Geraltt Posted January 1, 2019 Share Posted January 1, 2019 Milady and I were invited to a friend's place to enjoy some xmas cheer. At my friend's place were a handful of his friends and family members, including his 25-year-old son, son's girlfriend and his (not hers) 4-year-old daughter. I don't know the son very well, other than his name and maybe to say hello to if I saw him on the street. My friend had mentioned to me earlier in the year that this son had fallen in with a group known for far-right extremist views. We chatted about it briefly but the subject was quickly dropped. Well, it turns out that this son is getting further and further extreme. During the short xmas celebration, he made a few references to Auschwitz and said some pretty nasty things about immigrants, Jews and others. He also was unabashed in telling everyone how drunk he was going to get but that he wouldn't take drugs "for just this night." I could tell that my friend was pretty embarrassed by his son's behaviour but I didn't say anything, since it's both not my place and I'm not about to change the son's mind especially during a family gathering. (One never gets in trouble by keeping one's mouth shut.) So here's my question to the collective wisdom of the group: What, if any, is the appropriate response in a setting like that - gathering of friends and family, especially when there's a 4-year-old in the mix - to hateful rhetoric? 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Artdeco Posted January 1, 2019 Share Posted January 1, 2019 It’s disgusting, especially with his kid being around. But I’d ignore it, pretend I hadn’t heard it, and leave it up to his GF/parents/family members to deal with it. They would be even more embarrassed if you got the son involved in a heated discussion about the holocaust, immigration, etc., and he would probably feel validated. .....they already know he’s a moron (hopefully), and that’s already hard enough to deal with. Link to post Share on other sites
edgygirl Posted January 1, 2019 Share Posted January 1, 2019 I'm Jewish and this makes me sad but I have no response of what the appropriate response is. Perhaps more education on the subject that doesn't come from hate groups? One of my indirect ancestors was murdered cold blooded with his family in the middle of the street by nazis. I hope this young man wakes up one day - I hope he visits a Holocaust museum so he can see where this kind of hate really leads. Perhaps his father who is ashamed of his behavior can take him to one? The sad thing is young people sometimes get lured into these groups because it makes them feel like they "belong". Link to post Share on other sites
Garcon1986 Posted January 1, 2019 Share Posted January 1, 2019 I would remind the adults in the household that you care about everybody's safety, and to let the parents keep an eye on this 25 year old very closely. Reporting to the police isn't out of the question here - just be sure on your local laws. I used to live in Toronto a long time ago, so I forgot what the requirements are over in Canada, for a reportable offense. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
basil67 Posted January 1, 2019 Share Posted January 1, 2019 My response would be to leave the event. I would thank the host for inviting me and thank them for understanding why I must leave now. No reasonable host would wish this kind of thing on their guests. To be honest, it speaks poorly of your friends that they allow this in their house. 5 Link to post Share on other sites
lana-banana Posted January 1, 2019 Share Posted January 1, 2019 (edited) Basil is right. The appropriate response is to leave, and privately (or publicly - your call) explain why you're leaving. "This is disgusting, I'm out" would work. I'm very non-confrontational but even I would probably have said something like "I don't feel comfortable, thanks for dinner." It's very weird your friend is comfortable having people over at all, knowing his son's tendencies, and "embarrassed" is not a remotely adequate reaction. Why is your friend willing to tolerate that in his house? Garcon also had an excellent point that you might want to talk to your friend or even the police about the potential threat. What you're describing is literally extremist radicalization and it's very possible that at some point those neo-Nazi beliefs will lead to violence. Talk to your friend first, and see what you can learn. There are some neo-Nazi groups on federal watchlists and you have a responsibility to report known members. Edited January 1, 2019 by lana-banana 3 Link to post Share on other sites
See-Me-Feel-Me Posted January 1, 2019 Share Posted January 1, 2019 I wouldn't feel safe around a criminal douche-bag like that. I'd split before he got too lit. I'd also be concerned about my friends but it's their unfortunate headache and not for me to interfere. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
edgygirl Posted January 1, 2019 Share Posted January 1, 2019 The "funny" thing here is that Xmas is the celebration of a... Jew. These people are such morons. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
grays Posted January 1, 2019 Share Posted January 1, 2019 (edited) That’s an awful thing to witness. I’ve never seen it in real life and hope I never do. But my first concern would be to get away safely. I can’t imagine that anything you said or did could make a significant impact on his behavior or beliefs and it seems likely that any reaction would be negative and maybe strongly so. OTOH, nodding in agreement, like I often do when I just want to get out of a conversation that bothers me wouldn’t feel ok. I might be tempted if he talked to me personally to say something along the lines of , “I find what your saying very scary.” I’d probably also want to be supportive of my friend. It would be so hard to have one’s child get involved with something like that. A piece of me wants to think that only an evil horrible person would be that way, but I don’t believe any of us is evil. There is probably something he needs that leads him to such a place, in my mind, similar to a drug addict or something along those lines. I imagine his parents must be in so much pain over it. Edited January 1, 2019 by grays umm, no idea how that smiley emoji got in there Link to post Share on other sites
Gretchen12 Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 I would just interrupt his talk, and state that I do not share his opinion, but that I'd share the rest of the evening together if the topic be left alone. If they choose to not honor my request and try to debate then I thank the friends and take my leave. Link to post Share on other sites
Cersei Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 I bet your friends felt pretty embarrassed for his behaviour. Sorry to hear you had to sit through this and feel awkward. Not sure what I would have done myself. Link to post Share on other sites
alphamale Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 you take him outside and beat him up 1 Link to post Share on other sites
major_merrick Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 Well, it turns out that this son is getting further and further extreme. During the short xmas celebration, he made a few references to Auschwitz and said some pretty nasty things about immigrants, Jews and others. He also was unabashed in telling everyone how drunk he was going to get but that he wouldn't take drugs "for just this night." I'd just leave and distance myself, but for different reasons. First, this guy isn't a Nazi. Not a real one, anyway. He's using some kind of identity politics simply as a cover for bad behavior. He's a punk and a criminal, not a true believer. I've been around real Nazis, and there's a definite difference. The original kind of German Nazi would stomp the kind of wannabe sh*the@d that this guy is. You can respect people's political beliefs, even ones you vehemently disagree with....but that's not what this is. This is just a punk addict, and unfortunately he has a GF and a daughter. He doesn't have enough brain to debate you or even put his beliefs into words, so you don't engage. Don't even bother reporting him, either, because the local .gov probably already knows about him. He's likely a pawn of the state....they feed these types because they are useful idiots who can be used to take away the rights of legitimate political dissidents. Leave the whole thing alone and stay far away from it. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
gaius Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 I don't think further ostracizing this guy or his kid by sticking your nose up in the air and leaving the party is the right move. It might make you feel good, declaring to everyone how anti-nazi you are, but as someone said it's likely he's spouting that kind of stuff because he's got some sort of issue. Or multiple issues. I'd probably try to engage him in a friendly manner, and if there was some way to gently rebut some of the more vile things he was saying go for it. Not to the point of turning the party into a repeat of the Charlottesville rally though. You probably have a better chance of getting somewhere reaching out to kids like that rather than treating them like they have a dump in their pants. Link to post Share on other sites
edgygirl Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 Send him the TED talk of Christian Picciolini- a former white supremacist who "woke up" and left the movement: At 14, Christian Picciolini went from naïve teenager to white supremacist -- and soon, the leader of the first neo-Nazi skinhead gang in the United States. How was he radicalized, and how did he ultimately get out of the movement? In this courageous talk, Picciolini shares the surprising and counterintuitive solution to hate in all forms. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Betrayed&Stayed Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 My response would be to leave the event. I would thank the host for inviting me and thank them for understanding why I must leave now. No reasonable host would wish this kind of thing on their guests. To be honest, it speaks poorly of your friends that they allow this in their house. ^ This and tell the punk to GFY on your way out Link to post Share on other sites
thefooloftheyear Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 (edited) What would I do?? I would probably stay and finish the visit, tune this guy out, and that's that...Getting up and walking out would just create a scene and a bunch of unnecessary drama..It's not the first time I had to witness/endure an idiot at a gathering and wont be the last...If it was something directed at me personally or someone I was with, that would be another story, but if a guy was just popping off a bunch of nonsense, then I would just tune him out, to respect the folks that invited me.. If I were invited again, I may say something to the effect of "Listen, I mean no offense, but if your son is there and talking a bunch of shyt, then I am not going to come"....Or I would just refuse the invite again and just make up a bs excuse ...After refusing a few times, they'd get the hint.. It's not my fish to fry, it's his...I don't need to get involved and neither do the police...There is no law against someone being an a-hole, although at times there perhaps should be.. TFY Edited January 2, 2019 by thefooloftheyear Link to post Share on other sites
Wallysbears Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 I would find a way to leave and then wouldn't associate with those people. I don't need that type in my life, or my son's, and won't tolerate it. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Geraltt Posted January 2, 2019 Author Share Posted January 2, 2019 I would find a way to leave and then wouldn't associate with those people. I don't need that type in my life, or my son's, and won't tolerate it. Here's the weird thing about it. My buddy has two sons. The elder of the two is well-educated, has a great career, fine wife, nice home, child on the way. The younger one has all the tatts (nothing wrong with that, but c'mon... a dragon tattoo on the neck? Really??), bad attitude, far-right extremist views that seem to be getting worse by the day, takes drugs, is probably an alcoholic... Both raised in the same home, same parents. Their father, my friend, is a stand-up guy, well-spoken, smart, really decent fellow. His parents are also very good people (if a little too religious for my taste, but to each their own). It's just a very peculiar aberration where this one family member has gone off the rails. Must be for some sort of reason, but I can't speculate on what it might be. Regardless, I haven't been in touch with my friend since xmas but will be connecting with him early next week. I might express some concern then but it will only be in passing and if he wishes to talk about it, fine. Otherwise, I'll just keep my mouth shut. And if we're invited to another gathering like that, I'll ask if that son is going to be there; if so, I think we'll politely pass. Link to post Share on other sites
alphamale Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 It's just a very peculiar aberration where this one family member has gone off the rails. Must be for some sort of reason, but I can't speculate on what it might be.. undiagnosed mental illness perhaps? Link to post Share on other sites
Author Geraltt Posted January 2, 2019 Author Share Posted January 2, 2019 undiagnosed mental illness perhaps? Could be. I don't have the expertise to make any sort of diagnosis, but that did cross my mind. Link to post Share on other sites
gaius Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 If the guy was a mentally healthy adult who just liked to bask in nazi views he wouldn't be running around his parents party spewing propaganda. He'd be quiet about it in that situation knowing the potential social repercussions. Everything he does reeks of acting out, which reeks of bigger issues. Drugs, mental health issues, depression, whatever. I gotta give his dad credit for trying to stick it out even knowing the personal toll it might take on him. Doesn't seem like there's a lot of people with enough integrity to do that anymore. And good on for you for being a good friend as well. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
loversquarrel Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 Basil is right. The appropriate response is to leave, and privately (or publicly - your call) explain why you're leaving. "This is disgusting, I'm out" would work. I'm very non-confrontational but even I would probably have said something like "I don't feel comfortable, thanks for dinner." It's very weird your friend is comfortable having people over at all, knowing his son's tendencies, and "embarrassed" is not a remotely adequate reaction. Why is your friend willing to tolerate that in his house? Garcon also had an excellent point that you might want to talk to your friend or even the police about the potential threat. What you're describing is literally extremist radicalization and it's very possible that at some point those neo-Nazi beliefs will lead to violence. Talk to your friend first, and see what you can learn. There are some neo-Nazi groups on federal watchlists and you have a responsibility to report known members. If in the US, the police are powerless to this situation as it constitutes free speech and it's in the confines of a private dwelling. It is rather unfortunate one cannot legislate decency. Link to post Share on other sites
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