Estranged Daughter Wants To Come For Thanksgiving

[Mr. Lucky]

Boy, how do I reduce 10 years of pain and heartbreak to one post?

 

My 30-yr old daughter has been a user, both of drugs and people, for a decade. As a result, she's burned every bridge, not a single friend, former co-worker, ex boyfriend or roommate wants anything to do with her. The same pretty much applies to her siblings and other family members, she's simply worn them out with manipulation and drama. She's been in and out of rehab multiple times, never committed enough to make it work.

 

We had our latest falling out when she stole $10K from us a year ago by selling a car we provided her and running off to the Caribbean. Didn't speak to us for months until her roommates kicked her out over drug and money issues, no surprise. Broke and homeless, she called my wife, who flew her home on the condition she enter rehab yet again. And once again, she left the in-patient program before completion.

 

When we questioned this and other choices (BF who's also in rehab, etc.), she cut us off, declaring "she only wanted to be with people who believed in her". We've had very little contact with her in the last 6 months.

 

Out of the blue, she texts my wife this weekend asking if she can come over for Thanksgiving. Apparently she's started rehab again and wants to also bring a friend who has no family here. I said no, not wanting to have to count the silverware after she's been here. My wife, desperate for any relationship with her, wants me to reconsider.

 

Trust me, there's lots I've left out. But I'm interested in any thoughts on accountability vs forgiveness...

 

Mr. Lucky

[carhill]

I've always found the general differences between fathers and mothers regarding children to be interesting, even allowing for fathers tending to be more protective of daughters than sons.

 

I tend to side with you on this based on the story offered. DD may find her way to clean and sober and trustworthy someday but she's still on that journey and proven to be unhealthy to have on the home front.

 

Do they allow visitors at the rehab? If yes, sharing a bit of family time on Thanksgiving can be handled that way. Stay on track. Home perhaps later in the journey.

[amaysngrace]

People can change. Maybe she’s changed and you wouldn’t even know it because you haven’t spoken to her in so long.

 

I feel badly for people who struggle with addiction. Most people don’t view them as the person that they are, they only see them as their illness. To me it’s a vicious cycle where they are looked down upon for not valuing themselves by the very ones who value them so little.

 

Yes she sold the car and I can see why you’d be angry about that but why did you think it was a good idea to give the title to a car to a person who struggles with addiction?

 

Regardless, you’ve put a price on her. To her she is worth less than $10,000.

[basil67]

I have no advice Mr Lucky. Honestly, I can't begin to imagine having to make this decision. I hope whatever you decide works well for you.

[darkmoon]

accountability and forgiveness

 

 

you need to spend time with her to see what she says and does, maybe she has changed

 

 

you might be glad of her when you are v old and she makes sure you are ok

[starlight8]

Boy, how do I reduce 10 years of pain and heartbreak to one post?

 

<SNIP>

 

Why not first suggest a smaller meeting...something like, going for hot chocolate in a neutral place like a coffee shop.

That way, you don't have to worry about what will be missing by the end of the evening, and also it will allow you to really see where she is at and how much she has really changed and not risk a big event like thanksgiving on which to find out that result. Also, trust doesn't just come back in an instant - daughter or not - if it has been broken, it needs to be rebuilt. Anything else and your daughter will immediately interpret it as 'boundary-less dad will be there'.

 

I disagree with some of the posters on here about forgiveness blah blah blah.

Forgiveness can be done from afar. It's so very easy and idealistic to want to have a picture-perfect view of it, but situations like yours are very complex.

You can forgive without having to risk a nice holiday ruined - or your belongings and trust - taken yet again.

Edited November 21, 2018 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[starlight8]

accountability and forgiveness

 

 

you need to spend time with her to see what she says and does, maybe she has changed

 

 

you might be glad of her when you are v old and she makes sure you are ok

 

This is ridiculous.

Forgiving continuous bad, hurtful behaviour for a future POSSIBLE benefit that you can be looked after is a ridiculous excuse to put up with nonsense. And its not even guaranteed. What if she DOESN'T change and doesn't want to make sure he is ok when he is older? He has put up with strife for nothing?

[bathtub-row]

I agree that giving her a car wasn’t the best idea, knowing her history. Aside from that, it was hers which means it was hers to do with as she chose. Having said all that however my biggest pet peeve are drug users and I’d proceed with caution until she has a proven track record of stability. Nor would I give her carte blanche to bring a potential druggie friend to my home so that he can case the joint.

 

The best case scenario is that I’d do what someone else suggested - meet with her first, but the friend would have to be there too. Then make a decision. If it were me, I’d say she needs to show a history of stability and she hasn’t done that. Druggies love to throw out the “I’m in rehab” thing to appease others but I think she needs to learn that her behavior has consequences. The comment about people believing in her shows just how far off the mark she can get.

 

I’m sorry you’re going through this. That’s got to be tough.

Edited November 19, 2018 by bathtub-row

[d0nnivain]

Forgiveness is hard & with a recurring druggie you practically have to be a saint.

 

I'm trying to get back in touch with my own religion so I'm going to answer your Q from that perspective. I am not suggesting you believe what I believe but this is my take:

 

The Lord's Prayer contains these lines: forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us. The Bible suggests that one cannot be forgiven unless that person is willing to forgive and the Beatitudes talk about serving the least among us. That has to include addicts.

 

Forgiving however is not being vulnerable, naïve or stupid. It is Thanksgiving. In that spirit offer to meet your daughter & her friend somewhere neutral. Bring her a bag full of cooked Thanksgiving food (even if you have to spend $30+ to buy it ready made at a grocery store hot food bar). See her. Hear her out. If you are feeling generous, give her money for a hotel room for the night or weekend (you pay the venue directly) but there is no need to bring her into you home until she earns that right back again by getting & staying clean. She's not there yet. If you said she finished rehab, my take might be a bit softer.

 

Tough love still has to be about love & second (3rd, 5th 29th) chances.

 

Best wishes.

[Mr. Lucky]

Thank you all for your feedback.

 

Regardless, you’ve put a price on her. To her she is worth less than $10,000.

 

The details on the car aren't important, it's but one of many examples of times she's put us through the ringer. Her "price" would be well into six figures, much more than we've spent on our other kids, all of whom are responsible, healthy adults.

 

Regardless, my wife agreed to the suggestion given here to a lower-key meeting at a coffee shop and, after texting her, got this response - "Never mind, I'll find somewhere else to go for Thanksgiving and Christmas. This really hurts, I won't forget it".

 

So once again, since we won't do what she wants, we're out. So be it...

 

Mr. Lucky

[d0nnivain]

You can only meet somebody half way if they too are willing to compromise. Your daughter isn't.

 

Don't give up on her but don't give in to her either.

[Ronni_W]

But I'm interested in any thoughts on accountability vs forgiveness...

Hugs, Mr. Lucky, to you, your wife and your family.

 

I think that holding adults accountable so that they face all the negative consequences of all their own negative behaviour, choices and decisions

does not necessarily mean that we do not forgive them their human frailties, only that, at the same time, we are not willing to tolerate their misbehaviour and mistreatment or enable them in any way.

 

Wishing all of you the very best.

[bathtub-row]

Wow! I can’t believe she responded that way. Well, I guess you got your answer as to her level of maturity. It’s just not there. Can you imagine what thanksgiving would’ve been like with her and the friend there? I think you dodged a bullet.

[amaysngrace]

Regardless, my wife agreed to the suggestion given here to a lower-key meeting at a coffee shop and, after texting her, got this response - "Never mind, I'll find somewhere else to go for Thanksgiving and Christmas. This really hurts, I won't forget it".

 

So once again, since we won't do what she wants, we're out. So be it...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

It doesn’t seem like she’s recovered much. I’ve never done the steps but I believe humbling yourself to people you’ve wronged is a part of that. Her reply to her Mom sounds like she’s trying to tug at her heart strings and give her the guilts.

 

I’m very sad that you’re in this situation but I think you’re doing the right thing by not enabling her any further. You offered her an olive branch but it seems she wants the whole dang tree.

 

I guess the word “user” has multiple meanings.

 

Peace and hugs Mr. Lucky, to you and your Misses.

[BaileyB]

you need to spend time with her to see what she says and does, maybe she has changed

 

I think they have done this, many times. Sadly, this is a pattern and their daughter has demonstrated time and time again that her word is not to be trusted...

 

I'm sorry. I can appreciate how hard this is, for you and for your wife. I don't have any advice, but if I had to... I think I would say no, tell her that the door is always open after she has completed rehab and when she is clean and sober.

[Simple Logic]

I realize the situation sucks, but I agree with your wife. It has nothing to do with either accountability or forgiveness. You say she has been in and out of rehab. At least she is trying. Relapse and failure are a part of the process. She may never succeed and give up, but at least now she keeps trying. I doubt a good meal and some positive encouragement will make a huge difference to either of your lives that day, but I can’t see where you are out much.

Edited November 19, 2018 by Simple Logic

[BaileyB]

Don't give up on her but don't give in to her either.

 

Well said.

 

My heart breaks for you and your wife.

[bathtub-row]

I realize the situation sucks, but I agree with your wife. It has nothing to do with either accountability or forgiveness. You say she has been in and out of rehab. At least she is trying. Relapse and failure are a part of the process. She may never succeed and give up, but at least now she keeps trying. I doubt a good meal and some positive encouragement will make a huge difference to either of your lives that day, but I can’t see where you are out much.

 

Thankfully, I don’t have any drug abusers in my family (that I’m aware of) but just learning about this from people I know whose family members are like this, you have no idea how completely manipulative they can be. Every word they utter is centered around drugs and how to con others. And they’re very good at this game. I know of someone who even did drugs with her kid, another who lost custody of her children, and stole from her parents. They have no shame and will go to whatever lengths necessary to get what they want. Plain and simple, they cannot be trusted and they put their families through hell.

[Mr. Lucky]

You say she has been in and out of rehab. At least she is trying. Relapse and failure are a part of the process.

 

The last two times she's gone to rehab, it's been because she had no other place to go, the choice was either treatment or homelessness. Roommates or BF had kicked her out for drug and/or financial reasons, we wouldn't take her back in and if she didn't check into the Salvation Army program she'd be on the street.

 

Unfortunately, there's a big difference between those that want rehab and those that need it. When we'd visit her, it was non-stop complaining about the program, what losers the other participants were and how unfairly she was being treated. Missing was any gratitude for the (free!) services these organizations provide for people like her that have exhausted every other option. And both times, she bolted before program was done.

 

So, at least recently, I'm not sure how much trying has been involved...

 

Mr. Lucky

[starlight8]

Thank you all for your feedback.

 

 

 

The details on the car aren't important, it's but one of many examples of times she's put us through the ringer. Her "price" would be well into six figures, much more than we've spent on our other kids, all of whom are responsible, healthy adults.

 

Regardless, my wife agreed to the suggestion given here to a lower-key meeting at a coffee shop and, after texting her, got this response - "Never mind, I'll find somewhere else to go for Thanksgiving and Christmas. This really hurts, I won't forget it".

 

 

So once again, since we won't do what she wants, we're out. So be it...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

Wow.

I hope you fully appreciate how you have done the right thing - despite the many times it's blown up in your face - and how big of a deal that is, despite her reaction.

 

Let me tell you, I am near enough your daughter's age and I'm looking to spending a christmas and new years alone - not because I'm a drug addict who has pushed away my family - but because my father passed away many years ago and my mother loves to demean, abuse and manipulate everybody. Her idea of christmases and birthday when I was growing up was to lock the doors so nobody could go out and have any kind of fun and then berate us all. I would DO LITERALLY ANYTHING to have parents like you and your wife. She is so incredibly lucky, I wish people like your daughter can fathom the magnitude of what they have.

 

In my opinion, you did the right thing: you offered an olive branch, in a smart way that does not risk you being taken advantage of. Her response shows she had something else in mind, and also she threw in some emotional manipulation there 'I'll have to find somewhere else for christmas...' (woe is me, boo hoo hoo) - how about - let's first meet in a coffee shop, see how it goes, and if all goes well, we can consider christmas?! That's her choice and her right to make stupid decisions - she'll have to reap what she sows.

 

Meanwhile, I hope you and your wife have a lovely christmas and new years

[preraph]

You could let her come, but you ARE going to have to watch the silverware and you and your wife first need to agree not to give her any money or anything else. I don't think your wife will agree to that. Whoever gave her a car is the weak link here in enabling her. You can NOT give her things and still let her come to Thanksgiving. But if one of you is going to cave in to her wanting things while there, say no.

[OldLady]

I’m a long time lurker and don’t post much but our youngest daughter had an addiction problem for at least 5 years that we are aware of. I estimate we have lost about$100,000 trying to “save” her. She lost her friends, family members, her house, her job and her car which we sold when she was in jail.

 

There were periods of time she wasn’t allowed at our home. We even had all the locks changed. My husband was always trying to help her out hoping she would get better. And me, I was the tough love parent. I got tired of seeing our hard earned money wasted. We had many disagreements over several years. And some heated arguments.

 

My husband finally closed the checkbook after many disappointments. Thank goodness. What I’m trying to say is that you and your wife must present a united front and draw a line in the sand of what you will no longer tolerate. And don’t feel guilty about it. Some people cannot be saved. What I have learned is that addiction is stronger than any amount of love.

 

As a side note, I have always enjoyed your postings. They are so spot on and some have made me really see the light I didn’t want to see. I haven’t told my story...not yet anyway..maybe someday. But thank you for your participation.

[Mr. Lucky]

I haven’t told my story...not yet anyway..maybe someday. But thank you for your participation.

 

I hope you decide someday to share your story. As you've identified, you get feedback that can sometimes knock you out of your comfort zone, a somewhat disconcerting experience. And yet anything that promotes thoughtful analysis, even if you don't agree, can be ultimately helpful.

 

Glad you posted...

 

Mr. Lucky

[submart]

I'm sorry for you and your wife Mr. Lucky. Like you and others said there is a lot of manipulation, pain, relapses and well more manipulation that goes along with an addiction.

 

I'm so glad you and your wife do not enable her. Clear boundaries are important no matter how hard it is. Unfortunately, she is not ready to do the hard work required for recovery. You can't force it and no amount of love can make her ready.

 

Sometimes people who experience a lot of consequences as a result of their addiction become ready. But not always. She knows where to go when she is ready.

 

Addiction is probably just part of what is going on with her. I'm not a doctor, but there are likely other mental health issues involved. These issues can make people even more resistant to treatment.

 

Keep doing what you are doing. Living your life.

 

I have two brothers with addictions who are a few years older than your daughter. I am a therapist who works in the addiction field. You think I could help them? Not so. I can only help people who are ready and willing to change.

[Mr. Lucky]

I can only help people who are ready and willing to change.

 

I wish there was a shortcut to this hard-earned - and expensive! - lesson for addicts and those who love them.

 

I’ve certainly been guilty of being a slow learner...

 

Mr. Lucky