Reached out and we're meeting (hopefully)

[jtro243]

So for those of you who have followed my posts up to this point, I think this might have been inevitable.

 

Tonight I was speaking to her mother and she came up in conversation. Her mother kinda gave me the nudge to message her, at least for closure if nothing else. I was pretty determined to not message her, as I thought it would only be painful. Her mother mentioned that she doesn't like controversy or confrontation and probably wouldn't message first to initiate anything. This all came up because of a present I left with her mom a while back to give to her on Christmas, and she texted me saying that she received it and thanked me for it. Didn't read into it too much, and just said "You're welcome"

 

Well, after this talk with her mom I sent a message basically saying "hey no pressure but if you'd like to talk and clear the air I'd be up for it."

 

She said sure, and I mentioned meeting in person and said "I suppose" and when I asked where she wanted to meet and proposed meeting her at her house with her family home, she mentioned she would prefer a neutral spot. I took note of her attitude for sure. Very defensive, as I expected, considering the last time her and I spoke I was a mess. Probably just really unsure of how to feel about me or the interaction I figure.

 

Inevitably I asked to meet her tonight and she said she was too tired and it was too late, but didn't know when would be good, so I said "no biggie, we can figure it out later" and left it at that.

 

Tomorrow I plan to shoot her another message telling her I'm going out of town for a couple days but will be back before new years for a little bit and ask her to pick a time that works best for her.

 

I would like to lead the conversation with her into talking about starting over. Everything about our situation has changed, including myself over the past 4 months.

 

However, despite the fact it would be a hard pill to swallow, I am ready to move on if it comes down to that. My feelings for her have numbed through NC and I don't feel like she has nearly as strong of a hold on me as she once did so I will be able to maintain my cool and keep a level head.

 

I just know this girl felt like home to me, didn't matter where we were or what we were doing. I loved her very deeply and still love her, and I think we were very compatible. I just had a lot of maturing to do and self examination into my behavior and what caused the breakup. After every hurtful thing that's happened between her and I, even post break up, I still love her and want to put the past behind us.

Edited December 26, 2018 by jtro243

[PRW]

A little analysis of the interaction....

 

Didn't read into it too much, and just said "You're welcome"

Yes you did read something into it.

Well, after this talk with her mom I sent a message

See? This is what you read into it.

 

basically saying "hey no pressure but if you'd like to talk and clear the air I'd be up for it."

"No pressure" means there is going to be pressure. Otherwise there would be no need to even say it.

"Clear the air",...always "muddies the waters". "Clear the air" means get ready for battle.

 

and said "I suppose"

Lack of commitment, or lack of decisiveness.

 

I took note of her attitude for sure. Very defensive

You're statements above set the stage for her defensiveness.

 

Inevitably I asked to meet her tonight and she said she was too tired and it was too late, but didn't know when would be good, so I said "no biggie, we can figure it out later" and left it at that.

She knows it would just be a fight and she is avoiding it.

Tomorrow I plan to shoot her another message telling her I'm going out of town for a couple days but will be back before new years for a little bit and ask her to pick a time that works best for her.

She will never pick a time.

 

However, despite the fact it would be a hard pill to swallow, I am ready to move on if it comes down to that. My feelings for her have numbed through NC and I don't feel like she has nearly as strong of a hold on me as she once did so I will be able to maintain my cool and keep a level head.

This whole message shows that this is not true.

 

I just had a lot of maturing to do and self examination into my behavior and what caused the breakup.

Keep working on it.

[jtro243]

A little analysis of the interaction....

 

 

Yes you did read something into it.

See? This is what you read into it.

 

"No pressure" means there is going to be pressure. Otherwise there would be no need to even say it.

"Clear the air",...always "muddies the waters". "Clear the air" means get ready for battle.

 

Lack of commitment, or lack of decisiveness.

 

You're statements above set the stage for her defensiveness.

 

She knows it would just be a fight and she is avoiding it.

She will never pick a time.

 

This whole message shows that this is not true.

 

Keep working on it.

 

Okay, so how would you have approached her?

How would you have disarmed her and gotten her to talk?

How would you have gotten her to set a date?

 

I'm fine with people pointing out my mistakes, but show me the correct way to do it instead of just telling me I did it wrong.

[PRW]

Okay, so how would you have approached her?

How would you have disarmed her and gotten her to talk?

How would you have gotten her to set a date?

 

I'm fine with people pointing out my mistakes, but show me the correct way to do it instead of just telling me I did it wrong.

 

Patients.

I have no history on this other than the message you wrote here.

 

Here's what I would tell you with what little I have to base it on:

 

Whoever did the dumping is the only one who can try to reconnect. The one who got dumped almost always fails if they try to restablish contact. So I would only approach her if it was I that dumped her.

 

I would not try to disarm her and get her to talk because that implies talking about the past which is bad (see below).

 

I would invite her to a date a real date. Notice I said invite, not "ask". It is the difference between "Hey let's go to.." as opposed to "Would you like to go to...". If she turned it down I would say, "Maybe another time then" and I would walk away from it and not do anything until she reached out to me.

 

When contact is made,...you make a date,...a real date. Not a business meeting to "clear the air" or get "closure" or anything of that nature. What women remember about a date long term is how they felt emotionally when they left at the end of the date. If you try to "clear the air" you are bringing up the past and that revives all the emotions of negativity, frustration, pain, anger. So guess what?....she goes home feeling negativity, pain, anger. When something later reminds her of you (a song on the radio, a tv show, whatever) she thinks negativity, frustration, pain, and anger.

 

You have to break that pattern. You set a real date. You do not go an an apology tour, that is looking backward. You maintain the attitude that today is a new day, and you look forward. The goal is for her to have a fun time. She has one job and one job only,...show up, look hot, have fun. Nothing else. She needs to go home feeling happy about the evening. Then when she hears the song on the radio or a tv show that makes her think of you and the last date she had with you it is all warm and happy.

 

That is what you need to learn from all this, and if it doesn't happen with her then it needs to happen with the next one.

[ExpatInItaly]

What is it you feel you need to clear the air about, OP?

 

As it stands, she doesn’t appear to be overly keen to meet but she may go along with it. You could suggest another day, but if she’s vague, take that as your cue to move on without meeting her.

[jtro243]

What is it you feel you need to clear the air about, OP?

 

As it stands, she doesn’t appear to be overly keen to meet but she may go along with it. You could suggest another day, but if she’s vague, take that as your cue to move on without meeting her.

 

Because I don't understand why she's become so bitter. In the beginning it was just a break, and she talked about how she hopes things will work out and that the break would be good for the relationship. I did everything I could to make it easy for her, I did a really big favor for her about a month into all this, I have been nothing but patient and polite and supportive every time we've spoken. She left me on the hook with a lot of this. She still has a lot of my things, some sentimental more to me than her, and let me take care of one of her pets because her roommate was complaining about them, which I still have. Photos of us on her dresser and social media still, and social media stalking to name a few things that she has done which have left me in limbo with some semblance of hope.

 

I just want closure. Originally I wanted to see about rekindling, but now all I want is for this to be over and put it in my past but i just need to know why it was so easy for her to cut communication, why she continued to hold onto my things and photos of us and check my snapchat every time I post. Why she gave me any kind of hope in the beginning, why she didn't say anything when her mom told her I was moving down there, why she is treating me like a total stranger and refusing to give me closure and let me be at peace about this. We spent two years together and even in our last fight I was apologetic and sincere with her. I just wanted to end on good terms without feeling bad about the way things went down. It didnt have to be this way, I didn't want to resort to letting anger take over in order to move on, I wanted to talk to her and just let her know I made good on my promise to change and that I wasn't mature enough to handle the relationship at the time. That I don't blame her and I'm not mad at her for doing everything she did to move on. I just wish it was a more clean break I guess. It was just so hard because I got a job where she goes to school, and it was the plan all along to move here, and I stuck with the plan with hopes that we would work things out. Then I was left in limbo for months while I fought depression, in a town where I have no friends and only memories of her, working a job that killed any chance of having a social life, for 12 hours a day, 6 days a week.

[PRW]

There is a massive amount of things I see wrong in the things your describing below. I'm going to point some of them out, but all I can do is recommend a book that I often recommend. There is no way to change a lifetime of bad habits and a lack of understanding about women and the social interaction with them in a few Forum Posts on some website on the Internet.

 

The book I always recommend is Corey Wayne's "How to be a 3% Man". It is short and cheap. Anyone who refuses to take such an easy step to get it and read it is just choosing the wallow in the mess they have put themselves in.

 

Because I don't understand why she's become so bitter.

The root of your problem. Hence my comment above.

 

In the beginning it was just a break, and she talked about how she hopes things will work out and that the break would be good for the relationship.

Breaks are always a break up in disguise. It is an attempt to do a soft landing for the break up by the one who suggested the "break".

 

I did everything I could to make it easy for her, I did a really big favor for her about a month into all this, I have been nothing but patient and polite and supportive every time we've spoken.

You were the "Nice Guy". YouTube is full of videos about why this is bad and why it fails. A simple search on YouTube will come up with more videos on this than you would ever have the time to watch.

 

I just want closure. Originally I wanted to see about rekindling, but now all I want is for this to be over and put it in my past but i just need to know why it was so easy for her to cut communication

Closure is just a buzzword invented in the 1990's. In some cases it is just someone saying they want the bruised ego soothed, other times is means a person who can't accept an event in the past and is just wallowing in the past and "not having closure" is just the justification for their wallowing.

 

Why she gave me any kind of hope in the beginning, why she didn't say anything when her mom told her I was moving down there, why she is treating me like a total stranger and refusing to give me closure and let me be at peace about this.

You were seeing hope where you wanted to see hope. It wasn't coming from her. Her ignoring you was the real truth all along. It isn't her job to lick your wounds and I already made my point on the closure thing.

 

We spent two years together and even in our last fight I was apologetic and sincere with her. I just wanted to end on good terms without feeling bad about the way things went down.

The investment concept. Guys think that because they "invested" X amount of time in a situation that they should get XYZ back from it. Women aren't the stock market. "Apologetic and sincere" comes across to the woman as weakness and admission that you are "unworthy". That never ends well. Be honest, you didn't want to end it on good terms,...you didn't want it to end,...period, and you were hoping your actions would turn it around.

 

I wanted to talk to her and just let her know I made good on my promise to change and that I wasn't mature enough to handle the relationship at the time.

This is more deal making and pleading for it to not end, and again, an admission of "unworthyness".

 

It was just so hard because I got a job where she goes to school, and it was the plan all along to move here, and I stuck with the plan with hopes that we would work things out. Then I was left in limbo for months while I fought depression, in a town where I have no friends and only memories of her, working a job that killed any chance of having a social life, for 12 hours a day, 6 days a week.

That was a really, really, really dumb thing to do. There is a good chance that this was a final nail in the coffin. It is just too much for me to even explain why it is so bad.

 

You really need to get the book I mentioned above. You have GOT to rework your life and the way you approach things. If you don't this whole story is just going to repeat over and over and over with woman after woman.

[brownygoldy]

The book I always recommend is Corey Wayne's "How to be a 3% Man". It is short and cheap. Anyone who refuses to take such an easy step to get it and read it is just choosing the wallow in the mess they have put themselves in.

 

You really need to get the book I mentioned above. You have GOT to rework your life and the way you approach things. If you don't this whole story is just going to repeat over and over and over with woman after woman.

 

PRW, any recommendations for books for a female in a similar situation/with certain issues that could be improved upon? Thanks

[PRW]

PRW, any recommendations for books for a female in a similar situation/with certain issues that could be improved upon? Thanks

 

Not that I know of. I have ran across a few but I disagreed too much with too many things they said to recommend them. Too much of it was just manipulation,...to get your guy to do this, you do that,...to get your guy to do that, then you do this,...it is all pretty bad, and even when it works it only seems to work on the insecure, needy, or effeminate men. It just bounces off masculine men and just makes the woman look bad when she takes their advice.

 

You could read the same book as long as you are careful NOT the flip the roles around and try to do what he is telling the guys to do (that would screw everything up). You would have to pay attention to the places where he is describing the woman's behavor. So you would be kind of sneaking in the back door,...learning it in a back-handed way. It will also teach what you should really be looking for in a man's behavor and to know what is "good" and what is "bad".

 

Corey Wayne and I seem to share the same idea that the bulk of women's dating problems stem from problems with the men. It begins with the men. If the men get their act together then the problems with the women kind of just take care of themselves. Of course that is not an absolute, there are some really messed up women out there too, but it does seem to be a functional general principle.

 

Google his name "Corey Wayne" to find his website. You can read his book "How to be a 3% Man" for free online if you sign up for his newsletter on his site. His newsletter is not a bunch "junk mail", only gets sent out periodically, and most often is actually helpful information.

 

As for me, if you created a thread with you describing your situation I could give you my thoughts on it. But keep it short and to the point or I will have a hard time staying focused on the details if it is a big long message. Brevity is the sole of wit.

 

 

In a thread called "Cannot make sense of my feelings. Should I get back with my ex?" you wrote a post that was pretty good. You didn't use the term but what you were describing was the importance of Sexual Polarity. Corey Wayne talks a lot about that.

Edited January 2, 2019 by PRW

[manfrombelow2]

Thank you for this beautiful insight.

 

Patients.

I have no history on this other than the message you wrote here.

 

Here's what I would tell you with what little I have to base it on:

 

Whoever did the dumping is the only one who can try to reconnect. The one who got dumped almost always fails if they try to restablish contact. So I would only approach her if it was I that dumped her.

 

I would not try to disarm her and get her to talk because that implies talking about the past which is bad (see below).

 

I would invite her to a date a real date. Notice I said invite, not "ask". It is the difference between "Hey let's go to.." as opposed to "Would you like to go to...". If she turned it down I would say, "Maybe another time then" and I would walk away from it and not do anything until she reached out to me.

 

When contact is made,...you make a date,...a real date. Not a business meeting to "clear the air" or get "closure" or anything of that nature. What women remember about a date long term is how they felt emotionally when they left at the end of the date. If you try to "clear the air" you are bringing up the past and that revives all the emotions of negativity, frustration, pain, anger. So guess what?....she goes home feeling negativity, pain, anger. When something later reminds her of you (a song on the radio, a tv show, whatever) she thinks negativity, frustration, pain, and anger.

 

You have to break that pattern. You set a real date. You do not go an an apology tour, that is looking backward. You maintain the attitude that today is a new day, and you look forward. The goal is for her to have a fun time. She has one job and one job only,...show up, look hot, have fun. Nothing else. She needs to go home feeling happy about the evening. Then when she hears the song on the radio or a tv show that makes her think of you and the last date she had with you it is all warm and happy.

 

That is what you need to learn from all this, and if it doesn't happen with her then it needs to happen with the next one.