Opinions about infidelity

[DKT3]

As in many things, people over simplify.

 

My friend had a full blown affair on her husband... emotional and sexual... she fell in love and nearly left her BS.

 

Does that make her a heartless lying monster?

 

Because he husband was a non functioning alcoholic who was addicted to porn and couldn’t even hold a job. He didn’t give a **** about her or the kids.

 

Suddenly you see a grey area. It’s not as simple as she is a bad person and he’s innocent. The relationship itself had become toxic and both parties were sabotaging it.

 

They worked through it. He’s forgiven her for the affair but she struggles to forgive him for the abuse and addiction. And ultimately will never be happy with him but is doing ‘what’s right’...

 

I know other couples who addressed the issues head on that weakened the marital bond and moved forward with no regrets.

 

But I do think when the affair ends or is found out both parties tend to act on insecurities and fear of abandonment. Instead of seeing the marriage clearly they may desperately cling to the sinking ship without the real tools or self awareness to change course.

 

 

Her affair fixed everything, RIGHT?

 

yeah, no. The relationship was dysfunctional, her cheating only added to that. Having the ability to justify her actions doesn't make it a grey area. It only shows an unhealthy coping mechanism. You dont solve money issues by robbing a bank.

[Woggle]

How other deal with it is their business but it is a dealbreaker to me. It would completely destroy and without trust you don't have much of a relationship.

[DKT3]

Let’s just say there are people giving advice that are still hurt from their experiance, looking at their experiance with 20/20 vision, and assuming everyone’s circumstances are the same as theirs.

 

One might also note that most the victim stories are from this perfect spouse that got **** on. People fail to realize there are two sides to the story and some of these cheaters were checking out of a bad marriage and the victim accounts are only one side of the story.

.

 

Anyone that has ever been in a relationship they had issues in that relationship. Not everyone cheats, not even most. So cheating is an individual's problem not a relationship problem, not in the sense that it caused the cheating.

Edited December 6, 2018 by DKT3

[zouz71]

How other deal with it is their business but it is a dealbreaker to me. It would completely destroy and without trust you don't have much of a relationship.

 

 

 

 

Human are not angels , the do mistakes.

 

 

if spouses can love each other in the same way they love theiir children then they really love each other as they described in vows , otherwise the vows and untill seperated by death is a lie , it should be enhanced to satte " Until replaceable "...

 

 

 

 

So we need to choose , either vows are BS and we are replaceable , or we as human make mistakes and it is normal to learn from those mistakes.

[Woggle]

Human are not angels , the do mistakes.

 

 

if spouses can love each other in the same way they love theiir children then they really love each other as they described in vows , otherwise the vows and untill seperated by death is a lie , it should be enhanced to satte " Until replaceable "...

 

 

 

 

So we need to choose , either vows are BS and we are replaceable , or we as human make mistakes and it is normal to learn from those mistakes.

 

Fidelity is part of that contract and if it is broken then the betrayed party has every right to terminate it.

[salparadise]

As a woman, i would honestly be more hurt if my husband truly had a deep emotional connection with another woman, than if there were a one-night stand.

 

Everyone will react based on their own predispositions, beliefs, circumstances etc., but as long as we're dealing in hypotheticals and generalities...

 

Women tend to feel more threatened by an emotional affair because that is more likely to result in abandonment of her and the kids. Men, on the other hand, have a different type of concern––physical infidelity is seen as the ultimate betrayal because it may result in his spouse being impregnated. Nothing is worse for a man than finding out that your kids aren't actually yours.

 

This is the reason behind the virtuous woman imperative across time and cultures. If a man secretly sneaks in a few extras for some other man to raise it has little impact on his own family, esp. if not discovered. But no one ever wants to have such doubts about their own.

[zouz71]

Fidelity is part of that contract and if it is broken then the betrayed party has every right to terminate it.

 

I am not defending cheating ,

So many other things too e also part of it ; such as bearing financial drought is nowadays a key issue among spouses.

 

So many friends of mine got a divorce because of it , they built a family based on partnership , suddenly when things go bad a bit financially they leave because they don't want to bare costs , leaving the partner in a more complex situation than he/she was in .

[carhill]

Yeah the topic was comparing the emotions and treatment of an offspring versus a spouse when it comes to forgiveness and/or resentment of a betrayal. Kids, in my case, long adults, can do horrible things to their parents, abuse, betrayal of trust, theft, lying, on and on.

 

I saw an example of it yesterday when the lady across the way knocked on my door to see if I was alive. Her son, the one who shot her car, whose foot she ran over with her car later, and who two deputies dragged off to jail, was standing out at the road looking on. She forgave him for his violence, apparently, and they're back living together. He's not 'a kid', probably late 20's at least. She's not much younger than myself. No husband in sight. Probably got rid of him

 

A MW who's dealing with the same thing recently opined that mothers (her) will always be mothers and take care of their kids where fathers (her H) are more tough love let them crash and burn and destroy themselves, especially with sons. I see her forgiving the misdeeds of her sons far more often than those of her H and, yeah, there have been A's on both sides in the three decades plus of being M. Myself, I couldn't deal with things in that way but perhaps I'm outlier since a lot of people do. Thank goodness many/most people have tougher hides. The constant undercurrent of resentment/tit for tat would just eat me up.

 

What I've noticed after a decade around here is anti-infidelity factions and pro-infidelity factions label people. Myself, I'm for long-term, monogamous unions of people who love each other, and support that in real life but accept that people can and do engage in non-monogamous relations. I also notice it's the women who more readily will admit their indiscretions. Men deny, deny, deny. They block it out, put it in a box and treat it like it doesn't exist. I can't imagine they're all pure as the driven snow married to harlots. Nuh, uh.

 

Round and round we go.

[standtall]

Ok so the "dealbreaker" is essentially the same - emotional connection.

But what if she was just in an EA, no sex, is that a dealbreaker for you?

Or is a case of degree perhaps?

EA+ PA = huge emotional connection implied.

EA alone = not so much of an emotional connection implied.

 

Not really, but if it continued, most likely my marriage would be dead at that point. I supposed it would have to be a sustained EA. That is why I am emotionally supportive of my wife at all times....she has no need to seek out other men to "borrow an ear". That's why my wife keeps me satisfied physically as well....she gets the emotional, I get the physical. Ying yang kinda thing

 

BTW, there are no absolutes with human behavior, as I'm sure there are many cheating women that like sex, men seeking emotional support form other women...etc, this is just my take.

[stillafool]

It's becoming a trend on LS/Social media , that when a person is betrayed by a spouse , people jumps directly to catastrophic advises .

 

 

 

A trend? How long have you been on LS?

[Mr. Lucky]

So we need to choose , either vows are BS and we are replaceable , or we as human make mistakes and it is normal to learn from those mistakes.

 

Then why be faithful if your vows give you an automatic "get out of jail free" card?

 

There are consequences to our actions. And, as fallible human beings, understanding those consequences exist keeps us on track in moments of weakness or temptation.

 

All in all, a pretty good system...

 

Mr. Lucky

[Lotus_Luna]

Her affair fixed everything, RIGHT?

 

yeah, no. The relationship was dysfunctional, her cheating only added to that. Having the ability to justify her actions doesn't make it a grey area. It only shows an unhealthy coping mechanism. You dont solve money issues by robbing a bank.

 

Actually he finally got sober, started addressing his sexual abuse and they fought together to move the relationship into a healthier place.

 

But ultimately they still have a toxic dynamic as he pulls away and she clings

 

I don’t envy their dynamic at allll

[Kitty Tantrum]

Although infidelity isn't necessarily a dealbreaker for me, I disagree with the notion of loving spouses like children.

 

My ex-husband wanted me to love him as though he were my son. In other words, he wanted me to love him unconditionally and keep him and take care of him no matter how selfish and immature his behavior was, and no matter how costly it was for me to keep giving and giving, and him always taking.

 

That's what mothers are for. Not wives. If you're not ready to hold up your end of the bargain in an adult partnership... go back to your mommy.

 

I'm willing to forgive a spouse for various indiscretions/shortcomings only so long as the marriage is otherwise functional and they're pulling their weight and meeting their obligations. Marriage is a two-way street.

 

Parenthood is a one-way street. I chose to bring my children into the world as defenseless suckling infants. I am responsible for their existence. My children do not and will not ever have the same sorts of obligations to me as I have to them.

 

Unconditional love and forgiveness in marriage is an unattainable fantasy. Marriage is a partnership. It's all about conditions.

[YoungCandy]

Although infidelity isn't necessarily a dealbreaker for me, I disagree with the notion of loving spouses like children.

 

My ex-husband wanted me to love him as though he were my son. In other words, he wanted me to love him unconditionally and keep him and take care of him no matter how selfish and immature his behavior was, and no matter how costly it was for me to keep giving and giving, and him always taking.

 

That's what mothers are for. Not wives. If you're not ready to hold up your end of the bargain in an adult partnership... go back to your mommy.

 

I'm willing to forgive a spouse for various indiscretions/shortcomings only so long as the marriage is otherwise functional and they're pulling their weight and meeting their obligations. Marriage is a two-way street.

 

Parenthood is a one-way street. I chose to bring my children into the world as defenseless suckling infants. I am responsible for their existence. My children do not and will not ever have the same sorts of obligations to me as I have to them.

 

Unconditional love and forgiveness in marriage is an unattainable fantasy. Marriage is a partnership. It's all about conditions.

 

Well said on the difference between love for children and marriage partner. Coming out as a man, however I would tell you how difficult does it feel when I only get the attention and care from wife if I am "meeting the obligations" in the marriage, especially if you compare it to the relationship before having children. This is often what caused the affairs in the first place. Marriage is partnership but it is also built on the foundation of love. Without love, understanding and forgiveness it does not work.

[DKT3]

Although infidelity isn't necessarily a dealbreaker for me, I disagree with the notion of loving spouses like children.

 

My ex-husband wanted me to love him as though he were my son. In other words, he wanted me to love him unconditionally and keep him and take care of him no matter how selfish and immature his behavior was, and no matter how costly it was for me to keep giving and giving, and him always taking.

 

That's what mothers are for. Not wives. If you're not ready to hold up your end of the bargain in an adult partnership... go back to your mommy.

 

I'm willing to forgive a spouse for various indiscretions/shortcomings only so long as the marriage is otherwise functional and they're pulling their weight and meeting their obligations. Marriage is a two-way street.

 

Parenthood is a one-way street. I chose to bring my children into the world as defenseless suckling infants. I am responsible for their existence. My children do not and will not ever have the same sorts of obligations to me as I have to them.

 

Unconditional love and forgiveness in marriage is an unattainable fantasy. Marriage is a partnership. It's all about conditions.

 

Absolutely, I've been saying unconditional love is for parents since I started posting here. The more balanced the relationship the better the prospects.

 

Current tends, especially from reading here, is people tend to think treatment received is more important than treatment given.

[Woggle]

A great marriage should be like a great friendship. You have a deep bond and will do almost anything for each other but will cut them off if they mistreat or betray you.

[amaysngrace]

I don’t know if my exH cheated on me or not. He most likely did since some nights he didn’t come home at all but I was glad for those nights. It meant he wasn’t near me.

 

He never had a solid sense of right from wrong. Sometimes he’d act like such an ass that I’d explain to whoever he was being horrible to that I wasn’t responsible for his behavior when they’d look my way. I’d apologize for how he was but then state that I only married him, I didn’t raise him.

 

Spouses aren’t your children. I’m having a hard time seeing why you’d not expect more from the adult you married than you would from your eight year old child or why you should tolerate each of their screw ups in the same way

 

...but that’s just me.

 

ETA I just saw you said adult child. Well that’s easy. You forgive your child more easily because as the parent you aren’t the one being wronged by their cheating.

Edited December 7, 2018 by amaysngrace

[Kitty Tantrum]

Well said on the difference between love for children and marriage partner. Coming out as a man, however I would tell you how difficult does it feel when I only get the attention and care from wife if I am "meeting the obligations" in the marriage, especially if you compare it to the relationship before having children. This is often what caused the affairs in the first place. Marriage is partnership but it is also built on the foundation of love. Without love, understanding and forgiveness it does not work.

 

To clarify, i don't think it's ever right to withhold affection, attention, or care in a marriage. Any offense egregious enough to warrant that in my book is worth ending the marriage, and promptly. I could never stay in a marriage without care and affection. What I'm saying is that the amount (and sorts) of "bad" behavior I'm willing to tolerate in a husband before making the decision to end the marriage has a lot to do with how much he brings to the table in the various facets of our relationship and whether he takes good care of me.

 

The same is not true of my children because my relationship with them is different. They are not my partners. It would take a lot more for me to cut either of my children out of my life than any other living person. Period.

[WasOtherWoman]

. That is why I am emotionally supportive of my wife at all times....she has no need to seek out other men to "borrow an ear". That's why my wife keeps me satisfied physically as well....she gets the emotional, I get the physical. Ying yang kinda thing

 

 

Yep, this exactly. Every single person in a relationship should understand this simple concept... it goes a long way.

 

As my husband is fond of saying (in jest... but there is so much truth) "Men are simple creatures. We want food, sleep and sex. Any more than that and you are overthinking us."

[FMW]

Staying or leaving is a very difficult and personal decision. You never really know until you face it what you will do.

 

Life has taught me to never say never, but I don't see how I at this point in my life could possibly stay with someone who I knew was cheating on me.

 

I stayed with my unfaithful xH much longer than I should have. I felt stunned and betrayed and stupid. It just did more damage to my self-esteem and made it that much harder to move on once I finally said enough was enough.

 

Probably because of that damage, I was also on the other side as well and had an affair with a MM. Having the insight of how a cheating spouse can be with an AP, the seemingly emotional and loving things that are done and said, I think now would make it impossible for me to even stay a moment after finding out someone was cheating on me.

[DKT3]

Staying or leaving is a very difficult and personal decision. You never really know until you face it what you will do.

 

Life has taught me to never say never, but I don't see how I at this point in my life could possibly stay with someone who I knew was cheating on me.

 

I stayed with my unfaithful xH much longer than I should have. I felt stunned and betrayed and stupid. It just did more damage to my self-esteem and made it that much harder to move on once I finally said enough was enough.

 

Probably because of that damage, I was also on the other side as well and had an affair with a MM. Having the insight of how a cheating spouse can be with an AP, the seemingly emotional and loving things that are done and said, I think now would make it impossible for me to even stay a moment after finding out someone was cheating on me.

 

Having been on the receiving end how can you justify doing that to another woman?

 

People in affairs use what they need to to maintain the affair. Not all said and done is genuine.

 

I personally felt like I had no option to stay, in that situation. I agree, if it ever happened again I would simply kiss her on the forehead and say good luck in life and be done with it and her.

[Mr. Lucky]

Probably because of that damage, I was also on the other side as well and had an affair with a MM.

 

Would you have accepted that type of rationalization had it come from your exH ?

 

Mr. Lucky

[FMW]

My xH and I are still in fairly regular contact. I don't hate him or think he's a horrible person for being unfaithful to me, he discussed his thoughts with me while we were going through the divorce (sometimes in a purposely mean way because I was the one who asked for the divorce).

 

So to keep focused on the question the OP posed, I HAVE forgiven my xH for his infidelity. I just couldn't stay married to him. His being unfaithful was a symptom of something wrong in our relationship (and not just with him) that couldn't be fixed. I think that's often the case, but sometimes it's hard to accept.

Edited December 7, 2018 by Finding my way

[pepperbird]

It's becoming a trend on LS/Social media , that when a person is betrayed by a spouse , people jumps directly to catastrophic advises .

 

 

I believe that when a woman /man treats / forgive each other in the same way they treat their adult SOn or daughter , then resentment is much less.

 

 

 

 

Am I the only person feeling that ?

 

 

I take it you have cheated on your spouse.

 

 

I will tell you the same thing that I ahve told others. You had allt he time int he world to make your choices to be unfaithful, to cope with your feelings and to deal with the aftermath.

 

 

your bs was given none of that luxury. This was all dumped on her, and the one person she should be able to trust to be in her corner is gone. Kaput.

Add to this that she may well be trusting her own judgement, wondering why she didn't see it and why she trusted you.

 

I believe one of the responses to you mentioned it can take years for a couple to move past infidelity, and that's very true.My spouse cheated about 10 years ago, and while we are mostly through it, there are times it still comes up, like if we are watching a show and someone is cheating. It can bring it back,and while it's muted, it's still painful.

[pepperbird]

I feel The same way. I personally think it’s the same with humans, as a species dealing with any tough situation...generally, there’s those that are mentally & emotionally stronger than others.

 

I’ve personally have never seen a person that was “truly” mentally & emotionally strong before they were cheated on, allow cheating to make them permanently jaded. Initial reaction is different IMO vs once someone has a chance to process. The only people I’ve seen extremely scarred from cheating (whether they stayed or not) are those that didn’t exactly have high self esteem & or weren’t exactly mentally & or emotional strong to begin.

 

 

Madam,

I'll start right off by apologizing to you if I come off as really angry to you. That's not my intention, even if it sounds like it is.

 

 

he we go.

 

 

 

This kind of response really ticks me off. Before my spouse cheated, |I had a decent self esteem, I was extremely mentally tough and was very careful after years of being hurt ( and an abusive relationship to boot) about ever letting anyone in.

 

For whatever reason, I did with him, and when he cheated, that destroyed part of me that will never come back.

 

 

I trust him more than anyone else, but it will never be what it was. I have accepted that. Life goes on, and while I love him to death, it will never be the same.