This is what happened

[ZA Dater]

You have refused ZA Dater, a couple pieces of advice that you haven't tried enough to know you don't like it - like dancing. This is such an easy skill to learn but you discount it because it makes you feel uncomfortable. Remember I was once a nerdy Asian guy who was kicked out of my favorite dance club by pretty women enforcing the no creeps rule. Now I am quite happy being around women and the feelings are mutual, I just have to find my favourite date. I realize you have told us socializing with women makes you feel awkward - pretty women make you feel awkward even though you want them. You can socialize and do public speeches with men just fine, but attractive women intimidate you in some way. Until you try another approach, which is even necessary if you are settling with a gold digger, you can't win this game by opposing the advice of the community of LS. Sure lots of dating coaches are snake oil, but why don't you seek out one that suits your fancy? They can't all be unsuitable.

 

 

 

I have a fundamental issue dating coaches. Much the same issue I have with therapists. You can line up 10 and ask 10 the same question and get 10 different answers. There isn't much logic of science involved here, one will tell me to wear orange shoes, another will say wear green shoes.

 

 

Proof of this is: As 10 women what they find attractive, you will get 10 variations so any "industry" which professes to adopt a "one blanket" covers all ignores the fact that the entire dating thing is individual. What is great to one is terrible to another.

 

 

There is no defined goal here, no "well if you have that you will get this". I have $100 I have a $100 whether its today or next year the number doesn't change, yet I can go out tomorrow and see 5 nice looking people and the next day none. My point is all dating coaches do is dispense generic theory based on how they think things should work based on a seemingly endless number of dating self help books, few of which are consistent at all.

 

 

The reality is for guys who struggle there is a better chance of winning the lottery than going out with someone we "Wholly" want, instead I'd wager if you struggle enough you just drop your standards and adopt "that will do". Unless you find a way to play the game in another way.

 

 

I don't enjoy dancing so its not something I am interested in doing, I admire those who can do it well but I don't have the co-ordination for it but I see how you think it can help, the logic there is clear for me to see. So you go to a dance club and then don't drink, essentially won at one thing and lost at another.

 

 

As for dancing I did try it, well why wouldn't I when a tall blond at her bachelorette party wants to dance with me, did I care that I was totally useless at it, no really but I did it because I wanted the attention at that moment, it was a change from the people who usually like me. More than that I wanted the experience.

[Garcon1986]

Dating isn't a game of logic in the first place mate. Dating coaches are telling you about their personal experience. I would at least ask the dating coach closest to you why he thinks you are not attracting women at the same rate.

 

 

There is still a chance that you will like dancing more if you get even more proficient at it. Coordination can be learned. You are still having a hard time jumping into a woman's world.

Edited November 12, 2018 by Garcon1986

[brigit87]

No you miss the point.

Of course people can improve, but relying on the myth that unsuccessful guys can suddenly become "babe magnets" in their 40-50s "just because" is just not true.

 

I have no idea why a snake oil salesman and a dating coach seem to mixed up in your mind, as a dating coach is exactly what you need.

 

Yeah but if he wants a dating coach he can get the information for free on youtube. He doesn't need to pay someone.

 

Also, making lots of money is a good idea. Women still want providers.

[elaine567]

Yeah but if he wants a dating coach he can get the information for free on youtube. He doesn't need to pay someone.

 

Also, making lots of money is a good idea. Women still want providers.

 

I think if Youtube was enough for him to suss it all out, he would not be on here all the time. He needs one to one personalised coaching.

Do this, don't do that, that's enough of that, that's not enough of that. She's really interested, keep going, she's bored now, stop.

You look like you hate her, lighten up... NEVER say that again... etc. etc.

 

Za Daters dates don't just not want to go on the second date, they often block him completely.

There is something wrong here that needs individual assessment IMO.

[ZA Dater]

Dating isn't a game of logic in the first place mate. Dating coaches are telling you about their personal experience. I would at least ask the dating coach closest to you why he thinks you are not attracting women at the same rate.

 

 

There is still a chance that you will like dancing more if you get even more proficient at it. Coordination can be learned. You are still having a hard time jumping into a woman's world.

 

 

The exact problem I have it. Pure subjectivity. Nobody is alike so obviously each persons experience will be different. So I got to an outgoing dating coach who looks like someone off the set of Baywatch? How relevant is that persons experience going to be to me? Not very.

 

 

That's my point there is nothing of substance, the experiences of people on this forum have more relevance than a dating coach, why because they aren't looking to profiteer which by nature means they aren't as likely to embellish the and stretch the truth to suit their own agenda, that being to make profit.

 

 

As I say I hope one day I find someone nice enough, curious enough and decent enough who actually sees some sort of potential in me, enough to want to spend time with me, someone who accepts me for me.

 

 

If that never happens I just have to live with it. Those are the two choices really. I have an outgoing personality it just needs to be brought out but its exceptionally hard to do that when I am forever judged as being a misfit.

 

 

Sure it would be nice to spend more time around pretty people but I have actually done that and its just like being kicked in the face because no matter what you wont be chosen over the good looking successful guys or just the successful ones. Yes, some of their confidence rubs off if they actually communicate with me to begin with and its interesting to observe a different way of dating, a place where there is choice.

 

 

All I can do is try improve where I can, try make better use of the very rare opportunities I get and hopefully something nice will happen but every holiday season I am reminded vividly so that I have nobody, every birthday and its hard to reconcile that and it doesn't feel great. However there are worse problems to have in life I see them daily and a part of me feels some happiness at being able to help some of these people in a small way. It doesn't matter one jot to the tall brunette walking down the road but as I say, maybe being respected trumps being liked.

[ZA Dater]

I think if Youtube was enough for him to suss it all out, he would not be on here all the time. He needs one to one personalised coaching.

Do this, don't do that, that's enough of that, that's not enough of that. She's really interested, keep going, she's bored now, stop.

You look like you hate her, lighten up... NEVER say that again... etc. etc.

 

Za Daters dates don't just not want to go on the second date, they often block him completely.

There is something wrong here that needs individual assessment IMO.

 

 

 

Unless the person is an exact replica of me I don't much see the value. I have watched some cheesy youtube dating advice videos but rather predictably I have yet to see ANYONE do any of those things so again I question their validity.

 

 

Anyone can sit and make up an advice video, I can advise the what better between McLaren and Ferrari, I have spent time in both. Someone else can do the same, having driven neither.

 

 

Each day I be the best person I can be, if that appeals to nobody then so be, at least I can look myself in the mirror and know I was me, not pretending to be someone else.

 

 

Telling is I can do out, sit at a table wherever and look around, nobody will care, nobody will talk to me, nobody will look at me but I am expected to make the first move.

 

 

And say what

 

 

"What do you think the California fires, its terrible how much property has been lost and how many people have been effected"

 

 

That's going to be a problem because chances are the person doesn't even know where California is!

 

 

Opening lines, why have them at all, why just not say what you think at that moment, why the need to be contrived? I don't get the concept really I don't and the more I think about it the more ridiculous the whole thing seems. Simply put all I want is some company someone to actually ask about me, taken an interest in me. Instead all I find are people who don't do any of those things but expect me to do those things to them. Fine enough but then offer up something I actually like, wow me in some way.

[brigit87]

Unless the person is an exact replica of me I don't much see the value. I have watched some cheesy youtube dating advice videos but rather predictably I have yet to see ANYONE do any of those things so again I question their validity.

 

 

Anyone can sit and make up an advice video, I can advise the what better between McLaren and Ferrari, I have spent time in both. Someone else can do the same, having driven neither.

 

 

Each day I be the best person I can be, if that appeals to nobody then so be, at least I can look myself in the mirror and know I was me, not pretending to be someone else.

 

 

Telling is I can do out, sit at a table wherever and look around, nobody will care, nobody will talk to me, nobody will look at me but I am expected to make the first move.

 

 

And say what

 

 

"What do you think the California fires, its terrible how much property has been lost and how many people have been effected"

 

 

That's going to be a problem because chances are the person doesn't even know where California is!

 

 

Opening lines, why have them at all, why just not say what you think at that moment, why the need to be contrived? I don't get the concept really I don't and the more I think about it the more ridiculous the whole thing seems. Simply put all I want is some company someone to actually ask about me, taken an interest in me. Instead all I find are people who don't do any of those things but expect me to do those things to them. Fine enough but then offer up something I actually like, wow me in some way.

 

It sounds like you want a 20 something, intellectual girl who's also pretty. TBH most of those girls have been grabbed up. (I was )

 

In any case, make a lot money. That's always a good idea. Life is freaking expensive.

[Garcon1986]

I'll give you a digital high five there, that attitude is a little better than wallowing around mate.

 

It can be annoying as hell to be constantly rejected by women. I am Asian and in Mississippi, so by definition I am constantly rejected by women. I still stay cheery about it. The only thing you can do here is to constantly seek out scenarios where beautiful women go. I again recommend you don't discount dancing (you don't have to drink alcohol), and you don't ignore the average looking women. They may be able to share something about social interactions you haven't learned yet. It is easy to get impatient as a logical man in a woman's world, where the choosy woman has the upper hand and first pick, but hey, I haven't dated every single woman aged 20-33 in the United States yet. I'm going to succeed at the dating game eventually.

[NuevoYorko]

Because I am told I must "broaden my search".

Oh please, man. All that stuff about dating coaches, seriously, if you went to one and behaved like you do here you'd def be wasting your dollars and time. Why pay money to archly refute everything suggested to you when you can do the same on here, for hours at a time, for free?

 

 

Good for you for stepping outside of your rigid little box. Your list of women who are unsuitable for you is not any kind of "proof" that broadening your criteria is a bad plan. It is proof that you've taken a small step towards joining the rest of the world of single people trying to find someone. Welcome. By broadening your criteria you've simply increased the odds that you might find a good fit for you. The less willing you are to take an honest look at yourself, the less likely it is that you will find it. It's not because of single mothers etc. Who, by the way, you don't have to date include in your broadening criteria since you clearly don't want to be a part of a ready made family. That's totally valid.

[Chilli]

Yeah l wasn't saying don't make money it's a great time to make money.

Just don't walk away from finding someone for 5 or 10 yrs while your doing it. Just don't make the mistake of ignoring life and love while your doing it.

That plus the fact you don't want women you can only get just because you have money anyway.

 

But l also dunno why you didn't take up the offer in one of your threads , from one of the girls here that offered to pm and help you out.

She could really help steer you in the right direction.

 

The other thing is, people arn't saying lower your standards as such, well l never have anyway - but there's a big difference between lowering standards and going for someone that's your equal, realistic .

lf your trying to go for models and social butterflies , when from what you say your neither, then that's just gonna get you what you've always got, zilch.

[ZA Dater]

Yeah l wasn't saying don't make money it's a great time to make money.

Just don't walk away from finding someone for 5 or 10 yrs while your doing it. Just don't make the mistake of ignoring life and love while your doing it.

That plus the fact you don't want women you can only get just because you have money anyway.

 

But l also dunno why you didn't take up the offer in one of your threads , from one of the girls here that offered to pm and help you out.

She could really help steer you in the right direction.

 

The other thing is, people arn't saying lower your standards as such, well l never have anyway - but there's a big difference between lowering standards and going for someone that's your equal, realistic .

lf your trying to go for models and social butterflies , when from what you say your neither, then that's just gonna get you what you've always got, zilch.

 

 

 

Well I put dating away for years to study so I suppose in some respects I am here because of that sacrifice. I also wont lie the ability to buy nice things resonates more with me than going on average date after average date. It would be a different matter if I was going on dates with people who wowed me...the key is being to be able to find these people and that I haven't figured out.

 

 

I actually wouldn't care if she only liked me for money, cant say it would bother me that much because I think its rare that attraction is based on intangible aspects, rather it seems to be its "where can this person take me and what tangible benefit can I obtain being with this person".

 

 

I know what I can be, when I get it right it works and I have limitless confidence. Just need to find that more often and get things all lined up. Its difficult being someone people don't find attractive at first but with time I think I do a lot better.

 

 

Successes. There have been perhaps a handful where I nearly got dates I actually wanted. One of which was a track day I arranged, I had a Ferrari 458 to drive that particular day I asked her if she wanted to go for a blast around the track. Half and hour later she was my best friend and all over me, I even got her number. Only to find out when I called her that she had a bf. My point was I was in an environment where I was comfortable so I could be outgoing and me, there was no awkwardness.

 

 

Its the same with these events I arrange, its a very comfortable environment with people I relate to. My problem is I am too one dimensional, I either work well in a situation or I don't work at all, its very hard to bring that confident A game sitting in a club or at a bar.

 

 

However sometimes it can work, few months ago a friend brought a friend along to breakfast at a coffee shop, somehow that day I had some confidence and got chatting with her and it was quite nice, again had a bf it was a good chat and I could get something out of it.

 

 

Where it totally falls down is I am not fun so its hard to attract anyone. So I lowered the bar and defined success as a good conversation I enjoy. Another is an receptionist at a exotic car dealer I spend time at, we get along well, chat well, she has a bf too but at least chatting to her is practice of some sort and again I find some confidence.

 

 

Could I be fun, probably.

[Chilli]

Well l hear ya , l've paid that price too.

Even in my marriage l was too focused on getting that house and ahead for my family and making up for my 13yrs as a broke artist.

 

Quantity doesn't matter , you only need that one.

But there's some there you hit it off with , all you need is that right one that doesn't have a bf.

 

It's not gonna be every second lady for you stating the obvious , it's gonna be that one in a million. But that's ok , that's the only kind l've ever gone for they're around , just not in every crowd or on every corner, but they're there.

[Juha]

Why are you dating single mothers? You are a single guy without children, they do not fit for what you are looking to find.

 

Total waste of time for you.

[ZA Dater]

Why are you dating single mothers? You are a single guy without children, they do not fit for what you are looking to find.

 

Total waste of time for you.

 

 

 

Because finding people without kids is proving extremely difficult.