Dealing with age differences in professional groups

[Zapbasket]

I started a professional group this summer that meets monthly. It's me and two other women. One is in her late fifties; the other is in her mid-twenties and I'm in the middle, roughly, of the two of them in age.

 

I'm having a problem with the younger one. She's super-flaky, promises written feedback and then never delivers despite my giving her extensive written feedback on her work. When we try to schedule our next meeting she takes forever to answer her emails and we always end up bending over backwards to accommodate her schedule. Increasingly she's striking me as whiny and entitled and, I hate to say it, as the very epitome of the "millennial" stereotype. When she left the pages of detailed written feedback I'd given her on the work she submitted on someone's desk and days later still hasn't picked it up, I felt at the end of my rope. That feedback took me a long time to provide, and to see her be so cavalier about it just rankles me, especially given she hasn't given me any the last two times we have met.

 

I wrote her as gentle an email as possible, addressing her lack of feedback to me and asking what was up. I thought it would kind-of make her "snap to" and stop with the general flakiness. But her response was more of the same: "I can't deal with this right now"; "I had a difficult week because someone is being mean to me"; etc. There's always something she's so busy with that she couldn't check her email or respond, give feedback, etc.

 

I'm tempted to cut her loose and bluntly tell her that while I think she's smart and talented and that was why I wanted to build a group with her, I just find her too uncommitted and I really don't feel like chasing someone down to show up properly to the group.

 

How have you guys handled group dynamics or working with a much younger person? Do you create a written set of guidelines of expectations, etc. for the group, or is that condescending? Do you just chalk up annoying / unproductive behavior in the younger person to immaturity and just stay patient with them, or do you call them out?

 

The other dynamic is that the younger woman told me that the older woman never gives her written feedback. Meanwhile, the older woman and I have been exchanging extensive notes on each other's work as well as having conversations about what kind of feedback we each find most helpful. So now I'm wondering if the older woman secretly doesn't want the younger one in the group, and doesn't take her seriously, or if maybe they're both lazy with feedback. The way I always was trained, for the kind of professional group we're in, one ALWAYS provides written feedback separately from the feedback provided in the live meeting. Where I've studied that has always been the standard.

 

How can I best address all of this, in a direct yet compassionate way that might salvage our group? Get rid of the younger one? Give her a lecture on the adult world and that no one cares to hear constant excuses and deal with constant flakiness? (Note: I'd hate to do this as it's really not my style, but I'm really not interested in accommodating her loose notions of "commitment." It feels like coddling, at the expense of getting my needs met from the group.)

Edited November 3, 2018 by GreenCove

[Mr. Lucky]

Without knowing the specific people involved, hard to address the dynamics of your small group. I'll leave that for others.

 

But I will say, in my 60's, I very much enjoy working with young people. Yes, they can be unfocused, just IIRC I was at that age. But I'll take their enthusiasm, openness to new ideas and gratitude for assistance every time. So many career "veterans" have a jaded, been there/done that approach to almost everything, seems as though many are trying to just run the clock out.

 

Give me excitement and energy every time...

 

Mr. Lucky

[basil67]

Greencove, I'd leave her age out of the equation. It would be different if you were in a mentoring role, but as you're supposed to be equals I would expect her to behave as an equal.

 

Anyway, from the behaviour you are describing, it doesn't sound like she has much interest in participating in the group. Perhaps your conversation needs to be more along the lines of the group not being the right fit for her at present.

[Zapbasket]

But I'll take their enthusiasm, openness to new ideas and gratitude for assistance every time. So many career "veterans" have a jaded, been there/done that approach to almost everything, seems as though many are trying to just run the clock out.

 

Give me excitement and energy every time...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

I'm like you in that I like an eclectic mix of ages and I seek it out whenever I can. But this woman, or girl, really, acts like assistance is her due. She's arrogant, and instead of being open to new ideas and enthusiastic, she seems to think she knows everything and has nothing to learn from the two of us. I didn't really see this side of her until we got into this group together.

 

And that's why I say she just seems to epitomize the worst of what we say about millennials. As I type this I feel like I want to get her out of the group, but if I thought there were a way I could inspire or elicit better behavior or greater dedication to the group from her, I'd take that route. I thought I was pretty direct in my email to her, but not only did she write back that for X and Y reason she "couldn't deal with this right now," she also claimed she had notes for me and would send them a.s.a.p. and it's going on 24 hours later and no notes. Which suggests she lied to me about having prepared notes for me, otherwise she could have just quickly re-sent them. And I can't tolerate liars. Especially not over something so stupid.

[Zapbasket]

as you're supposed to be equals I would expect her to behave as an equal.

 

Thanks. Yes, that's my instinct, too. I definitely would not put up with this behavior from someone my age.

 

Anyway, from the behaviour you are describing, it doesn't sound like she has much interest in participating in the group. Perhaps your conversation needs to be more along the lines of the group not being the right fit for her at present.

 

You think that's what it is? If so, I gave her an out; I wish she'd just said she couldn't do the group right now. In my email I said to her:

 

I had thought we were of similar mind about providing feedback on our writing submissions, both during our meetings as well as separate written feedback. But it seems maybe this isn't working for you? Whatever's going on, talk to me.

 

One option I have is just to leave it. To just contact the other, older woman to schedule our next meeting and leave the younger one out of it. And then if the younger one reaches out wondering when we're meeting, I'll tell her...what? That she's just not cutting it for me? That she didn't seem very dedicated I need more commitment from people I make the effort to be in a group with?

[preraph]

Cut her loose. Tell her you spent a lot of time on it and she has been unresponsive and wasted your time. That's all the feedback she needs.

[Zapbasket]

Cut her loose. Tell her you spent a lot of time on it and she has been unresponsive and wasted your time. That's all the feedback she needs.

 

Yeah, I don't want to work with her anymore, and that approach could take care of it.

 

It's just that we do continue to work together in another capacity, so not only will we see each other but also will have occasion to give feedback on each other's work. And to that end I'm tempted to say something along the lines of, "Our professional world is a small one and when you act like you've been acting, people do notice, and remember. I thought you were such a great young woman, but after this I'd be hesitant to work with you again. Reputation does matter."

 

Is it just not worth it?

[SunnyWeather]

I'd leave out the lecture and just fade. If she gets in touch then explain that her lack of input wasn't working for the group anymore, wish her all the best. I'd also consider adding more to the group to get a better dynamic.

[preraph]

Yeah, I don't want to work with her anymore, and that approach could take care of it.

 

It's just that we do continue to work together in another capacity, so not only will we see each other but also will have occasion to give feedback on each other's work. And to that end I'm tempted to say something along the lines of, "Our professional world is a small one and when you act like you've been acting, people do notice, and remember. I thought you were such a great young woman, but after this I'd be hesitant to work with you again. Reputation does matter."

 

Is it just not worth it?

 

Since you have to still work together, I would keep it less personal and more professional. Tell her that you put a lot of effort into it and that she didn't seem interested in it or responsive, so you will find someone better suited.

[Zapbasket]

Thanks. I think I'll start with the fade and just not contact her to schedule meetings. Knowing her, she'll out of nowhere reach out and be all, "Hi guys! I'm back! So when are we getting together?" And at that time I'll tell her something along the lines of what Preraph and SunnyWeather suggest.

 

I do agree about adding more people to the group. I think four is ideal. Going forward, should I draw up a short mission statement and outline of how we structure our meetings, and expectations for feedback? It seems that groups fail when there is a lack of agreed-upon expectations re: what the group's purpose is and how meetings are structured. But even that can't stop people being disrespectful to other group members, or flaking out consistently on meetings, giving feedback, and submitting work. Should I have a clear policy on how that is handled? What sucks is you generally don't have to worry about such things when the group is a good fit. It just...works.

 

And I'm curious: those of you who work with or around mid-twenty-somethings, do you find they tend to be more entitled, arrogant, whiny, flaky and prone to grossly overestimating their own abilities to the point, sometimes, of delusion? I feel like I'm sounding like an old lady but I see people in this age group and I feel like much more was required of me at that age than seems to be required of them. I'd thought this girl was different, but over time she has just become insufferable to the extent I fear this is just how she is, and how she'll always be, rather than just what comes with a person only a few years out of college.

[preraph]

Not all of the young ones are bad. It really depends on their ethics and what their parents taught them. Going back decades, it's always been the case that young people, especially but not limited to those straight out of college, greatly overrate their value and expect to be rich within a year and receive big raises all the time. This is only partly their fault since colleges tend to lie, lie, lie to them to keep taking their money.

 

Back in the 90s, I ran an office and hired a young girl. She started bugging me for a raise all the time. She had no real skills. I had worked 20 years to make enough money to live on with only one job in that industry and here she had just started and was very entitled and thought she should just be paid a lot right now. I explained to her that that industry takes a long time to make headway in and is too much fun to pay that much at entry level. She finally shot herself in the foot when she became email friends with a guy in the regional office who was stupid enough to tell her what the head regional boss made and she got mad and came to me telling me if they can afford to pay him $80, they can certainly afford to pay her some ridiculous figure. So I got rid of her pretty easy because then all I had to do is tell the regional boss. Stupidly, I think he kept the dork who told her that that worked in his office. Not really fair in that way, but typical.

 

One young girl who was there in the office when I got there, it was her first job and she had been hired by my predecessor, who had a crush on her, and the only thing she did is talk sports and yak and only very occasionally put a package in the mail. She cried when he left and was still crying when I got there. I put everyone to work. The office was a hoarder's dream. My predecessor was a hoarder (of course they promoted him), never threw away a paper or magazine or gave promo product away, which is what it's for, to go to clients. So I had to put everyone to work, which was a rude shock. The girl who was there when I got there asked for a different job but remained in my office distracting my workers every day and poisoning new help. And nothing I could do about it.

 

So there's always been those. You have to look for someone who takes initiative and doesn't wait to be caught loafing and told to do something.

 

You know how I ended up getting promoted to manager at my first little record store job? Of course, I did everything they told me to do and was very eager, but I started just voluntarily sweeping the carpet with a broom without being asked to do it, and that's what made the manager make me assistant manager, and shortly after, I got my own store. She even commented on it when she promoted me. Something about, anyone who volunteers to sweep without being nagged...

 

So pay attention to who is taking initiative and seems happy to be there.