Sleep incompatibility

[Trail Blazer]

Do you paraphrase what she said and ask clarifying questions to understand what she means better?

Your use of analogies is good.

 

I think if she truly feels that you're not listening to her, then her not bothering to communicate is obviously not going to work either.

 

Not communicating at all is worse, IMO.

She could have come to you and told you she didn't feel heard instead of you pulling it out of her.

She has told me she's been too tired to communicate. She says the stress is her life causes her to get tired, and when she's tired she doesn't express herself well. There's a very narrow window of opportunity to effectively communicate with her for a multitude of reasons.

[Trail Blazer]

She sounds like a nightmare, emotionally and mentally immature.

 

<SNIP>

 

I'm going to try and work it out. In the process I'll be allowing her to also figure out whether we can work or not. I don't aplogize for being forthright and doggedly pushing the need to communicate. She's free to walk at any time she likes. The moment I feel I can't communicate, we're done. Currently it's challenging, but I haven't given up hope yet.

 

She mentioned the tiredness, but we focused on the other issues. Tiredness is an 'assumed knowledge' because it's been spoken about ad nauseam (mild pun intended). Tiredness is all tied in to her lack of communicaion; the more tired she is the less likely she is to communicate because it affects her perceived ability to communicate effectively.

Edited December 21, 2018 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[Trail Blazer]

I’m curious what the two instances of you not listening to her were.

 

The first one was regarding a job interview she went for. She's trying to get back in the workforce. She mentioned how much money has been stressing her out. I've known this for some time. She mentioned it multiple times on this particular occasion. We were chatting on Messenger at the time.

 

So anyway, I tried to focus on other benefits of getting work as well. I told her how she was intelligent and capable (which she genuinely is and will do well in this role which she starts early next year) and had a lot to offer. I told her that the benefits of working will be far reaching and will be more than just about money.

 

She said, "yeah, well all I really care about is money right now, I really need it." After hearing about money 5 times, I used the throwaway line "don't we all (need money)" and followed it up by saying that I was surprised she wasn't also focusing on the other positive aspects of the job. She told me at the time she felt invalidated because I didn't understand just how much she was struggling with money and if I did I wouldn't have said that.

 

When she brought it up as an example, she said I clearly wasn't listening to her and fobbed off her main concern. She told me I didn't need to tell her to focus on other benefits of working because she gets those benefits from volunteer work. She said she just wanted to let off massive relief that her financial issues may finally be eased a bit and just wanted me to listen, not respond with stuff she didn't want to focus on.

 

The second issue was when we spoke a month ago when I noticed things were starting to go a bit wayward. She explained to me how stressful it is being a single mom, having 100 percent responsibility of the life of another person in your hands and having no family support (her family are all in rural Oregon).

 

I used an analogy, that being my mom, who was a single mother for the majority of her life. My dad fled to Cali with a new woman when I was 3, left my mom battling to pay a mortgage and she raised me for the most part by herself. I said, and I quote, "I can't imagine how stressful it might be at times, not to mention the isolation you must feel sometimes."

 

She went quiet and changed the topic at the time. When we discussed that point yesterday, she explained why it bothered her and it made sense why she behaved that way.

 

So, she told me she was very off put by me "simplifying" her situation by trying to find equivalences. She thought I was dismissing her by implying that it's not necessary to feel that way because lots of other people go through the same. She said she didn't want to hear about other people, she just wanted to vent and just needed me to listen, not offer some analogy, equivalence or alternative perspective.

[Trail Blazer]

I personally believe that you're just sexually frustrated. Take sex out of the equation of this relationship. Just for a little while and focus on other aspects of the relationship.

 

You are too focused on the physical part of this relationship and i believe that that is your main problem. If you spread your energy properly and work on all areas of your relationship then i believe you can salvage it.

 

Ask her what she wants and simply try your best to give it to her. If you can't do that then sit back and watch your relationship fall apart.

Uh huh.

 

I have taken sex out of the equation now. I had done so for some time. I can't do any more than I am doing. I need more to work with. Hopefully she'll be less stressed in the new year with Christmas out the way and she can refocus on the relationship which she assures me she still wants to be in. The ball is in her court more than mine moving forward.

[Trail Blazer]

This sounds like a marriage already. This is an infatuation. You are leaving a marriage and immidiately jumping into another relationship. You are starved for affection and sex and because this girl gave you thar at the start, you are completely blinded by it. It does seem like it’s over. She has made her priorities straight.

 

Everyone claims to have a high sex drive, but constant sex does get boring after a while.

You've made some valid points in your first paragraph. Upon reflection I have little to argue against.

 

In saying that though, constant sex has never been something I've gotten bored of, especially with her as she's fantastic in bed when she's in the mood.

[Trail Blazer]

TB, I'm glad that you set a boundary with your girlfriend. I don't buy her excuse because you have clearly been very loving and attentive.

Your girlfriend is moving goalposts because she doesn't know what else to say in order to keep you in her life.

 

Do you think that a relationship should be this difficult at 8 months?

Thanks Betty. I appreciate the support. I'm unsure myself as well. I guess time will tell, but I'll keep working at it for now.

[Cookiesandough]

I’m a bit late, but I wanted to share my thoughts. I agree with the other people who’ve said you guys have way larger incompatibilities than just sleep, like personalities, communication, sex etc. I would be concerned about being in a relationship that I didn’t feel was balanced or my needs were not being met. Not saying that the sleep incompatibly isn’t an issue for some but that it seems like a little bit of a red herring in this case. 9 hours of sleep isn’t a deal. She needs a couple more hours of sleep than you.

 

To answer your question - I think it’s about compromising and prioritizing things that are important to you

 

But like I said I don’t think that’s the main problem. It seems like she isn’t as interested as you are or at the very least her sexual desire doesn’t match yours

Edited December 21, 2018 by Cookiesandough

[elaine567]

It didn't go too well.

You dismissed her money problems with some "fatherly" condescending "advice" about work...

 

Then

 

I am afraid that using your mother as a shining example minimised her problems.

Had you shared that you were finding your work tough atm and she told you HER father worked all his life and HE managed fine... How would you feel? It is NOT helpful.

It is like saying everyone else manages OK, what on earth is wrong with you?

She I guess wants someone on her side, someone to show empathy, someone to go "there, there" - not some judge and jury...

 

I know the sex thing has upset you, but you are allowing your irritation to show through. You may think you are being reasonable but to a woman who is stressed, swamped and bereaved you are being too hard IMO.

[snowcones]

Dude, you've got to have some confidence and believe that you can find someone else. I think that's what you are lacking here. You are desperate for sex and affection and it's making you stay with this woman and try to work out all these supposedly problems. Just dump her, man, and start dating other women.

[Mrs._December]

My view is that we're as good as done. I think the sleep issue is a smokescreen. She's gotten cold feet and is pushing me away.

Of course it's a smokescreen. All she ever DOES is go on and on and on about how 'compromised' she is due to lack of sleep. What a crock.

 

Just wait until she's working a full time job - you think you're hearing constant whining NOW about how tired and stressed she is? Just wait. She seems to think she's a special snowflake and the weight of the world is on her shoulders and that NO ONE has it as bad as she does.

 

My observation: you're way over the top with your constant need to keep her up on that pedestal, way too eager to be at her beck and call, hoping that being her step-n-fetch-it boy will earn you her love.

 

Women generally DON'T RESPECT men who are so darned eager to please all the time because it makes you look weak and desperate. You can argue with me all you like about how 'wrong' I've got it, but I'm not wrong. I'm right on target. You yourself said in one of your posts you're MORE than ready to be taken advantage of and give her anything she wants and I'm telling you that women don't respect that after a while. They become like SHE'S become - they take you for granted and no longer see you as sexually desirable. In her eyes, you've simply become her errand boy and she's taking you for granted.

 

I also see her constant harping about needing money as a subtle hint to you that she needs financial help. She knows you're far too willing to jump for her every time she wants you to, so I wouldn't be surprised at ALL that she's likely thinking you'll be more than happy to help her out financially, as well.

 

Lastly, it's quite apparent that she seems to greatly enjoy her self-induced 24 hour a day, 7 day a week constant pity party about how rough she has it and how no one in the history of womankind has ever been burdened with the amount of responsibility SHE has. Like you OP, my father also ran off when I was young, leaving my mother with 5 kids to support and this was back in the 70's before the age of the internet and being able to pretty much find anyone like you can today. My mother was on her own and did it all by herself and managed to live to talk about it.

 

Things aren't going to magically get better after Christmas. haven't you ever heard that when we first start dating someone, we don't meet the REAL person, we meet their dating diplomat? That's who you met in the first few months - her on her best behavior. Once she knew she had you hooked, the REAL person has now emerged - and she's here for good.

 

What you see is what you get, my friend.

[Mrs._December]

Dude, you've got to have some confidence and believe that you can find someone else. I think that's what you are lacking here. You are desperate for sex and affection and it's making you stay with this woman and try to work out all these supposedly problems. Just dump her, man, and start dating other women.

Quote for TRUTH.

 

I couldn't have said it better myself.

[SevenCity]

<SNIP>

So, she told me she was very off put by me "simplifying" her situation by trying to find equivalences. She thought I was dismissing her by implying that it's not necessary to feel that way because lots of other people go through the same. She said she didn't want to hear about other people, she just wanted to vent and just needed me to listen, not offer some analogy, equivalence or alternative perspective.

 

I have read the entire thread and ’ve noticed two things about you: 1) you care deeply for this woman, 2) you are very logical.

 

The problem with 2 is you are trying to win your arguments with logic and reason. As men, we communicate differently than women. Women want to be heard. They don’t want solutions or advice unless asked. You are correct when you stated the better response would have been “there there”.

 

Instead, you tried to get a judgement in your favor due to lack of evidence as she presented her case. That’s why she shut down on you (again). Regardless how logical you are being, it’s her feelings that matter.

 

In your situation, I would have handled it like this:

1. I’m so sorry you feel this way.

2. Just so I understand, you feel this way because I did x,y, z.

3. I must have not been effectively communicating my intentions, that is something I will work on and I apologize for making you feel this way as it was never my intent.

4. I want to know if I do this in the future so I can communicate more effectively.

 

Furthermore, you have turned many encounters into “we need to talk”. There is no fun for her anymore. Women want fun.

 

I used to be EXACTLY like you (most guys use logic and reason with women and it never works). Changing to accommodate female communication style has greatly improved my outcomes. I used to want to prove myself right. Now, after I’ve had sex with them, I say to myself “That was a more desirable outcome”.

 

That’s not to say this isn’t incredibly frustrating. It still drives me up a walk at times. But, keeping your end state in mind will allow you to push through.

 

I’m also not saying she is an innocent party. She is a terrible communicator and needs to work on that (don’t say that to her, rather show the benefits of good communication through your actions). I personally would have bailed the minute sex stopped as I’m with Happy Lemming on that front. No sex, I’m outty.

 

But, you love her and want to work things out. So stop giving ultimatums, stop trying to be right, and come from a place that will facilitate your desired outcome.

 

The problem is her interest level has dropped significantly so you have your work cut out for you. When a woman is high interest, YOU become the priority. It sounds like it is almost too late but I think you may be able to turn this around.

 

If you are really serious, read “Men are from Mars, women are from Venus”, Corey Wayne’s. “How to be a 3 % Man” and “The 5 love languages”. They will give you great insight into the communication styles of men vs women and what is required to make someone feel loved and understood.

Edited December 22, 2018 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[elaine567]

This woman just lost her grandmother too.

She needs some slack surely. Bereavement is hard, it can turn the most smiley optimistic positive person into a sobbing pessimistic, negative mess...it is serious stuff it is not something you can just turn off, it takes time to heal and put things back into perspective.

 

Even without bereavement, no-one can be that happy clappy, sex goddess 24/7, life rends to get in the way unfortunately.

[Wallysbears]

You aren't listening to her.

 

You are hearing what she is saying but you aren't truly LISTENING.

[Tamfana]

If it was really "misery" for her then wouldn't she have already left me? It's not miserable for either of us, despite some challenges. She clearly doesn't WANT to leave. I do not want to, yet! We're not nearly at that point.

 

She wouldn't necessarily end it if she's exhausted, overwhelmed, depressed, grieving, thinks there's something wrong with her or that she should be trying harder. Many people take all the responsibility or feel guilty when a partner tells them they're wrong or at fault whether they should or not. Just look at how terrible so many people posting here think she is even though she’s never done anything just horrific to you or harmed you. She's just not living up to what you want. Yet a lot of people think she's terrible. Some people fear that kind of judgment and believe they're doing something awful if their partner's upset. We don't know her side.

 

Why don't you want to end it yet? It sounds like you're dissatisfied with her and that's why all the long talks are happening but you don't accept what she tells you during the talks.

 

In the moment I don't know what to say when I tell someone how I feel and that person doesn't believe me or thinks I'm lying or making excuses. Try to imagine someone saying you don't really feel like you say you feel. What do you say to that? When I was younger I would have thought there was something wrong with me but now I'm older I know that if someone doesn't believe me or argues with me when I tell him how I feel, it's never going to work.

 

SevenCity says most men are more logical than women but that’s not my experience.

[Trail Blazer]

It didn't go too well.

You dismissed her money problems with some "fatherly" condescending "advice" about work...

 

Then

 

I am afraid that using your mother as a shining example minimised her problems.

Had you shared that you were finding your work tough atm and she told you HER father worked all his life and HE managed fine... How would you feel? It is NOT helpful.

It is like saying everyone else manages OK, what on earth is wrong with you?

She I guess wants someone on her side, someone to show empathy, someone to go "there, there" - not some judge and jury...

 

I know the sex thing has upset you, but you are allowing your irritation to show through. You may think you are being reasonable but to a woman who is stressed, swamped and bereaved you are being too hard IMO.

 

It doesn't matter how I'd feel if she said something I didn't like, it's how I'd respond that's pertinent here. For the record, she's said some things that I didn't agree with. She's given me her opinion, some I haven't liked, but I didn't sulk and cut off communication or any vital component of the relationship.

 

Nobody in a relationship is ever going to be perfect all of the time. But seriously, realize the over all effort someone is putting in and weight that against the negatives. If you only react to the negatives and take for granted the positives, then how she's behaved is the outcome I'd expect. Hence, I feel like I'm taken for granted at times.

[Trail Blazer]

I have read the entire thread and ’ve noticed two things about you: 1) you care deeply for this woman, 2) you are very logical.

 

<SNIP>

Thanks. There's way too much in your post to address, but know that I've read it all and appreciate it. All I will say is that my ex was a lawyer, so I got very used to defending myself as though I was being cross examined. She was a very logical person, so you'd have to argue logically or she'd tear you to bits. I'm struggling to adjust to this one who's a lot more delicate.

Edited December 22, 2018 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[Trail Blazer]

Dude, you've got to have some confidence and believe that you can find someone else. I think that's what you are lacking here. You are desperate for sex and affection and it's making you stay with this woman and try to work out all these supposedly problems. Just dump her, man, and start dating other women.

 

I know I can find someone else. I have no confidence issues in that regard. I had no problem matching on Tinder and Bumble. If I may say so myself, I'm not the worst looking guy going around. I would not have landed my current girlfriend if I was struggling in that dept as she could have her pick of most guys.

 

I'm desperate to find the right person who can match the level of intense love, effort and devotion that I can offer. I got off the swipey date apps because playing the meat market for casual sex wasn't my thing.

 

The problem I have is that I have fallen in love with the person my girlfriend was for the first 8 months. Until I know for sure that she's gone forever, I can't give up hope and have to give it more time. But I am changing my approach to things. I'm no longer allowing my happiness to be held to ransom by her. I'm doing my own thing, being my own man and she'll have to prove to me that she's a good catch and that I don't want to lose her. I'm not trying to prove that to her any more.

[LoverOfDance]

Op, your communication skills are honestly not the best. Not the best at all.

 

I am currently struggling financially and i have spoken to my bf about my financial issues. If he responded to me the way you responded to your gf, we would honestly have some issues. She HAS A KID who she is raising ALL by herself. I think you have a serious problem when it comes to empathizing. She doesn't care about whatever job she gets right now. All that matters is that it is legal and CAN pay the bills. IT IS ABOUT THE MONEY. She needs it and i can seriously understand. I'm not even a single mother and i completely get it. I just don't understand how you weren't able to empathize with her. It's actually quite upsetting that you were focusing on the wrong thing. When someone is struggling with money AND HAS A KID to look after, whether you like the job or not is completely irrelevant until the financial issues are cleared.

 

I think it is possible that the way you dealt with her complaints about single motherhood made her feel like you were minimizing her problems.

 

Op, you seriously need to learn how to communicate better. A very important part of communication is LISTENING WELL and when you are in a relationship, you can't just listen, you have to empathize as well. You have been sympathizing not EMPATHIZING.

[Trail Blazer]

You aren't listening to her.

 

You are hearing what she is saying but you aren't truly LISTENING.

 

So I'm not perfect. But is anyone? Does what I've done for her, all the effort I've put in get undermined by a difference of opinion on a couple of occasions? People who dismiss all the good things and ostracize others for thier failings are not people with balanced approaches. I dare say that anyone with a balanced approach would say that all the good things ive done outweigh the negatives, and that I'd deserve a bit of slack. It would appear not in some people's views.

[snowcones]

The problem I have is that I have fallen in love with the person my girlfriend was for the first 8 months. Until I know for sure that she's gone forever, I can't give up hope and have to give it more time. But I am changing my approach to things. I'm no longer allowing my happiness to be held to ransom by her. I'm doing my own thing, being my own man and she'll have to prove to me that she's a good catch and that I don't want to lose her. I'm not trying to prove that to her any more.

 

 

With all due respect, you said that when you first started this thread, and then you got desperate for her attention (or answers) and started asking her to talk about all this. And then you let her screw with your head with all of her excuses that you don't even agree with or understand. I suspect that you will have trouble playing it cool with her like you say you will. Do you have a time limit that you've put on this? Like 2 more months, 6 more months, what? I think it's wise to put a time limit on it. I have a friend, I recall when he started complaining about his woman not acting right. It's been 2 years and he's still complaining about the same things.

[Wallysbears]

So I'm not perfect. But is anyone? Does what I've done for her, all the effort I've put in get undermined by a difference of opinion on a couple of occasions? People who dismiss all the good things and ostracize others for thier failings are not people with balanced approaches. I dare say that anyone with a balanced approach would say that all the good things ive done outweigh the negatives, and that I'd deserve a bit of slack. It would appear not in some people's views.

 

I'm not criticizing with that remark. I'm truly not. This is something that many men do by mistake.

 

You *think* you know what she is saying...but you're missing the point.

 

I can't really explain it, but I can recognize it.

[Trail Blazer]

She wouldn't necessarily end it if she's exhausted, overwhelmed, depressed, grieving, thinks there's something wrong with her or that she should be trying harder. Many people take all the responsibility or feel guilty when a partner tells them they're wrong or at fault whether they should or not. <SNIP>

 

Why don't I want to end it yet? Many reasons. I've covered most of my reasons throughout my postings. I'll list a few;

 

- I'm in love with the person she WAS but haven't given up hope that she'll return

 

- I'm insanely attracted to her in a physical sense and I'm not ready to release her back into the world for another man to court her

 

- my mom and daughter love her and it will negatively affect my daughter if she can't see her or her son anymore

 

- my ex has finally accepted her after a lot of effort and battle with her over introducing my daughter to my girlfriend - if it ends I won't hear the end of it or the "I told you so's" from her

 

- I'm too stubborn to admit that I may have made a big mistake and that people who critcized me about my "rebound relationship" might actually be correct

 

I'm simply not ready to yet...

Edited December 22, 2018 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[BettyDraper]

Sure, I appreciate my girlfriend's intelligence and her love of reading. We often trade books back and forth.

 

She is a genuinely good person and nice company. We get along great. We travel/adventure well together. She does call me cheap (on a regular basis) and I ignore her. Its almost humorous at this point.

 

I agree with the old adage that there is a lid for every pot.

 

I'd also like to agree with your post that after 8 months, OP's relationship should not be this hard.

 

That's great! It sounds like you simply have a high sex drive so sex is extremely important to you. There is nothing wrong with that. If my husband and I go more than two days without sex, I find myself becoming rather irritable and unhappy because I enjoy our intimate times.

 

My husband and I are both bookworms as well. When we were dating, I remember feeling very happy when I saw some authors that I loved on his bookshelf.

 

Relationships involve some level of work but there should be more happy times than unhappy ones.

[BettyDraper]

Why don't I want to end it yet? Many reasons. I've covered most of my reasons throughout my postings. <SNIP>

 

I don't see how being obstinate is helpful in this situation. Proving others wrong is a foolish reason to stay with someone. I don't understand how saving face should be a factor in choosing to stay with a partner unless you are married and more invested in many ways. Wanting to look good in the eyes of others is a horribly misguided reason to stay in a relationship. The danger is that you could end up wasting YEARS with the wrong woman just because you don't want to look bad. Didn't you just come out of a marriage that lasted too long?

 

The reason why you are treating your girlfriend like a wife is you have introduced your children and family into this relationship far too soon. That was a sign of the desperation I keep mentioning. Now you feel that you must stay with your girlfriend because you have invested far too much for this early stage. It's so sad.

 

Based on what you have shared recently, I don't see a lot of love in your relationship anymore. I see desperate clinging and ridiculous reasons to stay. TB, you have great intentions but you need to work on your intense fear of being alone.

Edited December 22, 2018 by a LoveShack.org Moderator