Anecdote about male height and dating

[nospam99]

OP here. I agree that women that I might meet off OLD may not care about me (or any other guy) having four or more inches of height on them. However ...

 

- The PBS documentary that I have referred to several times reported a research conclusion that height is the primary physical characteristic that women use to assess a man's attractiveness

- Women know from my OLD profiles how tall I am. Only on match.com do I know if they have a height requirement (about 95% do) and what that requirement is

- While I have an overall 30% response rate to my OLD messages, I have a 0% response rate when sending messages to women who specify they are seeking men 5'10'' and taller (and the 30% is weighted down, not a lot, by the 0% for a segment of my sample which is included in the 30% total)

- The woman who I cited to start this anecdotal thread ignored my message on POF. She knew my height. I did not know when I sent a message to her on POF that she was seeking men 5'10'' and taller.

 

Based on the PBS research I mentioned (sorry, many years ago and no citation. but see https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1634963/ for corroborating research) and my personal experience with OLD, I see no way to conclude that height is anything but the single most important physical factor/feature in male attractiveness to women. This is NOT saying that other factors, including non-physical factors, don't matter or that short guys have no chance.

[thefooloftheyear]

170lbs at a height of 5'4" is quite fat.

 

My 48 year old 5'7" wife who has been pregnant on four occasions (2x kids), weighs 68kg (150lbs) and she is heavier than when we started dating during 1996.

 

No argument...

 

But even most women that are around your wife's size or maybe a bit heavier(I know some women with rockin bodies that are fairly heavy due to weight/strength training) will probably want a guy some 30-40 lbs heavier than they are...

 

If a guy that is small framed and slim, maybe 5'7-5'9" and 160 or so, without much muscle mass seeks out women like this, I could easily see them having some reservation..Not all...but many would...

 

TFY

[thefooloftheyear]

OP here. I agree that women that I might meet off OLD may not care about me (or any other guy) having four or more inches of height on them. However ...

 

- The PBS documentary that I have referred to several times reported a research conclusion that height is the primary physical characteristic that women use to assess a man's attractiveness

- Women know from my OLD profiles how tall I am. Only on match.com do I know if they have a height requirement (about 95% do) and what that requirement is

- While I have an overall 30% response rate to my OLD messages, I have a 0% response rate when sending messages to women who specify they are seeking men 5'10'' and taller (and the 30% is weighted down, not a lot, by the 0% for a segment of my sample which is included in the 30% total)

- The woman who I cited to start this anecdotal thread ignored my message on POF. She knew my height. I did not know when I sent a message to her on POF that she was seeking men 5'10'' and taller.

 

Based on the PBS research I mentioned (sorry, many years ago and no citation. but see https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1634963/ for corroborating research) and my personal experience with OLD, I see no way to conclude that height is anything but the single most important physical factor/feature in male attractiveness to women. This is NOT saying that other factors, including non-physical factors, don't matter or that short guys have no chance.

 

Id be leery of these conclusions...

 

I'm sure if the same question was asked of guys, they'd say that the primary physical characteristic that men use to assess a womans attractiveness, is that she look exactly like Abigail Ratchford...

 

Its just ideals...They aren't taking anything else into consideration...

 

I'd even argue that a 5'8" guy with a great body, broad shoulders, big arms, v taper, etc, would probably crush a 6' skinny or fat guy all day long if you polled a bunch of women on the street...So what are they really measuring it against??

 

TFY

[bathtub-row]

Another thing to consider....

 

I think many women use the height requirement as a way to prevent the women from actually being larger/heavier than the man...That is something I know is an issue for just about ALL women...

 

If you have a typical 5'4ish woman that is carrying some extra weight(average weight of American woman now 170#, btw) a relatively slim 5'8" guy will probably weigh less than her....That will bother her more than the height issue, imo...

 

But if that same 5'8" guy was a muscular/built 180 or 190 or better, than she won't have an issue...

 

Bottom line? It's not nearly as big a deal as some guys say, and the women that say they would never consider a guy less than "X" height, unless they are Amazon types, are usually lying....

 

TFY

 

Dear lord. If you guys want the lowdown on why women prefer tall men, it’s because they’re impressive to look at, and there’s a feeling of security that goes with their height. They also look strong and most women are attracted to strength. Guess why female runway models have to be tall. Yeah - impressive.

 

One of the men I was most crazy about was about 5’8” and I actually liked the way we fit together. I’m 5’2” so he was still tall to me. Height is just one factor. The biggest factors for me is the guy’s ability to make it in the world, that he has drive and goals and is really smart. Short, dumb and lazy would kill it. Tall, dumb and lazy would also kill it. Short, smart and driven - great. Throw in a dose of kindness and he’s the golden boy.

[thefooloftheyear]

Dear lord. If you guys want the lowdown on why women prefer tall men, it’s because they’re impressive to look at, and there’s a feeling of security that goes with their height. They also look strong and most women are attracted to strength. Guess why female runway models have to be tall. Yeah - impressive.

 

One of the men I was most crazy about was about 5’8” and I actually liked the way we fit together. I’m 5’2” so he was still tall to me. Height is just one factor. The biggest factors for me is the guy’s ability to make it in the world, that he has drive and goals and is really smart. Short, dumb and lazy would kill it. Tall, dumb and lazy would also kill it. Short, smart and driven - great. Throw in a dose of kindness and he’s the golden boy.

 

But you really just made my point...

 

It's never been a "hard" requirement, from any women I have known...Tall guys can be impressive(Dwayne Johnson, LeBron James, etc), but they can also look awkward and out of proportion, weak, or resemble a Shrek type of character...Nothing impressive or strong there...And there are plenty of "impressive" shorter guys...

 

The point being almost no women(especially ones who are below average or average size) have such a hard requirement, as the OP is indicating...

 

TFY

[nospam99]

I'm sure if the same question was asked of guys, they'd say that the primary physical characteristic that men use to assess a womans attractiveness, is that she look exactly like Abigail Ratchford.

 

The question was not asked directly. The methodology for the PBS study was to show photographs of several people and ask the research subjects to subjectively assess the attractiveness of the people in the photographs. The conclusion for the single physical characteristic that had the most impact on a woman being attractive to men was waist-to-hip ratio. I didn't read through https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1634963/ to understand the methodology, just the conclusion 'the present study showed that the volume height index (VHI) is the most important visual cue to male body attractiveness of young Chinese viewers among the many body parameters examined in the study.'

[ElKay]

My first boyfriend was 5'7 while I was 5'9. Before that, I used to say that I would never date someone shorter than me since I had a lot of self-esteem issues with my height. I lived in a province of Canada with a ton of short guys in school.

 

He was bulky (chubby with muscles) and didn't feel intimidated by my height, so this wasn't an issue for us when we were dating.

[nospam99]

I totally understand what those of you are saying who point out that, outside of OLD, women will sometimes accept shorter men as dating partners and more. I'm just throwing out my OLD experiences as examples of how female selectivity for male height plays out in that environment because I find it both interesting to observe and one factor in the 'challenge' of meeting women on OLD.

 

So I'm replying to my thread with an unusually extreme example: one of my Other Matches on match.com this morning is a 5'2'' woman whose 'looking for' height range bottoms out at 6'1''.

[5x5]

You know it's okay for individual women to not want to date men, for whatever reason they like.

 

As to your mention of a 5'2" woman wanting a 6'1" man, I don't think that's extreme at all.

 

My mother is 5'0", while my father is 6'0" and they seem to still get on after being married for 48 years.

 

That said I don't know why you carry on so much about this, when you're the one limiting yourself.

 

While ever you keep doing the same things and behaving the same way, you're going to keep getting the same results.

 

If you don't like being turned down for your height, then stop going after women who want men that are taller than you.

 

Likewise if online dating is not the working for you, go out and start actually asking women out in person.

 

This really isn't hard at all.

[gaius]

You keep a log of all the women you make contact with on old?

 

Life is finite. You can either let PBS dictate to you that women are going to find you less attractive because you're not seven feet tall and assume that's why women don't reply to you. Or you can throw out the log, get aggressive and go after what you want with little shame.

 

If I was doing OLD and that woman was someone I really wanted to get to know I would have waited a few months and then sent her another message, trying something else. The first time I interacted with my wife she ended up totally annoyed with me. Didn't give up at the first ego slight and now I have my dream girl in my bed every night.

[nospam99]

5x5 and gaius, I started this thread to discuss the impact of male height on women's actions on OLD. I don't want to have an argument about my personal actions on OLD but I'm responding because I feel that the two of you are 'casting shade' on me and I'm going to 'push back' with the intention of doing so only once.

 

OLD IS 'working for me' in that I am meeting women who are LTR candidates. Any objections I have about OLD as an In Search OF tool are related to business practices, not that I have not met and continue to meet women. This thread is supposed to be about the behavior of SOME of the women whose profiles I've seen on OLD. The 'results' I'm getting by 'doing the same things the same way' are satisfactory.

I am 'limiting myself' only by not contacting women whose profiles explicitly say that there is something about me that does not meet their requirements. In addition to height, I don't contact women when I don't meet their age, location, body type (my body is NOT 'athletic'), income, or religion requirements. I can 'live with' the possibility that I 'missed out' by not contacting one of the many women who in one way or another indicated they would not be interested in me.

 

Female preference for male height is reasonably well documented. In addition to the PBS study that I only remember from years ago, I provided a citation in this thread about another study that reached a similar conclusion. I haven't 'cranked the data', but my own experience (0% vs 30% response rate with the height requirement being the independent variable) is superficially enough to 'reject the null hypothesis' 'women do not distinguish male attractiveness based on height'.

 

I don't 'go after women who want taller men'.

 

For me, 'actually asking women out in person' IS hard because I rarely meet women outside of OLD. And if I were to ask the rare women I meet out in person, I wouldn't have the OLD 'advantages' of having indications of their relationship status, their interests, and what they are 'looking for' in a man. Folks like the two of you may be comfortable with cold approaches to women who you don't know anything about. I consider that behavior to be creepy. Not walking up and grabbing her by the ass creepy, but one or two steps below. I don't 'do' creepy.

 

Finally, I have on occasion 'sent a second message after waiting a few months'. I've only done this if I judged the woman's profile to indicate that I could expect her to be interested in meeting me. In all cases, I got the same response as on the previous message, that is to say no response.

 

Now, could we discuss WOMEN limiting themselves on OLD by not responding unless the man who contacted them is some arbitrary amount taller?

Edited November 21, 2018 by nospam99

[Artdeco]

Height has never been important to me. In fact, I have had the best relationships or encounters with guys who were on the shorter side if you wanna call it that. But I haven’t even consciously noticed that until now that it is being brought up in a thread. It’s always been the wits and the smarts and the personality that I was attracted to.

[elaine567]

This is surely not just a OLD phenomenon.

Most woman on meeting a man IRL can suss out his height and will apply her own personal filters accordingly.

If height is important to her she will disregard and discount those men who do not meet her criteria.

Nothing new there.

 

Yes, applying filters could be seen as limiting, but it is also pragmatic as who wants to waste time with anybody they do not see as a potential match.

[thefooloftheyear]

This is surely not just a OLD phenomenon.

Most woman on meeting a man IRL can suss out his height and will apply her own personal filters accordingly.

If height is important to her she will disregard and discount those men who do not meet her criteria.

Nothing new there.

 

Yes, applying filters could be seen as limiting, but it is also pragmatic as who wants to waste time with anybody they do not see as a potential match.

 

It's only limiting to the one's that probably wouldn't have passed muster, even if they were tall...

 

I still say, these things(especially with women, btw) are normally not so rigid, and women are notorious for moving the goal posts on these "filters"..If I had a dollar for every time I heard a woman say something like.."I usually date athlete types, and this guy is soft, but he is really awesome, and we are getting along great!"...There are also women, that have spent their lives dating "whatever" type, then see a guy getting out of a Ferrari, and all of a sudden he is her ideal type, despite not being who she says is her type...

 

I just don't think the OP can take a lack of response from a typical woman on OLD as a rejection for lack of height, despite it being something she lists on a profile...It could just mean that he wasn't enough to generate the type of interest that would allow the goalpost move...While its certainly possible, its not been my experience...Not with "typical" sized women...If we were talking about a 5'8" 185# woman, then I would be more inclined to believe it was the height, understandably...

 

TFY

[elaine567]

I still say, these things(especially with women, btw) are normally not so rigid, and women are notorious for moving the goal posts on these "filters"..If I had a dollar for every time I heard a woman say something like.."I usually date athlete types, and this guy is soft, but he is really awesome, and we are getting along great!"...There are also women, that have spent their lives dating "whatever" type, then see a guy getting out of a Ferrari, and all of a sudden he is her ideal type, despite not being who she says is her type..

 

 

Oh definitely, "filters" are not set in stone and can easily be discarded for the right man.

That is the sensible approach, flexibility is key.

 

See what you like and grab it.

[Wallysbears]

Back when I was OLD, I was *very* specific in who I would return messages of and I clearly spelled that out on my profile.

 

As (then) an attractive, professional single woman with no kids - I would get SO many messages it was ridiculous.

 

I didn't want to date men who:

 

were less than 6' tall (I'm 5'10")

were either too thin or too heavy

had been married/had children from prior relationships

did not have a career/financial stability

smoked or drank excessively

were overly athletic/spent a significant portion of their time focusing on fitness

 

So I simply did not reply to anyone that didn't meet my criteria.

 

The experience that men have OLD is vastly different than the experience women have.

[Shining One]

I just don't think the OP can take a lack of response from a typical woman on OLD as a rejection for lack of height, despite it being something she lists on a profile...It could just mean that he wasn't enough to generate the type of interest that would allow the goalpost move...While its certainly possible, its not been my experience...

It's a fairly reasonable assumption on Match at least. They have filters that will automatically delete messages from users who don't meet the recipient's requirements. Thus, it's quite likely the woman in question never saw the OP's message or profile. You can't make an exception for a message or a profile you never saw. It's for this reason that some men lie about their height (and sometimes other attributes) on dating sites. They are trying to bypass the filter to get their message and profile viewed so they can possibly be an exception.

[thefooloftheyear]

It's a fairly reasonable assumption on Match at least. They have filters that will automatically delete messages from users who don't meet the recipient's requirements. Thus, it's quite likely the woman in question never saw the OP's message or profile. You can't make an exception for a message or a profile you never saw. It's for this reason that some men lie about their height (and sometimes other attributes) on dating sites. They are trying to bypass the filter to get their message and profile viewed so they can possibly be an exception.

 

I know nothing of OLD....If that's the case, it has no basis in reality to what's happening in the real world and probably one of the many reason's women are frustrated and bitter of the process of OLD...They expect success, when they apply "filters" they'd probably never apply if just meeting someone on the street..

 

If they(guys) are lying for that reason, I am quite sure a woman would probably forgive that "lie" if the guy is what they want...Like I said, this is normally what happens in the real world, anyway..

 

Out of curiosity, can a guy also apply filters for weight and/or dress size??

 

 

TFY

[elaine567]

If they(guys) are lying for that reason, I am quite sure a woman would probably forgive that "lie" if the guy is what they want...Like I said, this is normally what happens in the real world, anyway..

 

I think that is the theory but many women see lying as a big fault and finding men that are 4-6" shorter than their "filter", does not go down well, nor does shaving years off their age nor any other white lies.

"If he can lie about his height what else can he lie about..." is the attitude.

 

 

No-one IRL would say "I am 6'" if it was obvious to everyone he was 5'6, so why lie online, it is not as if he will get away with it... one glance and she will know right away. It is not a good start.

[Wallysbears]

I think that is the theory but many women see lying as a big fault and finding men that are 4-6" shorter than their "filter", does not go down well, nor does shaving years off their age nor any other white lies.

"If he can lie about his height what else can he lie about..." is the attitude.

 

 

No-one IRL would say "I am 6'" if it was obvious to everyone he was 5'6, so why lie online, it is not as if he will get away with it... one glance and she will know right away. It is not a good start.

 

 

Exactly.

 

Why lie?

 

And moreso...if a woman, OLD, is being flat out honest about not being interested in dating men that are short, fat, bald, <whatever> then why would a guy want to try to change her mind?

 

She's telling you that she doesn't find that type attractive.

[Shining One]

Out of curiosity, can a guy also apply filters for weight and/or dress size??

Dress size and weight are not data fields, so men can't filter by those. There is a body type field, but many women use the "About average" option, which technically isn't lying considering what's average in America these days.

[Shining One]

I think that is the theory but many women see lying as a big fault and finding men that are 4-6" shorter than their "filter", does not go down well, nor does shaving years off their age nor any other white lies.

"If he can lie about his height what else can he lie about..." is the attitude.

 

 

No-one IRL would say "I am 6'" if it was obvious to everyone he was 5'6, so why lie online, it is not as if he will get away with it... one glance and she will know right away. It is not a good start.

Exactly.

 

Why lie?

 

And moreso...if a woman, OLD, is being flat out honest about not being interested in dating men that are short, fat, bald, <whatever> then why would a guy want to try to change her mind?

 

She's telling you that she doesn't find that type attractive.

When I was struggling with OLD, several of my female friends suggested lying about my height as a way to improve my results. In my case, it would be changing my 5'11" to 6', which is a popular cutoff point for women.

[elaine567]

When I was struggling with OLD, several of my female friends suggested lying about my height as a way to improve my results. In my case, it would be changing my 5'11" to 6', which is a popular cutoff point for women.

 

 

I think you may have been able to get away with that one as it is only an inch, but maybe not...

Some women really want 6'+ so you would have struggled there.

[Wallysbears]

When I was struggling with OLD, several of my female friends suggested lying about my height as a way to improve my results. In my case, it would be changing my 5'11" to 6', which is a popular cutoff point for women.

 

 

See, now that's reasonable IMHO because it isn't a gigantic difference. Much like how a real estate agent would tell you to price a home at 324K instead of 325K when you are trying to sell it.

 

There is a world of difference between someone 5'11" putting down 6' vs. someone 5'8" putting down 6'.

[thefooloftheyear]

I think that is the theory but many women see lying as a big fault and finding men that are 4-6" shorter than their "filter", does not go down well, nor does shaving years off their age nor any other white lies.

"If he can lie about his height what else can he lie about..." is the attitude.

 

 

No-one IRL would say "I am 6'" if it was obvious to everyone he was 5'6, so why lie online, it is not as if he will get away with it... one glance and she will know right away. It is not a good start.

 

Well...of course, a 5'6" guy would look like an idiot if she had a greater than 6' "limit" and he thought he could subvert that...

 

But that also means that guys who are 5'8-5'11" would still be considered "out" even though in my experience, no woman would out someone they really liked. based on some 2" of height....It would NEVER happen...

 

So, in that case, it's not really lying...I would consider lying someone posting a photo from 20 years ago and 40 lbs ago, and expecting someone to believe its them...

 

But alas...again..OLD? No experience there...About all I can say I know of OLD is a lot of people crying that they cant find anyone "good"....

 

TFY