Boyfriend defended me in a fight but seeing him like that has freaked me out!

[some_username1]

It's an interesting moral question, for sure.

 

What I wonder is how many would change their opinion backing *excessive* force if the perpretator was their brother, husband or son? No-one would obviously take pride in a close relative getting up to that sort of behaviour in the first place but can anyone say hand on heart that they would not blame the victim for using excessive force to kill their loved one when any threat the loved one carried had already been 'neutralised'?

[Shepp]

It's an interesting moral question, for sure.

What I wonder is how many would change their opinion backing *excessive* force if the perpetrator was their brother, husband or son? No-one would obviously take pride in a close relative getting up to that sort of behaviour in the first place but can anyone say hand on heart that they would not blame the victim for using excessive force to kill their loved one when any threat the loved one carried had already been 'neutralised'?

 

It's the same the other way round though isnt it - if the victim was your brother or son would you forgive his use of 'excessive' force on the people that attacked him?

 

Probably!

 

People will always make exceptions for their own.( Part of love tbh )

[bathtub-row]

It's the same the other way round though isnt it - if the victim was your brother or son would you forgive his use of 'excessive' force on the people that attacked him?

 

Probably!

 

People will always make exceptions for their own.( Part of love tbh )

 

If it had been a relative of mine threatening others, I’d thank the guy for beating the crap out of him. Hopefully, it would knock some sense into him.

[some_username1]

If it had been a relative of mine threatening others, I’d thank the guy for beating the crap out of him. Hopefully, it would knock some sense into him.

 

Well yeah, but how about if it spilled over into something fatal, which it sounds like it could have?

 

It's easy to put yourself in the shoes of the victim in this scenario yet far harder to look at it from the POV of the mother of the perpetrator. Everyone is some mother's child after all...

[some_username1]

It's the same the other way round though isnt it - if the victim was your brother or son would you forgive his use of 'excessive' force on the people that attacked him?

 

Probably!

 

People will always make exceptions for their own.( Part of love tbh )

 

Yeah that's what I'm getting at- raising questions about the objectivity of people's arguments in favour of excessive force because, human nature being what it is, people are all like "yeah kill him!...as long as you don't hurt me by proxy", which would suggest that they don't really agree with flagrant use of excessive force because it's not a price they would be willing to bear if it affects them.

[Springsummer]

Right. And in this case the threat was already neutralised. There was no more threat, imminent or otherwise! Yet the OP's BF continued to beat the offender. Self defence and the defence of others is one thing, but in this case the BF was not doing that, he was exacting a physical punishment after the fact.

 

Being a strong hero and saving his GF from a scary situation or potential violence depends on your viewpoint: heroic, brave or stupid. But continuing to beat someone after they are incapacitated is not debatable: it is criminal. The law in almost all jurisdictions is very clear in this regard. The BF was committing assault, GBH or (if not stopped) murder.

 

 

Right! And that is why killing someone who is trying to kill you or others is totally OK. But that is not the situation here. There was no "cost" to granting the criminal life: he was already incapacitated and nobody's life was in danger.

 

 

And if you carry on beating someone up after they've been neutralised, you're a lot likelier to end up in jail.

 

Ditto to this post.

[Springsummer]

My mistake. I misread.

 

sorry, I was kind of harsh.

[C.RileyRiles]

It's not pretty, but what really matters in the context.

The mistake, is thinking this episode marks him as inherently violent or dangerous. It doesn't, in fact that is the completely wrong way to look at. Believe it or not, inflicting violence is easy, especially for men. But I have seen utter cowards, men scared of their own shadow, inflict violence on women, children, the elderly, animals, etc. Mongrels physically incapable of besting their wife, will instead inflict emotional abuse.

Your BF used violence to defend you. Be grateful.

All it means is that, like the vast majority of people on this planet, he's capable of violence in certain circumstances.

Yeah that's a good point to be fair!

The guy I saw that night wasn't the guy that plays in the garden with my little brother, that goes to great lengths to save bumble bees, and that is so gentle with me! But I guess context comes into it! It wasn't my little brother, my old cat or a bumble bee. It wasn't me. It was directed at two men who had weapons

 

 

There IS nothing wrong with it.

If he didn't want to get beaten to a pulp, he could have made a speedy exit as soon as the boyfriend charged at him. Instead he pulled out a hammer. That's a deadly weapon.

Oh yeah they didn't instantly turn tail, they went for him! Only ran off when it started to become apparent that Ronnie was winning.

The average person reflexively defending against what they think is going to be a knife attack, protecting the areas of their body most vulnerable to cutting/stabbing (abdomen, neck, face), is likely to leave themselves open to a blow to the head - and one solid blow to the head from a hammer is enough to kill.

Still makes me feel cold! Like he could be dead! The amount the bloke was swinging that hammer round.. one hit to the head!

[C.RileyRiles]

If he were violent and vengeful, he'd have gone back and finished the guy off after calming down and cuddling his girlfriend. He didn't. He stopped after his friends pulled him away from the attacker.

Very true!

 

His adrenaline is through the roof!!! His thinking speeds up to the point where he is acting on pure impulse. Every blow is disorientating, the world gets fuzzy, hearing becomes almost non existent. He's being hit with a hammer, to an extent some endorphins are released numbing his perception of pain, hits become jarring. Testosterone spikes it raises his aggression. Field of vision narrows considerably

Cortisol increases, sends emergency signals of immediate danger to every cell in the body! He stops responsive just to the situation in front of him but to the mix of hormones flooding through his body!

The 'danger' maybe be 'neutralised', but he is not in a position to be able to see that with the clarity of an onlooker, he is still feeling the repercussions of the direct danger signals being sent to a brain.

 

Just like how you continue to shake with adrenaline following something scary!

 

I'm NOT saying people are not responsible here, they ARE, but the question here is whether OP's bf was right to engage or not!

Once he has engaged how can you possibly say the poor bloke failed to take a step back and realise that the threat was over within the same time frame the onlookers did!!?

Aw Shepp thank you for that.. that actually helps me understand a lot!

 

You know mate, if thats how you feel - get him to wife you up eh!?

Doesn't come around everyday, hold onto it!

Hahahaha! Well now, he's got to ask me first hasnt he!

 

Yeah that's what I'm getting at- raising questions about the objectivity of people's arguments in favour of excessive force because, human nature being what it is, people are all like "yeah kill him!...as long as you don't hurt me by proxy", which would suggest that they don't really agree with flagrant use of excessive force because it's not a price they would be willing to bear if it affects them.

Mmm yeah its very true!!!

Edited November 20, 2018 by C.RileyRiles

[Springsummer]

His adrenaline is through the roof!!! His thinking speeds up to the point where he is acting on pure impulse. Every blow is disorientating, the world gets fuzzy, hearing becomes almost non existent. He's being hit with a hammer, to an extent some endorphins are released numbing his perception of pain, hits become jarring. Testosterone spikes it raises his aggression. Field of vision narrows considerably

Cortisol increases, sends emergency signals of immediate danger to every cell in the body! He stops responsive just to the situation in front of him but to the mix of hormones flooding through his body!

The 'danger' maybe be 'neutralised', but he is not in a position to be able to see that with the clarity of an onlooker, he is still feeling the repercussions of the direct danger signals being sent to a brain.

 

We all gave him the benefit of a doubt there.

 

then I asked OP now that he calm down, if he is remorseful about the excessive force, but OP said he is too matter-of-fact about that. so what do you make of that?

 

and not everyone has the same hormonal reaction to the same situation. Some can control themselves, some can't. That's what make us different. That's why some people become lawyers, some become doctors, while some become criminals.

[Springsummer]

I do not what countries and background of the people who condone the behaviors come from.

 

I guess I just happen to live in a comparatively much more compassionate and trusting country.

 

for example, I bought a pair of wool legging, which cost $120 last year. It developed some small holes. I just went to the vendor website, fill out a simple form. and here we go, they just sent me a new pair! no question asked! not even asked my receipt.

 

You people sound like you have zero trust and compassion of another fellow human being.

[Kitty Tantrum]

Is it really so outrageous to afford a greater measure of trust and compassion to the man defending the life of his girlfriend... than to the man attacking that man with a hammer??

 

If you think this sense of morality has something to do with nationality, then I want to know where you're from so I can make sure I NEVER EVER GO THERE.

[Andy_K]

Is it really so outrageous to afford a greater measure of trust and compassion to the man defending the life of his girlfriend... than to the man attacking that man with a hammer??

 

Defending himself with a hammer you mean. After all, the boyfriend attacked first, didn't he?

[doyathinkso]

What a pack of brave keyboard warriors here.

Listen, dust the Cheeto crumbs off your fat guts and get this.

Fights are to be avoided because they are very serious business BUT once you are engaged in one you have to fight to win.

If you hold back You WILL Lose.

An opponent can play possum to get you off guard. You can't take that risk.

It ain't like it is on TV. It's ugly, and EVERYBODY gets hurt.

[guest569]

If OP were being attacked by a dog and the BF came and started bludgeoning the dog, yall would be telling her to leave him ASAP. No?

[MaleIntuition]

I’m guessing the robbers where pretty small and young for this scenario to make much sense?

 

If the boyfriend and her friends boyfriend simply would have walked up to them and asked “what’s up”, my guess is that the two boys would have changed their minds fairly quickly.

[C.RileyRiles]

Defending himself with a hammer you mean. After all, the boyfriend attacked first, didn't he?

This was my worry initially following the incident... potentially he did escalate the situation.

But even if he's response to a situations wasnt perfect, it doesn't make him a bad guy does it! His heart was in the right place..

Tbh it worries me more for his safety, like if he goes flying into situations like that without evening pausing to thin he could really get himself hurt

[guest569]

Keep telling yourself this. Hell yeah he responded imperfectly by potentially bludgeoning someone to death if others didn't intervene. Someone mentioned PTSD and I wonder what the deal is too. This guy seems unhinged. If I did what he did, I would probably be at the psychologist to figure out what happened and why I totally lost control. I get why it scares you. You have every reason to be concerned.

 

P. S before yall label me a far left hippy from a first world country with an actual legal system (ouch) my ex is a soldier and in civilian life he wouldn't hurt a fly especially when the threat is relatively low let's face it.

[C.RileyRiles]

I’m guessing the robbers where pretty small and young for this scenario to make much sense?

 

If the boyfriend and her friends boyfriend simply would have walked up to them and asked “what’s up”, my guess is that the two boys would have changed their minds fairly quickly.

Well no he wasn't beating up like kids or anything!!

They were a bit younger than us but definitely over age, maybe 19, not like 15!! Knife guy was shorter but quite built, hammer guy was tall.. 6'1, but super skinny.

 

He did engage first, and I'm not sure that was the right thing to do! However I they didn't come across like naive boys trying their luck.. I think they were looking for trouble!

[Kitty Tantrum]

Accosting a couple of women in the street and threatening them with bodily harm counts as engaging first in my book.

 

If the boyfriend hadn't shown up and one of the girls in question had gone into an adrenaline rage and somehow managed to take his hammer and pummel the guy to death, she'd be given an effing medal.

 

That anyone would take the honorable actions of the boyfriend in defending a couple of women from an armed mugger and try to twist them in manner so as to procure sympathy for the attacker and demonize the boyfriend is sick.

[Springsummer]

I’m guessing the robbers where pretty small and young for this scenario to make much sense?

 

If the boyfriend and her friends boyfriend simply would have walked up to them and asked “what’s up”, my guess is that the two boys would have changed their minds fairly quickly.

 

My guess too.

 

It just doesn't make sense to kill or seriously harm someone over some pocket money.

 

If they were violent and deadly criminals, they would be robbing the bank instead of 2 ladies.

[doyathinkso]

My guess too.

 

It just doesn't make sense to kill or seriously harm someone over some pocket money.

 

If they were violent and deadly criminals, they would be robbing the bank instead of 2 ladies.

 

 

Your naiveté is truly astounding.

 

You must have lived a very sheltered life.

 

Felons, criminals, are generally enormous cowards and as such are by a great margin much more likely to rob two defenseless women than a fortified institution with armed guards.

[Springsummer]

Your naiveté is truly astounding.

 

You must have lived a very sheltered life.

 

Felons, criminals, are generally enormous cowards and as such are by a great margin much more likely to rob two defenseless women than a fortified institution with armed guards.

 

lol

all the bank branches, grocery shops and every other kind of shops and stores are wide open and I don't see any armed guards in those places where I live.

 

I don't know. maybe you are in Brazil?

[Shepp]

My guess too.

OP's already stated they weren't naive teenagers, they were young men!

 

It just doesn't make sense to kill or seriously harm someone over some pocket money.

No! But he didn't shoot the guys! He got in a scrap and started winning. He didn't kill anyone! It's OP's viewpoint that he looked like he could, OP who self confesses to have NO experience of witnessing any kind of violence!

 

If they were violent and deadly criminals, they would be robbing the bank instead of 2 ladies.

How many folk do you hear of getting away with bank robberies? Only in the movies!

 

Someone mentioned PTSD and I wonder what the deal is too.

You know, I was thinking about this and for want of a better way to put it.. no s***!

 

Of course he's carrying an amount of mental baggage. (For one we all do, various experiences shape our reactions to the next experience. Then take a look at this guys back story). That doesn't make him a bad person, which he clearly isn't! OP's been with her man, what 18 months, and their relationship is obviously very good. Any description of their interactions points to exceptionally good! ...Whether we as outsiders think he made the right choice or the wrong choice (and the amount of split on that shows it obviously is a grey area) either way, this girl clearly isn't going to leave her man!!

 

I was rereading this thread on my lunch, and I feel a sense of connection with it. I can see my missus in OP's BF! Not beating two muggers up (although I dare say all 5"2 of her would give it a fair crack - and I for sure wouldnt want to be on her bad side ). But in some of this back story I can see her, and I can see our relationship - particularly when we were younger.

She was always good to me but sometimes decisions she made, or actions she took in reaction to situations, put a strain on our relationship (probably more than OP and her guy if they've only hit a curveball 18 months in).

She'd overreact.

She'd overreact because prior experience throughout her childhood up to that point had taught her that that was the best survival mechanism, that to under-react was to be avoided and to overreact was better!

You could call that PTSD, there was people who used to say she might be bipolar, you can say that this lad is 'unhinged'. You can call it whatever you want. Or you can say no s***! You can choose to understand that if kids grow up under that kind of stress, that if their unique character and mentality is placed under their set of unique conditions and environments, then of course in parts of their lives that will show!!

 

Read OP's posts on this thread - is it any great surprised that the guy who's mums died, who's been in care, watched his dad attacked, been attacked himself at 12, who's had his brother stabbed - that's SO full on! Is it any surprise that this guy, in these circumstances, reacts more strongly on average, when he perceives the person he loves to be in danger.

 

It blows my mind that anyone can think that makes him a bad person!

 

For what its worth, me and my wife are very happy, and settled. We have a beautiful family, and beautiful life together. Most of what caused us problems is firmly firmly in the past. My wife is without a doubt the heart of our family, and if we argue now, its most likely about who was supposed to get milk on the way home.

 

You can talk about therapy, you can say it could help this guy, but from all reading comprehension he copes very well in life, is under not emotional stress, and maybe he compartmentalises - but so what, that's his right. I can't see why he'd need it!

For some people its great, but not for all. My missus never got on with it! And years ago it didn't exist, people just learned to cope and adapt to their environment! That is what this man is doing!

 

You can think he's wrong, but that's not really the purpose of this thread. It's does this effect his relationship with OP. Which I can't imagine why it would!

He was considerate when she spoke to him. He made her feel better. In his normal life she sees zero signs of any aggression. Are they going to be in this situation again any time soon, highly unlikely.

 

Plus, as I said before.. she just ain't leaving him...

Hahahaha! Well now, he's got to ask me first hasnt he!

[Gaeta]

My guess too.

 

It just doesn't make sense to kill or seriously harm someone over some pocket money.

 

If they were violent and deadly criminals, they would be robbing the bank instead of 2 ladies.

You sound very naive. Every day innocent people get killed for less than pocket money in the US. You cannot compare your country to the US. They have thousands and thousands of murders a year. If you stand on the street in the US and a man shows you a hammer you better hit him first. You have no clue if he is in need of his fix and he'd kill you for $2, why take a chance? OP's boyfriend knows this!