Date-onomics and the "Man Shortage"

[Wave Rider]

So I'm looking at this book "Date-onomics: How Dating Became a Lop-Sided Numbers Game." After reading just a page or two, I know immediately what it's about: many communities (whether geographic or social) have a way of attracting either more men or more women, and thus end up with lop-sided gender ratios; and in such communities, the scarce gender has a huge advantage in the "dating market."

 

I already knew this, but in the opposite way the author talks about. The author says there is a scarcity of college-educated men, which has promoted a hook-up culture and aversion to commitment by the men who can easily find sex without too much competition. But my experience is totally the opposite: I live in a world with about 5-10 men for every woman, and in that world, the women have all the power.

 

Some cities have more men, some have more women. Los Angeles has 137 single women for every 100 single men. San Jose (or "Man Jose") has 134 single men for every 100 single women.

 

It's true that with a shortage of men, the men can act non-commital, demanding, and have seemingly easier access to sex from women who are desperately looking for a relationship. But in a world where there are a surplus of men and a shortage of women (as it is in my world) the women can act entitled, rude, and extremely picky. Why? Because they can get it away with it. They know that no matter how badly they act, men will still hit on them because there just aren't many women around.

 

I went to my physics department Christmas social, and I would guess that there were 35 men and 6 women. 100% of the men had college degrees. So much for the "man shortage" that this book's author complains about. And there is no point for me in even trying to meet women in that situation. What competitive advantage do I have there?

 

I guess the lesson here for me is that if I want to meet some women, I gotta get out of the physics department, I gotta get out of the weight room, and I gotta get off the waves, because those places have way more men than women. When I was a Mormon I had no trouble finding dates because the gender ratio was about 3 women for every 2 men. I gotta find a community that has more women than men, or at least equal numbers. Any suggestions? Maybe I should move to LA. I can't go back to Mormonism because I no longer believe the religious claims.

 

I was surfing at San Onofre a year or two ago, and in a rare moment, I was talking to a couple women out there on the waves. One was from LA, and the conversation went something like this:

 

Her: So....do you have have a job?

Me: Yeah.

Her: Is it...full-time?

Me: Yeah.

Her: Well hi, my name is Jennifer! It's so nice to meet you!

 

If this "man shortage" in certain communities is real, then maybe I can understand why she seemed so easily impressed. And if it's real, then I gotta get myself out of the physics department and into that community ASAP!

Edited December 29, 2018 by Wave Rider

[d0nnivain]

If you are going to go hunting, a target rich environment is better. So yes, get out of the physics department. Go to a coffee house, a nightclub or event of some kind. Try speed dating. When I wanted to do that the events kept getting cancelled because there weren't enough men signed up.

[Geraltt]

Really depends what you're looking for, I think.

 

A "Jennifer from the beach" might be fun for a short time, but is that really what you want long-term?

 

Yes, the dating "pool" in the physics department might be challenging for some men, but consider the type of women that gravitate to that sort of occupation: in short, they're not dummies. They're driven, intelligent, and you already have something in common. (Note that I'm not saying that Jennifer from the beach is some sort of dummy, not at all. It's just that you're more likely to find someone with some intellectual gravitas in a physics department than on a beach.)

 

Besides, depending where you are, there are programs designed specifically to get more women into traditionally male-dominated professions, like physics or engineering etc. (One can argue whether that's a good or bad thing, but perhaps that's a discussion for another time.)

 

And... congratulations for leaving religion behind. It's tough, I've done it too (not Mormonism) and, other than watching my father die, it was one of the hardest things I've ever had to do.

[Andy_K]

Really depends what you're looking for, I think.

 

Yes, the dating "pool" in the physics department might be challenging for some men

 

Going to have to disagree... a ratio of 1 women to every 7-10 guys is not merely 'challenging', it's going to be physically impossible for the vast majority of men. If you gave every guy struggling guy in the department the same advice, most would fail.

 

Even if he's looking for a good connection, there will be more quality girls to be found in other environments than there will in his department. A wider net here is the only real solution.

[Geraltt]

Going to have to disagree... a ratio of 1 women to every 7-10 guys is not merely 'challenging', it's going to be physically impossible for the vast majority of men. If you gave every guy struggling guy in the department the same advice, most would fail.

 

Even if he's looking for a good connection, there will be more quality girls to be found in other environments than there will in his department. A wider net here is the only real solution.

 

Yes, perhaps you're correct. I guess it's a "numbers game" and a perpetual sausage fest maybe isn't the best environment. Still, I think there is something to be said for restricting one's potential partners to those of like mind. After all, even if there's a 7 to 1 ratio of men to women in a particular department, not all of those men are going to be interested. Some may be gay, some might be asexual, some might be putting career as #1 and have no time for relationships, etc etc. I'm not sure the situation is as dire as maybe it's been made out to be.

 

All that said, you make a valid point.

[losangelena]

Well, there are plenty of non-commitall men in LA, so if you’ve got more to offer than some mediocre d*** game, come on down!

[elaine567]

Yes, perhaps you're correct. I guess it's a "numbers game" and a perpetual sausage fest maybe isn't the best environment. Still, I think there is something to be said for restricting one's potential partners to those of like mind. After all, even if there's a 7 to 1 ratio of men to women in a particular department, not all of those men are going to be interested. Some may be gay, some might be asexual, some might be putting career as #1 and have no time for relationships, etc etc. I'm not sure the situation is as dire as maybe it's been made out to be.

 

All that said, you make a valid point.

 

 

BUT some of the women "may be gay, some might be asexual, some might be putting career as #1 and have no time for relationships, etc etc" some I guess also will not want to date co-workers and some will be looking further afield for dates...

Saying that, he only needs one woman and if "the one" happens to be in the physics dept. and she finds the OP attractive then win win, he need look no further...

[Poutrew]

Talking about how many women (aren't) in the physics department...

 

Back when I was a physics grad student, there were only 8 people total in the department, and of the 2 woman there, one was a red Chinese soldier who was going to take her education right back to China. Everyone knew it, and once she knew we weren't going to turn her in (well, she never did anything nefarious, but she had trust issues due to propaganda she was exposed to growing up) she loosened up a bit, but dating her was off the table...

[chillii]

You kidding right, they were her opening lines to you, just like that ?

Hope ya kept walkin.

Anyway , l wouldn't even bother in the sort of numbers of your area or get into some insane competing thing.

That def' wouldn't make for very nice women and l'd have no interest in women like that.

 

Think you better move.

[losangelena]

You kidding right, they were her opening lines to you, just like that ?

 

I know, right? I’ve never in my life said, or known anybody whose said, anything like that. It must have been in jest.

[Mr. Lucky]

I guess the lesson here for me is that if I want to meet some women, I gotta get out of the physics department

 

Balance my friend, balance. I had a notoriously male-dominated major in school, but made sure my minor, extra-curricular activities and other interests were in more diverse areas. Physics/surfing/weightlifting is not a recipe for success, regardless of where you live...

 

Mr. Lucky

[Wave Rider]

Well, there are plenty of non-commitall men in LA, so if you’ve got more to offer than some mediocre d*** game, come on down!

 

Well, if I were to move to L.A., here would be my profile: six feet, Physics PhD, surfer, athlete, classical music lover, bass singing voice, mustache and goatee, looking for commitment and marriage. I sound like a catch - and I believe I am - but you'd be surprised how little that profile is worth when there are 5-10 men (all with college degrees, some with doctoral degrees) for every woman. Think I'd have better luck in LA? Maybe I could find one of those professional women who complain that there aren't enough men around.

 

Now that I think about the lopsided male-heavy gender ratio among grad students at my university, my last few dating experiences make more sense. When I first got to my university, I immediately met a grad student in math who had gone to a Christian university for undergrad. She seemed to like me a lot and was eager to start a relationship, which we did. But in the months that followed, she seemed to....wander off. She ended our relationship, but couldn't give me a good reason why, and it was clear - even by her own admission - that she still liked me. I bet what happened is that there indeed was a man shortage at her Christian undergrad college, so when she met me she jumped at the opportunity to date me. But as the months went on she began to see that there was a large surplus of men and that she had a lot of new dating options, so she decided that she wanted to "shop around" a little more before committing. I'm sure that there were other reasons why our relationship ended, but I can't help but think that the enormous expansion of new dating options she experienced (with probably 8 men for every woman in her department) had something to do with it.

 

Two other dating experiences with grad students were the same. Both women seemed to like me, both times we made out on the first date, but...they said that we were "not compatible." I think they did like me, but they knew with the surplus of men that they had the power to shop around to find someone they liked better. All three of these women seemed to have no trouble finding relationships with other men. If I frame it like this, things make a little more sense now. Certainly I have room for improvement as a man, but I look at the men these women ended up with, and I don't think they're better quality men, but they are different from me. With such a surplus of men, these women have a lot of power to shop around.

Edited December 31, 2018 by Wave Rider

[elaine567]

People "shop around" anyway whether there is a dearth or a surplus of available partners.

Few when young stick like glue to one and reject all others.

Everyone really wants to see what else is out there as long as time is on their side.

As soon as time starts becoming an issue, there is a scramble to settle down to grab someone to marry, have babies with...

[basil67]

Well, if I were to move to L.A., here would be my profile: six feet, Physics PhD, surfer, athlete, classical music lover, bass singing voice, mustache and goatee, looking for commitment and marriage. I sound like a catch -

 

WR my comments aren't aimed at you, but rather your imaginary profile

 

Height - don't care

Education - 'tertiary educated' is good. Don't care what area.

Surfer - don't care

Athlete - don't care

Classical music lover - What else do you listen to?

Bass voice - don't care

Facial hair - don't care. Besides, it could change tomorrow.

 

None of this tells me who you are as a person. It's just a check list....and as such, it doesn't make you sound like a catch. I only tell you this to help you understand that people want to imagine connection...not just a list of stuff you do.

Edited December 31, 2018 by basil67

[Wave Rider]

People "shop around" anyway whether there is a dearth or a surplus of available partners.

Few when young stick like glue to one and reject all others.

Everyone really wants to see what else is out there as long as time is on their side.

As soon as time starts becoming an issue, there is a scramble to settle down to grab someone to marry, have babies with...

 

According to Red Pill ideology, women spend their 20s generally acting as flaky and horrible as possible, getting as much from men as they can get and giving back as little as they can get away with, and rejecting all sorts of great men; and when they reach their early or mid-30, these women get their comeuppance, and they scramble to find a spot with any decent guy, but find that there are no good men who are interested in them anymore. According to Red Pill ideology.

 

I don't think that is what is happening here. These women are respectively age 26, 25, and 29. One is now married and the other two have been with their current boyfriend for more than two years. These are good women looking for commitment. I'd be willing to accept the argument that I was not super compatible with those women. But compatibility is evaluated relative to the options available - the more options you have available, the more nit-picky you're going to be about this or that trait. If the gender balance were reversed and I was pretty much the only dateable guy around, I think they would have made more effort to find common ground with me. Please do correct me if there is an error in my thinking.

Edited December 31, 2018 by Wave Rider

[Wave Rider]

WR my comments aren't aimed at you, but rather your imaginary profile

 

Height - don't care

Education - 'tertiary educated' is good. Don't care what area.

Surfer - don't care

Athlete - don't care

Classical music lover - What else do you listen to?

Bass voice - don't care

Facial hair - don't care. Besides, it could change tomorrow.

 

None of this tells me who you are as a person. It's just a check list....and as such, it doesn't make you sound like a catch. I only tell you this to help you understand that people want to imagine connection...not just a list of stuff you do.

 

You're always here to set my straight, Basil67. Perhaps there is some error in my thinking, but I still contend that women care quite a bit about men's looks, money, and status, particularly when they're in a place where they have a lot of options with men. I was recently rejected by a 5'10" woman who told me that I was not tall enough for her. Women absolutely do care about superficial traits, and men - myself included - care also.

 

Perhaps I should change my profile to character traits I see in myself: Honest, trustworthy, loyal, considerate, tenacious, dedicated, reasonable. Does that sound both sexy and believable? Probably not. Will that get a woman all turned on? I doubt it.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but compatibility is largely created by a sense of familiarity - the sense that this person feels familiar to you, and that they remind you of important people from your past, usually family members. This is that magical chemistry that's hard to force when it's not there, but impossible to deny when it is.

 

If I was to create a compatibility profile, what would that look like? If I created a profile that described "who I am as a person", what would it say? What would I include in it?

[basil67]

You're always here to set my straight, Basil67. Perhaps there is some error in my thinking, but I still contend that women care quite a bit about men's looks, money, and status, particularly when they're in a place where they have a lot of options with men. I was recently rejected by a 5'10" woman who told me that I was not tall enough for her. Women absolutely do care about superficial traits, and men - myself included - care also.

 

*Some* women do care about these things. But we don't all think and feel the same way. If your argument was true, then funny looking guys with trade qualifications wouldn't get dates or be married, but we all know they do.

 

Perhaps I should change my profile to character traits I see in myself: Honest, trustworthy, loyal, considerate, tenacious, dedicated, reasonable. Does that sound both sexy and believable? Probably not. Will that get a woman all turned on? I doubt it.

 

No, that wouldn't sound sexy or believable either. It's because you've created another list. You need to work in sentences which paint a picture of who you are.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but compatibility is largely created by a sense of familiarity - the sense that this person feels familiar to you, and that they remind you of important people from your past, usually family members. This is that magical chemistry that's hard to force when it's not there, but impossible to deny when it is.

 

None of my partners have been remotely like my family or anyone from my past. Frankly, my husband couldn't be more different. However I can't speak for anyone else.

 

If I was to create a compatibility profile, what would that look like? If I created a profile that described "who I am as a person", what would it say? What would I include in it?

 

Again, sentences not lists. And truth be told, I don't know how to write an online dating blurb. But I'd strongly advise including some of the things which you'd enjoy doing with a woman. And of the things you do enjoy, write why those things appeal to your nature.

 

For instance, while I don't care that you surf, I actually really enjoy the beach and I'm a keen body surfer. If you were to paint a picture with words describing the early morning sparkling on the ocean as you get in, the feel of catching a great wave, a fresh shower afterwards and lunch with a beer after the beach, I'd be interested. The only thing which would worry me is that you'd be at one end of the beach and I'd be where the lifesavers are.