Why am I like this?

[Harcel]

It's not that you only attract these type of guys as all women attract these type of guys. They like women. The trick is to filter out the guys who are players, emotionally unavailable, or abusive. The question is why are you attracted to these guys who you are willing to let abuse you. I think therapy is your best bet to get to the root of why you don't feel worthy of a good man.

 

It is almost as if they see me coming. It’s not like I have a bunch of ‘good guys’ interested in me that I am pushing away. And I do try to filter them out, the ones who are straight up jerks I am aware of. It’s the ones that appear to be different and interested in something but real. But after a while it becomes apparent they are manipulative and mostly only looking for sex. Obviously the more abusive stuff has been in past relationships not with people I’m just talking to online.

 

And yeh maybe therapy would help but I have tried around 5 different therapist over the past 10 years and none have suited me.

[preraph]

Easy answer my Father.

But also my Mother at certain stages in my life.

 

So what happened is out of necessity, you learned some skills to deal with that, so let's just make up an example. Say you're with a guy you're dating and you stop to get gas. He stays in the car and you pump the gas, because it's your car, but he keeps finding things to criticize you for or make fun of you for with just the way you're doing this mundane task or he hurries you or whatever. So this isn't a dealbreaking event and you'd feel funny for making a thing out of it because it's so small and petty. And you're use to dealing with this type stuff which was more or less the norm in your household. So you just let it go and keep this guy around. Meanwhile, he's just learned you'll take a lot of criticism and abuse and it will only get worse.

 

Another person would tell him where to stick it and not to boss her around and think about how she doesn't want to be with a guy who will be this way and leave him behind. But you've been hearing it all your life, so you're letting this person in because it's familiar and you also have some skills to cope with it.

But you shouldn't. You need to kick trash to the curb where it belongs and have boundaries and when a guy, even in the smallest most petty way, puts you down or tries to make you feel stupid or worthless, even for a moment, just know that a good guy won't do that ever intentionally. A good person will support you and cheer you on, not tear you down. People like this often have bad self-esteem themselves and it makes them feel good to tear others down.

 

Even if your dad and mom weren't of this particular ilk, you get the idea. If they were cold and detached or you had to chase to get their love and attention, it's the same dynamic except their condition may be something else, like lack of empathy or narcissism.

 

We have instincts just like animals do. Animals have to rely on instincts and humans should too. When something doesn't feel right, it isn't. Trust your gut and sit down and make boundaries and throw back the ones you catch who are preying on you. See, as soon as you take one little load of crap from them, they know you're a victim they can exploit. So don't take any crap at all.

[Harcel]

So what happened is out of necessity, you learned some skills to deal with that, so let's just make up an example. Say you're with a guy you're dating and you stop to get gas. He stays in the car and you pump the gas, because it's your car, but he keeps finding things to criticize you for or make fun of you for with just the way you're doing this mundane task or he hurries you or whatever. So this isn't a dealbreaking event and you'd feel funny for making a thing out of it because it's so small and petty. And you're use to dealing with this type stuff which was more or less the norm in your household. So you just let it go and keep this guy around. Meanwhile, he's just learned you'll take a lot of criticism and abuse and it will only get worse.

<snip>

 

Your example is interesting because actually I wouldn’t take that at all.

 

I met a guy earlier this year who was a complete A-Hole. I can imagine him doing exactly as you described. On our first date he thought he was entitled to grab my breasts (in public) and tried to belittle me about my age (i’m 32, he was 46 and he made ‘jokes’ that I was too old for kids and said he was used to dating girls around 25) He was vile and let me tell you I didn’t not stand for his BS and I walked out on dinner.

 

There were maybe red flags that I didn’t pick up on during our phone and text conversations which could be my downfall but when face to face with him I wasn’t putting up with that kind of behaviour.

 

On the other hand I have been talking to a guy for a while, he wants to meet me but I haven’t because I know it would just be sex but the things he talks about; sexually degrading me and beating me (in quite an extreme way) is a turn on to me. Now I know it turns me on but as I said I haven’t met him because I know that’s all it would be, I do need and crave something more. Do I want a combination of both? Or am I just accepting it. I don’t know because I don’t think you can love someone AND treat them that way.

Edited November 10, 2018 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Truncate quote

[preraph]

By acting out that violence, you are trying to find some way to make it acceptable and normal. You are trying to find some excuse or justification for how a parent can love you and still abuse you. You are trying to fix it. But it will only lead to abuse.

Edited March 20, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[Harcel]

And that is it.

 

I think also there is part of me that is drawn to people I know won’t stick around because I am afraid of the attachment myself, I know that I am probably the one who isn’t emotionally available.

 

I have been thinking about this a lot the past week and even more so since starting this discussion and it’s probably not something I can deal with on my own. If anyone has any suggestions to the kind of therapy I need I would be grateful because what I have tried previously hasn’t helped and just made me frustrated with the therapist. I felt they overlooked a lot of the issues I talked about and focused on what they thought was important.

Edited March 20, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[preraph]

Why don't you contact one of the online therapy sites (try to get one with real psychologists) and ask them during a consultation what type therapy is best for working through this type of childhood stuff and tell them what your comfort level is. Like I hate a therapist who only sits and takes notes. I think by talking more, they can hasten the process. Hit or miss, yes, but waiting for the patient to have an "ah-hah" moment when they've gone all those years without it seems lazy to me. And you should research first on Google and just look for the different types of therapy and read through how each one works and note some preferences. I mean, there are all kinds, cognitive, behavioral, on and on. Read about them and see what you might get the best use out of. And decide which sex of a therapist you are comfortable with, too.

 

The problem I had with my one and only stint at the therapist is she was so opposite of me, no street smarts, had led a very tame life.

 

Look for some books on the cycle of abuse. That will be interesting for you to see how that works. I can't recommend one, but I'm sure there are a lot out there.

Edited November 6, 2018 by preraph

[Harcel]

Urgh! Those note takers! My mother put me into therapy as a kid because I was a problem (Ha!!!) and I ended up just telling them a bunch of lies just to get through the time because they would ask very basic questions then just stare at me or take notes.

 

But thank you, that’s helpful and a good place to start. I did try betterhelp once but they said they couldn’t help me. I think because I ticked yes for having suicidal thoughts. That was a low point, not something that’s regular.

 

On another note, I have been talking to 3 guys this evening on a dating app. Just general intro chat, 2 of them quickly dropped out of the conversation. The third one started talking about astrology sign and told me that as he’s a Leo he tends to be more dominant in the bedroom and then asked if I identify more with being dominant or submissive. This is what I mean about them seeking me out, why did the other guys drop out!? I don’t feel I was giving any less to those conversions yet this guy goes straight in with that talk and no surprise, he’s saying hes Dominant!

Edited March 20, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[preraph]

I don't understand why a guy is talking about what he's like in the bedroom before he's even met you. How does the subject even come up? Someone talking like that before you've even met is a red flag, IMO. I hope you're not on a hookup site, because that could be the source of some of the problems.

[Harcel]

Exactly! No it’s not even a hook up app!

[Mrin]

Okay just catching up with this thread, OP. A few thoughts:

 

1.D/s Stuff: Okay, cool. It sounds like you are well aware of your kink. Ha! Question: have you ever been in a D/s structured relationship?

 

2. FetLife and D/s dating: I've never actively tried to date using FetLife or any of the lifestyle sites/apps. Honestly, from what you describe, you're looking for a loving, caring Dominant. In my limited experience being around other Doms it seems like the vast majority are just into the sexual or erotic aspects of the D/s dynamic. Especially the younger ones. What you describe is someone who embraces the whole D/s mindset in a very fundamental way and one that sees the D/s dynamic elevating the sub through D/s kinks rather diminishing or using her. Most people who aren't wired for D/s at a root level can't understand that dynamic. I mean I get it. Dragging your sub around by her hair, spanking her until she cries and growling "scream for me you dirty little slut" into her ear doesn't sound very elevating to the vanilla crowd. Ha!

 

And that also goes for many Doms too honestly. They just get off of the Dom power trip.

 

So with that being said, I think it is hard to find the type of Dom you're looking for on FetLife. Everyone there is just so focused on the sex. You may want to try more "conventional" sites like MeetMindful or Match. Also, what I would suggest is avoiding D/s terms or men who use D/s terms right off the bat. Those are so sexually loaded.

 

Instead, what I'd do is use words or look for men that use words like the masculine/feminine energy or dynamic. Use "confident" and "assertive" rather than "alpha". Those words are all precursors to a D/s mindset and so if you find someone who is familiar or comfortable talking about those subjects, it is far more likely that he's the type of Dom you're looking for rather than just a dude who is into BDSM sex.

 

3. Dudes these days... I've heard from a good number of my single female friends about dudes being really upfront with BDSM talk. Like right out of the blue. A few thoughts for you. I am a big believer that sub women throw off a "sub vibe" that Doms pick up on and so they act on it. Can't blame them there. So there is that. But I also think a lot of dudes are just working the whole D/s angle as a way of having the DTF? conversation right up front or seducing a woman quickly. Honestly I get that too. It can be very powerful as it sort of pegs an erotic soft spot in many women's minds (yay biology). I'm pretty sure I would stand a pretty good chance of seducing most women with any sort of D/s leanings or curiosities simply by a detailed description of the the spiritual and erotic nature of an intimate Japanese rope bondage session and showing her a few pics of the more beautiful ties.

 

But here's the thing, I'd avoid dudes who go "there" quickly. The type of Dom you're looking for doesn't bring that up right out of the gates, unless say you met on FetLife. Rather, he will be respectful and will guide the conversation there once he's developed a level of trust and communication with you and has found you to be someone who interests him.

 

4. Therapy: Okay. all of that was about your dating questions. But it also sounds like all of this is brining up some stuff for you emotionally that you want addressed. You mentioned that you have some violence and abandonment experiences in your childhood. Have you ever seen an abuse or trauma counselor about it? Someone who specializes in abuse? It may have been a long time ago, but to your unconscious mind, it was like it was yesterday. Those synaptic connections that were formed when you experienced the trauma are still right there. Fully formed.

 

Other things to consider: 1) hypnotherapy and 2) Landmark. They're kinda polar opposites as to what they do and how they do it. Hypnotherapy could be a way for you to untangle or unwire those synaptic connections or thoughts in your unconscious mind and Landmark is just a really good way to complete things such as abuse in your conscious mind.

 

Anyhow, I wrote a novel. Hope some of this helps!

 

Mrin

[Ruby Slippers]

But I did experience violence and abandonment in my childhood so is this something I subconsciously perceive as ‘normal’ although I consciously know that it’s not I am drawn to certain people because they reflect what I knew as love as a child?

This is it. I went through emotional and verbal abuse and some degree of neglect growing up, and it's absolutely colored every relationship I've had.

 

In my 20s I reacted strongly against my dad's energy by dating mostly very doting, adoring, submissive kind of men. Then in my 30s I went the other way and dated mostly strong, take-charge guys who seemed great on the surface but had somewhat abusive tendencies deep down - just like my dad.

 

What we think... we become. Like attracts like, and everything begins in your mind.

 

It's only now in my 40s that I've made dramatic progress and finally learned and truly understood my dad was very misguided. Now I'm meeting pretty much only strong, loving, serious men, humanitarian men with a positive vision for the future, just like me.

 

I spent thousands of dollars on therapy, only to make a couple of breakthroughs.

 

I think I could give you better advice in a few private messages than you'd get out of years of therapy. Feel free to send me a message and I'll tell you what I've learned.

[Harcel]

1.D/s Stuff: Okay, cool. It sounds like you are well aware of your kink. Ha! Question: have you ever been in a D/s structured relationship?

No I haven’t.

2. FetLife and D/s dating: I've never actively tried to date using FetLife or any of the lifestyle sites/apps. Honestly, from what you describe, you're looking for a loving, caring Dominant. In my limited experience being around other Doms it seems like the vast majority are just into the sexual or erotic aspects of the D/s dynamic. Especially the younger ones.

FetLife is very sex focused, you only have to spend 5 minutes looking at some of the content people upload. It’s a lot of exhibitionism and ‘showing off’. I would never slut shame anyone for what they choose to put out on the internet but i’ll just say that’s not my style yet I found myself uploading some provocative pics (no nudity) in a bit to keep up/stand out. But anyways I don’t use it to find men, there’s 3 men I talk to from there, one is the aforementioned, another is just friendly chit chat and the third is a guy I met on a normal app and later discovered he was on there. He is one of the men who I have felt mislead me in a way (acting like he’s looking for something real, constantly messaging me, saying all the right things etc but hasn’t actually followed through with meeting)

 

 

3. Dudes these days... I've heard from a good number of my single female friends about dudes being really upfront with BDSM talk. Like right out of the blue. A few thoughts for you. I am a big believer that sub women throw off a "sub vibe" that Doms pick up on and so they act on it. Can't blame them there. So there is that. But I also think a lot of dudes are just working the whole D/s angle as a way of having the DTF? conversation right up front or seducing a woman quickly.

I think with this I just need to learn to look out for the red flags, set some boundaries and filter better.

4. Therapy: Okay. all of that was about your dating questions. But it also sounds like all of this is brining up some stuff for you emotionally that you want addressed. You mentioned that you have some violence and abandonment experiences in your childhood. Have you ever seen an abuse or trauma counselor about it? Someone who specializes in abuse?

I think all of the therapist I have seen claimed to be experienced in those areas but not necessarily specialized in. There has always seemed to be too much focus on the now rather than the past. Like the last one was so focused on how my job was making me unhappy and I wasted 5 weeks (and a lot money) talking about stuff I already knew...I know my past has affected me in one way or another; I just wasn’t sure how. And actually in the past 4 days since starting this thread having this discussion as well as a few YouTube videos I feel I have had more of a breakthrough than I have with any therapist! All beit just a starting point I feel I am much clearer on where my ‘problems’ are.

 

I am truly overwhelmed and grateful for all of your responses and Ruby Slippers.

Edited November 10, 2018 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Fix formating and spacing

[elaine567]

On another note, I have been talking to 3 guys this evening on a dating app. Just general intro chat, 2 of them quickly dropped out of the conversation. The third one started talking about astrology sign and told me that as he’s a Leo he tends to be more dominant in the bedroom and then asked if I identify more with being dominant or submissive. This is what I mean about them seeking me out, why did the other guys drop out!? I don’t feel I was giving any less to those conversions yet this guy goes straight in with that talk and no surprise, he’s saying hes Dominant!

 

Are they seeking YOU out or are they just dangling a hook in the water and you are grabbing it.

 

Many women would have shut it down at "dominant in the bedroom", as that implies a one track mind, as he introduced sex so early into the conversation.

He is specifically looking for a sub, or a submissive woman or even a "victim" if he is an abuser, and you fit the bill...

 

It is also no coincidence that abusers end up with victims, they deliberately go out looking for them...

You with your family history are probably giving off a vulnerable vibe and some will recognise that straight away and be right in there.

So many women leave one abusive relationship to fall straight into another one. They have a beacon on their head that says, "Come abuse me..."