20 years gone? [Updated Feb 25]

[Marc878]

I think your problem is you are in denial of where you are and grasping at every breadcrumb of hope. Stop already!!!

 

She’s told you and shown you what you need to know.

 

Pull back and quit asking her what she wants. All you’re doing is putting yourself in a worse position.

 

If you chase they always move farther away.

 

Better wake up and stop it

[Blind-Sided]

To Both:

 

 

I'm not staying in it for finances, but at this point, I think the only reason "Divorce" hasn't come out of her mouth is because she knows she can't. I'm trying to stay in it because I love my family.

 

 

I know I should stop chasing, but it's easier to say it than to do it. And no... I've told her I will not stay in a loveless marriage since that does nothing other than hurt the people in it.

 

 

One more anecdotal thing... she actually said... "I don't want to be rejected by your family." I told her at this point, they feel like they lost a daughter. (MY family cares, and has done WAY more for her than her own) I told her that bridge has already been burnt, unless I say otherwise. (and there is true remorse, and rebuilding)

 

 

As always... thanks for listening. It helps when I'm alone on these trips.

[Marc878]

Chasing has the opposite affect that you need/want and normally drives them farther away but yet you continue.

 

This part is on you. You have zero control over her. Control yourself.

 

You are exhibiting weak behavior which is unnattracive.

 

If you keep yourself out of the drama you will get some clarity. Fear is a liar that will keep you bound.

 

Your wife is a want but you don't need her.

 

You'll either wake up or extend your stay in limbo. That's your choice

[Marc878]

To Both:

 

 

I'm not staying in it for finances, but at this point, I think the only reason "Divorce" hasn't come out of her mouth is because she knows she can't. I'm trying to stay in it because I love my family.

 

 

I know I should stop chasing, but it's easier to say it than to do it. And no... I've told her I will not stay in a loveless marriage since that does nothing other than hurt the people in it.

 

 

One more anecdotal thing... she actually said... "I don't want to be rejected by your family." I told her at this point, they feel like they lost a daughter. (MY family cares, and has done WAY more for her than her own) I told her that bridge has already been burnt, unless I say otherwise. (and there is true remorse, and rebuilding)

 

 

As always... thanks for listening. It helps when I'm alone on these trips.

 

Of course she doesn't want you but does want everything that's attached to you.

Drop the hopium pipe or continue to linger where you are.

[vla1120]

1. I was closer to my husband's family than my own. They were my family for 32 years. After the divorce, I stayed close to them for awhile. Then, my husband asked me to step aside because with me in the picture, they would never accept his new girlfriend. Out of respect for him, I stepped aside. His family became angry with me and now I have no relationship with them (but they do get along well with his girlfriend, now.) Honestly, one of my BIGGEST regrets about the divorce is having lost the only family I really had for 32 years.

 

2. It sounds like your wife will flounder financially on her own (and you should let her.)

 

While these are not reasons for you to stay in a loveless marriage, they ARE reasons for her to get her act together and try to make your marriage work. She has MUCH more to lose than she realizes right now.

[chryssy83]

You can’t try hard enough to make up for her lack of effort. You need to do the 180. I have had guys to come back (including my husband once after he moved out and was probably with someone else) on more than one occasion using those strategies. How can she miss the things she needs from you if she’s always got them? And when she’s asking for space and you’re trying harder she gets to take what she wants from you but still blame you for her unhappiness because you don’t even do the one thing she asked for!

 

I can’t say it will work for the long haul because I’m getting a divorce and frankly your situation sounds pretty hopeless to me. And to be completely and brutally honest the way you write about the things you say to her...I would be begging you for space too.

 

What you have been doing hasn’t worked, it’s time to switch things up. Tell her you still want it to work but something has to give and so it’s going to be you. You can’t stay in this push-pull cycle anymore but you’re happy to talk when she’s ready. And then live your freaking life.

 

I don’t remember if you’re in IC but if not, go there. Talk about how to improve yourself and it will either help you move on or make you more attractive to her. But please don’t keep doing what you’re doing, it’s not going to work.

[Blind-Sided]

.....................

Drop the hopium pipe or continue to linger where you are.

 

 

Thanks... I needed the laugh and kick to the head. (seriously, good comment) Just got out of a meeting with a controller, and it was all numbers and accounts.

 

1. ................... Honestly, one of my BIGGEST regrets about the divorce is having lost the only family I really had for 32 years.

 

 

In this case... my mom is crushed, and my dad is pissed. So, they won't even respond to her if she wants to talk about personal things. She was trying to reason with my dad on her position, but he finally got pissed and told her she should be talking with me about things.

 

 

While these are not reasons for you to stay in a loveless marriage, they ARE reasons for her to get her act together and try to make your marriage work. She has MUCH more to lose than she realizes right now.

 

 

WOW... I know this doesn't change things at my house... but it's good to know that I'm not alone on my thoughts.

[Blind-Sided]

You can’t try hard enough to make up for her lack of effort. You need to do the 180. I have had guys to come back (including my husband once after he moved out and was probably with someone else) on more than one occasion using those strategies. How can she miss the things she needs from you if she’s always got them? And when she’s asking for space and you’re trying harder she gets to take what she wants from you but still blame you for her unhappiness because you don’t even do the one thing she asked for!

 

 

I understand. But here's the thing... she has been asking for different things during this... but she doesn't tell me how she wants that to happen. Or she gets mad when it does happen. So, in the case of saying she wants time and space... she wasn't taking it herself. I offered a bunch of ways that could happen, (private vacation, weekend with her mom) and she rejected all of it. At this point the only thing that I didn't offer was for me to leave... but since I wasn't the person who had the issue... I would not have done that. (but she didn't ask me to leave either)

 

 

Oh... and with me taking my biz trips... she says that's not space either because she still has to take care of everything. (but still rejects a vacation)

 

 

 

 

I can’t say it will work for the long haul because I’m getting a divorce and frankly your situation sounds pretty hopeless to me. And to be completely and brutally honest the way you write about the things you say to her...I would be begging you for space too.

 

 

I feel that it's become hopeless also. I guess the problem is... everyone reads things with different intent, but yes... to a point, I am a VERY honest person. But if she was more honest with me, and herself... we wouldn't be in this situation.

 

 

For example: She said "I needed you to change more diapers in the middle of the night, 12 years ago for our oldest." My response was... "You should have said something, or kicked me in bed and told me to take care of it." If the tables were turned, I would have said something, and not let it fester for that long.

 

..........

 

I don’t remember if you’re in IC but if not, go there. Talk about how to improve yourself and it will either help you move on or make you more attractive to her. But please don’t keep doing what you’re doing, it’s not going to work.

 

 

 

I'm not in counseling, but at this point, I don't think I need it. I have a few friends who now know what is going on, and my family is supportive. Right now I'm just battling the heart ache i'm feeling... and no one is going to change that other than father time.

 

 

I told her to set up MC, but she doesn't want to do that, because she is scared that she is just going to be told she is wrong. But because of that... and the way she has talked from the start... I feel she is just in a "cut off your nose to spite your face" situation. She's mad at the past (that was never talked about in the past) and just wants to be done because she has made the choice. I think her mom (who never liked me) her counselor, and the toxic friend is pushing her to keep on that track.

 

 

 

 

I agree something has to change, and as above... I think she will find out quickly that it will be hard without me. But I'm also going to tell her that if it get's to the point where the house goes on the market... it will be a forever situation. Basically, if I loose everything I worked for, for the past 20 years, because of her lack of honesty... I will not put myself back though this.

 

 

Thanks for listening.

[DKT3]

I know you've been resisting the idea that she is having an affair but the more you post the more obvious it is.

 

She complains about not getting something then gets upset when she does..why? In her mind not getting it is how she justified cheating, getting it makes her angry because it takes away her justification.

 

Honestly what your willing to believe at this point is irrelevant, but she seems done and you wont accept it. You cant force her to want you, time to sack up and move on, you are accomplishing nothing since what, November December?

[David33]

I'm ending a 23 year marriage and it took me a long time to finally take action too. It can be tough to see past the little things that seem encouraging and diminish the big things that really matter. I don't have specific advice other than to know what you want and go after it. At some point you may decide you're done. I wish you the best.

[mark clemson]

All of the below is just my personal opinion FWIW:

 

So, if I read all the above correctly, she’s “just unhappy” - unhappy enough to leave but won’t really express why. She’s made you out to be something of a monster, but you’re not, and the usual reasons (such as OM) don’t seem to apply. It’s probably something, though.

 

Time to start thinking outside the box. The good news, sort of, appears to be that she’s in no hurry to leave so you have time to try to analyze this further, assuming you care to.

 

Possibly there is some major unfulfilled life issue driving this. Some possibilities (and I’ve no intent to offend you here, I’m just trying to brainstorm/think outside the box):

 

 

• She’s lesbian, trans, or bi, and hasn’t dealt with it up to now due to societal pressures but has realized that “life is short” and wishes to explore this side of her
  
• She’s has (heavy) BDSM desires and hasn’t dealt with it up to now due to societal pressures but has realized that “life is short” and wishes to explore this side of her; she feels she can’t express it to you as your marriage is founded on more vanilla practices (I’m assuming this, of course I could be wrong)
  
• She has some unfulfilled goal or life ambition and feels she can’t attain it in the marriage
  

Something along these lines is one possible cause.

 

 

Possibly she has (clinical) depression or is developing a personality issue that is distorting her perceptions of you and the marriage.

 

Per some suggestions above, possibly be she has feelings for an OM but hasn't acted on them; so you're not aware of who it is or that the change is in progress.

 

Another poster mentioned drug addiction. This can be hard to spot and opioid addiction is rampant. This is another possibility you might try to look into (carefully).

 

Another angle: I get the sense from your posts that you are the dominant partner in your marriage. Many people (women and men) look for a dominant partner – it’s a good, if somewhat parasitic, strategy as it makes getting one’s needs met and tends to reduce conflict. The dominant partner also satisfies a need to be head of the household and this often gets incorporated into their sense of identity and becomes a source of pride, etc. So it works well for both.

 

However, things change over the years and the beta partner may start to feel discontent. Possibly this has happened and she wishes to feel like more of an “equal partner” in the marriage but she doesn’t know how to express this or feels you wouldn’t accept this. So she’s being very passive-aggressive until you figure it out. You might try to express this to her in your own words and see if there are aspects of your shared life she wants more say in or control over. Maybe she’s sick of doing ironing etc, or maybe it’s other things.

 

Another possibility: she may feel there’s a significant lack of quality time as a family. I think you mentioned kids. This doesn’t fit well with a 180 approach, but you could try doing fun family stuff together, even though things are rocky right now. Bring her along, find ways to brighten her mood (if possible). Do this for a while and see if it improves her thoughts about the marriage and how she feels towards you. Think a 180 approach countermands this, though.

 

So these are all possibilities you could look into.

 

One further suggestion is to take a demeanor of “quiet strength” when you have arguments with her. If you’re (understandably) angry/frustrated and feel like you’re going to lash out verbally or take an icy tone, take a long while to calm down and then discuss the logical aspects of the disagreement in a calm, neutrally friendly tone. For example to point out that the vast majority of the time you’re fine, not mean or that really the kids aren’t scared of you, since you’re normally a nice dad, etc. Focus on the illogic without letting the emotion escalate (as much as possible). If she starts to escalate, remain calm, reasonably friendly/constructive, and focus on the logical issues, or walk away calmly for a bit until she cools off.

 

Hope some or any of this helps. Sometimes there’s little one can do, unfortunately, but I hope for the best for you.

[Blind-Sided]

I know you've been resisting the idea that she is having an affair but the more you post the more obvious it is.

 

........

 

Honestly what your willing to believe at this point is irrelevant, but she seems done and you wont accept it. You cant force her to want you, time to sack up and move on, you are accomplishing nothing since what, November December?

 

I'm ending a 23 year marriage and it took me a long time to finally take action too. It can be tough to see past the little things that seem encouraging and diminish the big things that really matter. I don't have specific advice other than to know what you want and go after it. At some point you may decide you're done. I wish you the best.

 

 

To both: On some level, I have accepted it. (to a point) I accept that she has turned minor things into a major event, and has killed herself inside. But as long as I want to resolve the issues... she has to be the one to actually end it. I know that may not make sense to anyone other than me.

 

 

I still don't think it's an OM. I have blabber mouth kids, and even if they were getting a baby sitter... I would know. (I've asked the younger one)

 

All of the below is just my personal opinion FWIW:

 

So, if I read all the above correctly, she’s “just unhappy” - unhappy enough to leave but won’t really express why. She’s made you out to be something of a monster, but you’re not, and the usual reasons (such as OM) don’t seem to apply. It’s probably something, though.

 

 

Um.... yep. Nail on the head.

 

Time to start thinking outside the box. The good news, sort of, appears to be that she’s in no hurry to leave so you have time to try to analyze this further, assuming you care to.

 

Possibly there is some major unfulfilled life issue driving this. Some possibilities (and I’ve no intent to offend you here, I’m just trying to brainstorm/think outside the box):

 

 

• She’s lesbian, trans, or bi, and hasn’t dealt with it up to now due to societal pressures but has realized that “life is short” and wishes to explore this side of her
  
• She’s has (heavy) BDSM desires and hasn’t dealt with it up to now due to societal pressures but has realized that “life is short” and wishes to explore this side of her; she feels she can’t express it to you as your marriage is founded on more vanilla practices (I’m assuming this, of course I could be wrong)
  
• She has some unfulfilled goal or life ambition and feels she can’t attain it in the marriage

I never take offence to someone trying to help. Something may come up that I havn't thought about, and I thank you for this very detailed post.

 

 

Lesbian: Don't think so. She never had those tendencies in college, and doesn't really like oral on her. (Not never, but hardly)

 

 

BDSM: Who knows, but she was never the "Hot and heavy" type. Even when younger, it was a few times a week. Her way of letting me know she was in the mood is simply telling me she was going to bed (early) or coming to bed with me. (not aggressive)

 

 

Unfulfilled goal: DING DING DING... we have a winner. OK, this came out in the very beginning of this, but my counter was... "You chose the job you are in, you chose the city we are in, you chose our house, and you chose how many kids we have." SO... while that was a point, it's the position she put herself in.

 

 

Possibly she has (clinical) depression or is developing a personality issue that is distorting her perceptions of you and the marriage.

 

 

I think so. her meds aren't keeping her balanced, and I was told by someone else... "It becomes the new normal after a while".

 

Per some suggestions above, possibly be she has feelings for an OM but hasn't acted on them; so you're not aware of who it is or that the change is in progress.

 

 

Maybe. But wouldn't know who after all these years.

 

Another poster mentioned drug addiction. This can be hard to spot and opioid addiction is rampant. This is another possibility you might try to look into (carefully).

 

 

Maybe. She lost some weight, but she said it was stress. (from this) But, I had blown my back years ago, and had some pills sitting around. I recently just got rid of them. SO... if that was the case, they would have just gone missing.

 

Another angle: I get the sense from your posts that you are the dominant partner in your marriage. Many people (women and men) look for a dominant partner – it’s a good, if somewhat parasitic, strategy as it makes getting one’s needs met and tends to reduce conflict. The dominant partner also satisfies a need to be head of the household and this often gets incorporated into their sense of identity and becomes a source of pride, etc. So it works well for both.

 

However, things change over the years and the beta partner may start to feel discontent. Possibly this has happened and she wishes to feel like more of an “equal partner” in the marriage but she doesn’t know how to express this or feels you wouldn’t accept this. So she’s being very passive-aggressive until you figure it out. You might try to express this to her in your own words and see if there are aspects of your shared life she wants more say in or control over. Maybe she’s sick of doing ironing etc, or maybe it’s other things.

 

 

Yes... I would say I am the dominate partner. But for years, I would asked her to "Have an Opinion" even for basic stuff.

 

Another possibility: she may feel there’s a significant lack of quality time as a family. I think you mentioned kids. This doesn’t fit well with a 180 approach, but you could try doing fun family stuff together, even though things are rocky right now. Bring her along, find ways to brighten her mood (if possible). Do this for a while and see if it improves her thoughts about the marriage and how she feels towards you. Think a 180 approach countermands this, though.

 

 

With kinds... yes, the 180 isn't easy. And I've tried to do some things as a family, and she just gets upset, or remains distant.

 

One further suggestion is to take a demeanor of “quiet strength” when you have arguments with her. If you’re (understandably) angry/frustrated and feel like you’re going to lash out verbally or take an icy tone, take a long while to calm down and then discuss the logical aspects of the disagreement in a calm, neutrally friendly tone. For example to point out that the vast majority of the time you’re fine, not mean or that really the kids aren’t scared of you, since you’re normally a nice dad, etc. Focus on the illogic without letting the emotion escalate (as much as possible). If she starts to escalate, remain calm, reasonably friendly/constructive, and focus on the logical issues, or walk away calmly for a bit until she cools off.

 

Hope some or any of this helps. Sometimes there’s little one can do, unfortunately, but I hope for the best for you.

 

 

 

I've been cutting back on the emotions, and talking to her in a very rational way. That makes her mad too.

 

 

 

 

Unfortunately... I think something will unfold when I get home from this trip. All along, I haven't pushed for an answer... I've simply asked for hope. But she won't say yes or no to that. So, it's in limbo. While I would like to take more time to figure it out... it's killing me inside. So, I don't know if I'm at the end or not. With that said... if I get home and she something like... "There a lot of things wrong, but I want to start talking about it"... I am the kind of person who can put this all behind me, and move forward.

 

 

 

 

Thanks for the input everyone.

[mark clemson]

Unfulfilled goal: DING DING DING... we have a winner. OK, this came out in the very beginning of this, but my counter was... "You chose the job you are in, you chose the city we are in, you chose our house, and you chose how many kids we have." SO... while that was a point, it's the position she put herself in.

 

 

Suggest trying to figure out what the unfulfilled goal is and stating and showing her that you'll help her attain it. But she does need to start explaining her wants/needs for this to happen. Hope you can get her to do that.

[elaine567]

I've been cutting back on the emotions, and talking to her in a very rational way. That makes her mad too.

 

People in relationships who are very upset and angry like your wife is, do not to want to be spoken to in a "rational" way. They are wound up and at the end of their tether.

They want their anger acknowledged, they want a reaction, they want to be heard, they want something done usually.

They often just want a fight basically to get it all out of their system. To perhaps say the things they really want to say.

 

They do not want to be met with "Calm down dear, let's be rational here..."

It can be seen as superior and condescending too to the person whose pent up emotions are no doubt killing them. A manipulative trick. They can feel their concerns are being minimised in a sea of "rationality"...

 

Red rag to a bull.

[Blind-Sided]

Suggest trying to figure out what the unfulfilled goal is and stating and showing her that you'll help her attain it. But she does need to start explaining her wants/needs for this to happen. Hope you can get her to do that.

 

 

Sure. Agreed. But that's kind if the issue... she wont simply tell me what she is looking for.

 

People in relationships who are very upset and angry like your wife is, do not to want to be spoken to in a "rational" way. They are wound up and at the end of their tether.

They want their anger acknowledged, they want a reaction, they want to be heard, they want something done usually.

They often just want a fight basically to get it all out of their system. To perhaps say the things they really want to say.

 

They do not want to be met with "Calm down dear, let's be rational here..."

It can be seen as superior and condescending too to the person whose pent up emotions are no doubt killing them. A manipulative trick. They can feel their concerns are being minimised in a sea of "rationality"...

 

Red rag to a bull.

 

 

I agree here too.

 

 

But understand, I'm not saying "Settle down" to her at all. I'm letting her be upset. I guess the word "Rational" isn't exactly right... it's more logical. Basically, the logic of the situation is upsetting her, because she knows it's right. Whereas, her words are just emotional. (ie, I'm mad because I want to be mad)

 

 

Oh... also, in all of this, she hasn't said I've been condescending. There have been a few times she says I'm dismissive of her comments. But that's only because they had no merit. (false truths, or hearing the words the way she wanted to hear them) And example is how she said she "fears for her life" around me. But in 20 years, I've never set a finger on her in anger... I've never thretend to do her harm... and I'm never picked up a weapon of any kind. (bat, pan, stick... anything !!!) So... her fear is without merit.

Edited February 28, 2019 by Blind-Sided

[vla1120]

She fears for her life around you and you’ve never given her a reason for that? That’s a pretty big red flag for me. Clearly she has that anxiety for a reason, something from her youth? She is expressing a feeling of helplessness, for some reason.

 

I know you have told her to set up MC. I think putting that ball in her court sets her up for failure. She’s not going to make that call because she does not know what she wants. If I were you, I would set up the MC. Show her how committed you are to fixing this. Also, you mentioned you do not need IC. If this has been stressed to her, she may take that as you saying “The problem is not me. It’s you. Fix you and it will fix us.” (whether or not that is your intent, but then, my husband used to come right out and say that to me verbatim, so that might be why I am sensitive to that.)

 

Wait. You know what? I was actually going to suggest that you “surrender” to her in a way. Tell her you want this to work. You want to help her figure out what is missing in her life, and you want to be there to support her in pursuing that, but you want to let HER lead the way. That goes against making the appt for MC (though I would still do that and if she won’t go, you go yourself, because even if you don’t need IC, your marriage does need MC.) I hope that makes sense!

 

EDIT: I just wanted to clarify that I’m not implying she has a reason to be afraid of you. I’m saying she’s afraid for SOME reason and the two of you should try to figure out why, if you can.

Edited March 1, 2019 by vla1120

[elaine567]

EDIT: I just wanted to clarify that I’m not implying she has a reason to be afraid of you. I’m saying she’s afraid for SOME reason and the two of you should try to figure out why, if you can.

 

 

Agreed.

 

OP

You cannot just dismiss her fear as having no merit.

Fear can take many forms, so just because you never laid a finger on her does not mean she is not afraid of you.

Women are in general a lot weaker than men and women grow up being very aware of that fact.

Men can be very scary to some women, especially men who are dominant, who stomp about, shout or throw things. He sees it as normal as he knows how far it will go, she doens't know how far it will go so she walks about on eggshells...

[Blind-Sided]

She fears for her life around you and you’ve never given her a reason for that? That’s a pretty big red flag for me. Clearly she has that anxiety for a reason, something from her youth? She is expressing a feeling of helplessness, for some reason.

 

 

Maybe. I know her dad was a yelling type of guy, but I never heard any stories of physical abuse. (God rest his soul) Although there was something that went on with her older sister that caused her to basically leave home at 16. In all these years, I never got the full story.

 

 

Now, her mother is the crazy controlling type, witch is why she never liked me. I took her control of her daughter away, and I wouldn't put up with her crap. (I would stand up to her)

 

I know you have told her to set up MC. I think putting that ball in her court sets her up for failure. She’s not going to make that call because she does not know what she wants. If I were you, I would set up the MC. Show her how committed you are to fixing this.

 

 

Maybe. I was letting her do it so she could pick the person. I don't know if she would go if I set it up or not. Maybe I will simply ask her when I get home.

 

 

Also, you mentioned you do not need IC. If this has been stressed to her, she may take that as you saying “The problem is not me. It’s you. Fix you and it will fix us.” (whether or not that is your intent, but then, my husband used to come right out and say that to me verbatim, so that might be why I am sensitive to that.)

 

 

I understand... but she has seen someone on and off since collage.

 

Wait. You know what? I was actually going to suggest that you “surrender” to her in a way. Tell her you want this to work. You want to help her figure out what is missing in her life, and you want to be there to support her in pursuing that, but you want to let HER lead the way. That goes against making the appt for MC (though I would still do that and if she won’t go, you go yourself, because even if you don’t need IC, your marriage does need MC.) I hope that makes sense!

 

 

It makes sense, and I have. I have told her that I will do whatever she needs to become a happy person again.

 

EDIT: I just wanted to clarify that I’m not implying she has a reason to be afraid of you. I’m saying she’s afraid for SOME reason and the two of you should try to figure out why, if you can.

 

 

 

Sure. I have 2 thoughts on that... 1) She has had anxiety, and is emotional. And a female friend suggested that she could be going through early menopause. Then factor in the meds, and she is just off balance chemically. 2) She has a toxic friend who is pushing her to not want to resolve things, along with the above, and it's just a way to justify things.

 

 

On that note... she keeps saying... "You have to know there was problems". It's just a justification, although it's not the truth.

 

Agreed.

 

OP

You cannot just dismiss her fear as having no merit.

Fear can take many forms, so just because you never laid a finger on her does not mean she is not afraid of you.

Women are in general a lot weaker than men and women grow up being very aware of that fact.

Men can be very scary to some women, especially men who are dominant, who stomp about, shout or throw things. He sees it as normal as he knows how far it will go, she doens't know how far it will go so she walks about on eggshells...

 

 

 

Sure. I think we touched on that before. At this point, I think you are right, although, in all these years, she never seemed that "Weak" to me. (That may not be the right word) But like I said... she never said she was afraid in the past... or that any one event bothered her.

 

 

 

 

Thank you to both of you for chiming in. I finished up with my last meetings, and I will be packing to head home tomorrow. Oh... and I was just face-timing my youngest kid, and she said... "I miss you, and can't wait till you get home." That shows how scared my kids are of me. (another thing she is using to justify her actions)

[anika99]

My feeling throughout this thread is that your wife no longer wants to be married to you. She wants a divorce but she doesn't want to take ownership of that decision. She is trying to make you leave and initiate the divorce. That way when people ask her why, when she feels guilty for breaking up her children's home she can always say "but I never said I wanted a divorce, he did" "I never told him to leave, he chose that" She wants to end the marriage but she wants to be blameless. She is going to keep this up until you leave.

 

You mentioned that you told her she will be removed from your insurance if you divorce but with all due respect that is not up to you. A judge will decide these things and they may very well order you to keep her on your policy or pay for her insurance for x amount of time.

[vla1120]

Good luck when you get home!

 

I wanted to mention that, when I started going through menopause (pretty early at barely 40), I thought I was going to lose my mind, literally. Suddenly, I understood why, before we started researching the effects of menopause on women, men would have their wives committed for "hysteria", which is understandably derived from the Greek word hysterika, which means uterus. Not to overshare, but shortly after my full hysterectomy (including ovaries), it was not long before I felt calm, sane, and logical again. Menopause can be extremely difficult and maybe she wants to get tested to see if that might be a contributing factor. Just broach that subject VERY cautiously.

 

(Seriously, I can laugh about it now, but I remember driving on the expressway on my way home from work, sobbing hysterically because of a song I heard on the radio, then laughing hysterically at the radio host 2 minutes later. To top it off, I would break out in hives from head to toe due to the hormonal imbalance. Ugh. The stories I could tell.)

[Blind-Sided]

My feeling throughout this thread is that your wife no longer wants to be married to you. She wants a divorce but she doesn't want to take ownership of that decision. She is trying to make you leave and initiate the divorce. That way when people ask her why, when she feels guilty for breaking up her children's home she can always say "but I never said I wanted a divorce, he did" "I never told him to leave, he chose that" She wants to end the marriage but she wants to be blameless. She is going to keep this up until you leave.

 

 

I agree 100%. And somewhere in all of this, I think I had echoed that thought. I simply won't do it. I don't want to give her another justification, or a way to lessen her guilt. As my name here indicates... I had zero idea, and after, I had no way to recover in her eyes.

 

You mentioned that you told her she will be removed from your insurance if you divorce but with all due respect that is not up to you. A judge will decide these things and they may very well order you to keep her on your policy or pay for her insurance for x amount of time.

 

 

 

Not exactly. We have this STUPID "Obama Care". So, it's not through either of our jobs. It's simply a policy that we buy. This is actually something we both have talked about. Since this is a political thing, I won't get into it. Neither are happy with it, and if she changes jobs, she will be getting something threw the new company. (something we talked about, and she went on a couple interviews already) Actually isn't a problem in our talks... just a point I used to make things real. (and hope to add logic to her mind) Along with that was separate checking accounts, her own cell phone account, and so on. On some level, it's like talking with a teenager about moving out on their own. Even though she takes care of the household bills (since I have finances with my company) it's like she forgets how much all of that is, and it will now just be one paycheck.

 

 

A final thought on this... since she is educated, has never been without a job during our marriage, and we bring home almost the same pay... a judge in our state won't award any alimony. And, since she has no way of saying I'm a bad father, it will be joint custody, there may not be any child support either.

 

Good luck when you get home!

 

I wanted to mention that, when I started going through menopause (pretty early at barely 40), I thought I was going to lose my mind, literally. Suddenly, I understood why, before we started researching the effects of menopause on women, men would have their wives committed for "hysteria", which is understandably derived from the Greek word hysterika, which means uterus. Not to overshare, but shortly after my full hysterectomy (including ovaries), it was not long before I felt calm, sane, and logical again. Menopause can be extremely difficult and maybe she wants to get tested to see if that might be a contributing factor. Just broach that subject VERY cautiously.

 

 

WOW. OK... the question now is... how do I approach that point. I know her mom went through it early, and was highly medicated. So maybe my female friend was really on to something. She has known my wife for a long time too, (10~12 years)and when I finally decided to talk to her (only a couple weeks ago) she was also shocked to hear about what was going on, and how it was happening. She said... "That's not like her at all"

 

(Seriously, I can laugh about it now, but I remember driving on the expressway on my way home from work, sobbing hysterically because of a song I heard on the radio, then laughing hysterically at the radio host 2 minutes later. To top it off, I would break out in hives from head to toe due to the hormonal imbalance. Ugh. The stories I could tell.)

 

 

 

OK... almost a manic situation. ummmmmmm......... (sitting thinking) ......... yep, I think this could really be a possibility. Not to get weird, but since I'm not a woman... did your menstrual cycle get random during this? Hers has. Longer than normal, random cramping/pain, and not regular like it use to be in the past. I'm just wondering if that could be in indicator. (?) Also, I think her mother had a hysterectomy shortly after my wife was born.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks to both of you. This really is good for me mentally.

Edited March 1, 2019 by Blind-Sided

[FMW]

Since you asked (the other poster)......

 

Changes in cycle in various ways are very typical of peri-menopause. Mine lasted for almost 5 years. Ugh.

 

Once it was over and done the peace and calm I felt was absolutely amazing in comparison to how I had felt before.

 

Honestly I really wouldn't suggest YOU bring that up with her though. Maybe talk to one of her friends or female family members about it. Maybe one of them would be willing to have a serious chat with her.

[Blind-Sided]

That's what I was thinking too. I could just see it turning back as a "You don't know what you are talking about"... or something else like that. If my mom wasn't so upset with all of this... I would get her to talk to her. She really isn't close to all of her family, and the only person I could really talk to (her sister) has only been hearing the wife's side for so long, I don't know if she would listen to me at all.

Edited March 2, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
removed quote

[Mr. Lucky]

She really isn't close to all of her family, and the only person I could really talk to (her sister) has only been hearing the wife's side for so long, I don't know if she would listen to me at all.

 

I'm curious, so many of the things you say she's mentioned are from so long ago, what does she say about the last 3-5 years of your marriage?

 

Does she blame you for your career choices and the absences involved? I don't have to tell you, travel and marriage can be a delicate balance...

 

Mr. Lucky

[vla1120]

I was thinking the fact that you mentioned her mother went through menopause early and was heavily medicated, that was obviously a topic for discussion at some point. If you have any relationship with her mother, she may be a good person with whom to discuss the topic. If she does not have a good relationship with your wife, then I would instead talk to your mother and get her advice and see if she would be willing to help - or perhaps her sister. If you talk to her sister from the vantage point that you are doing everything you can to save your marriage, maybe she could give you some insight and/or broach the subject with your wife. As long as you are approaching the topic from a place of love and concern, no one could blame you.

 

Like Finding My Way said, I was all over the board in respect to my cycle. I would go months with nothing, then go for a full 3-4 weeks very heavy (sorry so graphic.)

 

You mentioned your mother-in-law was medicated during her menopause. After my surgery, I opted for no hormone replacement therapy (HRT) because of the increased risk of breast cancer and did absolutely fine. Ironically, I got breast cancer anyways, so there's that. I didn't seem to need HRT, but maybe it would benefit your wife.