Ugh, NC never gets any easier

[Twizzlestick]

Beach-

 

Thanks mate, yes wise words to heed. It’s so easy to be suckered in. Essentially she does have some merit in her actions as it did have an effect. I certainly have gone through all the “what ifs” in my head. Feeling uncertain that I’ve done the right thing of NC. But I’ve made sure to square that firmly away thanks to advice on here and chatting to a friend who luckily gave good advice. I dont want to hand back the feeling of dignity I’ve earned by reaching out to such low ball and childish provocations. I’m worth more than that. One thing that stung and still stings is feeling so low before her and now I’m feeling that change I don’t want to go back there.

 

Too much to ask -

 

Your analogy of a child with a toy really does sum up well how she gets. She’s always been one to get angry with others for not doing what she wants them to do. She’s not a great one for self question and admitting the contributions her own actions have on the success of netting what she wishes. She gets it from her Mum ( a whole other topic). She’s always been a very much “come to me” person. I don’t think I’ve ever seen her persue or show regret. She’s very passive, like a queen.

 

Nolanola -

 

I read your discription of loss of control over me and that made me feel a little burst of empower and self esteem. So thank you for that. Reading it like that really did remind myself that my value is on the up. I think that’s at the core of this. I felt like a mongrel dog, a fired court jester before the Queen during the last months of our rele, notably due the way I was treated and then the words said to me during the coups de grace. Her blocking me did kick me down a peg to that feeling of lower value again. It was a carefully crafted move by her as, in effect, it did hurt. However reading your reply, beaches and toomuch’s reminds me that far from being the low value mongrel for her at month 5 to do this shows me my value is up. Not hung up on her every word like it was when we were still in contact. Not validated by someone who messed me about for months.

Edited April 26, 2019 by Twizzlestick

[TooMuch2Ask]

@nola

 

I know exactly how you feel when you first found out he wasn’t going on the trip. I would have felt the exact same way. I am so glad he isn’t going. Like Twizz and others said - your trip will be much better without him there. I know your plan was to be cordial and, in theory, that sounds great. I believe that would have been very difficult for your soul to do that. You would have done it but it probably would have torn you up inside. I had a feeling he wasn’t going to be on the trip. If he is angry with you because you didn’t respond to his text then that says a lot about him. Instead, he should be angry with himself for how he treated you that allowed you to get to the point of ignoring his text. I don’t think he’s mad at you or hates you at all. He knows what he did and how he treated you and that this is all on him. If he’s somehow convinced himself it’s your fault then I would tend to think he’s a narcissist to be honest. I’m so glad you didn’t contact him. Like beached said - it’s all about choices. For whatever reason, he chose not to be on that trip and it will be such a blessing for you. You are WAY past needing closure from this man. I know you would like to be friends with him one day but I’m not sure that’s realistically possible unless you are truly indifferent toward him and his girlfriend. I also think that once you are truly indifferent toward him you won’t want to be friends with him or have any type of contact - just my opinion. Good for you on resisting that urge to contact because I know how strong that pull is.

 

My ex sent out an office email late Monday night giving an update on his cases because he is on annual leave all week. As soon as I read the email I felt panicked bc I had no idea he was going on leave and I felt so disconnected from him bc we are no longer communicating to that extent. I used to know all of these things ahead of time, etc. It made me sad and I felt way down as it was another reminder that the chapter in my life is closed. I wanted to text him soooooooo badly to make small talk and ask if he was going anywhere fun or just staying home. I resisted the urge and am SO glad I did. How foolish I would have felt afterward. He would have responded and answered any question I had but the reality is that if he wanted to keep me in his life to that extent he would have made better choices and done better when we were “together”. He didn’t so that is all I need to know. Last week I found myself wanting to know why this and why that (mostly why say one thing and do another). So I wrote it down in my journal instead of contacting him. This week has been fantastic (after I had a mini meltdown Monday night after reading the text lol). I’ve been able to come and go in the office without worrying or caring that he may be there when I go in. It has been awesomeeeeeee! Anyway, was just sharing with you my struggles over the last week in hopes that it will make you feel like you’re not alone but that staying NC is definitely the right thing to do.

 

I’m so glad to hear about your dad’s PET scan! That’s great news! Also glad to hear things are going well with marathon guy. Slow is definitely better. I’m glad you are finding yourself more attracted to him also !

 

 

@twizz

 

Your ex definitely sounds like a queen! You sound like you’re in such a better place. Not contacting her for her birthday was on point. I hope you will be in a place soon to put your heart back out there and meet someone else. Most healthy women are looking for an emotional guy that has his head on straight so I’m sure you won’t have a problem finding someone when you decide to get back out there!

[nolanola]

I truly appreciate everyone that took a moment to offer some words of advice and support when I needed it. Even though you guys are strangers, I have been more open on here in some ways than I have with all but my closest friends. I'm probably overly tired but I'm sitting here in tears from your kind words.

 

After landing in Frankfurt, checking into my hotel, taking a nap and a shower, I feel better. I am glad that I didn't fold and contact him because I think I would be regretting it greatly when I got an anemic response or worse, no response at all. As several of you very rightly pointed out, right now I can gain strength and self esteem by keeping my distance. Like so many of us, I am great at seeing other people's situations very clearly, but not so much my own. I should take my own advice more.

 

When I arrived at my hotel here, I had a bit of a wobble, as we usually stay in this hotel on the return of our trip and my ex and I had several good times here - not even sex related, just having a group dinner and laughs. I felt sad for a while, but I am just sitting with it and hoping it will pass, especially once I see my other friends in the morning.

 

I was reminded of something that happened a few years ago when I was breaking up with my previous ex. We were on the outs but hadn't had the final break. I was still hoping we might get back together, although he had been dating someone else by then. We were in residency training at the same time, although he was a few years after me. It came time for his graduation and by this time I was on the faculty. At this point, I hadn't seen him in months or even really spoken to him. But I thought he would be at the graduation, so I wore my best dress. I also wore a diamond bracelet he had given me when we were dating, in the hopes that he would see it and have some kind of revelation that we should get back together. I spent a lot of time thinking of what might happen. And you know what? He didn't show. All that effort on my part and he wasn't there. At the time, I think I was really disappointed in a similar way. I wanted that interaction and for him to see me looking nice in the hopes he would change his mind. I hadn't thought of that in years until yesterday -- I felt so similar.

 

I think I will ultimately be very glad he is not here. As much as I would have liked things to go like my script in my head, there's no guarantee they would have. He might have spent a lot of time talking about his girlfriend or texting her or something and I would have been heartbroken, no doubt about it. At least this way, there is no chance of that happening. I know my heart will still leap when someone says his name or something, but that will probably only be a little bit. Maybe in another year, if I am here next year, I will have healed enough that the prospect of seeing him with another woman or hearing he is talking about another woman won't be bothersome.

 

I really appreciated what all of you had to say about your own experiences. Somehow, just knowing that other people have had the exact same thoughts as I do is really comforting. That other people struggle or feel sad sometimes, even months and months later. Some days I pray that God will take this man from my heart. That he won't occupy my mind so much. But I think I am getting a lot better, this wobble excluded. To be honest, since his last text to me, I have not had the desire to reach out to him at all. I struggled whether to respond to that one, but since then I have felt ok in NC I can't lie...I have wanted him to reach out to me, but I have had no desire to reach out to him. So I think that's something, even if I'm wobbling a bit right now.

 

I saw something on Cici B's instagram that really resonated with me (thanks to TooMuch2Ask for introducing me to her!):

 

"I remember not being able to look at my friend in the face while I spoke, so I kept my eyes lowered to the ground. See not only was my heart troubled, but I was also embarrassed that I kept coming to her with the same damn issue over and over again. I remember the way she took my hand and squeezed it softly, letting me know she was still on my side, and interrupted me mid sentence - Baby girl. Look at me. She said. Look at me and listen carefully. Slowly, I lifted my head and met her eyes with mine. You have to stop seeing this man for who you want him to be, and start seeing him for exactly who he is ...and who he is, just isn't good for you"

[TooMuch2Ask]

@nola

 

I’m so glad you arrived to your first location safely. I LOVE CiCi B and everything she says. I have saved so many wise words from her and go back to read them frequently when I am feeling down or weak. It’s so helpful. You are much better off on this trip without him but that doesn’t negate the sadness that I know you feel right now. It’s almost like you’ve received closure even though you didn’t have a conversation with him. His lack of attendance is also closure. It says something that he isn’t there and I think you’re feeling that also. I’m sorry you’re hurting right now but I do think this may be the nail in the coffin for you. Wear your nice outfit tomorrow - the one you bought to wear in front of him. Wear it for you because it makes you feel pretty. Be glad that God showed you who this man is/was before one more day passed in October. I identify so much with the quote you posted. It’s so easy to perseverate over how we view someone versus seeing them for who they truly are. I agree with your assessment in how far you’ve come. So very far. Hugs to you tonight. I know it hurts but you are now on the other side and can finally move forward. I think this trip being in the back of your mind for so many months may have kept you from fully closing the door. Now you can close it and open another one. Have a fantastic trip - post when you can. I’m looking forward to hearing all about it!

[nolanola]

Well, I've arrived at my final destination, which is in northern Iraq. It's been a long day traveling, but I feel ok. I thought I would feel more sad thinking of my ex and that he is not here, but I really haven't.

 

This morning, on the plane, I re-read a book I read right after everything went down that I hadn't looked at since. It is called The No Contact Rule by Natalie Lue (the same woman that does the Baggage Reclaim website). I remember thinking it was really good at the time, but it had so many good points that I think I had to wait a while to really understand and appreciate. For one, she talks a lot about some beliefs and fears about NC and why you need to do it. Specifically, she has a lot of points like "If you're doing xyz, you need NC" and so many of them apply to me. She also pointed out that when a relationship ends, the healthy thing to do is for the two people to go their separate ways at first. None of this "let's be friends" bs. The healthy thing for both people to do is to leave the other one alone and learn to move on without the other. It made me think a lot about my situation. I know that I didn't handle things the best way I could have, in staying in touch with him for so long. I don't think he set out to devalue me or string me along, but that's what happened. It also made me think that perhaps when I did not respond to my ex the last time, he realized that I needed some space and is letting me move on. Maybe it's pollyanna of me, but I'd like to think that.

 

I do feel a sense of relief that he isn't here. I get a pang every now and then, but just not having my stomach in knots about what he's doing or whether he's been attentive towards me is really freeing. I don't think his coming or not coming had much to do with me: he was apparently scheduled to be here until pretty recently and I have been planning on being here since late last year. He missed another year due to work stuff so I would guess it's the same or maybe things with his children. Not really my affair though.

 

I had a good evening with my friends and didn't think about him a whole lot. I hope the week will continue in a similar fashion. If someone mentions him or we spend a prolonged amount of time talking about him, I know I will feel bad for a while, but I'm hoping to minimize that. I am also really, really hoping that when I go home I will be able to put steps toward letting him go and moving on with my own life.

 

Will keep updating at the week goes. @endnote, I would love to hear about your travels too!!

[Twizzlestick]

Nolanola

 

I’m really glad you made it through the trip without cracking. That’s some challenge. I find being far away from home soil in “exotic” places really makes us feel lonely and even more wanting to reach out, so nice one for powering through. You’ll thank yourself

 

I wrote something on another thread about this process not being linear. It’s only from my own observations of myself . And my own observations bit me in the backside. The last two days the feelings of remorse came back, with an annoying reflective dream about her. I haven’t dreamt about her in a good while. Two things I reckon, I felt a bit more comfortable and decided to “stare it in the face” and think about the “past” yesterday, almost like testing the waters. Also I’ve got to go back to Ireland tomorrow. Only for 1 day, but it’s making me anxious. I get this, one min fine and the problem gets shelved, then I get plummeted back.

 

So very similar to yourself. We ebb and flow. Miles under the wheels. I think on your shoes the possibility that you always might see him in work circles is a challenge as it creates possible scenarios for the mind to fixate on.

 

I’ve actually found being blocked (rather unjustly I might say ha ha ) has helped me on one face as well as fill me with anxiety on the other face. I’m dreading bumping into her in Ireland. I just feel all my dignity will be popped if she claps eyes on me. I’ll become just ordinary and human again, not this person that disappeared into the ether. I prefer to be the man of mystery. Knowing she feels that makes me feel a bit better and stronger, if you know what I mean. I don’t want her to be able to see me, and judge me looking all tired from a flight with crinkles clothes and greys at the side. All normal.

 

So maybe the same for you. Remind yourself that when you’re not seeing him that’s it, woman of mystery. It’s much more empowering to us, and the point is helps us keep our self value if we start to see ourselves as prizes lost. I reckon self value and esteem are at the heart of moving on a bit. That’s what I’ve noticed with myself anyway.

 

I view it like this, as a kid I fixated and became obsessed with getting a radio controlled car. It lasted months, I’d flick through magazines and ruminate on what it was like to own. The more it was out of reach the more it became this thing, like Excalibur, not a bunch of mere Japanese plastic. When I finally got one it was great for a bit then became normal. I don’t want to be that car I owned. Remain the halo version in the mind

[CPpanther]

@nolanola

 

I like your grandma's comparison of fighting a pig but the pig enoying getting dirty, haha!

 

I am glad you made it through your trip. Maybe the no showing of your ex felt like disappointment at first because we tend to not like it when things do not go as planned/expected. On the long run you may be happy things went the way they did. I do agree with everyone saying contacting your ex is like a drug and your underlying 'addiction' was probably at work here as well.

I remember someone once saying you cannot stop thinking about your ex if you keep receiving new information about them. They said you need to first stop the input (by doing NC) and then start smashing the existing information and memories to pieces. Whenever I feel the need to contact my ex I try to hold on to this idea. I am no longer feeding my brain with new information and I am trying to smash everything that has to do with him.

[nolanola]

@twizzlestick, That was so helpful, thank you so much. Thinking that I want to keep myself a "woman of mystery" is a good way to think about it. When I was breaking up with my previous guy, it was very helpful for me to think about letting him wonder why he hadn't heard from me or what I was up to. That kept me motivated when I would get the urge to break down and text him. So maybe if I can focus on that when I feel the urge to reach out it will be a good deterrent.

 

So far, there hasn't been a ton of talk about my ex while I'm here, which is good. The first day, we were at lunch when someone mentioned about him not being here. One of the other guys said "Oh, he's getting his MBA, so he's been super busy". When he said that, I had a pang in my heart for a few reasons. For one, my ex is very driven and successful. It was one of the things that I liked most about him. He is already a neurosurgeon and obviously works very hard at that. So to add on studying for an MBA as well is really nuts to me, but that is just who he is. A very hard worker who is always striving to achieve. I find it a very attractive quality, so I had a little pang about that. And also, I thought about the fact that I didn't know about this, because we haven't spoken in 6 months. So knowing that someone else's life is going on without you in it is a little painful, even though it is the natural thing that happens.

 

When I think about it though, I sometimes wonder if he hides himself in his work to avoid intimacy. He was always so busy when we were dating and I didn't pressure him a lot because I know how demanding his job is. But my therapist one time mentioned to me that perhaps it was a convenient excuse for him. Not that he isn't busy, because I know he is, but that it's something he can use to put space between himself and someone. So even though I admire his drive and desire for achievement, the reality of trying to date someone like that is that he just isn't around a lot. Maybe he is different now, but the fact that he took on getting the MBA in the midst of everything else makes me wonder if he is different at all or just the same.

 

Last night, I was a bit down in the dumps in the evening. I feel lonely and I miss having that "person" in my life. I texted marathon guy on Sunday, because I knew he was doing a race this past weekend. He responded and was really nice and seemed happy to hear from me, but he hasn't reached out first since I left to come here, so I don't know. Maybe that is fizzling out too. Sometimes I feel like there is some horrible, fatal flaw about me that everyone sees eventually. It is a very sad feeling.

[Twizzlestick]

. Sometimes I feel like there is some horrible, fatal flaw about me that everyone sees eventually. It is a very sad feeling.

 

This lie we tell ourselves, I feel that sometimes. It is a lie. An utter fib. Look at the facts. We’re judging ourselves largely based off one person who ended a rele. It’s a rejection and from what I read stimulates alsorts of feelings of self doubt. It’s something to do with our instinctive traits of not wanting to be abandoned to feel safe. I suppose back when wild animals could snatch us from our stick dwellings and gobble us up if people we trusted when young left us. That hang up is still with us and manifests itself in a bizarre way in our modern reles.

 

Secondly the world of dating is astonishingly fickle. People these days view it like shopping on amazon. There’s factually no way one person can determine a persons emperical worth. I mean, I’ve had people call me a “xxxxxx” in a supermarket car park because I wasn’t driving at 100 mph. Doesn’t mean I then question my worth. The reason we do it with dates is because we “think” we’ve shown that person who we are and what we offer. It’s like we’ve done our sales pitch. Bare in mind statistically there’s a boat ton of guys or women who’d give their arm to date us. We can’t make judgements on one or two loose occasions. To do so puts these people up on a pedestal as if they’re of some higher insight.

 

Anyway aren’t you a medical doctor?! I know from my mates meeting an intelligent woman who’s a doctor used to feature in the “halo” girlfriends category when younger ha!!

 

Doctors are mystical people to us mortals (how the hell can you know all that stuff) and finding a girl who was one kind of was a bit unicorn. You prob don’t see that as you work in that world. Not saying a job defines a person, but the fact you do it and are capable of it infers a myriad of other things that are admired by an awful lot of blokes. So there’s one way you can give yourself a kick and remind yourself you’re highly attractive to the world.

Edited May 1, 2019 by Twizzlestick

[nolanola]

Thanks @Twizzlestick. It's great to see you in a place to be giving optimistic advice to others!! That is great. I know healing is not a straight line, but it does feel good to get out of the sheer misery stage, doesn't it?

 

It's been somewhat of a rough week for me here. I love my work here and most of the people on the team. They are incredible people. One of my closest friends from the group unfortunately could not be with us this year as her brother has been sick and I miss her energy a lot.

 

Last night, one man that I don't know well (it is his first trip with us) was talking about his children and asked if I had children or was married. When I said no to both, he at first made a joke about how that was how I looked so fresh. But then he said "what, you don't like children?" which really stung because of course I tried to have children several times over the past year without success and it has been heartbreaking for me. Then a couple other guys came up and joined us and they were talking also about children. Several of the men are younger (early 30s probably) and they were saying they someday want to get married and have children. The same guy that asked me about children then said to them "well, you don't want a woman older than 35, because then you have to have children right away" and they all were agreeing. At that point, I was tired and the conversation was really upsetting to me, so I said "Ok, I'm out", meaning that I was going to bed. The guy turned to me and said "What? What are you, 39? How old are you?". I was shocked that he was so direct. I am 42 and am conscious of the fact that I'm not 35 anymore. However, I certainly don't want to feel like some Holstein cow that is ready for slaughter or something. We all went up the stairs to bed and it was all I could do to keep my tears in until I could get into my room. I started sobbing as soon as I closed the door.

 

I'm not at my best right now. I don't feel good about myself and don't have that confidence. I am so glad my ex is not here. If he was standing there last night when all that went down, I think I probably would have been so embarrassed I would never want to see any of them again. I realize I am successful in my career and I think I am intelligent, but honestly, I'm not sure this is such an attractive quality to anyone. I don't know. I hope once I go home I will be in a better place again.

[Twizzlestick]

Nolanola

 

I’m really sorry to hear you had to go through that, that is astonishingly bad manners and bad form by anyone’s standards. It sounds like you were surrounded by a cluster of unpleasant people. I can assure you that’s not how everyone thinks. “Fxxx em” I say. I dont at 39 have children myself and found there “can be” sometimes an air of something quite unpleasant when you get gaggles of folk with children backslapping themselves about their life choices. I don’t know quite what people think gives them the right to do it but they need a custard pie to the face when they set off. I’m not very tolerant when it comes to people acting with superiority and judgement (I prob should work on that ha, perhaps not ). Anyway, stuff them.

 

Thanks, funnily I’m not actually in a mega positive place right this moment, and give encouraging advice rather from that point of view of I know what makes sense and others have done it for me, whilst inwardly not feeling like it at all myself . It seems so common to feel like that on here. Which leads me too..

 

Update.. right troops.

 

I had to drop my car to Ireland. Was dreading it. Did it in a oner.

 

Battle plan I constructed was leave 8pm Monday eve, drive 6 hours to port, catch 0345 ferry on tues morn, arrive 0600. Wait for place to open at 0900. They drive me to airport to catch 1110am flight home. Picked up by sister at 1215pm. Drive home 1.5 hours then sleep. As you can see an insane schedule.

 

I’m now officially completely ruined with tiredness a day later. But in the words of John Cusack in the horror film 1408, the ethos was

 

“in, out - no one gets hurt”

 

Well that was the plan...Only fly in the ointment was I had to use the airline where my ex works as crew alongside all my former colleagues to fly home.

 

Well. I dodged the first gambled bullet. She wasn’t on the plane. But two of her friends were who I also new. One was frosty at first, the other friendly.

 

I’d already decided to be normal as didn’t want to appear bothered.

 

They said to come to the galley for a chat. Mm. Hard to refuse without appearing like anything is but utterly normal as I worked with these people for ten years and haven’t seen them in ages. Mmm. Damn, have to go.

 

Well. We got talking and I displayed positive confidence. Got in that I was kite surfing over the next few days. Added how busy I was.

 

They said I was “looking really well” joking that they would pass that back to her (bet they say I looked like hell).

 

Prob is they asked probing, ambushing questions. I found myself backing up against the coffee machine slightly . Questions like - have I spoken to her, and am I dating.

 

I kept it strictly on point saying I’d “not hear from her since I left Ireland and that we’d had a sensible discussion that it was for the best to take some distance and it had been a very amicable no drama situation”. Mm not sure if I said the right thing, I didn’t want to in anyway come across like I was bothered by it and wanted to amp it all down, like it was merely “one of those things”

 

To the question “was I seeing anyone new”, I said “no not at the moment, I’m really enjoying my own time at the min and have been busy”. One girl said “oh you’ll prob meet someone within 3 years and be married. I laughed and said “yes that’s usually the way these things happen”

 

So didn’t want to make out falsely that I was in another rele, but didn’t want to give impression I was pining for this ex. I hope I did right in my answer.

 

Looking back this convo will guaranteed be fed back over the frontlines in dispatches. They commented I “looked really well”. Now, whether that gets passed back I do not no. It might get censored into “he looked like a dripping bag of potatoes”

 

I tried to display cheerfulness, getting in as much as poss about what I’m doing this year and avoided asking anything about the ex. I just answered their questions about that situation as neutrally and unphased as poss. I played it down essentially. I didn’t want to say “I don’t want to talk about it” or be evasive as that would infer I’m still hurt.

 

However, to the meat and spuds of this. The fallout...

 

I’ve come away and that trip has set me right back. It’s being back in the environment and that convo with those former colleagues. I’m left feeling all my work is jeopardised . That I’ve run my mouth and given the “Germans” too much intel about my allied operations. I’m not having a good few days since back and trying to kick myself in the ball bearings. Quite honestly the pain and loss is creeping back with a hand on my shoulder like an old opponent. And it’s got me grasped.

 

That’s the update folks. I’ve got to pick the car up in 3 weeks. I’ve already made alternative provision for transport to avoid another ambush.

Edited May 1, 2019 by Twizzlestick

[nolanola]

@Twizzlestick, I actually think you handled that pretty well!! Any time we are met with things or people that remind us of our exes, it is like a miniature version of breaking NC, even if it's not by our design. That is going to shove our exes and those memories back in our faces and hearts. It's very logical that it would happen that way. I completely understand as I was met with that on this trip and still am -- I am seeing people every day that work with my ex and know him and probably his girlfriend too.

 

I think the best thing you can do right now is nothing. You acted fine with her friends, although I would advise that if something like that happens again (them inviting you somewhere), you should make up another engagement to avoid spending time with them. Be honest with yourself -- did you "have" to go? Remember what you told me - you want to be a man of mystery. If you minimize your contact with them, you won't get in the awkward position of having to explain what you're doing or who you are dating. I think you handled the dating question perfectly. It's actually worse in her mind maybe that you're not seeing someone. If you were, that would explain why you have backed away. But if you aren't, then you are really moving on. So let her stew on that for a bit.

 

Sit with your feelings, don't act of them right now. DO NOT CONTACT HER UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES. Do something nice for yourself this evening to take your mind off of it. I don't think you've done anything wrong here with what you've said or how you came across. Don't worry about trying to "fix" it. I know that feeling. Vent here if you need to. It's so up and down. A few great days and then you feel sad again - we all understand.

[Twizzlestick]

Thanks Nolanola

 

That has cheered me up a little. I realised I’d become fixated by have I damaged my work. This seems prob a bit odd to most people as it’s not meant to be about your ex. Funnily it’s more to do with my self esteem. It lifts me when I feel I’m a source of curiosity. I managed to turn what was a painful episode of being blocked into something that lifted me when my counsellor said “to do that at month five I can assure you, you’re very much on her mind and this should give your self esteem a lift. Stay no contact, you’re climbing the stairs”. A lot of damage to me was done feeling so low when we ended. I’m glad to hear you think I didn’t damage it by what I said. I like that my answer about dating might not give cause for comfort .

 

You know, I did an entire appraisal of this trip. I can honestly say there was zero ulterior hidden motives inside me to do with seeing her. In fact the risk had me up nights. Being NC has become a thing to me. Almost an obesession.

 

Its actually hard to explain the reason I went forward with the trip. My car (it’s a special rare one) got damaged by some falling masonry shortly before I was dumped, then someone blinking reversed into it the day after I was dumped ( no wasn’t her ). It’s a strange colour and hell to get a paint match. I’ve had lots of other body shops fail with it.

 

There’s one of the best body shops around in Ireland and they’d spent weeks trying to get a paint match. It became a point to me that I wanted it fixed, somehow didn’t want that to be damaged like me. Sounds utterly insane. It is a hobby car but I’m not that into the car to the point of obesession. it’s only an object. It’s actually more about me underneath I think.

 

I can get it back this time using a different route. It was not feasible on the way out unfortunately without spending a night in Ireland. I decided the pain of spending a night there might outweigh the risk of bumping into her. I didn’t consider the eventuality I’d be grilled by the work colleagues. I just thought it would be the usual “nice to see you” from some colleagues as I boarded. Anyway, as long as I got away with it. Never again ha

 

Outside of that encounter there is zero risk of being invited anywhere by mutual acquaintances. I live in another country and don’t work for the same company anymore. We have zero connections anymore. I absolutely don’t want to conact her, I just have become remorseful that somehow I’ve made myself less mysterious. But then again, maybe some if that “intel” might actually grate on her. Hope so

Edited May 1, 2019 by Twizzlestick

[nolanola]

I'm on my way home now and overall I think the week went ok. After the first day I didn't hear much mention of him (until the end, more on that in a sec) so I think that made it a bit easier. Definitely being in the places that I associate with him and where we first met -- all that -- made it harder. Even without him there. I remember when I broke up with my previous ex, I stayed away from his side of town for years until I felt like I could go there without anxiety. Even now, when I drive past his exit on the interstate, I get a flash of it. I think it's the same with this. Just being in the same places, around people that also know him and adore him, was enough to stoke that anxiety and to make me relive a lot of my feelings of worthlessness, even without him physically there.

 

But I focused on my work and that made it a bit easier. The guy that made the rude comments to me early in the week appeared to realize he wasn't being very nice and by the end of the trip he and I had become friends. I stopped crying at night.

 

The last day I was there, yesterday, we went to get lunch on our way to the airport. I was sitting with one guy that is friends with my ex and one of the other neurosurgeons that was with us for the first time (he doesn't know my ex but has heard about him). Sitting across from us was the leader of our trip, who thinks very highly of my ex. We were talking about all the patients that needed help that they didn't have time to operate on and they were talking about when we hopefully return next year. The one guy referenced my ex and said (to the other neurosurgeon) "You'll really like (my ex), he's a great guy and a really good surgeon". I felt my stomach drop at the mention of his name and I looked down at my plate and kept my focus there, praying they wouldn't say anything about him that would be upsetting. Out of the corner of my eye, I could feel the leader's eyes on me, but I couldn't bring myself to meet his eyes. I'm not really sure of how many people from our trip know that my ex and I were involved, but I'm positive the leader does. A few years ago, we were sitting in a small group when someone brought up my ex. The leader turned to me and said "you know he is divorced now" and gave me an interesting look. He said something about how awful the divorce had been and how glad he was that my ex was doing better (or something like that). I got the impression that he was basically giving me his "permission" to date him, giving me the impression that he knew about us. So when I felt him looking at me at lunch yesterday, my heart jumped because I wasn't sure if he thought there was still something going on or maybe he just knew the history and wanted to see how I would react to the mention of his name. It probably sounds like a small and insignificant thing, but it stuck with me for a while.

 

Now that I'm almost home (well, another 6 hours or so to go), I feel a bit of a sense of relief. It's kind of like when I stopped going to my previous ex's side of town. I knew I wouldn't see him and wouldn't have to see the evidence of what his life was or who he was with. My current ex lives so far away that I doubt I'll run into him anytime soon. There is always the chance that I would see him on our trip next year, but that's probably about a year away and I hope I will have moved on by then. I had the thought that maybe the universe knew that I wasn't ready to see him again. That is was a blessing in disguise that he wasn't with us this year. From what I can tell, it was a last minute decision for him to not go, but I absolutely think it had nothing to do with me. He would never have let down the leader of our team or the other neurosurgeon if he could help it. Something else came up and I think it was for the best. I don't think I would have handled myself very well having to face him every night or for hours at a time. Perhaps the universe was telling me that I need more time to heal and to focus on moving on as I have been.

 

After a period of a few days' silence, I did hear from marathon guy over the past few days multiple times. The first was to just check in and see how things were going and the second was to check in again and to try to set up another date. It's going to be a bit of a wait between our schedules, but I actually like that it's progressing slowly. I don't think I'm ready to jump into something serious and I think it's a nice and healthy thing to focus on building the ground work of getting to know someone first.

 

I feel optimistic again. And I am SO GLAD I didn't break NC. Although I know I shouldn't, I can't help but have a small bit of wondering in the back of my mind about whether my ex has thought of me this week, as he knows I am there. There are tons of pictures of our group floating around from everyone on the trip and I feel pretty sure he will see them at some point. I think I look happy in them and that makes me feel good. That's how I would like him to see me, like twizzlestick said, as a woman of mystery.

[Endnote]

Hey all, figured I'd update on my case since there has been some pending stuff. First off, my trip to the Middle East was phenomenal. First real trip without my ex in the plan in any way. It was a great time, and despite getting sick for a couple of days I enjoyed the hell out of it and seeing some of the legendary sites was awesome. Upon my return I had to get back to the elephant in the room and get my ex to send what she owed me and get her things back to her.

 

I texted her to send me what she owed before I would leave her stuff on my front porch today. Sure enough she sent the rest though she followed it up with a text asking me not to do anything to her stuff. I've never been vindictive so I'm not sure where this was coming from. I assumed she said this because I have been completely cold since she broke up with me. I boxed up the few things that hadn't been boxed up and put'em on my porch and took off for work. She texted me after and let me know that I gave her something that wasn't hers (woops! that was an honest mistake), I texted back thanks and left it at that.

 

It's still been a struggle. The 8 month mark passed while I was gone and it's still hard to come to terms with everything. I guess I just need more time. While on the trip I met a girl from the UK that I hit it off with and while we exchanged contact info it's not going to go anywhere because I am no fan of LDRs. She was a cool person (and she told me that I looked 28! Sweet!) and it did give me some hope that I can put myself out there again, but I still have a lot of healing to do. Back to the NC grind I guess. I still have plenty of plans this year. I think around the year mark this August I'm gonna start putting myself out there again, maybe ask a girls or two out on a date see if I can get anywhere.

 

@nolanola I'm glad you stuck to NC and that it gave you a sense of relief. Taking things slow with marathon guy is still going okay? I don't think every relationship has to be built on a strong initial attraction, though I've found that all my relationships started that way. It was keeping the attraction going where both sides faltered. Anyhow, would love to know how you are now that we're all back to our normal routines. Have a good weekend.

[nolanola]

@Endnote, good to hear from you. I'm glad your trip went well. Traveling always helps me to feel better, it's like pretending to be someone else for a while. I think it's great that you made a connection with someone - even if she lives far away. One of the most difficult things for me with all this has been believing that I could find someone else again and that I would feel that sense of possibility again. So even if your situation doesn't go anywhere, I would imagine it would feel good to make that connection and to know that there are possibilities out there. And who knows what will happen? Maybe you guys stay friends and someone winds up closer to the other one down the line?

 

How are you feeling now that that last connection to your ex has been dealt with? I felt a great sense of relief when my trip was over, but after that faded I felt a sense of emptiness. That was my last possible connection to my ex for the foreseeable future and that makes me sad. Do you feel similar in your situation? Or does it feel good to have broken that last tie? I'm glad that it went off without too much drama and that you were repaid the money you are owed.

 

I hear people talking about NC for 3 months or 60 days or whatever and I think it really should be more like a year. Not that you can just go back to "normal" after that time period, but that the time period that you need to heal after a relationship is a lot longer than people think. At least I think it is for me. I'm at 6 months and although I do feel, on the balance, a lot better than I did 3 months ago and certainly 5 months ago, I think I have a long way to go too.

 

I sometimes wonder if I'm rushing things by pursuing dating online. But, to be honest, I really like having something else to look forward to and to give me something else to think about. When I was overseas, I got a text from marathon guy one night and I got really excited when I saw it. That was a nice feeling.

 

All of my more recent relationships have started with strong physical chemistry and at a warp speed. I'm really cognizant that maybe I need to try things differently. Maybe establish more of a friendship before turning things physical? I'm ok with the idea of taking things slowly, as long as we continue to move forward. I feel a little bit unsure of what he thinks. He seems to want to keep seeing me and keeps asking to get together. Our schedules prevent us from seeing each other more than a few times a month, which is fine with me. But I do wonder if he thinks I'm not interested or something? Although I wasn't sure how attracted I was to him in the beginning, I do feel very comfortable with him, and the last time we got together I definitely felt more of an attraction. In fact, I was hoping he would try to kiss me, but he didn't. I'm seeing him again on Monday, so we'll see how that goes.

[Endnote]

How are you feeling now that that last connection to your ex has been dealt with? I felt a great sense of relief when my trip was over, but after that faded I felt a sense of emptiness. That was my last possible connection to my ex for the foreseeable future and that makes me sad. Do you feel similar in your situation? Or does it feel good to have broken that last tie? I'm glad that it went off without too much drama and that you were repaid the money you are owed.

 

 

I definitely feel a sense of relief but just like you described, an emptiness that I still need to overcome. It comes and goes throughout the day, maybe not as bad as it did when all this first happened. It's crazy how much time it takes to move on from these kinds of things. My therapist and I have had some good conversations about this, and when I express my frustration about how long this process is taking, she notes that most of her clients that have to move on from any LTR usually take a year or more. That's a pretty realistic truth, I definitely recall feeling a lot better after my divorce at about the year mark, though it was my ex-wife's death that really solidified the closure I was looking for. So I still need more time, not really a surprise. I'm glad that the ties I had left with my recent ex are gone and honestly I regret holding on to her stuff for that long even if I got my money back. In the future if I find myself with an ex's things I'm gonna give them back as soon as practical. There's no connections we have left and it's very possible that I may never see or hear from her again, that's finally an idea that I'm getting used to.

 

 

Would love to know if your date went well. I think taking things slowly is a smart thing to do. Relationships that start very fast often end in a similar manner. It seems like your feelings aren't the same way they were in the past with this new guy, but I don't think it needs to be that way, slowly getting to know someone seems like it can allow they attraction to build gradually and actually allow you to miss each other and want to spend time together, rather than going all in (and seeing each other every day) from day one. Hope it's going all right.

[TooMuch2Ask]

@nola

 

 

I'm excited to hear how your date goes tonight. I agree with endnote that it's perfectly fine to take things slowly and get to know someone over time. I think before internet dating was a thing this is how people started dating - they were introduced through people or met while they were out and about and had to get to know each other slowly since we didn't have smart phones to constantly be in contact. I remember growing up and having to wait to talk to my boyfriend or my friends because I was at work or out with family etc. So I am a fan of taking things slow and I think that's what feels the best for me now that I've been part of things both ways. Things have finally stepped up with the person I was seeing - probably because I finally started moving on from my ex. More about that below. We are seeing each other fairly often and I'm feeling really good about it. I have to keep reminding myself that it's ok that things were complicated with my ex for a while because at my age some baggage is normal.

 

 

I haven't been on here in a while because I just needed some time to myself and didn't have much extra energy to offer anyone else that I felt would be helpful. It's been several weeks since I talked to my ex other than just in passing and it feels really, really good. He tried to engage in some conversation through text 2 weeks ago after wanting to hang out by saying he wished he was in a better place in life and that he loves me, etc. I responded with I understand and I wish him the best. There was no need to profess my love back or talk about it any further. To be honest, the only reason I responded at all is because I do have to see him at work. I'm not sure I would have even bothered to reply if we didn't work together. So now we speak in passing and it feels really good - I am finally at a place where I am actively moving on (not just talking about moving on, which is what I think I was doing before). He is not meant for me and I have accepted it. I don't crave to hear from him anymore nor do I long for the morsels of attention I was getting. I don't even feel the need to go out of my way to avoid him anymore either - I just feel done. I can't explain it but I haven't felt this way about the situation before so I assume this is progress.

 

 

I am glad you remained NC while on your trip. How are you feeling now that you've been home for a week or so? How is your father? Are you communicating with anyone else from the dating site yet or just marathon guy?

[nolanola]

Feeling pretty low today. I do not think I will hear from marathon guy again. Maybe I am being overly negative.

 

Yesterday, I went to see my therapist in the morning. She and I talked at length about marathon guy. I like spending time with him, but one thing that is frustrating about him is that he tends to leave making actual plans to the last minute. We'll set a day and then I won't hear back from him for the time and place for a while. And a lot of times he defers to me to pick where we go. We had texted a week ago and he had asked to set a day to get together. We came up with Monday but made no other definite details. I heard nothing from him all week, so I texted him on Sunday. I started by just asking how his week was and all that. Then I asked him if we were still on for Monday. He said yes and asked if everything was good on my end. I said yes and that I was just checking because I hadn't talked to him in a while.

 

So that's where it was when I saw my therapist. She suggested that I just come out and ask him to plan something. She also suggested that I try to get more information while we were on the date regarding where things are going. We talked about that quite a bit and came up with a plan for me to text to him. Right as we were about to finish up, I made the comment that it frustrated me that it seemed so hard for me to get a relationship off the ground, but it seems so easy for Mr. B (my ex). I meant that, to my perception (which I rationally understand might not be accurate) he started seeing someone and BAM! has a successful relationship. While for me, I'm struggling to find someone that I hit it off with that wants to date me too.

 

She replied that it's always easier for men and that they get more attractive as they get older, while women lose their social status. That was like a punch in my gut. It might be true, but one of my biggest fears is that no one is going to want me because I'm over 40. I feel like some kind of spinster so much of the time, like the fact that I've never been married is like a big scarlet letter that everyone can see and talks about. I know this isn't extremely rational, but it is a very deep seated fear. So when she said that, I just crumbled. She was trying to kind of soften it, but it really upset me and I left in tears.

 

As I was driving home, I got a text from marathon guy responding to my text from Sunday. He said his week had been crazy and asked if we had decided what we were going to do that evening. I wrote back and said no and asked what he had in mind. He asked what time and I said 7 and then he asked where I wanted to go. So I told him I'd really like him to plan something. I think I said it in a nice but firm way. He said he would and a few hours later suggested a restaurant that I had not been to previously. So I'm thinking things are off to a good start.

 

When I got to the restaurant, I had a feeling that he was not into it from the start. He was dressed pretty casually, in a baseball hat (which, it was a casual place, but still). He had brought me a gift from his trip a few weeks ago, which was nice. It wasn't anything he went out and bought, but it referenced something we talked about and I thought it was nice. He paid for our meal, which maybe I should have offered to split I don't know. I enjoyed myself and we talked for a while. He made a comment about going somewhere else after, but it was getting late and I had to be up early this morning. He talked a little longer and he offered to walk me to my car. He gave me a hug at my car but didn't try to kiss me, even though I lingered a little bit. He made a vague comment about talking again but didn't try to plan anything else.

 

So I have the feeling that that's it for that. I feel pretty down about it. Not about him necessarily, but just about the difficulty of finding someone that I want to be with that wants me too. It's a depressing setback. I think he was not the right guy for me - he told me a story about someone he was arguing with while he was on his trip and I thought he overreacted - but I think I wanted him to be so I could finally be "normal". That sounds pathetic, I'm sure, but it's the honest truth.

 

I felt so sad and hopeless when I got home last night. My brother was trying to tell me to "get back out there, go out on some more dates" but I'm feeling so down about it right now. I still feel pretty sad today. I'm disappointed that I allowed myself to get excited about him and now I feel let down. Maybe I wasn't ready to try to start dating?

[Morello]

I think this issue about women losing 'social status' after 40 is BS. I know plenty of very attractive women of that age, and I don't mean just physically. I think women develop more their personalities during their 30s when things start being less about the looks and more about content. And they don't need to be in very successful careers either, as long as they're happy about their decisions or at least own them.

 

Also, I doubt your ex is having a ball as you think he is. Most couples can look perfect from the outside but lack in depth. Maybe he's fine in a 'shallow' relationship while you are not, therefore it takes longer for you to find someone.

 

I'll go with the usual of saying you need to be happy with yourself first before being happy with someone else. I know it's hard when we're in a bad phase and things are not going well. But that's when we need self-love and being ok and accepting of who we are, with our pros and cons. You can most certainly get in another relationship if you work a bit on your mindset. Just try to be better every day, little by little and chances are you will attrac an even healthier relationship. But you need to love yourself first.

 

This guy is not putting a huge effort and he doesn't sound like a great guy to be honest. He seems very passive about the whole situation. If you're not feeling it, I'd break up with him and claim some power and self-confidence that you know what you're looking for and you may already know it's not him. You seem to value a guy who takes initiative andit doesn't look like he's that kind of person.

[nolanola]

Thanks @Morello. I really appreciate that you took the time to respond and the support. I just feel low about things this morning. I can get in a bit of a downward spiral sometimes before I can stop myself, really emphasizing the negative and going to the worst case scenario really quickly.

 

To be honest, I'm not that upset about this particular guy. I don't think a man has to do ALL the work, but if this is what he's willing to bring to the table when we've known each other for a few months, what is he going to do after 6 months? It's more the idea of getting somewhat excited about the opportunity and then having it not work out.

 

I think perhaps I should take some more time to just be me and to do things that will help me meet new people, but not with the explicit idea of dating. I don't have the first clue how to love myself and this is something I'm still struggling with.

[Beachead]

@nolanola

 

I think your therapist confused her opinion for fact.

 

Yes, women in their 20's have that youthfulness that many men desire we do seek companionship, support and other things as well. The problem with trying to have a relationship with those in their 20's is that they are unsettled. They are just starting their life out, assessing their taste in men, in constant change and redevelopment as they meet new people, sift through new relationships, change jobs and relocate in the process. It's very tough to settle down with people in this category or even trust that they can stick in one relationship.

 

I've found women in your age bracket to be more human with more of a realistic handle in life because they've had hardships which have humbled them in life. I always find it easier to connect with them because of that. I feel like I'm speaking to someone who understands the value of respect and time and that's something I want in a partner.

 

I've also read your posts and have had a chance to see your ideas on here. I can tell, you're an intelligent, self-aware woman. You're a good catch.

 

Ps. Good call dropping marathon man. This man makes plans with you and says nothing all week about them. He is a waste of time.

 

- Beach

[TooMuch2Ask]

@nola

 

I didn’t realize he was leaving all of the planning up to you as well as not making plans to see you ahead of time, etc. I agree that he is clearly not the one for you (I’m not sure for anyone). I don’t think it’s a high expectation for a guy to ask you out and plan the date, especially in the beginning stages. Men are pursuers by nature. I know I said before that taking it slow is nice but this is too slow and too passive, as you said. I thought you were the one wanting to take it this slow and he was accommodating which I thought was a good sign. I see what you’re saying now though and you are right to potentially cut ties.

 

In terms of self love, I think it can start with saying nice things to ourselves. I know it sounds silly but it’s so simple and has been effective for me. Saying something, out loud, to yourself that is nice and kind works. There are other things you can do, I know, but this is something you can do right now and as often as you need to.

 

I whole-heartedly agree with morello about women and dating. I am a MUCH better catch now at 42 than I ever was in my early 20s. I read something the other day that a lot of men in their 30s are dating women a little older because of their confidence and overall demeanor. The guy I’m seeing is 37 and he has said the same thing. I don’t think it’s easier for men to get in relationships bc they are more attractive as they age. I think there are more women than there are men population wise (at least that’s a statistic that I also heard recently). You are NOT a spinster. You have a fantastic career, you’re well educated, you are clearly kind as you use your vacation time for mission trips, you have a supportive family and have a good relationship with them. Have I mentioned to you to read blogs by Evan Marc Katz? I think I did and you said you’ve heard of him but may not have been in a place to read them before. Maybe now is the time. His blogs are really informative and he has a no nonsense approach, which I thoroughly appreciate.

 

The one thing I don’t think you should do is stop dating. In my opinion, you should stay the course for now. Dating does not mean you have to be perfectly complete for someone. It’s ok to be working on things (self love, etc) while also dating.

 

Finally, I would be willing to bet my life savings that mr. B and BB are not in a great relationship. There are issues. Maybe even big ones. There are issues because he has not changed from the person you were dating. Like morello said - he may be content in a shallow relationship. You didn’t want that and Mr. B knew it. Keep your head up. Sending you hugs!!!!

[Endnote]

I'm just going to echo what @Beachead and @TooMuch2Ask said. Women that have been through some **** have a much clearer perspective on what they want and are better communicators about it. Dating is never simple, sometimes the way people act can be predictable but what people want and how they convey it are completely different experiences across ones 20s 30s and 40s. Dating or not dating, I think it's most important to be happy with yourself before really putting yourself out there. It can be tough.

 

When I met my recent ex I was in such a good position emotionally because I knew what was at stake in relationships and so I finally came to grips with the idea that I could exist outside of a relationship. My relationship started to fail because I lost sight of that and instead of focusing on my path I focused too much on my ex's happiness, which at times made me needy and anxious, behaviors that degrade and often destroy a relationship.

 

As for marathon guy, it doesn't seem like an attractive quality to be so passive about going out on a date. I've found as a man that when I decide where and when to go and what to do - the women I've dated have found that very attractive and they wanted to keep dating. Marathon guy may not really be good for anyone if he can't convey that confidence. My 2 cents.

[lovely81]

Hi nolanola,

 

I read your thread and identify, and see a lot of good advice here, esp positive self talk.

 

I think maybe as you said you need to work on that real self love. I think maybe you are not confident in yourself, and then you are attracting people who reinforce that. I see that in the therapy post and in the one about the casual conversation. You are giving time and attention to ppl who are saying things that reinforce a negative self identity (and maybe occasionally they give you tidbits of positive and that's why you are hooked to them). When your life is full of love, enjoyment, passion for yourself and what you love, you will no longer look to other people to give you security, whether it be a douche ex, a therapist, or casual friend. You will feel it from the inside.

 

I did that, self love stuff, it's in a thread. It's what I've had to do after every break up. IDK, I think there's something really there, although it is corny. It seems as soon as I love myself, the men come out of the woodwork, and I don't have time for the ones who don't plan etc. If there are ones who prefer younger or prettier women, I say good for them--they know what they want, and go about my way. It just all sorts itself out.

 

I really like your introspection, I am sure you will meet someone who appreciates you and can enjoy the journey along the way. P.S. I also think it's very normal for you to feel the way you do at this point, given what happened with your ex.