A lesson

[ZA Dater]

ZA, I do think it’s abnormal what you talk about with some of the girls you are friend zoned in. Have you considered ditching these kinds of relationships? These women seem to treat you as a secondary friend to get their needs met. Do they care at all about you?

 

If you ditched them, they will definitely react. You’ll get some experience on feelingwhat it’s like to be in the driving seat of a relationship with a woman (even if it’s a friend zone relationship).

 

 

 

I don't see any upside at doing that. I think they do care and I get a lot a sense of caring from them which is nice because for a whole raft of reasons that been very rare in my life.

 

 

One I spend quite a lot time with because we work on events together and our skills complement each other very nicely. Both drive me forward in some way or other and both make me want to be a better person so I take huge value from that.

[ZA Dater]

Keep those people around such as your favourite lady by the name of K.

 

 

 

You asked a question about my dates and I kind of answered it in my prior post. It just never works from the off, its like I am on one side of the river and they are on the other, there is nothing to connect over at all.

 

 

K for me is probably as good as its ever going to get, I had an idea what I wanted never thinking I'd ever meet that idea, she is the idea I thought I'd never meet. Sure, I wont ever get anywhere with her but I am thankful I have got to meet the idea. Thankful I get reminded how good it can be which takes some of the pain away from the disappointment I feel about dating.

 

 

She becomes my friend/date at events and I don't feel so out of it with everyone else having a partner.

[BluEyeL]

So do tell how slim is attracting overweight? Honestly at least I have the answer now. Essentially one is just stuck with whatever one has, either accept that or have nothing at all. At least I know women are as superficial or more so than guys.

 

You right there is more to life than dating bs.

 

At least I know there is nothing I can do about the matches I get.

Even if you're not fat, you say you're not attractive. Therefore people at your attractiveness level contact you, instead of the ones at the attractiveness level of the male model. Sorry. You don't have access to the model worthy women, either get one that matches you in attractiveness, or give up and also maybe stop complaining?

[Blanco]

Lets have a look at this. Light hearted in which way? I can do that just not often and with very few people. I am more than capable of laughing at myself and I often do this to try lighten up the whole date. Where it falls down is I become severely disinterested when there is no challenge from the other person. For example "you told me that you went to that pizza place, I haven't been yet, what did you think of it" and the answer I get is "its ok".

 

 

Why bother honestly? I suppose that's my problem too?

 

This isn't what I'm talking about. I even stated in a later post that I'm not talking about more boilerplate "How about that weather?" sort of banter.

 

I'm talking about playful, light-hearted banter. I'm a fairly shy person, but love this sort of interaction and immediately find it gives my day a bit of zip afterwards. This isn't possible to engage in with everyone, because there are plenty of people who are too serious/humorless to make it work. But I want to say that I have at least an interaction or two like this with someone nearly every day, and that's as someone who is self-employed and subsequently is not around a ton of people on any given day.

 

This isn't to say I don't meet people who just don't have much oomph to their personality and have nothing particularly interesting to say. However, I got to a point where I realized that some of this perception was a result of my own narrowed vision of what "interesting" is. Maybe you need to expand what you consider to be interesting.

[preraph]

Blanco: "A lot of your posts have that lethal mix of someone who is not confident in himself yet also believes himself to be far superior to many."

 

Elaine: "Seems to be quite common in shy, retiring, socially awkward guys.They know they are not confident nor wildly attractive to women, yet in their head they are entitled to the crème de la crème as they tend to have quite big egos.

OR they pitch way above their league in order to set themselves up to fail, self sabotage is not uncommon, wallowing in pity may be a comfortable place to be.

OR having such high standards means they never really try, hence they never actually fail in their mind. It is too scary to try 100% as there is the risk of failing, so better to blame the world..."

 

 

Entitlement and grandiosity, without anything to back it up. It's a dangerous mix.

Edited December 2, 2018 by preraph

[preraph]

...Girls aren't a math problem

 

^ This. It's how someone without emotions or empathy for anyone else might go about trying to score, but they're oblivious to the main ingredient/requisite.

[ZA Dater]

This isn't what I'm talking about. I even stated in a later post that I'm not talking about more boilerplate "How about that weather?" sort of banter.

 

I'm talking about playful, light-hearted banter. I'm a fairly shy person, but love this sort of interaction and immediately find it gives my day a bit of zip afterwards. This isn't possible to engage in with everyone, because there are plenty of people who are too serious/humorless to make it work. But I want to say that I have at least an interaction or two like this with someone nearly every day, and that's as someone who is self-employed and subsequently is not around a ton of people on any given day.

 

This isn't to say I don't meet people who just don't have much oomph to their personality and have nothing particularly interesting to say. However, I got to a point where I realized that some of this perception was a result of my own narrowed vision of what "interesting" is. Maybe you need to expand what you consider to be interesting.

 

 

I don't know how else to explain what I find interesting but no conversation isn't interesting at all.

 

 

I know what you are talking about and I can actually do that sort of thing if I can summon up the confidence to do it and IF the other person has some humour and is receptive to this. My major is dry humour and unfortunately few people pick that up, those that do find it amusing, the rest it simply goes by unnoticed.

 

 

My standard has been set by the interesting people I have met, everyone else is going to be judged against that which will get me crucified on this forum but its the truth, I don't think anyone doesn't measure people against what they term to be a benchmark.

[ZA Dater]

Blanco: "A lot of your posts have that lethal mix of someone who is not confident in himself yet also believes himself to be far superior to many."

 

 

 

In terms of ability to debate and take people on I am better than many, just the other day I was sitting at a dinner and someone was going on and on about something which was patently incorrect. I corrected politely decided to debate this and thus exposed his lack of knowledge on the subject, needless to say he left with the girl but I left with the knowledge.

 

 

Where you are wrong, I am very confident in what I know, I just choose not to parade it around like some guys, I'd rather sit back and then debate a point.

 

 

I don't think anyone is superior but some are better at some things, I suck at dating but I am great at public speaking. I suck a reading women, I suck at saying the right things to them but I can write reasonably well.

 

 

My point is simple maybe I simply cannot date, maybe I don't have the aptitude for it. I actually said to K the other say when we were talking about it "I don't think I can date" so we settled on me starting a blog "the dating adventures of a misfit".

 

 

Every person walking this earth is good at something, I have never ever met a total useless person.

[ZA Dater]

Even if you're not fat, you say you're not attractive. Therefore people at your attractiveness level contact you, instead of the ones at the attractiveness level of the male model. Sorry. You don't have access to the model worthy women, either get one that matches you in attractiveness, or give up and also maybe stop complaining?

 

 

 

Ok you have dispensed this advice, kindly tell me how many dates with people you didn't find attractive you have been on? Its easy to trot this out but have you actually practiced it?

[Garcon1986]

The inherent issue there with BluEyes, is - how do you propose to change a woman's mind when she thinks somebody is not sexually attractive? I've not yet heard any single piece of actionable advice to do this other than work out harder.

[ZA Dater]

The inherent issue there with BluEyes, is - how do you propose to change a woman's mind when she thinks somebody is not sexually attractive? I've not yet heard any single piece of actionable advice to do this other than work out harder.

 

 

 

I think one has to believe in possibility BUT strip away all the parts about caring and so on an so forth because I ask myself over and over again if this is even a coveted quality because everywhere I look around me suggests it isn't.

 

 

Honestly I think a guy either holds the cards or he doesn't, you need something about you that is interesting to her but I have no idea what that is.

 

 

My problem really is I hide myself away literally and figuratively, I don't really show much of my personality because I have been always rejected that I don't bother showing too much of myself anymore unless I can objectively see I may be in with the chance, which never happens. My stern resting face hardly helps.

 

 

I read somewhere that whoever you date should make you want to be the best version of yourself and I think that's true.

 

 

I can sit and pull myself apart, feel really terrible or I can live in some vicarious world where all is well and yes I don't have anything really but I have the belief I could have someone I really want. Which is all fine and well but as years go on, birthdays come and go, people look at me funny, people ask me why I am single, people mock me for being a virgin, it all starts to feel like the weight of the world and it becomes harder and harder to justify.

 

 

Ultimately we all want to be happy, I am mostly happy but I do long for that dating experience, if for no other reason than to be wanted by someone I want.

[Garcon1986]

you said it yourself, you have a resting bitch face!!! that must go.

[chillii]

Yep , there it is right there.

A kinda serious straightish personality , deep voice, stern face.

 

l got told l can be pretty stern looking and l didn't want that, l'm actually a pussy cat haha. So years ago l started toning my ways and look down and it made a helluva difference with people , women, kids, even dogs haha.

Edited December 3, 2018 by chillii

[Normm]

Correct only heavy women with kids are into me.

 

 

Look at it as an opportunity. At your age, the odds of meeting a woman who wants kids are rather low. So if you meet a woman with kids, it's like instant family and you get to skip the diaper changing years.

 

 

As far as her being heavy, well with some encouragement, dietary and exercise advice on your part you could make a swan out of an ugly duckling.

[Normm]

I am ugly by virtue of the matches I attract, I don't think I am ugly but as I keep being told I must be based on what I attract.

 

That's not what you said before. This was from one of your earlier threads.

 

My issue is my face, its pretty ugly, even I don't like looking at it!

 

So which is it? Can't be both, now can it.

 

From here: https://www.loveshack.org/forums/romantic/dating/530889-pay-date-bad-idea

 

Post #13 - At the bottom.

Edited December 4, 2018 by Normm

[chillii]

ln any case , there's plenty of women around not too crash hot in the face but with hair, make up and clothes, body , man the difference can be massive or even just make it so as it just doesn't matter.

Guys can do all that except we have whiskers for our make up.

Experiment with a bit of man scaping. Oh god , that term sounds so internet doesn't someone brick me but eh , in this case not a bad idea.

[ZA Dater]

Look at it as an opportunity. At your age, the odds of meeting a woman who wants kids are rather low. So if you meet a woman with kids, it's like instant family and you get to skip the diaper changing years.

 

 

As far as her being heavy, well with some encouragement, dietary and exercise advice on your part you could make a swan out of an ugly duckling.

 

 

 

The entire set up does not appeal to me at all. Not even a bit. Though I suspect you were being sarcastic, perhaps I am wrong.

 

 

I wont comment on the second paragraph as I probably have offended enough here already with the views on the topic but suffice to say that also holds zero appeal.

 

 

The best thing for me to do is just be the best me each day and continue to keep busy on things. Have the friend zones I have make the most of that because on reflection they pretty much give me most of what I want. All of those are more interesting to me than going on date after date with people I never really found attractive to begin with but dated because there was nobody I did find attractive interested.

 

 

In other words I'd rather have attractive friends than unattractive dates.

[ZA Dater]

ln any case , there's plenty of women around not too crash hot in the face but with hair, make up and clothes, body , man the difference can be massive or even just make it so as it just doesn't matter.

Guys can do all that except we have whiskers for our make up.

Experiment with a bit of man scaping. Oh god , that term sounds so internet doesn't someone brick me but eh , in this case not a bad idea.

 

 

 

I'll keep working out because I want to not because I feel I need to. I have done the whole "do this to be attractive" thing. "Wear this style to be more attractive".

[NuevoYorko]

Id wager Tinder proves only looks matter.

No. What it demonstrates (but definitely does not "prove" as you only have your own anecdotal experiences to go on) is that an app that depends on the way a person looks in a picture rewards people who look good in pictures.

 

Your posts here do prove that only looks matter to YOU. Thus, one would think that you'd be more understanding about women who are the same.

[ZA Dater]

No. What it demonstrates (but definitely does not "prove" as you only have your own anecdotal experiences to go on) is that an app that depends on the way a person looks in a picture rewards people who look good in pictures.

 

Your posts here do prove that only looks matter to YOU. Thus, one would think that you'd be more understanding about women who are the same.

 

 

 

Well I never started off chasing looks, I used to chase average looks combined with amazing personality, couldn't find that so now I chase great looks.

 

 

However, I ended up chatting to 4 people, all nice looking but there was little to nothing to chat about after a while and I completely lost interest.

[chillii]

I'll keep working out because I want to not because I feel I need to. I have done the whole "do this to be attractive" thing. "Wear this style to be more attractive".

 

 

Actually l was more referring to facial and hair stuff because you don't even like looking at yourself.

l still change my look all the time l look totally different today than only 2mths ago.

[normal person]

Ok you have dispensed this advice, kindly tell me how many dates with people you didn't find attractive you have been on? Its easy to trot this out but have you actually practiced it?

 

Could you not say the same thing to women who don't want to date you?

 

If it's justifiable and understandable for you not to want to date someone for some reason, shouldn't it be similarly justifiable or understandable for someone else to have their own standards?

 

This is the reality of the situation: it seems you can't have what you want, and you don't want what you can (possibly) have. Eventually you'll have to make a decision to compromise or come to a realization about the type of partner you're able to get, make some drastic changes to your life in hopes of being able to get a better one, or accept your fate as it is. As it stands, you appear to have missed the boat on a what you want. So what are you going to do? Are you ever going to take stock and think realistically about the kind of partner who you'd want that would also want you? Because it's probably not a 26 year old doctor/fitness model, at least not right now.

[preraph]

You know, people who think others should think of their needs before they think of themselves and can't understand why they won't are high on the narcissist scale. You seem to not be able to understand that it's not okay for you to criticize others for being shallow when you yourself are shallow. You think they should make exceptions to give you a chance, something you yourself will not do to give those women potentially interested a chance. And so many people have pointed this out, but you just don't seem to get it. You still seem to think it's unfair women you're attracted to who aren't attracted to you won't make the supreme sacrifice and date you anyway even though you would never do the same. You may have a problem accepting that no one owes you any favors. The world does not revolve around your needs. You are the only one who cares about your needs.

 

As everyone has said, it's fine you don't want to date bad enough to date anyone who would have you. In that case, you just hang it up and move on. I guess you don't realize at your age that many elderly people are automatically in that same boat, but they mainly just shrug it off because you know, most of them still like youth's beauty, too, and they can't have it. So they either value companionship in the alternative, which by then they probably value more than beauty anyway, or they opt to just be fine by themselves.

 

I still think there's more going on since despite your ongoing serial complaining on the subject, when it comes down to it, you seem to actually avoid sex anyway and just opt for friendship.

[NuevoYorko]

Well I never started off chasing looks, I used to chase average looks combined with amazing personality, couldn't find that so now I chase great looks.

 

How do you gage "amazing personality" on Tinder?

[ZA Dater]

<SNIP>

 

I still think there's more going on since despite your ongoing serial complaining on the subject, when it comes down to it, you seem to actually avoid sex anyway and just opt for friendship.

 

 

I have become shallow, I didn't start off that way. It was me who went out with people I didn't find physically attractive in the hope I may find their personality attractive, I did this countless times, the vast majority of my dates fell into this category.

 

 

 

Going through those "who wanted a chance" I gave them a chance, I went out with them? I think that's adequate enough chance, the difference here is ones I have chased haven't even gone out with me. Go out with me and reject me that I can accept, I had a chance and didn't make the best of it, perfectly acceptable but dismissing me out of hand, I hardly ever did that with people on OLD, at least I met up with them.

 

 

I challenge convention and will continue to do that and question "why" certain things apparently work the way they do. I will question people who appear to be in relationships with people who, at the first sign of adversity run for the hills and are nowhere to be found, I will continue to question guy who date people but are more interested in themselves than the person they are dating. You can challenge me on this but this is what I am exposed to, you may have had different experiences/view points.

 

 

Why should I date anyone who would have me? Would you do that? What possible upside could there be doing that, I cannot think of one.

 

 

I opt for friendship with people who wont date me, I find those people attractive, they wont date me so by my reckoning I am doing a lot better than dating someone I don't find attractive. I have no experience and sure I would like experience but not experience with someone I don't find attractive, if I am going to do that I might as well pay for experience which morally I wont do. So no, I don't avoid sex, it simply isn't gettable for me. Logically if you cant date you wont find sex now will you?

 

 

Unfortunately its that inexperience which manifests itself in awkwardness, which people don't like and I cant blame them when there are experienced alternatives.

 

 

Look, I am realistic, I probably wont ever get what I want but I'd rather chase that ideal than settle for something I don't want. At least each day I can wake up face the day a dating objective. The thought of waking up and realising I settled isn't an appealing one at all. Nobody is going to preach that realistic possibility isn't impossible and by that I think I can find an average looking person attractive to me with a great personality, that's what I am looking for.

Edited December 8, 2018 by a LoveShack.org Moderator