Ugh, NC never gets any easier

February 22, 2019

[quote=TooMuch2Ask;7741801

During your last conversation with your ex, how did the conversation end? I know you said you had confronted him about the person he was seeing but when you confronted and he deflected did you end the conversation then?

Do you feel closer to being able to put yourself back out there emotionally for dating than you did a month ago? Have you thought of putting yourself on a time table or do you feel like that's too much pressure?

Our last conversation was over text. I found out about this woman that appeared to be seeing him. She had a lot of photos on her Facebook going on trips and under one picture said that she was with her "fella". When someone asked her who it was, she said my ex. There weren't any pictures of him in any of the posts, so I wasn't 100% positive, but it seemed like it. I texted him and told him he wasn't the person I thought he was. Our last conversation before that had been very positive and he was checking in on me after I had surgery a few prior. So it was a bit out of the blue. He seemed surprised at first and asked what he had done to upset me. I wasn't going to answer at first, but he texted again and asked me to please tell him and said that he hated that I was upset with him. I told him he should have told me he had a girlfriend. We had just been on a trip together (not alone, but with a group on a medical mission trip -- this is where we met) and I told him he had ample opportunity to tell me. I had so wanted to spend time with him when we were there and sensed that he was avoiding me. I told him this and said I felt stupid for still caring about him. He wrote back and said he didn't have a girlfriend while we were there so there wasn't anything to tell. He said he cared about me too and didn't feel stupid about it.

I wrote back and said he could have told me at any time and that I felt like a speed bump for him after his divorce until he found someone he wanted to be with and that it was extremely painful. He answered that he couldn't believe that I felt that way and that he had never thought of me that way. Then he said "I'm a little curious who you think I'm seeing" and said he was sorry if he had hurt me at all. Said he hoped I was healing well and that my Dad was doing ok (my Dad is being treated for cancer). It took me 2 days to write back because I was so upset, but I answered that I couldn't understand how he didn't know who I was talking about because they had been traveling so much together. No response from him. That was all I heard from him until a month later when he sent me a text saying that he hoped I had had a good Thanksgiving and that he had read an article I wrote and that it was great. I didn't answer that.

I now think he thought that there was no way that I would know who he is/was dating because he thought he was covering himself by not allowing her to post any pictures. I almost drove myself crazy trying to understand what his cryptic remark "I'm a little curious who you think I'm seeing" meant. I thought I might have been wrong. Until I went back to this woman's page about a month ago and saw that she had apparently posted a picture of the two of them with the caption "Facebook official!" -- that had then been removed. Under the comments, someone asked why she hadn't posted any pictures of him before and she said that he was paranoid about social media (LOL). That's when I realized what was going on. And that I wasn't crazy.

It still stings to think about him being so shady. This behavior is not the person I knew and I still can't wrap my head around it. I can't understand why he's trying to keep it a secret. It is heart breaking that he took up with her but continued to keep in touch with me. Of course, he's single and can date who he wants. But he knew how crazy I was about him. He should have told me, no matter how much it would have sucked. Of course, I'm sure he knew I would be upset and likely would stop talking to him. But it wound up that way anyway.

I've been feeling a lot better recently, mostly because I've been trying to keep busy. That helps. I'm traveling to see my best friend tomorrow and looking forward to it. She brings out the best in me. Time really is the best healer in all this and I'm grateful I took the step to pull away from him and to stop trying to keep him in my life. It still sucks a lot sometimes and I still feel very sad, but on balance I feel so much better.

Don't be hard on yourself. I think I said this before, but my therapist is encouraging me to think about times in this more recent relationship and in my previous one where I was ashamed or upset with how I acted. We're working on showing that person some love. I keep seeing things where people say "You have to love yourself before you can find a healthy relationship" and I really want this. So that's where I'm starting. I don't have the heart to get online to date, but I am focusing on meeting some female girlfriends. I'd love to have people to just do things with. I much more prefer the idea of meeting someone organically to online, so I've got to put myself in that position.

How was the work week? I hope you're hanging in there. It really does get better, although it is a slow, slow, slow process.

February 22, 2019

@nola

It's amazing what our guts tell us without "seeing" anything isn't it?? What made you start digging around and look at her page in the first place? I know some people say not to go back and look at social media etc but I think that was definitely the thing to do in this situation as now you know for sure you weren't crazy! The shadiness hurts way more than if he had come out and just told you the truth from the start. It takes a while to get over the hurt from that kind of betrayal. It definitely creates self-doubt but I think that working on loving yourself is the way to mending that hurt. I imagine that he hasn't contacted yet because he knows exactly what he did and how wrong it was. It's hard for a lot of people to be humble and admit they were wrong, especially when he knows how you felt about him. If he contacted you with a long apology, etc do you think you would respond? Have you decided you are going to be no contact forever or are you on the fence? I'm really in awe that you are in such a good place after that situation. I know you've done a lot of work to get here and it hasn't been easy but there is a lot to be proud of. A lot of people would have continued to contact to get an explanation and would have responded to the text at Thanksgiving. It says a lot about your self-esteem and self-love that you didn't. Just my opinion.

Work went well this week. I didn't see him Tuesday or Wednesday (I didn't go into the office either of those days - worked in the field). I saw him for 2 seconds yesterday when he came into the copy room while I was talking with another co worker. We made eye contact and said "hey". That was it. It felt ok - way better than Monday. I left shortly after that and went the long way out of the office so I didn't have to pass his cubicle and chance him trying to talk to me. Haven't texted in 16 days and have only had one conversation in the office this past Monday (pleasantries, etc). Monday was the only really rough day I've had this week. So I'm definitely a believer that the more distance I get the better it is. The only saving grace for me right now is that I wasn't dreaming of riding off into the sunset with him so that makes it a little more bearable. I need to continue working on reconfiguring my boundaries so something like this doesn't happen with a coworker again.

I'm so glad you're going to visit your best friend this weekend! That will be fantastic for you. I'm with you on meeting people organically. I met the new guy through friends. It has been so much better than online dating... I do think online dating helped me get back out there, so to speak. I hadn't dated in many years because I was married so it helped build my confidence in the new dating world (which is wayyyyy different). I hope you have a fantastic weekend!

February 23, 2019

Good for you for having a better end to the week! I cannot imagine having to see my ex all the time. Or that the possibility would be there. I think I would have an ulcer in no time!! I'm glad he's keeping his distance a bit from you. Or at least it seems that way.

I honestly don't know what I would do if my ex came back. I do think he probably feels terrible that he hurt my feelings. Despite his shady behavior, I don't think he's some kind of psychopath and was genuinely concerned about some things in my life in the weeks before I found out. So I do think that he probably doesn't feel great that he hurt me. I think if he apologized after some time has passed, I would be open to forgiving him. I still have a long way to go though. This whole thing has really affected how I see myself, relationships, and everything. I feel so small sometimes when I think of him and his new girlfriend together. I feel like she is so much better than I am and that really stings. But I'm working on it.

As far as NC, I'm keeping it up as long as I need to. My friend and I were talking about it and she said that if he said something worthwhile (like an apology or even a real addressing of what happened), I could review if I felt like I could talk to him again. And I like that idea. I know that I'm not ready, so for now I keep NC, even though it's hard and I think about him all the time.

What about you? Have you thought of more of a long term plan? Do you feel like you want to have another conversation with him for closure or are you intending to keep things in the place that they're in now (kind of open ended, with neither one of you reaching out)? I wonder if keeping that door open even a crack keeps you from moving forward with your new guy? I really feel like the hope is the hardest to let go of. It's the last connection we have to them.

Thank you for saying I'm strong. I haven't felt it lately, so that was really nice to read.

February 24, 2019

@nola

He's definitely keeping his distance. I tend to think it's for selfish reasons - it got to be too much for him etc. as opposed to him keeping his distance because it's what he knows he should do so I can see where this other relationship goes and because he knows he can't give me a relationship like I would want. I feel if he wanted to contact me or talk to me he would. The thought that it doesn't really bother him to not be in contact with me definitely helps me stay in no contact.

I have spent a lot of time thinking about if I want to have another conversation with him for definite closure. For now, I just really don't want to. It probably has a lot to do with my pride. I don't want to be the one that cares the most and if I were to reach out for closure it would make me feel like that. The point you make about not having closure keeps it open ended is something I haven't thought of. I guess maybe I feel like it's not open ended right now because, for me, it's over. He made it clear that he doesn't want any of the physical contact anymore either and wants to just be friends. So I guess that was closure. He didn't say "I can't handle it right now, maybe in the future" he said he didn't want it anymore period and hasn't made any moves to bring it back. I could be wrong but I don't think he will try and get back together with me in that respect. I just don't. I do feel like we're in a weird space because we aren't even communicating as friends. I know the reason I'm not is because it's too fresh for me right now and I clearly don't have boundaries with him so I have to walk away completely in order to protect myself and move on with my life. It has been a really big step for me not to go by his office at all or stop and chat with him. Huge step actually. I feel really good about where I am right now. I had a really good weekend and I have thought about him way less as the days go by. I think if we were in an actual relationship or if I felt that we were headed into relationship territory I would feel much differently about having closure. I think, for now, my long term plan is to continue no contact and if he texts me I'm going to ignore it. If I see him in the office I will be polite but I will take the long way out of the office when he's there. It is definitely better when I don't see him.

In regards to your ex, I think you're spot on. I don't think he intentionally hurt you. I agree. I don't think most of the emotionally unavailable men set out to hurt us but ultimately that's what happens. Does he live close to the woman he is seeing now? Social media tends to pain the perfect picture of relationships but I am not fooled. The fact that she can't post pictures and has to take pictures down after she posts them can't make her feel good. She has to feel like something is wrong with that, even if she doesn't admit it. If she didn't have a problem with it she wouldn't be posting anything at all ever, she would just respect his wishes and keep it moving. I know it's easier said than done to think of things in these terms but I'm glad that you found all of this out about him before you met his kids, or before you moved in together etc. I know it still sucks, nothing except time and distance will change that. But this opens you up to finding someone else who you can build an authentic relationship with. Like I said, I know this doesn't really help because you know all of that.

I hope you will begin to see yourself as strong because you definitely are. I'm sure you've seen many other threads where people have a hard time with no contact and go back and forth with contacting their ex. Wash, rinse, repeat. You haven't done any of that. It's quite remarkable to be honest. I've thought that several times when reading your posts. In my situation, it's probably easier for me to be in no contact because I do get to see him and even if we don't communicate it is still contact because I know he's doing ok. You don't have any of that so your situation would be harder for me than mine. It's funny how both of us feel that way about the other situation isn't it??

How was your weekend? I hope you had a fantastic time with your best friend! What did you guys do? I think it's great that she's such a support for you - deciding what you will or won't respond to when he contacts again is perfect. It allows you to keep moving on and not focus on the "what ifs".

Edited February 25, 2019 by TooMuch2Ask

February 26, 2019

@TooMuch2Ask, this is a MASSIVE over-generalization, but I think it holds pretty true that men are much better at compartmentalizing. When they are at work, they're at work. They can tune other things out and just focus on that. When they don't want to deal with an emotion or feeling, they are much better at pushing it down and putting it off. Women, I think in general, have much more difficulty in doing that. We can think about many things at once and therefore have a harder time shutting things off. So I think, for your guy, it's easier for him to push it down or to kind of run away from it. I agree that a man will be in contact when he wants to be or will pursue what he wants to do, but I also think they often are much more delayed in getting to what they feel. Because they're pushing things down or avoiding the feelings, they may not realize that they screwed up badly until a while later. I know that's not the case for all men, but I've seen it a few times in my relationships as well as in those of my male family and friends.

I 100% think that the lack of closure is often intentional. Either it's because he wants to keep the door open a crack or he doesn't want the confrontation of fully ending it. The danger I think is that because he might view it as not fully "over", he may come back after some time. If he actually works on his issues and is ready to leave his marriage, that could be ok. As far as how he feels about you dating someone else, I tend to doubt that he's so casual about it. It's not like you guys have been broken up for a year or something. It's only been a few weeks since you guys stopped talking, right?

I think it's awesome that you have a good sense of your boundaries. I know a lot of people struggle with this, both in the relationship and with an ex. I also find it so interesting that you think it's easier to see him, so that you know how he's doing. That would probably kill me. I admire your strength as well!!

Thanks for your kind words. I haven't always been so strong. I still kick myself for not having good boundaries with him over the past few years, because I should have stood up for myself a long time ago. I was so crazy about him and thought he was so wonderful. And I wanted him to pick me. So I willingly took less and less of him rather than having none at all. It's hard to stomach that.

I agree in general about his new relationship. I know for me all of those things about not posting pictures would be a huge red flag. And I totally agree that the fact that she tried to post a picture anyway probably says that she is feeling weird about it too. They live in the same city and actually work in the same place some of the time, based on what I can tell. I think this all might blow up in his face and I'm ashamed to admit I kind of want that. I do think logically it's highly unlikely that he suddenly changed from a man that was unavailable to one that was ready to commit, especially as he was still keeping in touch with me for several months while he was starting to date this woman. But, the less logical part of me worries that it was all me that wasn't enough and now that he's found this new person (who I've nicknamed big boobs) he's so happy and content. She's really pretty and has a beautiful figure. I feel like nothing compared to her, as shameful as that is to admit. I agree about what you said about social media being a poor reflector of someone's real life or feelings, but it is really hard to see that when she's posting picture after picture of herself in skimpy outfits.

I've had a good time with my best friend. She knows me better than anyone in the world and always supports me. She's listened to me talk about this guy for 4 years now and has never said I told you so or anything like that. So it's been very healing to be around that.

I sometimes wonder if I haven't fully accepted everything. Like I'm still making sense of it all. As more time goes by and we don't talk, I guess it does start to sink in more. But today I cried for a while because I just felt really sad. So it's not as fast as I would like.

Hope you had a nice weekend too. You sound like you're doing really well. Thanks for posting your thoughts and how you're coping. It helps me a lot (and I'm sure others too).

February 26, 2019

I think your generalization is accurate in tonssssss of situations! There is a video on youtube about mens brains versus womens brains and it's hilarious. It is exactly as you described it. Have you seen it? If not, I'll post the link here - you'd love it. He's told me several times that he tends to shut down when he gets overwhelmed so he is probably doing that also. I feel like we were in a decent place when we stopped talking though - we had both backed off of anything other than friendship. The only reason I haven't contacted him is because I'm not able to be friends with him. I realized that I was not going to be able to see where the other relationship could go if I remained friends with him. I don't think my ex is able to shut it off that easily either but maybe it's just easier for him to compartmentalize and push it off to deal with later than it is for me. Even if he were to come back a year from now fully divorced and ready to date I wouldn't be able to date him. We just aren't compatible long term, I already know that. I just wish I hadn't crossed the friendship line because we were good friends prior to the other stuff happening. The reason I can't go back to being friends is because he doesn't respect my boundaries and I ended up not being strong enough to keep them up. He pursued me pretty steadily and I eventually gave in. So I just can't chance that I will be weak and vulnerable to him again. I want to be in a relationship and eventually get married again. I can't do any of that if I stay caught up with him.

That's right, we haven't talked for 3 weeks tomorrow other than passing by in the office. We had decided to just be friends 2 weeks prior to that and had only been talking as more than friends since around the beginning of October. So it didn't last that long. We had a short lived fling almost 2 years ago and then didn't talk as anything other than friends for more than a year after that. I guess I think it's easier to see him because it lets it fade away a little at a time instead of going no contact cold turkey. I will say that if he weren't giving me this space and were constantly trying to contact me then having to see him would not be easier. He just isn't that person to contact me if I'm not responding to his texts. He hasn't tried to contact me at all (I explained why I wasn't contacting him but I'm not sure why he isn't contacting me but I'll take it lol). He will eventually contact me again but I don't think it will be to get back together in that sense. I think both of us kind of feel like that ship has sailed.

I totally understand what you mean about accepting less than you deserve. The most important thing is that once you realized he was with someone else you immediately confronted him and went no contact. You didn't try and get him to choose you over someone else. You didn't vacillate between talking to him and going no contact like a lot of people. So I know you have a hard time accepting that it took you so long to come to that conclusion but it only took you a long time due to the false hope he gave you. I think most people innately want to believe the best in others.

I think it will 100% blow up in his face. He most definitely did not become an available man overnight. It may not be today. It may not be tomorrow. But one day it will happen. She was posting pictures of trips they were taking together and he still hadn't told you. Who knows how long he would have continued talking to you had you not found out. That does not show commitment or settling down AT ALL. I'm with you - I would want it to fail also. We're human!! I'm laughing that you call her big boobs. That's so awesome and hilarious! You know she has to be insecure about parts of their relationship given how secretive he is. She's hiding it behind her big boobs but the insecurity is there.

I had a good cry on Friday for no reason other than just because I miss him and our friendship. I was grieving because I know I can never have him as a friend again - I can't trust myself to keep him in the friend zone. I think crying helps so much because, otherwise, our emotions stay bottled up. They are going to come out one way or another so I would rather it be in the form of crying than other less healthy ways lol!

I think it's totally normal to have not fully accepted it yet. You were together for 4 years right?? That's a long ass time to be over it in a few months. It's definitely not a sprint. You aren't sitting at home in your pajamas not going to work everyday. You're joining new groups, working, going to visit friends, living your life. It's normal to have days where you cry. It's normal that you haven't accepted the finality of it yet. One of the reasons you probably haven't accepted it yet is because, in your mind, you may reply if he contacts you with an apology. You aren't saying "I'm never going to reply to him no matter what he says". So I think it's normal to not accept it for a while because your mind hasn't decided to never speak to him again. If that makes sense...

I'm glad you had a good weekend - it's so helpful to have people that are close to us not judge things we are going through. SO HELPFUL.

He was in the office all day yesterday (everyone in his group has duty days where they are in the office all day). I had to go in and meet with my supervisor and couldn't get around him being there. I went the long way in and the long way out and totally avoided seeing him. First time I've ever gone that far out of my way to avoid him and it felt really good. It just felt good to know I could do it and not be sad afterward.

February 27, 2019

@TooMuch2Ask, I am so impressed with your boundaries!! I think it's awesome how you're handling things. With my previous ex, we worked together and I would both want to see him and dread it at the same time. But I never knew how he was going to be with me. Sometimes he would be super friendly and sometimes he would ignore me. So it was probably more that idea of intermittent reinforcement. I think that's what it's called.

Do you really feel like you guys can't be friends again? I guess if he disrespected you, that's pretty crappy and hard to get over. Being disappointed in someone is the worst. It's worse than being angry really. I can see how if he was your friend first that would be even harder to get past. I have a really hard time letting go of people in my life. I'm one of those people that gets mad at someone (for a very legitimate reason even) and tells them and then feels bad an hour later. So it's hard for me to imagine saying I couldn't be friends with someone again. But I get it. It's a boundary really. If someone can't treat you how you deserve to be treated, then you shouldn't let them have such an important place in your life.

I 100% think he's working things out in his own time. I told this story in another thread (I think), but it illustrates my point about this. My dad was dating this woman for a while. My mom died when I was young and my dad never remarried. This was the first woman that he was really crazy about. She left him for another guy after around 9 months or so and he was devastated. We had many talks about it. After a few months, he decided to get back online and met a really nice lady. They started dating and that was going well when of course woman #1 comes back, having been dumped by the man she left my dad for. My dad was totally thrown by this and couldn't deal with the drama. So he withdrew and didn't call woman #2 (compartmentalizing). After a few months (when he got back together with woman #1, much to the annoyance of me and my brother) he realized he hadn't called her, but he knew she would be upset with him. So he didn't call. A year or so goes by and eventually he and woman #1 break up again. He randomly sends a group email that includes woman #2, she responds and they start hanging out again. They dated on and off for years but eventually broke up about two years ago. Just about 6 months ago, my dad was like "I really messed that whole thing up". And that was like 8 years after the original drama went down!!!! Talk about taking forever to realize what was going on! So yeah, I think that explains why a lot of these guys show up years later. Hopefully your guy will realize that he screwed up and I hope will apologize. Would you be open to an apology? Or has that ship sailed?

I also think you avoiding him will bother him. Not sure if that affects you at all, but I would guess it would be a blow to his ego. But it might be best for you and I think it's awesome that you're focusing only on what you need to do for you. So many people on this board have a hard time worrying their exes are going to be angry with them and can't take a stand for themselves. I just am so impressed with how you're dealing with this only 3 weeks after you guys stopped talking. I'm 4 months in and still struggling.

Thank you so much for your kind words. It's really hard to not compare myself to her. Honestly (and a little b****ily) she seems really insecure and vain. That surprises me, because he doesn't usually like people that brag about themselves. But she's hot and I've already mentioned the big boobs. I have only been on her page twice because I can't do it again. I'd go crazy trying to decipher everything. It's so funny. When I first saw everything and was trying to interpret his responses, I thought maybe he had some kind of crazy stalker. She had so many pictures in places where he was but he was never in them, not even the back of his head. I have also noted that there haven't been any pictures of them in the city that they both live. It seems like he takes her with him when he goes on out of town trips. I know it's shady as hell but it still makes me feel sad. Just in that he picked her. I think about our memories and hate that he's making new ones with someone else. I hope someday this whole thing won't make me so sad. And that my self esteem won't be so low.

I really want him to feel bad. And I don't know why. It's not like it would change anything. Maybe because it would validate something for me? His silence just makes it seem like he doesn't care and is going on without a care in the world. While I cry all the time. Maybe it's an ego thing? I don't know. All I know is that I wish I could know that he even for a second felt bad about breaking my heart.

We met on a medical mission trip that we typically go on every spring. The trip is coming up at the end of April and I'm not sure if he's going. He typically goes and they actually usually factor his schedule into account when they plan the dates because his work there is really needed. So I would think it would be strange if he didn't go and it makes me wonder if it's because of me. My therapist said I should look at it like he's afraid to face me after what happened. Like seeing me would be a mirror to show him how crummy he acted. But I still worry that he's avoiding me because he thinks I'm nuts or something. And I don't even know if he's going. I've been trying to just focus on the million other things that I have to do before then. And on filling up my life with other things that make me happy.

How are things going with the other guy? I can't even think about dating other men right now. Or trying to meet someone. I keep thinking I'm open to the right person, but I'm probably not.

Keep posting. I find your posts inspiring

February 27, 2019

I think you should give yourself more credit @nolanola. Like someone said earlier since you cut this guy off you have stood firm with NC despite how much you've struggled. I'm six months (where my ex broke NC doesn't count, obvi) and I still struggle with my breakup every day. Maybe not every moment, but I still think about it often enough to be frustrated with how I feel. And why wouldn't I be? Why wouldn't we be? You spent enough time trying to get this guy to commit to something, and no matter how great things have seemed when he we was around, he didn't give you what you wanted/deserved from him. And that is not easy to just walk away from, especially considering the time we all invested in these people.

4 months of NC for your own healing is much more valuable than say, 4 months of NC for the purpose of weaponizing NC in the hopes of it bringing your ex back around. I think his silence is just that, silence. As someone who has seen all of my exes life get worse off at some point after a breakup, I can say that desiring that kind of thing is natural. I've surely felt it even in recent days. But I don't act on it, and I don't wish anything on my ex, good or bad. Instead I've looked inward and just consider time and self growth to get where I need to be to find inner peace. Obviously the larger conversation we've had through your thread is by maintaining NC as the best means to heal. While sometimes it is more complicated than that, it surely does take the most strength to stick to it. Don't ask me how I feel like sticking to it so easily. I think I'm just tired of bullsh*t.

As for compartmentalizing, I don't think it's something I'd necessarily attribute to all men, as I've seen both men and women compartmentalize things that has left me seriously mindf*cked on how some people can seriously reflect on their own actions without conveying an ounce of guilt (I won't bring up my ex-wife I promise). That said, I do think men and women compartmentalize things differently, but I think it happens equitably between the two.

Anyhow, we've obviously been following each others journey's and how many people can you look at on these boards alone who don't constantly ask "when can I contact my ex?", or worse, constantly contact their ex, something you have refrained from entirely if I recall correctly. Be proud of shutting him out from your last conversation with him, your silence speaks MUCH louder than his. I think you've deserve to take pride in that, at the very least. I haven't found it in my heart to put myself out there to date either, and I don't foresee it happening anytime soon. Maybe next year? I wouldn't pass anything up that started happening organically, but for now, just riding the waves. So don't worry if you're feeling the same.

February 27, 2019

@Endnote, so good to "see" you. I've been wondering how things are with you after the recent contact from your ex. How are you coping? Did anything come of it? Don't feel like you have to share, but I've been wondering after I saw your update on your thread.

Thanks for your kind words. Yes, I have been totally NC since November 1, I think. Not sure if that's the right date. I have no real desire to get in touch with him but can't say I don't wish for him to say something of value to me. Or sometimes to say anything, even just the dreaded "hey". On the same hand, I'm not sure what he could say that would make everything ok. So I don't know why I want that or what exactly I want. Actually, that's not true. I want to be happy again. I want to feel optimistic about that part of my life. I don't think I'm ready to date again, but I also wish I could find someone that would distract me from thinking about him and her. It frustrates me that he seems to just so easily transition to something else.

I was thinking just this morning about something you said in one of your other posts about the aftermath of things with your ex wife. I think it was around the time she had left and was dating the other guy - I think you said it was about 6 months that were really hard at the time but now you look back at them as important to you and your healing from that relationship. That is giving me hope that I'm still headed in the right direction. I want NC to help me to not think about him and to not cry. I want it to help me rebuild my self esteem and to help me to feel attractive again. I guess it just takes time, even though it's so frustrating to wait. I'm working with my therapist but due to some out of town trips I can't see her until mid-March. So I've just been journaling and trying to focus on the rest of my life.

Thanks also for your thoughts on men versus women. I'm sure you can relate to this thought, but I wish I understood men more. Dealing with emotions seems so much easier for you guys, but I guess maybe it's just a matter of how they portray themselves. Maybe men are hurting too but just don't show it as much. Obviously, from reading this board, men are just as affected by breakups as women are.

February 27, 2019

Don't be that impressed - I clearly did not have good boundaries to have ended up in the situation with him in the first place. I have such a terrible time with boundaries that I have to make myself walk completely around the building to avoid seeing him. I wish I had better boundaries and could trust myself around him but I just don't anymore. I absolutely feel like we can't be friends again. Not in the true sense of the word. We can be work acquaintances but we can't be friends that talk outside of work and share personal information. I'm attracted to him and him to me. It just won't work unless I just want to stay trapped in that circle with him.

So he didn't disrespect me and he doesn't really have anything to apologize for. I think the only thing I really have a right to be mad about is that he knew I was at a place in my life where I wanted to be in a relationship and find love yet he continued to pursue me knowing he could not give me that. He doesn't mistreat me and would be there in 2 seconds if I called and needed him. The problem with him is that he is emotionally unavailable. He has a lot of baggage from his marriage and admittedly says that he's damaged. He never future faked or made me think he was someone that he wasn't. I guess I just feel that he shouldn't have made moves on me knowing where he was at but I guess we're all human.

There are things that he has done that I don't like. There were many times that he wasn't consistent. He would sometimes go days without initiating contact. Yes, he would have responded if I had initiated contact but given how overwhelmed he was I just didn't want to worry or bother him. I would tell him that I would really like it if he would just say he was busy and give me a heads up so I didn't feel like he was just not in contact. He would say he understood and then do it again. We were not in a relationship but yet he would sometimes send mixed signals - like he would tell me what he had going on, what he was doing, where he was going, he loved me all of that. Then some days it would be the total opposite. The best way to describe it is that everything was inconsistent and I felt like I was constantly on a roller coaster ride. It's so confusing for me to type this out because I say all of this knowing that neither of us wanted to be in a "relationship" out in the open. So I guess, to some extent, we were engaging in an affair even though I'm divorced. Even so, I just didn't like his lack of communication at times - he would shut down when super busy or overwhelmed and it made me feel tossed aside. I am the type of person that someone is either in my life or they're not - there's not a lot of in between.

In the end I don't think he could handle my expectations (consistent contact) which is why he wanted to just be friends (mid January is when he told me this) with none of the physical aspects, making out, touching etc. I get it. Totally. The thing for me is that I am not able to do that with him right now. I can't be around him and act like I'm not attracted to him or have feelings for him. It's not who I am. I've spent a lot of time in the last few years working on myself in therapy during my separation and then post divorce to live an authentic life for me. I'm not going to throw all of that hard work away for someone that only wants to keep me in his life when it's convenient for him. I don't think it is easy for him to just be friends but I think it works for him - he gets to still have me around but doesn't have to put in any of the work. I think he would be totally fine being friends and would have responded if I had initiated contact in the last 3 weeks. At some point he would break that boundary again and we'd be back and square one. So the only answer for me is to just stay away as much as I can. It's f'ing hard. We have really fantastic chemistry, as friends and as more. It's hard to walk away from that. I think I would feel stronger if I could be friends with him outside of the office and it not effect me. That would make me feel like I've accomplished something. Right now, I feel weak that I have to do all of this avoiding just to move on.

Speaking of avoiding... we had to communicate today for work. It was hard. He was very pleasant and engaging as per usual. It was really hard for me to smile and act like nothing was wrong. I miss him. I miss our comradery. A lot. I can tell him anything and trust that he would never say anything. That's hard to come by in a work environment. It just sucks. I have no one to vent to about work, no one to complain with anymore. I know that's not really a big deal but it just sucks sometimes. Since he doesn't know when I'm in the office and when I'm not he doesn't really know I'm avoiding him so I'm not sure if he's been bothered by it. The truth is that I'm not doing this so he will come back or so he will contact me or be bothered. I'm doing it because he's made it clear he doesn't want to be involved with me anymore and I know I can't just be friends right now. I still feel too much for him. I'm avoiding him so I can get over him. I'm not worried he will be mad at me because he isn't - he hasn't tried to contact me in 3 weeks outside of work so it's not like I'm ignoring him. There's nothing for him to really be mad at. It makes me feel better that you're impressed because I feel like a tremendous loser most days. I feel like I should be way over this considering we were not in a relationship and this didn't last for years. I'm learning to allow myself this time and I'm trying to be nice to myself about how long this is taking. Fake it til you make it right?

In terms of the woman he is seeing now.... he didn't pick her. He picked him. I know it's really hard to not think it's a competition between the two of you though. Ultimately, it's about him. Maybe he's with her because it's easier for him because she lives right there. Maybe it's because she has big boobs and is hot. So let's say it's because of those reasons.... all that means is that he's shallow. So he's not really picking "her" he's picking himself and what he wants/needs. And to be honest, he didn't really pick her over you. You confronted him about her. He didn't call you and say "I've met this really great woman and I think she could be the one so i'm gonna see where that could go". He didn't do anything at all. He took trips with her and didn't bother to tell her he was still talking to you. I don't think he chose her at all. What if she had found out about you and confronted him? I think he would have done the same thing. He would have continued talking to you and let her walk away. I don't know him but I don't think he would have "fought" to keep her in his life. If he felt like that about her he wouldn't have still been talking to you in the first place. Just some things to think about... reframing is wonderful. Instead of thinking about it in terms of him choosing her over you try reframing it about who was the easiest choice. You confronted him and if she had maybe the choice would have been different. He chose himself.

His silence likely comes from knowing that he was wrong and he doesn't know what to say or do now to get past it. It speaks volumes about him being conflict avoidant - another reason he wasn't honest with you about her in the first place. I'm sureeeeee he feels bad but just doesn't know what to do to fix it or change anything.

I really like what endnote said about how much progress you've made. I can't get over how you just literally walked away. I've read these boards for a couple of months and was not moved to post until I read your thread. Seriously. It's amazing and makes me have hope and know that I can do this if I just stay the course. Things with the guy are going really well. I can see myself with him long term. I just have to keep moving on!!!

I hope he doesn't go on the mission trip. I think you will have a better and more rewarding trip if he isn't there. Do you have a plan of how you will handle the situation if he does go??

February 28, 2019

Oh my goodness, I have so much I want to say about your post!! I read it a few times and will probably take a screen shot of some parts. I've been doing that with posts that really resonate with me or that give me different ways of thinking about things.

First, I cannot believe you would ever think of yourself as a loser or weak!! When I read what you said about knowing that you can't be friends with him because you know you need to get over him first and knowing that he can't give you what you want, I was really impressed. It takes a strong character to know what you want and to not settle for less than that. And it's not like you're asking for anything crazy. You want a man that can commit to you and to be consistent in his contact. I think that is very reasonable. But to be able to recognize that he is not capable of that and to walk away without some dramatic scene is huge. And I know you're upset with yourself for getting into the situation in the first place, but I think there is something kind of nice about being open to love, even if it blows up in your face. You liked him, you were attracted to him, and clearly he felt the same way. You didn't know he was going to be unavailable or how hot and cold he would be.

With my previous ex, we had so much drama. He was an addict and I now know I was codependent and it was a mess. I did things and said things that I cringe to think about now. I was very deliberate with this guy that I was not going to be "crazy", so I tried to play everything really cool. Which lead to me biting my tongue a lot when I really wanted to let something out. I feel good that I didn't act "crazy", but I regret that I didn't stand up for my boundaries more. I respect how you've handled this situation and do not for one minute think you should call yourself a loser.

You have to do what is best for you. If that means walking around the building to avoid seeing him, that's what you've got to do. As long as you're not doing anything cruel or mean, you don't owe anyone an explanation of why you do anything. I also seriously respect what you said about not avoiding him as part of a game or scheme.

I absolutely love what you said about reframing the situation. I took a screen shot of that paragraph to help me when I feel low. It makes me feel so much better and I think you are very, very right. I often wonder what his end game was. Perhaps he had not even thought about it. I feel good that I removed myself from that situation. I don't want to be someone's backup plan or side option or whatever. He can keep doing whatever with big boobs, but he won't have me sitting in his corner thinking he's the greatest anymore.

The way you described the back and forth, hot and cold situation with your ex was very similar to my guy. He would sometimes go quiet for a while and I didn't want to push too hard. He shares custody of his children and I know his time with them is super important to him. He also has a very demanding job and I wanted to be understanding. But all that put me at the bottom of his list of priorities. I wouldn't expect him to put me over his kids, but I really wanted to know that I was in his mind. As you said, even just a text or some acknowledgement would have been good. When I tried to bring up how I felt about this, he was pretty clear that he just didn't think he could be that for me. So I can't say he didn't tell me. I wasn't strong enough at that time to walk away and I don't think he wanted me to go. I do feel good sometimes when I think that the up and down of the situation is over. Although I do sometimes wonder if he will ever contact me again, I don't sit and wait to see if he will text me anymore. I used to be on pins and needles waiting to hear from him and being depressed when I didn't. Elated when I did. It's nice to be out of that up and down, even if it is awful lonely to hear a text come in and see it's from my brother instead.

I am working on things as best as I can. I've made progress I think, I can definitely see that. I think by the time you get to 4 months, you will be in pretty good shape. Time definitely helps, but I do find myself slipping a little bit sometimes.

My therapist and I are planning to discuss a strategy for if he goes on our trip. One of my other friends from the trip (who knows the whole story with him) is doing some digging to see if she can find out if he's going or not. Right now, I'm not 100% sure either way, so I should probably prepare either way so I won't be surprised. There's a part of me that almost wants him to be there, as hard as that would be, because I feel like there might be a chance for us to at least clear the air. But, as you very astutely noted, he is conflict avoidant so the likelihood of him doing that is pretty slim.

February 28, 2019

@Endnote, so good to "see" you. I've been wondering how things are with you after the recent contact from your ex. How are you coping? Did anything come of it? Don't feel like you have to share, but I've been wondering after I saw your update on your thread.

Thanks also for your thoughts on men versus women. I'm sure you can relate to this thought, but I wish I understood men more. Dealing with emotions seems so much easier for you guys, but I guess maybe it's just a matter of how they portray themselves. Maybe men are hurting too but just don't show it as much. Obviously, from reading this board, men are just as affected by breakups as women are.

I think I struggled the most when I saw my ex's picture after not seeing anything for nearly 6 months. It's still so weird that I heard from her the very next day. Considering I dealt with the emotion of that the night before, her contacting me didn't affect me too badly. So far she's only given me a little less than half the money she owes me. I don't intend to bring up any aspect of the break up to her if we have to meet up, I'm just going to make it business like and get her her stuff back as long as she pays me back. Like I said before, I'm still struggling to move on, but that's part of moving on, even if it means I need another 6 months.

As for men vs women, I know that I've had to more often than not suppress my pain in relationships than the women in my life have had to (maybe it's widespread culturally, biologically, socially, who knows). But trust me when I say the pain is quite exhausting and unwanted. When you describe how your ex really couldn't give you a real commitment I imagine the pain of his divorce was both recent and powerful enough to leave him acting the way he did. That doesn't justify how he treated you but let me tell you that the pain of divorce is up there with the pain associated with the death of a loved one, and no matter how far along your ex was with his healing that sh*t does not go away easily. It came up in my last relationship at times, despite the fact that my ex-wife is long gone, not that I talked about it, but it manifested itself in my actions.

I'm not saying to stay away from a guy that's been divorced, just know that if he's not willing to truly commit within a few months of dating it's probably not gonna change, especially if he's getting his intimacy needs met. You gotta take that sh*t from him, cause if he's not getting laid trust me he will change haha! Maybe not in all cases, but I know a lot of guys that change the minute the availability of sex goes out the window (you know, cause I'm one of them).

I really hope that when a time comes that you start feeling really good about your healing that you'll keep checking in on this thread even if life is good. Clearly it has exploded and remains ever popular, and your perspective and that of many of the others that have said something is very valuable. Stay strong to all on here.

February 28, 2019

@endnote, thank you for all those thoughts. It is very interesting to hear a mature male perspective. I think I gave him a lot of leeway in the early parts of our relationship because I knew he was not so long out of a divorce and I knew he was likely still struggling with it. I wish I had had better boundaries, but I feel good that I never pushed him or was angry with him about it. I do have enough compassion for him to know that it must have been very hard, especially with his children. I wish he had comported himself better, especially in the end, but I am sure he did not set out to hurt my feelings.

I totally LOL'd at what you said about intimacy and commitment. Perhaps our grandmothers were onto something with that whole "why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free thing". It's feels strange to think about that as a 42 year old woman that I would need to be wary of jumping into the physical intimacy of a relationship, but it is definitely something I am thinking about moving forward. Although I really cannot imagine dating anyone else right now.

I'm so glad to hear that the contact from your ex did not set you back so far. There is something in the universe, I'm telling you, about the energy that we put out and what we receive. I have read that book "The Secret" and always thought it was kind of bunk, but it does seem to happen that people come back around at weird times. Do you think that you would ever forgive your ex if she asked? Not asking about getting back together, because I know that's a huge stretch, but just to forgive her for how she treated you? Did you get around to forgiving your ex-wife eventually? At least in your heart if not in person? I was wondering if your ex paying you back was a step towards her trying to ask for your forgiveness. Or to show you something positive about herself. I think she knows she did not treat you well at the end.

Thanks for everything that you said. I have gotten a lot out of this thread, both in writing and in reading what others have said. It is very cathartic in some ways to pour my heart out to strangers and I have said some things that I haven't even told my best friend.

February 28, 2019

@nola

I'm glad my post was helpful!! Sometimes I feel like a broken record by saying the same things over and over lol!

Knowing that I can't be friends with him and actually following through are two different things. I'm not sure I'll be able to actually follow through with it. When I said I think working with him is easier than not was true to some extent. Parts of it are easier for me and other parts are way harder - I'm realizing that lol. Thank you for not thinking I'm a loser - that definitely makes me feel better. What you said about it being nice that I was open to love... I've felt that a few times in this situation. I went in with my eyes wide open and was vulnerable with him. He was also very vulnerable with me, more so than I think he usually is. It was a really great feeling and I was very authentic with him and he with me. The hard part is knowing that we both do love each other and that was/is very real. Because of that I'm not sure I could ever truly ignore him without having a conversation about where I'm at with things. I've gone back and forth about whether I would respond and I just feel like I would if for no other reason that just to tell him how I feel, for me.

When I think back on things and really evaluate our situation we had kind of an argument the day before it ended where I was very emotional and he was trying to comfort me. I rejected his attempts to hug and comfort me because I was angry with him. To explain further, I had not heard from him all week for no reason other than he was overwhelmed and busy. The morning of the argument one of my close friends brother committed suicide. I was at the office and my best friend at work asked me how I was and I just broke down in tears. She took me to a room on another hall so no one else would see me crying. I was just so upset because he has 3 young children and it was just devastating to me for my friend and her family. He happened to walk by and saw us in there through the tiny window in the door (just my luck). So he came in and was really concerned about what was going on with me (until then I didn't even know he was in the office because we hadn't talked). I just didn't want to talk to him because I felt disconnected as I hadn't heard from him all week. First of all, I didn't want him to see me crying like that and, further, I just didn't want his comfort. It made me angry that he tried to come in on his white horse and make me feel better when he hadn't bothered to check on me all week (yes I know I could have texted him and he would have responded but I just really like him to initiate the texts and he knows this). I know this likely sounds juvenile but that's where my head was at. So when he tried to hug me and comfort me I asked him not to and it visibly bothered him, A LOT. Even though I eventually calmed down I think the damage was done for him. The next day is when he was intent that he couldn't handle what we were doing and wanted to just be friends - I did not question his reasons because I was at the point that I knew I couldn't handle the up down anymore. I can only imagine how rejected he felt. I literally told him not to touch me and pulled away from him. I've had better moments but I think the entire situation was taking a toll on me - the up and down, push and pull. I do think I would want an opportunity to explain all of that to him at some point. Regardless of him being emotionally unavailable he really would be there for me if I ever needed him, for anything. People like that don't come around all the time. I know it sounds so crazy because I'm here saying that he is emotionally unavailable but would be there for me no matter what. It's hard to explain but we are just connected that way and I know it, I feel it. As I type this out it feels kind of silly but oh well lol.

I'm not in a huge rush to have the closure because I would really like to talk with him when I'm not feeling emotional. I think if I had to have the conversation with him right now I would cry lol. It's not like he is stringing me along or manipulating me, etc. so I having the conversation with him right now is not imminent for me. I realized yesterday that I just love him. I do. Regardless of his faults and issues. It doesn't mean he's right for me or that I'm hoping we ride off into the sunset because I don't. But I've realized in the last few years that you can love someone and still not be with them. So we'll see what happens.

When you say your previous ex do you mean the most recent one or the one before him? I know you have another one you talk about sometimes so I was just making sure.

I think sometimes we give someone too much time and too much leeway and they end up taking advantage of us. There is a blog that I like to read sometimes - it's called Baggage Reclaim. It's good stuff. She talks about not being the fallback girl and basically not taking **** from a man lol. It's really good stuff and I read it when I'm feeling weak. Have you seen it? I just think that sometimes we give someone too much room to walk over us but it's tough because it's in our dna to be nurturing and loving.

Is there a way for you to email the person heading the trip up to ask if he's going? Did anyone there know you two were involved? When do you meet with your therapist to come up with a plan of action?

March 1, 2019

@TooMuch2Ask, I totally understand what you're saying. Some days I feel really good about things and strong in what I have done and the choices I made, only to be crying about it that same night. The head and the heart do not always agree. In fact, more often than not they don't.

I think the push and pull makes a woman much crazier than a man. I'm generalizing again, but I feel like women often want to know "the status" of things and need some reassurance that their feelings are reciprocated. I'm sure men want to know that women feel the same towards them, but I think they are more comfortable in saying "I talked to her yesterday, everything was good" whereas women are reading into small details and looking for reassurance. Men seem to go with the flow a lot easier when it comes to the status of things. I know for myself, I appreciate consistent and regular contact. It doesn't need to be a phone call, as I know we're all so busy, but something to know that I've crossed a man's mind is nice. My recent ex was really good about this in the beginning and I would also reach out to him with a funny joke or picture or something to say hi. We had "the talk" about 5 months into dating and after that I became much more insecure about hearing from him or in reaching out to him. He started pulling away a tiny bit at first and then more and more and more. I think the uncertainty about those types of situations comes from a very real place in our guts. We know something is off about the relationship and feel anxious about it. Therefore we need more reassurance. Or we may try to brush it off or downplay it, only to have it come up in other ways (as you mentioned with when he tried to comfort you after your friend's brother passed away). I completely get it. I know for myself, I need some type of emotional connection with someone in order to connect with them. I can't just not talk and then jump into being close with them. It's like preheating the oven. So I get your reaction.

I know you want to talk to him about it and I hope you get the chance to do so, if only so you won't worry about what he thinks about it or if he's hurt about how you acted. I don't think you acted so crazy and I suspect after some time passes it may be easier to talk about it with him. Do you think you would feel comfortable emailing him? Or writing him a letter? Just to explain why you acted the way that you did? Or do you think that would be opening a can of worms you don't want to open?

Whenever I think I've been crazy with an ex, I always think of that singer from TLC that burned her ex-boyfriend's house down. Now THAT'S crazy.

I have 3 significant exes. The first is a man I dated in high school, college, and after. He was my first love and a really good person. We split up on good-ish terms and he is now married with a few children. We haven't spoken in about 10 years. The second (the one I call my previous ex) I dated off and on for 3 years and was caught in his wake for 3 years after that. He was an addict and our relationship was toxic and abusive (mostly emotional, but physically a few times). We have not spoken since 2010, although he has tried to text me a few times, the last time in 2015. I have never responded to his texts and still don't feel ready to ever see or speak to him again. And that leaves my most recent ex, who I dated off and on for the past 4 years. I'd say we were off and on for about 2 years and in a weird place between friends and dating for the next 2.

I'm almost a little bit jealous that you have the opportunity to see your ex. I don't think it would be good for me to see mine, but some days (like rainy dreary ones like today), I feel so sad that I haven't seen him. I feel like he has forgotten about me and that is a hard thought. I know realistically he probably hasn't totally forgotten about me, but it feels like he has.

I asked my friend to ask around about the trip for me because the situation is kind of awkward. The man that leads our trip is someone I respect highly. He's like a father to me. He also thinks very highly of my ex. I did not think he knew about the two of us, but one year we somehow started talking about my ex (as a group, my ex was not there at the time) and he looked straight and me and said "you know, he is divorced now". This man is very religious and I think he was kind of giving me his blessing. It was awkward because I didn't know he knew that we had dated. This past year, I had an issue with a different man on the trip being very inappropriate with me (text messages and some touching that was very inappropriate). I had to talk to this man about it, as he is the leader of our group and it was awkward for me to have to look him in the eye and tell him all the details. But he was extremely supportive and told my ex about it. My ex was very upset that this happened and this was one of the ways that he was supporting me when I found out about big boobs. I was even more hurt that he was being so supportive and kind about that but didn't tell me that he was taking trips with this woman (while he texting me to check that I was ok). That is a very long winded way of saying that I suspect that our group leader knows that my ex and I dated but that it is extremely awkward for me to ask him about it. I know my ex also thinks very highly of our group leader and I wouldn't want to make things awkward for him. So it's easier if I go through back channels (my friend) and find out that way if I can. I'd at least like to be prepared. Our group usually meets in the airport in Frankfurt before going on as a group to our final location and I don't want to be in the airport wondering if he's going to come around the corner.

I have read some of the books by the woman that does Baggage Reclaim!! I found her in the very early days, when I was really spinning. I read her books about no contact and the fallback girl. That was a hard read, because I don't want to be that girl and it stings to think that I might have been that. I think that sucks the worst. I wanted so much for him to respect me and I feel like he doesn't. But maybe I'm just feeling sorry for myself this rainy evening.

March 1, 2019

So in terms of the fallback girl... you are totally NOT the fallback girl. The fallback girl is the girl that finds out the person she is seeing is seeing someone else so she tries to get back to being his number 1. She doesn't immediately confront him and then walk away. This is what you did. You found out he was seeing someone else. You confronted him. You walked away basically shouting "I'M NOT GONNA BE YOUR FALLBACK GIRL" and you chucked the deuces up as you walked away lol!

I know you feel like you invested too much time, energy and effort into him and the relationship. Instead of looking at it that way look at it like this... you will never feel like you didn't give enough. You will never feel like you should have waited just a little been longer, been a little more understanding of his situation. You won't have any regrets over leaving too soon. So if the regret you have is waiting too long before leaving then all of us should be so lucky to have someone as loyal as you are in our lives. I know you want to make better decisions for yourself next time. I get it. But at least you won't have any regrets about not giving enough. I would rather have regrets about staying too long over not staying long enough but that's just me.

YESSSSS the push/pull is much more difficult for us. I agree. It's just different for us. TLC - hilarious. I'm no where near that crazy, thank goodness!!!

I could definitely send an email or talk face to face. It's only a matter of time before we talk. When I said it was easier to see him while I was going through this I must have had a brain lapse lol. It's not easier. It's basically like starting no contact over again ever week ugh. It's hard. I could reach out to him but I just want to wait for him to do it first. It's not because I'm stubborn or prideful, although I am those things sometimes too. It's because he started this so I think it's important for him to be the one to reach out.

When is your friend planning on asking about him going on the trip? It's been raining here 50-11 days and I'm done. DONE!!! I need sunshine asap.

So I had a ton more typed and lost it. I can't stand that. I'll try to remember what else I said and post again.

March 2, 2019

Thanks for that @TooMuch2Ask. I think that's a good way of thinking of it (that I gave it a really good chance). I am very hard on myself and don't talk to myself very nicely. This is something I'd like to change, although it is very engrained. It feels comfortable to say things to myself that I would never say to a friend. It actually feels easier to be mean to myself than to be kind. To think things like "you were so naive" or "he never cared about you". These things are not helpful but somehow they feel easy. I told my therapist that feeling sorry for myself feels like putting on a pair of sweatpants. It's easy.

My friend that is doing the digging is super super busy so I haven't talked to her in a couple of weeks. I'm sure she will tell me before we leave. The trip isn't until the end of April, so we've got a little bit of time. I think about it from time to time, but right now I don't feel particularly anxious about it. That could change for sure. Especially if I find out he's going. If he doesn't go, I think it will most likely be because of me. I don't know why else he would not go. But I guess I shouldn't get all worked up about it yet, at least not until I know more.

I kept thinking that my ex and I would talk eventually too, but as the months go by I start to wonder if we won't. For you guys, it's obviously a bit more difficult to ignore, as you guys work together and see each other fairly often. It seems odd to me to just leave things hanging, but perhaps my ex is so avoidant that he is perfectly content to just leave it as is. Or, as you said before, he knows that he didn't handle the situation well and doesn't know how to fix it. So he just lets it sit there (kind of like how my Dad handled the situation with his lady friend). I hope someday I will get some kind of answer or apology from him. I suspect that this will only happen when I don't care anymore, as that's how it always seems to happen.

I had a long day at work today, but it was mostly good. When I'm at work, I feel like I'm helping people and it is a great distraction from everything else. I have the day off tomorrow and am planning on being mostly really lazy.

Write more if you remember what you were going to say. I hope you're enjoying your Friday night and doing something to distract you.

March 3, 2019

I'm having such a horrible time this morning. I want to get over this man, I do. I hate that I can't. I hate that I sit and think about him and his new girlfriend and whether they are serious, does he love her, does he ever think about me, all that stuff. I have been really good about not going to her Facebook page since the day in late January that I went to confirm things for myself. I really haven't had the urge to do so. I felt like I had seen what I needed to see and felt sad, but relieved also that I knew the truth. But now, I'm starting to want to look again. I don't know why. It's like I'm obsessed with him and with her and I can't stop. Instead of questioning myself about whether or not they are dating, now I'm questioning how serious they are and it's like I want to look for evidence that they are or are not serious. It's all I can think about. I run in circles in my mind thinking about what I saw a month ago and what it means. Or doesn't mean.

I want this to stop. I would have thought that by staying in no contact that it would start to get easier and that I would start to move on. And I know I haven't been perfect, because I did go and look at her Facebook page a month ago. But I felt that I needed to have clarity because the not knowing was making me nuts. But even after I got confirmation that they were in fact dating, I still don't feel better. I thought that would shake me into accepting things and to moving on. But obviously it hasn't. I know a lot of people will say that if you're in no contact, you shouldn't put any focus on them, but this seems impossible for me. I have enough willpower to not text him or email him, but how in the world can you just not think about someone?

Please someone tell me that it will get better. I can't do this anymore. I feel like a shell of my former self. The only positive thing I can hang onto is that despite the amount of emotional energy I'm spending on him, he has no idea. For all he knows, I never think of him and am totally over him. That's the only thing that keeps me going sometimes.

March 3, 2019

Hi Nola,

I am sorry you are struggling this morning. Judging from your posts, you are, like me, a person who forms strong attachments and has difficulty letting go of them. I also relate to your tendency to dwell and ruminate--I am a champion at these things!

I definitely think that this will get better for you. You will, slowly, detach and recover from the loss. If I may, here are three suggestions to facilitate the healing process:

1) Remove (delete and block) both your ex and his new gf from all social media. This might seem drastic, and you might worry about what he will think, but this step is truly self-empowering and protects you from new, possibly hurtful information.

2) Stay as busy as humanly possible. I don't mean run away from your feelings or stuff them down when they arise. But free time can be deadly for folks like us who tend to ruminate. After one breakup, I went to a lot of movies, read mystery novels, took up yoga, and joined Meetups. Again, this is different than avoiding your emotions.

3) Be kind to yourself. Little treats, like a latte or a manicure, can boost your spirits. Remember, you just need to take it day by day. What's one small indulgence you could give yourself today?

Sending good thoughts!

M.

March 3, 2019

I'm having such a horrible time this morning. I want to get over this man, I do. I hate that I can't. I hate that I sit and think about him and his new girlfriend and whether they are serious, does he love her, does he ever think about me, all that stuff. I have been really good about not going to her

It will get better but one thing I found in my past is trying to "not think" about them doesn't work. You need to let your thoughts be and accept that they are going to be there with you for awhile. What you have to do is fill your mind up with other things to think about and stress about and worry about, so that those things will end up forcefully occupying your thought process instead. How do you do that? You change your routine.

Is this something you've done?

If you are used to your routine, you don't really need to think it all that much about it. There's no challenge involved and so you become comfortable. It's almost as if you can get through your on auto-pilot which leaves room to think about them.

When I went back to school, I became stressed with the workload. So I was forced to put thoughts of my ex to the back and direct my focus onto doing well in my studies. It wasn't easy. My mind would think about her time to time..especially in the beginning. But I forced myself to push through. What started to make it easier was when I began seeing good grades and by default, ended up becoming close to my classmates since we were all struggling together to get through the miserable program. I spent more time, studying and writing out and thinking about the process of how I was going to accomplish assignments, pass tests/exams. I'd use the off-time to hit the gym. The rest would go to the people I loved, like my family. Over time, the merit those results brought to me has made getting through the days nearly effortless and it's worked for every single ex, I've had to get over.

And no it didn't miraculously cure me. I just balanced the moving forward with the letting myself feel..that's all. And when you move forward..move forward strategically. As soon as I was done my program, my thoughts did start to creep back since my schedule relaxed, but by then, it just wasn't nearly as paralyzing as it used to be and this time I was one step educationally higher than I was the previous year with the added bonus of some new friends to add to my life..all of which gave back to my healing. So every move has to be calculated. Has to target your needs or weaknesses. You have to give that extra focus and that extra effort in the beginning to get the wheels turning but once they're going..the momentum of life just takes over and does the rest.

I hope that makes sense. I know a lot of people aren't a fan of this solution but I always advocate it because your routine is something you can largely control.

- Beach

Edited March 3, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

March 3, 2019

I've been meaning to sign in and post all weekend but every time I sat down to do it I just couldn't. I've had a really rough weekend (I'll explain) and I've just felt emotional. For the life of me I wish I could say or do something to make you feel better. I feel the same way. One step forward and two steps back most days. I just looked this up because I have heard talk of there being some kind of formula for how long it takes to get over a break up. A few of the websites I just read said it takes approximately half the time of the relationship to get over someone. Clearly that's totally dependent on the feelings involved, situation, etc. I think in your situation you aren't just trying to get over a break up where one person ended it due to lack of feelings, personality clash, etc. It ended because of a betrayal. A pretty freaking big one in my opinion. Regardless of what your relationship "status" was you had certain understood expectations that were not met. The betrayal you experienced was traumatic and hurtful. Not only that but you didn't have the closure you really wanted or needed from him. I know people say that we don't get closure from other people, we get it within ourselves. I'm sorry but sometimes that just feels like bull****. I know sometimes we can't get closure from someone else but sometimes we can. And when we do I think it does assist the healing process. I also realize that when we can't get closure from someone else that we have to move past needing it but, damn, that takes time. It just does.

I find myself reading posts over and over about reclaiming power, not being a doormat, walking away when the situation isn't right, etc. I'm reading these things and I have moments where I feel very strong and am capable of doing those things. Then I have very weak moments where I just feel shameful that I allowed myself to fall so hard for someone that I know will only continue to disappoint and hurt me. I actually saw a post this morning and thought of you and I.

"Some days I blame him, other days, I blame myself. Some days I chalk it up to us being two people who simply didn't work out. Some days I can't stand the thought of him, other days, he's all I want to think of. Some days I ask God to hurry up and take him out of my heart... help me to fall out of love. And maybe it'll be like that for a while - in and out of my emotions, back and forth in mind... and maybe I need to stop beating myself up because of it, I mean ****, I should know better... the healing process takes time" CiCi B

This really resonated with me today as I felt sorry for myself this morning. So my closure started two days ago, on Friday. He initiated the conversation that I knew would eventually come. I haven't posted about it because I've just felt emotionally spent. Also, I keep feeling like I'm thread jacking so maybe I'll see if I can pm you with how it all went down. I don't know if I even have that ability yet based on the number of posts I've had.

I know all of the things to say about getting over a break up - fill your time with new things, keep busy, all of that. But sometimes it just hurts and some days are just terrible and no amount of new activities help to get through it. That's the truth for me. So I'm just trying to give myself a little bit of a break when I mess up or when I ruminate too long over him or when I think about everything too much. I am also trying to give myself a swift kick in the @ss some days. Basically, I don't know what the answers are or what to tell you to do. I know that, for me, it's not a fluid process and I just have to be ok with that.

March 3, 2019

Thank you everyone. I feel better now as it's a bit later and I took some steps to try to shift my mood.

@Beachead, I definitely think that when I have downtime is when it is the MOST dangerous. When I'm at work, or exercising, or focused on something (washing dishes, reading) it is not so bad. When I get time to just sit and think, that's when I can start to go into a tail spin. Perhaps I can make an emergency list on my phone of things I can do to distract my mind. Going outside, like for a walk or something, always helps, but obviously I can't always do that. I just finished a great book last night (Educated by Tara Westover if anyone's looking for a new one) and I wasn't focused on him while I was reading, so that's an option. Today, I called a good friend that also knows him and she gave me some really great advice that helped enormously. That's of course another option, but I also think I need things that don't have anything to do with him.

@Minneloa, I am a world champion ruminator. This is one of the things that I've been struggling with the most. It reminds me a bit of the Rubik's cube from the 80s. I will sit and go over and over and over something that I'm never going to solve. I will get to a point where I feel ok about it and can put it down. But somehow, I always seem to come back to it, either because I think of something that triggers it or I see something or maybe just because I have some downtime. And then I pick it up again and start turning it over and over again. I really, really want to break the cycle. Because right now, after talking to my friend and reading you guy's posts, I feel ok and somewhat at peace about it all. I don't like it and it still hurts, but I can accept it.

March 3, 2019

@TooMuch2Ask, I loved that quote. It totally sums up everything I feel. And it is an enormous relief to know that someone else, whomever Cici B is, feels it too. It's funny, because my friend said something to me this morning that you had said a page or two back. She said that he chose himself because he went with what was easy for him. Or, more accurately, he didn't take any action, because that was easier too. I know for a fact that if I hadn't confronted him, he would still be talking to me while continuing to date this woman. So he didn't even make a choice. I did. He just wanted to sit in that place and not have to do anything that was hard or might be difficult for him. Acknowledging that made me feel better. My friend also said he's very passive in this part of his life and I think that is very true.

I've seen that thing about how long it takes to get over someone and I've seen other equations too. I have no idea. I think, for me, it's always been at least 6 months, especially if it was someone that I really cared about. Not someone I went on a couple of dates with. And that 6 months was the time that it took me to look back and to be able to recognize the problems in the situation and to feel relief that I was out of the problems. I had the thought that the thing I won't miss at all about my recent ex is the push and pull. I spent so many nights wishing for him to do one thing or another and wondering why he was or wasn't doing something. I would read into everything he did and take it to mean something or not. Now his new girlfriend can do that. Of course, I still think about him, but I'm working on it.

Don't feel bad about "thread jacking". You can post whatever you'd like if it helps. Feel free to start your own thread too, if you'd like to get some other's opinions as well. I'm curious about the conversation. Please share if you'd like. I had a feeling that it was coming and to be honest, I think it's probably a good thing that it happened, although I'm sure it is terribly raw right now. For me, it's much worse to be left dangling and wondering rather than to have a clear sense of how the other person feels. With my first love, we went back and forth for years. I really loved him but wasn't ready to get married. After we had broken up for the last time, we were still really good friends. We talked fairly often and he stayed with me here for about a month while he was studying in town. I knew he was dating someone kind of seriously, but I didn't realize how serious it was. I wanted to know that we could get back together. One night we had a fight that started over something else and finally he told me that he knew I was really upset about his new relationship. He said "you and I are never going to be together again" and although it really, really hurt at the time, I think it also allowed me to accept that it was really over. There wasn't another chapter. I now know that was important for me to have that clear sense of "the end". With other relationships, including this last one, it's been much harder because there is a sense of an open ending. If no one says "it's over" then it can always come back, even if it shouldn't.

I hope you are able to do something loving for yourself tonight. I have to go to work in about an hour and a half. When I work night shifts I always feel a bit blue, but for me just getting out of the house is helpful. I went for a run this morning after I talked to my friend and that was enormously helpful.

How are you feeling about going to back to work and potentially seeing him at work tomorrow? You've been doing a pretty good job of keeping your distance so far. Hugs to you. I can't imagine trying to manage everything and trying to avoid him too.

March 4, 2019

I'm good to just post here as long as you are too . I enjoy posting here because sometimes it just helps to get it out and know that someone else is reading/listening. I definitely don't want/need my own thread lol!

CiCi B is fantastic - her posts are always so motivating for me because she is no nonsense when it comes to relationships and how women should be treated.

Yes, that is exactly right! He didn't make a choice at all. Even though, deep down, you know this it's still hard to fully accept sometimes. Like you've said - it's easier to believe the negative stuff about ourselves "why didn't he choose me, what could I have done differently, why wasn't I good enough". That's the rhetoric we hear and tell ourselves sometimes when 99% of the time it isn't about us at all. It's about them. We know all of this but that doesn't mean we won't have difficult days accepting it. I'm so glad your day improved and you were able to turn it around in your head.

So where do I even start? He basically told me what I already knew.... that he felt really rejected after I pushed him away that day and that is why he's been disconnected and pulled back. Ultimately, I pushed him away because I felt disconnected due to the push/pull nature of our relationship and we hadn't talked in a week at that point. It's not like I pulled away because I just didn't want to let him in or because I have issues being vulnerable with him. I don't. So even though I knew that was likely the reason this was going on I just couldn't bring myself to address it with him. For one, even if I brought it up it wouldn't have changed anything. He is who he is. He has made it clear through his actions in the past that my wants/needs aren't going to change who he is. He basically said all of this - he didn't contact me because he was scared I wouldn't reply, he didn't know what to do to re-initiate contact after he had said he wanted to just be "friends", he loves me, he will always love me, he's sorry he pushes me away sometimes and he can and will do better, he promises to do better, he wants me in his life, not a day goes by he doesn't think about me, he loves everything about me, "please don't ever stay away from me". I'm just emotionally exhausted. I know what being with a "player" is like and that is not who he is or what he is doing with me, which is why it has been SO hard to walk away or get out of this. He is not playing me. He is not trying to get in my pants - we don't have sex. I know he wants to do better. I really do believe that he loves me and wants me in his life. I just don't know how I can be part of his life in a healthy way. If he were playing me or if he had done what your ex did, I would do exactly as you have done. It would have been hard but I would have done it. I'm not saying he hasn't done just as much damage to me as your ex did to you but this decision just doesn't feel as cut and dry for some reason.

So, right now, I'm still reeling. I know what I need to do. I know. I'm just going to have a hard time following through. I just need to figure out how to do it and get through it. The positives are: 1) I at least know how he feels - I really wasn't sure given the state of the last month of our "relationship"; 2) I told him how upsetting it was how everything went down and how I felt; 3) no matter what, neither of us will hate the other or make things difficult at work.

Knowing all of that doesn't change the facts. The facts are: when things get tough he is going to pull away again despite his promise to do better; when he feels like we are getting too close he will pull away. The biggest indicator of future behavior is past behavior. It kills me when he does that. I know some people aren't bothered by it and can cope with it in their relationship. I just can't. It makes me crazy. Sometimes it feels like a power struggle - because I want him to initiate the communication he just won't sometimes because that's his way of maintaining some of the power and control. He would probably disagree. He would likely say that if he doesn't text me on a certain day or days in a row it's because he's overwhelmed or super busy. I just don't buy it. I've said it before... yes I know I could reach out to him and he would respond but I have told him that I prefer for him to be the one to reach out - even if it's a text that says "hey - i'm super busy today but I hope you're well and have a good day". Maybe that makes me old fashioned but that's literally the only thing I've ever asked for. So the fact that you can tell someone "there is not a day that goes by I haven't thought of you" and, at the same time, not text the same person that you know for a fact wants to hear from you once a day when you're busy and overwhelmed... it just doesn't make sense. When I type all of this out I feel so silly. The part that feels silly is that I could be the one to reach out those days. I could. I'm sure some people reading this are thinking "just text him on the days you don't hear from him and save yourself all of this grief". The reason I don't is because if he can't do that simple request then the depth of his emotional unavailability isn't going to work for me anyway. I know I've always known this. It's just so damn hard to walk away. So.Damn.Hard.

I hope I don't have to see him tomorrow. At least I know where he stands and how he feels, even though it's such an f'ed up situation. Thanks for the post and encouragement. It's always so great to read your posts. I painted my nails today so that was nice. Also spent the day with my kids - we are on a week on/week off schedule so I got them back today. That always keeps me happier and busier

Edited March 4, 2019 by TooMuch2Ask

March 4, 2019

@TooMuch2Ask, first of all, I'm glad that you guys were able to have it out and kind of clear the air. That awkward, avoiding each other, not talking about what's really underneath was not a good situation for you. I know this conversation was not what you would have wanted, but I think you got some really good information here.

So the fact that you can tell someone "there is not a day that goes by I haven't thought of you" and, at the same time, not text the same person that you know for a fact wants to hear from you once a day when you're busy and overwhelmed... it just doesn't make sense.

THIS THIS THIS!!!

I was struck by this and what you said about how you wanted him to be the one to initiate the conversation. I don't think there is anything wrong with that, but do you think your sense of unease with the communication might be indicative of an overall broader sense of unease about the relationship? I know, for me, when a relationship is going well and I feel a sense of equal "power", I don't worry about who is contacting who. Power is probably not the best word, but I think you know what I mean. When you feel secure in a relationship, you don't worry about being seen as too pushy or scaring him away or whatever. At least for me, that's always been the case. I'm wondering if the this is your subconscious trying to tell you something about the relationship, namely that he's not all in it. So you are looking for him to prove it to you by being more regularly in contact with you. And he is, in a sense, rebelling against that. Because he KNOWS you want him to contact you and for whatever reason he can't or won't do that. I completely agree that it does not make any logical sense for him to have things very clearly spelled out for him ("I want you to contact me every day") and for him to say you're so important to him, but then to also say he's too busy to hold up this end.

With my ex, we had several conversations about how I wanted him to be more in contact with me. He was great in the beginning and I felt really special to him. But over time, especially as I started talking about where the relationship was going, he started pulling away. I tried to be easy going about it at first, but then I started getting frustrated. It came out a few times and he would always say that he was super busy with his children, his work, etc and he just couldn't get in touch as much as I wanted him too. But there was always that little nagging voice in my head that said that he wasn't too busy when we first started dating. And I ignored that little voice for a really long time. I thought he was so wonderful and I loved him. I wanted to hold on and hope that it would change, but of course it did not.

I don't blame you for struggling with this. Of course it's not cut and dried. You love this guy. It's super hard to look at that, look at the wonderful times you've had, the great parts of him, and all that, and then to walk away. Not because he doesn't love you, but because there is something that is holding him back from being all in for a relationship with you. Only you can decide what to do. I don't think he is using you. I don't think most people set out to use another person, consciously. I think that he is likely selfish. Not in a terrible way, but in a way of knowing that he can't be what you want, but wanting to be with you anyway. I think he will stay in a kind of gray area with you as long as you let him because he doesn't want to lose you.

I keep thinking about what @Endonote said a page or two back, that if a man isn't willing to take a relationship to the next level in the first few months, he probably won't if things stay the same. I think there is some real wisdom to that. Not to put any pressure on you. It just struck me, because it's nice to hear a man's perspective on things.

How was work today? How are you coping?

Ugh, NC never gets any easier

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