Still no dates.

[LightWave93]

25, Male. I don't look like the Elephant Man (apparently, I'm handsome), I'm quite social (having been described as a "people person" and a "ladies man"), and I have plenty going for me; finished uni with top grades, do a lot of volunteer work, am progressing with my career etc.

 

No dates. No hookups. No interest from women.

 

Few matches on Tinder, even fewer replies, even fewer numbers, and at that final stage they always ghost the moment I suggest a meet. In person, women don't make any efforts to interact with me and even when I do the approaching, you can tell they're not fussed. Bars / Clubs are void of female attention, apart from maybe one or two occasions where maybe someone tried to dance with me, but I don't recognize the signals. The difference is night and day between how I'm treated and how they treat other men.

 

Most of my friends are female (no I wouldn't date them), and they've all said there is nothing wrong with how I look, sound, or interact with women. I've been to see ten counselors, and hired two dating coaches, all who have said I come across as a confident, social individual.

 

I've been on other forums, and this one previously, to discuss this issue to no avail. I've taken some time out from discussing or even using dating websites, but I'm back hoping to make some progress.

 

Advice?

[Wallysbears]

Would any of the women in your social circle help to hook you up with their friends?

[Sinister]

I strongly suggest that you make yourself intimately familiar with this site.

 

 

 

[redacted]

Edited January 6, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[LightWave93]

Would any of the women in your social circle help to hook you up with their friends?

 

I know most of their friends and they're either taken (or otherwise unavailable), or friends of mine themselves.

 

I strongly suggest that you make yourself intimately familiar with this site.

 

[redacted]

 

Not only is that a load of crap, but it wouldn't help anyway as I can't get a woman in the first place.

Edited January 6, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[normal person]

Are you still in school? If so, then your problems are likely because everyone knows how much older you are than them and think it's odd, and/or won't give you the benefit of the doubt as to why you started school so late and are so far behind people your own age.

 

If you're out of school now, then your guess is as good as mine. What do you think your issue might stem from?

[alphamale]

dude, having a boat load of female friends is not going to get you laid (as we can see). At 25 you are very young and haven't figured out yet how to impress the ladies. When I was 25 I thought I knew everything about girls, but I knew nothing. With chicks experience is the most important.

[preraph]

So what age group are you trying to date?

[gaius]

You need to figure out why you're not putting out any sexual energy around women. There's no way you should have a bunch of female friends and you don't want to be with any of them and none of them want to be with you. That can only be explained by you being pretty much asexual when interacting with them.

 

There could be many reasons for that, childhood trauma, having rock bottom testosterone levels, being gay. To name a few. Only you can really figure out what's going on. But the root cause is all these women can tell, apparently almost instantly, that you don't have an ounce of real sexual desire for them.

[clia]

Have you tried any of the advice you received in your other threads?

 

If I recall, any time you received advice that didn't fit your view (that everyone thinks you are wonderful, that the problem is not with you, etc.), you asked those people not to post to you anymore. You insisted that you are sociable, good looking, fabulous, etc. However, your dating results show otherwise. (The reality is that if you are not getting matches on Tinder, you either aren't as good looking as you think you are or you need better pictures. I know you will tell me I'm wrong, but Tinder is looks based so there is no other explanation.)

 

You are not going to make progress until you can broaden your view and really reflect on ways you might improve and focus on what is really wrong, no matter how uncomfortable for you it might be. I believe in some of your other threads you have mentioned that you do not have a very active social life, do not have many friends (anymore or for some reason or another), and the friends you have don't call you to hang out. IMO, this is all tied in some way to your dating problems. Almost always when posters come here and can't get dates their social lives are also pretty sparse. Do you go to parties, bars, etc.? That's where I met guys in college. But the most attractive guys were the ones who were there having fun with their friends, not hovering around the bar clearly looking to pick up. As some have mentioned, your age might also be working against you, depending on what women you are targeting. You should be trying to date seniors or grad students, not freshman.

[LightWave93]

dude, having a boat load of female friends is not going to get you laid (as we can see). At 25 you are very young and haven't figured out yet how to impress the ladies. When I was 25 I thought I knew everything about girls, but I knew nothing. With chicks experience is the most important.

 

I've never assumed otherwise. The point I was trying to illustruate is that I do not come across as creepy (and have been told as such), that women find me comfortable to be around (and I have been told as such, even by women who were not my friends. One was clinging onto my arm as that said it).

 

I am young, but I am also missing out. I do not wish to be the guy that women settle for, and I would like some more experience.

 

So what age group are you trying to date?

 

I'm 25, so I'm open to lower or a bit higher. The fact of the matter is, no woman of any age demonstrates an interest in me.

 

You need to figure out why you're not putting out any sexual energy around women. There's no way you should have a bunch of female friends and you don't want to be with any of them and none of them want to be with you. That can only be explained by you being pretty much asexual when interacting with them.

 

There could be many reasons for that, childhood trauma, having rock bottom testosterone levels, being gay. To name a few. Only you can really figure out what's going on. But the root cause is all these women can tell, apparently almost instantly, that you don't have an ounce of real sexual desire for them.

 

I'm not gay.

 

I do not have an ounce of sexual desire for my friends. They are platonic friends for a reason.

 

I am playful / flirty by nature, in fact it's caused problems in the past because some of my female friend's partners have assumed that either party (or both) were interested in one another.

 

Have you tried any of the advice you received in your other threads?

 

I always take on the advice that I am given.

 

If I recall, any time you received advice that didn't fit your view (that everyone thinks you are wonderful, that the problem is not with you, etc.), you asked those people not to post to you anymore. You insisted that you are sociable, good looking, fabulous, etc. However, your dating results show otherwise. (The reality is that if you are not getting matches on Tinder, you either aren't as good looking as you think you are or you need better pictures. I know you will tell me I'm wrong, but Tinder is looks based so there is no other explanation.)

 

Incorrect. We were running around in circles on points that had been discussed over, and over, and over again, to the point where it was simply derailing my threads and I was unable to get any new, potentially productive and actionable advice, because certain individuals were insistent that particular elements were an issue when I had already done the research / sought feedback to address such elements. Then there was the general consensus (and somewhat hostile stance) that either myself or those around me were liars, which I did not appreciate.

 

For example; you appear to think that I am the opposite of what I have been told (note: not what I think). That I am unattractive and unsocial. I have provided "evidence" to state otherwise. These are;

 

- Having been scouted for modelling.

- That I have been told, on more than one occasion and unprompted, that I am attractive / cute / handsome by those around me.

- That when I share my pictures online, I am told the same as the aforementioned (including LoveShack members).

- That I have had matches on Tinder in the past (once I had 200+ within two days, though God knows how), but there are times when I do not get any. The issue then is trying to get women to actually want to meet up.

- That I volunteer, am a teacher, have been specifically selected for various duties involving interacting with people, that I go out regularly to bars / clubs, that I attend events...all of which consist of being around others, making conversation, making them laugh.

- That I constantly try new things to keep my life interesting, engaging, and increase my chances. For example, just recently I have started dance classes.

- That I have seen a total of ten counselors who have all identified and stated that I have many positive qualities, that I come across as someone who is socially capable and confident.

- That I have seen two dating coaches, both of whom echo'd the same sentiments as above.

 

I am more than happy for you to contribute to the discussion, but if you're going to insist that I am lying, that people are lying, that the information I am presenting to you in inaccurate, then there's literally no point as, again, we will run around in circles and get frustrated with one another.

 

Do you go to parties, bars, etc.? That's where I met guys in college. But the most attractive guys were the ones who were there having fun with their friends, not hovering around the bar clearly looking to pick up. As some have mentioned, your age might also be working against you, depending on what women you are targeting. You should be trying to date seniors or grad students, not freshman.

 

Yes, semi-regularly, as I'm now in my fourth year and training for my career, so my priorities have shifted. I always go out to have fun with friends and do so, not sit around in the corner.

 

I really do not believe age is an issue, due to the fact that women who have not interacted with me have no way of knowing what my age is.

[clia]

Incorrect. We were running around in circles on points that had been discussed over, and over, and over again, to the point where it was simply derailing my threads and I was unable to get any new, potentially productive and actionable advice, because certain individuals were insistent that particular elements were an issue when I had already done the research / sought feedback to address such elements. Then there was the general consensus (and somewhat hostile stance) that either myself or those around me were liars, which I did not appreciate.

 

For example; you appear to think that I am the opposite of what I have been told (note: not what I think). That I am unattractive and unsocial. I have provided "evidence" to state otherwise. These are;

 

I think that part of your problem here, and possibly why you go around and around with people, is that you contradict yourself all over the place in your threads so it's impossible to get an accurate view of your situation.

 

- Having been scouted for modelling.

- That I have been told, on more than one occasion and unprompted, that I am attractive / cute / handsome by those around me.

- That when I share my pictures online, I am told the same as the aforementioned (including LoveShack members).

 

Okay, fine. You are good looking. I'll just assume that.

 

- That I have had matches on Tinder in the past (once I had 200+ within two days, though God knows how), but there are times when I do not get any. The issue then is trying to get women to actually want to meet up.

 

Above you said you had no matches, so I went off that. What happened to these 200+ women? Did you meet up with any of them? If not, why do you think that is? What kind of messages did you send them, how quickly did you ask them out, did you call them, etc.? Maybe if you post some of the interactions (scrubbed for anonymity), people can help you figure out where you are going wrong.

 

- That I volunteer, am a teacher, have been specifically selected for various duties involving interacting with people, that I go out regularly to bars / clubs, that I attend events...all of which consist of being around others, making conversation, making them laugh.

 

Great. But in your other threads, you've said you have minimal social life, few friends, the friends that you have don't make an effort to see you, and you have made no friendship connections with anyone despite all of the events and volunteering you do. The fact that you do all this stuff is great, but it isn't turning into friendships, which I believe is part of your underlying problem with dating as well. That's my entire point.

 

You say people like you, but if that's the case, why don't your friends make an effort to see you? Why don't the people you volunteer with want to form a closer friendship with you? That's all I'm asking here.

 

What are your plans for New Year's Eve?

[normal person]

I'm 25, so I'm open to lower or a bit higher. The fact of the matter is, no woman of any age demonstrates an interest in me.

 

Consider that women your own age have been out of school and have started to build successful careers already. Women want to upgrade their lifestyles, and for those women, dating someone who's still in school is a step backward. I'm sure you've seen the Chris Rock bit about this. You're losing money in school, you're a potential liability to women, not an asset. Things will get better when you graduate, but then you'll still have to compete with guys your age who have been advancing their careers and earning money for the past 4 years.

 

For younger girls in your school (age 18-21, I assume?), they know how much older you are (yes, they know even if you haven't told them, there's a noticeable, obvious, difference between ages 20 and 25), and they likely think it's at least somewhat strange that you're still in school and/or hang out with people much younger. Even if you've started late for a legitimate reason, they don't care and they won't give you the benefit of the doubt. Women like older men typically because they're more mature, successful, distinguished, etc. But you're older and in the same spot as them, which is making you look worse.

 

 

I really do not believe age is an issue, due to the fact that women who have not interacted with me have no way of knowing what my age is.

 

They know, and it's probably an issue. Just because they haven't said anything about it doesn't mean they don't know or it doesn't affect their perception. When I was in school there would be "older" (23+) people who were still in school who would be around, people would typically assume (and talk secretly that) they were there because they had messed up, failed a bunch of classes, couldn't afford tuition on a standard 4 year schedule, etc. Kids are cruel. No one knew if the older students had taken time off to care for family members in poor health or volunteer in third world countries -- they weren't given the benefit of the doubt. People who are behind the curve in personal and/or career development were just assumed to be there as a result of some failure or shortcoming, whether justifiable or not. In competitive arenas like school, people are trying to make the best future for themselves, and oftentimes you are the company you keep. Associating with "the weird 24 year failure" probably isn't going to advance a girl's future much, she'll see it as an anchor and avoid that guy unless maybe she needs him to buy alcohol. I'm not saying it's right, but it does happen.

[LightWave93]

Above you said you had no matches, so I went off that. What happened to these 200+ women? Did you meet up with any of them? If not, why do you think that is? What kind of messages did you send them, how quickly did you ask them out, did you call them, etc.? Maybe if you post some of the interactions (scrubbed for anonymity), people can help you figure out where you are going wrong.

 

I also pointed out it was a one time thing, but to answer your questions; I did not meet up with any of them. I got about five numbers, but the moment I suggested a meet they would either agree to it and then not reply when I followed up closer to the time, or they stopped replying immediately. I do not know why they ghosted me; I asked people to review my conversations and I was told they were fine. The messages varied; some were more "informative" (IE. Questions about their life), others were playful or fun (IE. Non-serious). I asked them out / for their number within 10-20 messages, I did not call them (on account they would ghost).

 

I don't have any interactions to provide.

 

Do you want pics? I have offered this before.

 

Great. But in your other threads, you've said you have minimal social life, few friends, the friends that you have don't make an effort to see you, and you have made no friendship connections with anyone despite all of the events and volunteering you do. The fact that you do all this stuff is great, but it isn't turning into friendships, which I believe is part of your underlying problem with dating as well. That's my entire point.

 

My social life has somewhat changed for the better. I now have a solid group of friends but unfortunately they have finished university and are busy with their jobs, partners etc and live much further away from me. That said, we do still find out to hang out one-to-one or arrange the occasional night out (I have a birthday coming up, for example). I've made a couple of new friends (ironically, all women) from a few of the nights out I've had and have managed to build friendships with a few old acquaintances (that I only spoke to a little before), and that helps me be able to get out of the house, go to bars etc. I have also made friends on my course, specifically my subject group, but they are all older, married, with children etc. I have not made any friends on my course outside of my subject and who mostly comprise of people similar in age to me, which is particularly frustrating considering I interact with them often as I represent all 200+ on the course.

 

The last time I did volunteer work, I traveled with 10+ random people from the UK to a foreign country. Although we got along fine, no friendships were formed (I was the odd one out of the group, as there were combinations of people knowing each other, plus the one opportunity I had to properly socialize with them I wasn't able to take up, I was asleep on account of having driven for six hours prior in the late evening / early morning following a full shift at work. And I'm giving you all this detail because you seem to prefer that.). I did happen to get along with one other group of volunteers at the location, from other countries, with me developing more of a friendship with one girl I approached, and another who approached me. That said, I probably won't ever see them again.

 

The dance classes are new but I appear to have made a good first impression, for what it's worth.

 

What are your plans for New Year's Eve?

 

I have none.

 

For younger girls in your school (age 18-21, I assume?), they know how much older you are (yes, they know even if you haven't told them, there's a noticeable, obvious, difference between ages 20 and 25), and they likely think it's at least somewhat strange that you're still in school and/or hang out with people much younger. Even if you've started late for a legitimate reason, they don't care and they won't give you the benefit of the doubt. Women like older men typically because they're more mature, successful, distinguished, etc. But you're older and in the same spot as them, which is making you look worse.

 

I'm not going to debate this, but I will close this discussion with two bits of information;

 

- I'm not a financial liability because I have over 20k saved.

- I'm studying a Masters degree; the general age range of people doing so are 23-30. There are plenty of people within that age bracket at my university.

Edited December 28, 2018 by LightWave93

[normal person]

- I'm not a financial liability because I have over 20k saved.

 

Fair enough, but you're still in school not actively earning any (or much). Also, no one knows your situation and they won't give you the benefit of the doubt.

 

- I'm studying a Masters degree; the general age range of people doing so are 23-30. There are plenty of people within that age bracket at my university.

 

Well, ok. Are all the other people in your program dating each other? Is there someone you want to date but can't? When I got my masters I was younger than you, but most of the people your age and older in my program didn't date underclassmen, or even each other. People were generally there just to put their heads down and get the work done.

 

Do have any ideas or inclinations as to what the problem might be? Every time this thread comes up, you insist it's not your look, age, demographic, hygiene, attitude, temperament, methodology, etc. I'm not really sure what people here could do to help you. Seems like your issue must be something people pick up on in person that can't be seen or translated over a forum like this.

[ericw899]

Perhaps you are coming across cocky & arrogant to these women, rather than confident. Since honestly that's how you come off to me.

[LightWave93]

Do have any ideas or inclinations as to what the problem might be? Every time this thread comes up, you insist it's not your look, age, demographic, hygiene, attitude, temperament, methodology, etc. I'm not really sure what people here could do to help you. Seems like your issue must be something people pick up on in person that can't be seen or translated over a forum like this.

 

Perhaps you are coming across cocky & arrogant to these women, rather than confident. Since honestly that's how you come off to me.

 

At the end of the day I am only providing you guys with the same information that friends, family members, complete strangers, mental health professionals and dating / life coaches have told me. Sometimes I myself find it difficult to believe I have these alleged positive qualities. I only relay them here so that the same standard questions don't get asked ("Are you ugly?", "Do you talk to people?" etc).

[alphamale]

At the end of the day I am only providing you guys with the same information that friends, family members, complete strangers, mental health professionals and dating / life coaches have told me. Sometimes I myself find it difficult to believe I have these alleged positive qualities. I only relay them here so that the same standard questions don't get asked ("Are you ugly?", "Do you talk to people?" etc).

 

so do YOU honestly feel that you have/project these qualities?

[LightWave93]

so do YOU honestly feel that you have/project these qualities?

 

I'm not the Elephant Man, I do engage with people, I know how to have a conversation and I appear to be good at making people comfortable or laugh based on my interactions with them. I don't believe I come across as rude, arrogant, creepy, or any other particular negative trait, though needless to say nobody is perfect and there is always room to improve.

 

I am interesting in-so-far as I keep up with an active lifestyle (note: for myself), and engage in activities which people perhaps wouldn't do in their own lives. I have a large variety of skills and interests.

 

I have good prospects for my future career (and my abilities / performance are recognized) and I can look after myself.

 

I'm not the loudest guy in the room, but I'm not the type to sit in corner; point being, I'm not the most confident but I'm also not the least. Self-esteem can always do with some work as this aspect of my life has hit me hard, but I don't hate myself.

 

Is this the information you were looking for?

[alphamale]

Is this the information you were looking for?

 

sort of

 

maybe women are intimidated by your all-around perfect-ness and think that you must be married or dating someone.

 

that's all I can think of.

 

maybe you need to study your body language? who knows

[normal person]

I'm not the Elephant Man, I do engage with people, I know how to have a conversation and I appear to be good at making people comfortable or laugh based on my interactions with them. I don't believe I come across as rude, arrogant, creepy, or any other particular negative trait, though needless to say nobody is perfect and there is always room to improve.

 

Well, our own perceptions of these things aren't always congruous to others'. These things can be subjective. What you might think is funny, others might think is stupid, distasteful, etc. Just an example. More likely, what you might think is appropriate or normal, others might think is desperate, creepy, or uncomfortable. I can get a decent perception of you just through what you've written. Dating coaches? Life coaches? It sounds like you're insecure and very bothered by these things. You have problems you can't solve, it affects your confidence, and it emanates from you in ways you don't realize (most communication is non-verbal). Women sense that, and even a whiff of desperation can turn them off. Insecurity is your enemy. That's one of the less fun parts about being a man, you kind of have to pretend like you can never be bothered by things, when you're very obviously bothered by them.

 

People (women especially) aren't often inclined to share these opinions because there's usually no upside to telling someone these things. Why tell a man he looks desperate or creepy? So he can get mad and potentially hurt you? It's much easier to act as if there's no issue.

 

What did your dating coaches say to you? What did they tell you to do or not to do?

Edited December 29, 2018 by normal person

[LightWave93]

maybe women are intimidated by your all-around perfect-ness and think that you must be married or dating someone.

 

Nobody is perfect.

 

Furthermore, women wouldn't know these things about me anyway.

[masonjar24]

Hey man. If it makes you feel any better, I'm 24 and I am in a very similar boat. I am in the best mental and physical shape of my life, and I am about to graduate college with a solid degree working on computers. To make it worse, from 2012-2017 I got women non-stop. Very pretty women too. Had a few rather long term relationship with girls that most people would consider 8 or 9s. Tinder was also popping off. Now, for almost 2 straight years, things have been relatively quiet and lame. I can't really explain a lot of it either, it's hard to deal with. But, It has led to me become a much stronger and more well-developed person. So therefore I do not feel upset about it, but it has been a roller coaster and I had to go through some low lows in order to get where I am at now.

 

[] Have you ever gotten women? Girlfriends?

Keep your head up. You can become your own best friend and you will in time.

 

Also you are not coming across as cocky, arrogant, or "obsessed with being perfect"... []you are coming across as honest, open, and humble. I followed every word you spoke!

Edited January 4, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Merge

[LightWave93]

What did your dating coaches say to you? What did they tell you to do or not to do?

 

They said I had confident body language, that I was articulate, that I knew how to hold a conversation and was engaging. I dress well, groom well, smell good, maintain eye-contact etc. I'm confident, passionate about what I do, and all-round a decent bloke.

 

No word of a lie.

 

[] Have you ever gotten women? Girlfriends?

 

Two GF's, needless to say failed. I just want to get to a point where I can consistently get dates, and then from there experience casual encounters or both serious relationships. You were fortunate to have women "non-stop" for a period of time; it looks unlikely I'll ever get to experience that.

 

Also you are not coming across as cocky' date=' arrogant, or "obsessed with being perfect"... ['] you are coming across as honest, open, and humble. I followed every word you spoke!

 

I think a lot of members on here are accustomed to idiots who troll, lie or are outright unwilling to change their situation. As a result, the regulars grow accustomed to this and take a more assertive approach with everyone else. I even got banned off another forum for talking about this situation because they thought I was lying.

 

I'm not. All the positives I highlight are stuff that people, professionals etc have told. I have literally tried every suggestion given to me. I don't know how much more I can do than work on my career, gym, volunteer, dance, spend time with friends etc and still apparently I'm still not doing enough?

 

Women literally just do not give me the time of day, and to be honest I'm sick of going about my life seeing beautiful women, some alone or some with other men, and just wondering why I can never experience that life.

Edited January 4, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Edit quotes

[Joyce Simmons]

Can your female friends be some sort of “wingman” for you? Like have they tried to introduce you to other women out in public?

[LightWave93]

Can your female friends be some sort of “wingman” for you? Like have they tried to introduce you to other women out in public?

 

I've had friends volunteer to wingman on nights out, but they're terrible at it. Either they forget, get too drunk, or don't actually do it properly (I had one friend, tipsy, go to EVERY girl that passed by and just point at me).

 

I mean, despite allegedly being attractive and dressing well I've never received any attention in those environments, so seems a bit pointless really.