

 

The statistics quoted and inferences drawn would indicate to me that a wife's affair would lead to emotional abandonment and demonization of the husband. Other situations, absent an affair by the wife, where she'd abandon her husband but choose to stay in the M? Depression? Mental illness? Biding her time until a BBD? Etc?

 

The OP posited an interesting question. Unfortunately, LS has far too few males posting to pull up even a few who've had, or would admit to, any sort of affair. Plus, men, in general, don't talk about their affairs. They're out building wealth and banging broads and being successful and bouncing their kids and grandkids on their knee. Think JFK. That's what men do. Right? Most of the men I see posting in the Infidelity areas are betrayed spouses. Good thing I don't draw conclusions from that.

[Lotus_Luna]

Since the topic is emotional affairs by men, any statistics on how prevalent wives abandon their husbands emotionally to impel such replacement and/or men who seek extra attention and intimacy, not sex, from women?

 

The statistics quoted and inferences drawn would indicate to me that a wife's affair would lead to emotional abandonment and demonization of the husband. Other situations, absent an affair by the wife, where she'd abandon her husband but choose to stay in the M? Depression? Mental illness? Biding her time until a BBD? Etc?

 

The OP posited an interesting question. Unfortunately, LS has far too few males posting to pull up even a few who've had, or would admit to, any sort of affair. Plus, men, in general, don't talk about their affairs. They're out building wealth and banging broads and being successful and bouncing their kids and grandkids on their knee. Think JFK. That's what men do. Right? Most of the men I see posting in the Infidelity areas are betrayed spouses. Good thing I don't draw conclusions from that.

 

What’s so funny is the men I know who had affairs were not JFK types. I only knew 1 guy who slept around... even then he fed me BS lines about giving it up for me.

 

Most of the guys were feeling under valued, lookingbfir sex and connection.

 

They didn’t leave their wives but used the affair as a crutch.

 

I want mine back for essentially the same reason. Until I leave for good, I want the emotionally support because I’m lonely

[carhill]

Yep, IMO depends on the social strata. However your posting just caused me to ponder all the males I know personally in my social circle. None would ever admit to me directly that they had an affair, ever, of any type. However, some of their kids have a different perspective! By kids, I mean long been adults and have adult children of their own. It appears their fathers and grandfathers have some selective memory issues!

 

None of them, based on my inquiries when I was in MC for my EA, would ever go to MC for anything. It's beneath them. This is simply the classic male of my generation. Tons of them out there.

 

I remember my first EA as a single guy decades ago, long before EA's were a 'thing' and it turned out the MW was banging her boss whom I thought was single. Nope, turned out he was married too. All the secretaries in his business got a piece of him. That was typical of the dynamic at the time. Think those guys go sure, I banged the office? Ha ha. That same MW shared with me many years later that she, long gone from that business, ran into the same guy, now 20 years older, at a party and he started hitting on her again. Still married!

 

Anyway, how many men in this thread have had an affair of any sort? I raised my hand. Anyone else? Let's take a poll. If you want to do a poll, come up with the poll options and I'll post it up.

 

Thanks for bringing up a topic rarely covered here.