Why can’t I keep a man?

[Wallysbears]

I think it’s normal but by that time, the best options are already off the market. They may come back on at some stage, divorced and with children. That’s not ideal for a youngish woman.

 

Not at all my experience. I guess it depends on what circles one travels in.

[thefooloftheyear]

No. Just no.

 

First, being 30/close to 30 and just ready to start actually looking for a long term relationship is quite normal in some social circles. By the time you graduate college/graduate school/start a career/vacation/have fun you're already in your late 20's.

 

While this is true, smart women try to lock down good guys while still in college or before they all get scooped up...

 

I am invited to a wedding of a client of mine's kid...She's probably around 30 now, but she met the guy when she was in nursing school and they have been together for several years now..

 

It's not "all over" by 30, but the better guys start getting paired up earlier than that...What's left is usually the dumpy and undesirable types, or the guys that are still out partying at that age and aren't serious husband/ltr material..

 

TFY

[Happy Lemming]

It's not "all over" by 30, but the better guys start getting paired up earlier than that...What's left is usually the dumpy and undesirable types, or the guys that are still out partying at that age and aren't serious husband/ltr material..

 

I'd like to agree with this post. By the time I turned 31 or 32, I had decided marriage wasn't for me.

 

Of course, I lied my butt off to any woman I was dating about wanting to get married. And continued to lie, right up until my mid 40's... At that point, I was just honest about my position on marriage and let the chips fall where they may.

[gaius]

No. Just no.

 

First, being 30/close to 30 and just ready to start actually looking for a long term relationship is quite normal in some social circles. By the time you graduate college/graduate school/start a career/vacation/have fun you're already in your late 20's.

Maybe in social circles filled with women that have similar issues as the original poster, but plenty of women with advanced degrees don't wait till 30 to start dating, and they certainly don't have so much trouble keeping a guy's interest past a few dates.

 

Besides the countless examples of women on the board that have dated successfully while in college Hillary Clinton started dating Bill when she was in law school in her early/mid 20's. And you don't get any more professionally ambitious than that as a woman.

[amaysngrace]

I’m sure you have plenty of things to be proud of yourself for but you shouldn’t need to boast about them. “I’m independent, I’ve traveled, I have an apartment” blah blah blah. You’re 30. You should have accomplished those things by now.

 

Maybe you just have some horrible self-esteem or something and that’s what’s coming across to these men. People who have self-confidence don’t need to brag to others about how great they are because they already know it for themselves and they know their personal opinion is the one that matters most.

[edgygirl]

Gosh... are you all from the country side or the Midwest where people marry at 20? Tell all the singles in their late 30s and early 40s in my metropolis (who are the majority) that they should have married at 25 :lmao:

 

When I dated my college sweetheart he did want to get married. I felt I had to first move abroad, get a job, establish my professional life, experience life.

 

I agree now that it's more advantageous to find a partner in your 20s when the best options are available. BUT... tons of people want to experience life before getting hitched. And that's what happens to most urban people in big cities.

[edgygirl]

Most men don't really use the 3 criteria below to pick a life partner. Women do. OP believes men think like her. They don't. It took me a while to realize that but it's so obvious.

 

I’m sure you have plenty of things to be proud of yourself for but you shouldn’t need to boast about them. “I’m independent, I’ve traveled, I have an apartment” blah blah blah. You’re 30. You should have accomplished those things by now.

 

Bingo

 

Maybe you just have some horrible self-esteem or something and that’s what’s coming across to these men. People who have self-confidence don’t need to brag to others about how great they are because they already know it for themselves and they know their personal opinion is the one that matters most.

[amaysngrace]

Gosh... are you all from the country side or the Midwest where people marry at 20? Tell all the singles in their late 30s and early 40s in my metropolis (who are the majority) that they should have married at 25 :lmao:

 

When I dated my college sweetheart he did want to get married. I felt I had to first move abroad, get a job, establish my professional life, experience life.

 

I agree now that it's more advantageous to find a partner in your 20s when the best options are available. BUT... tons of people want to experience life before getting hitched. And that's what happens to most urban people in big cities.

 

I know quite a few 20-somethings who chose to experience life with their partners before settling down and marrying them. I thought that was the norm.

[edgygirl]

Are you serious???

 

 

 

Yes you do. We all do. No wonder you're single.

 

 

 

I’m guarded and don’t like to open up a whole much on the first date. Why would I do that? I don’t trust the guy especially on the first date by telling personal info that won’t happen till like the 7th or later on as he gets to know me way later, but by then I’m nexted I till some other chick who is outgoing will snatch him up. So, basically I have to SELL my self on the 1st date, be funny, be witty, tell my life story??? Geez. That’s a lot of pressure. It’s either a hot or miss. Let’s say I’ll do all those things on the 1st date, funny, etc, only to be passed on and he still wants to stiff around. Pretty sad, that at my age, I haven’t captured any mans heart.

[edgygirl]

I get that you're guarded and a little introverted (which is fine! I for one love introverts) but you're selling a product (you) and if you don't give a gratis sample of why you're worth getting to know more... why would anyone "buy" more dates with you?

 

I think your approach is wrong. Yes - you do have to make an effort on the first dates, it's not anyone's "work" to make you come out of your shell and get to know you. It's your work to make them want to. And if you don't, a "lighter, more fun" woman will come along and get them, yes. Why are you surprised by that?

 

You're thinking like an entitled princess that people should be happy they meet. That would turn anyone off - men and women. I'd rethink my strategy if I were you.

 

I can be funny-but they guy has to make me come out of my shell. Then it’s too late for them to slowly get to know me by the 5th date, by then another chick comes along who appears to be more “fun” to them.

[edgygirl]

I don't think it's the norm, not in the circles I'm in. Looking back, I do think that's the ideal situation and the way - I - saw things was not the best.

 

At the same time, implying that OP is a weirdo for looking to settle down in her 30s is quite a weird statement and it sounds like the poster does not live in a large city - where that is quite the norm.

 

I know quite a few 20-somethings who chose to experience life with their partners before settling down and marrying them. I thought that was the norm.

[thefooloftheyear]

Gosh... are you all from the country side or the Midwest where people marry at 20? Tell all the singles in their late 30s and early 40s in my metropolis (who are the majority) that they should have married at 25 :lmao:

 

When I dated my college sweetheart he did want to get married. I felt I had to first move abroad, get a job, establish my professional life, experience life.

 

I agree now that it's more advantageous to find a partner in your 20s when the best options are available. BUT... tons of people want to experience life before getting hitched. And that's what happens to most urban people in big cities.

 

I think we live in the same locale(?)...The biggest metropolis in the world..

 

And yes, most of the younger people are paired up with others that they met in their 20's...They may not be marrying at 24, like I did and a lot of my peers, but they aren't waiting until they are your age, that's for sure..:laugh:

 

A lot these decisions are predicated on a woman's best child bearing years...Most will want to be done with that by 35ish,..That means if you are just starting that journey at that point in life, its already too late..Yeah, I know all about the freezing of eggs and all that nonsense...

 

Here's the thing, folks...

 

Life flies by...We all feel great in our 30's and 40's, and think we are invincible.....It comes crashing down pretty hard after that...Also, the later you start this game, the harder it is...One advantage I have to starting early, is that by the time I hit my late 40's I had complete financial security, owed nothing on anything, my kid's essentials all paid for, etc..I see people having kids and taking out 500K++ mortgages in their 40's and I cant help but think they are out of their minds...They have no idea how hard its going to get, once they start to slow down...

 

.02

 

TFY

[amaysngrace]

I don't think it's the norm, not in the circles I'm in. Looking back, I do think that's the ideal situation and the way - I - saw things was not the best.

 

Right. So an ideal situation is the norm. Meaning what normal people do.

 

Experiencing it all together with your partner is how you end up marrying your best friend.

 

I don’t think it’s odd not to be married by 30 though. Well, okay, maybe a little if I’m being honest especially if you’d both like to try to have children.

[Tamfana]

Think about what you want for your life and why you want it. That can give some clarity. Why do you want to keep a man, have a long term relationship? love? marriage? children? frustration with dating? Once you're solid on what it is you want (what, not who) I bet your dating will shift and you won't find yourself juggling or spinning plates to please and impress men that you don't really want to keep anyway.

 

Also, just my personal view, I waited to have sex if I was very interested in a man. If I had sex with someone before we were both committed to forming a relationship, I wasn't serious about him. My fiancé and I didn't have sex for a long time, several months and we think that made the difference. We both wanted marriage so we were both serious about finding the right person. That goes back to the clarity thing.

[edgygirl]

Alright fair enough and I'm not criticizing people who get hitched young... I wish I did too (looking back); my sister did and they're the happiest couple I know. But implying that's the absolute norm is very weird to me.

 

Yeah we seem to live in the same place

 

BUT... my OB-GYN said most her pregnant clients are women in their late 30s and early 40s. Times they are a changing!... You are right in starting things early is an advanage, BUT... I won't give up just because I did not. If that makes sense. Not everyone is lucky to have found the right person in their early years.

 

side note: I didn't wait until now. I've been married, and I've been trying to find the right person

 

I think we live in the same locale(?)...The biggest metropolis in the world..

 

And yes, most of the younger people are paired up with others that they met in their 20's...They may not be marrying at 24, like I did and a lot of my peers, but they aren't waiting until they are your age, that's for sure..:laugh:

 

A lot these decisions are predicated on a woman's best child bearing years...Most will want to be done with that by 35ish,..That means if you are just starting that journey at that point in life, its already too late..Yeah, I know all about the freezing of eggs and all that nonsense...

 

Here's the thing, folks...

 

Life flies by...We all feel great in our 30's and 40's, and think we are invincible.....It comes crashing down pretty hard after that...Also, the later you start this game, the harder it is...One advantage I have to starting early, is that by the time I hit my late 40's I had complete financial security, owed nothing on anything, my kid's essentials all paid for, etc..I see people having kids and taking out 500K++ mortgages in their 40's and I cant help but think they are out of their minds...They have no idea how hard its going to get, once they start to slow down...

 

.02

 

TFY

[JuneL]

Right. So an ideal situation is the norm. Meaning what normal people do.

 

Experiencing it all together with your partner is how you end up marrying your best friend.

 

I don’t think it’s odd not to be married by 30 though. Well, okay, maybe a little if I’m being honest especially if you’d both like to try to have children.

 

The thing is, people may grow apart when they meet so young, or they may have to compromise their dreams if they want to stay together (e.g., la la land).

[ChatroomHero]

And besides isn’t it the mans job to be funny and engaging? I have to put work into it? Doesn’t seem fair.

 

 

 

 

If this isn't a joke, this is your problem. Why would it be only the guy's job to be funny and engaging and what is unfair about you having to put in some effort?

 

 

I mean if you think it is the guys job to do everything to impress you and you say that is unfair "fair"...what exactly is your job? I know

what you would get out of it, but what would the guy get out of dating you exactly, a lot of work?

 

 

Why would a guy pick you over another attractive woman who is funny and engaging and enjoyable? Unless you are easy to get into the sack, why exactly would a guy want to be with you, because you have a job and don't smoke crack? Give me a break.

[amaysngrace]

The thing is, people may grow apart when they meet so young, or they may have to compromise their dreams if they want to stay together (e.g., la la land).

 

That’s not been what I’ve noticed. The vast majority of the people I know who married young are still together. And the couples in their 20’s that are doing it the right way by sowing their wild oats together seem to really have that staying power that will make their marriages last.

 

Sure nothing is guaranteed but the way they’re going about it seems to have the best chance of surviving bad times together because they’ve already experienced so many good times together.

 

Real good times...not a la-la fantasy of them.

[Joyce Simmons]

Thanks guys for the advice! After reading all this, I need to improve myself. Try to make some changes.

[RecentChange]

And besides isn’t it the mans job to be funny and engaging? I have to put work into it? Doesn’t seem fair.

 

This IS a joke right? You are being funny right now? If not, why is it "not fair". Why would it be fair to him to:

 

but they guy has to make me come out of my shell.

 

As other's pointed out, that isn't his job. Thats YOUR job.

 

I’m guarded and don’t like to open up a whole much on the first date. Why would I do that? I don’t trust the guy especially on the first date by telling personal info

 

Why not!?!? Whats the worry? Why the insecurity? What would happen if you opened up? Either, he will like those things about you that you share - and the relationship grows. Or those things make it clear that you two are not compatible, and no more time is wasted.

 

So again - Why not open up and share with someone you are dating? In my experience, guys like it when women are willing to be open and direct with them. Willing to be a little vulnerable even. It shows that you are comfortable in your own skin and have confidence in who you are.

 

So basically no guy was really into me? Or just didn’t like me? Even if I seem like a normal person, with no criminal history, no ex husbands, no kids, no abortions, no aids, I’m not an opioid user, I’m not homeless, never been arrested. It’s a tough world trying to impress a guy these days.

 

 

This is setting the bar REALLY LOW. I mean, I can say the same thing (well before I was married) - but I would never consider them my good points. I am sure you have better qualities than "doesn't have a criminal record".

 

 

While this is true, smart women try to lock down good guys while still in college or before they all get scooped up...

 

I am invited to a wedding of a client of mine's kid...She's probably around 30 now, but she met the guy when she was in nursing school and they have been together for several years now..

 

It's not "all over" by 30, but the better guys start getting paired up earlier than that...What's left is usually the dumpy and undesirable types, or the guys that are still out partying at that age and aren't serious husband/ltr material..

 

TFY

 

In my experience, and social circle, this rings true. And no I am not in some hill billy hinterland, I am talking about the San Francisco Bay Area. Most of my friends, myself included met our husbands while in our last years of college or grad school.

 

Moved in together after graduation, traveled together, established careers, and got married sometime after that - so married in late 20's early 30's. The vast majority of us have been married for over 10 years now - except for the few that never found "the one" and are now still doing the dating game in their late 30's early 40's.

 

Out of the group from college I still keep in touch with - 7 of us are married to men we met while in college. One is divorced (met in college), two are constantly single (no LTRs) and one that got married last year at the age of 39.

 

It wasn't so much about "being smart and locking them down" as that college is a GREAT time to meet people. Never again will you be spending so much time with so many people in your same age group, same stage of life, the vast majority of which have never been married. Its really the prime time and environment to meet someone.

[Kitty Tantrum]

No. Just no.

 

First, being 30/close to 30 and just ready to start actually looking for a long term relationship is quite normal in some social circles. By the time you graduate college/graduate school/start a career/vacation/have fun you're already in your late 20's.

 

Well now, hold on a moment. I would say that the whole education/career/vacation/fun thing takes a woman in the OPPOSITE direction from down the path toward partnering up/starting a family. If you're not actively working toward that goal from the outset, your experiences are not preparing you for such.

 

Just because it's become culturally normal to put off choosing a long term mate, does not mean that this delay is without consequence.

 

If you've not prioritized finding a man in your younger years, why would you assume that this is no impediment to finding one later?

 

I spent all of my younger years preparing to be a wife and mother. I'm not going to pretend that focus hasn't left me much less suited to holding a job or building a career. It's not that I COULDN'T do it, but I'm sure as heck not going to have the same career potential as a woman who spent the last two decades of her life developing herself for that purpose.

 

As a woman who has largely eschewed education/career/modern lifestyle, and focused on my femininity/homemaking/family-building sorts of skills, I have the opposite problem. All the guys want to keep me. I've had more marriage proposals than dates.

 

But I can't hack it on my own in the workforce. I can get by if I have to, but it takes a lot of hardship, sacrifice, compromise, etc. I'm a minimum wage earner. It would take a long time and a lot of work from where I am now to be on par financially with the women my age who have been going to school and working this whole time I've been raising children.

 

I know how to keep a man, but I've never had a vacation in my life. This is just fine by me, because I don't prioritize money/travel/leisure/status/etc. I wanted a family and was willing to trade all of that other stuff away to get it.

 

I think this works both ways. Can't have it all. Can't wear all the hats. Can't be everything to everyone. Gotta choose and then work concertedly toward where and who we want to be.

[JuneL]

Just curious...if you have your pick of of quality men who wanted to marry you, why did you not choose a good provider (who could complement your low earning potential)?

 

Well now, hold on a moment. I would say that the whole education/career/vacation/fun thing takes a woman in the OPPOSITE direction from down the path toward partnering up/starting a family. If you're not actively working toward that goal from the outset, your experiences are not preparing you for such.

 

Just because it's become culturally normal to put off choosing a long term mate, does not mean that this delay is without consequence.

 

If you've not prioritized finding a man in your younger years, why would you assume that this is no impediment to finding one later?

 

I spent all of my younger years preparing to be a wife and mother. I'm not going to pretend that focus hasn't left me much less suited to holding a job or building a career. It's not that I COULDN'T do it, but I'm sure as heck not going to have the same career potential as a woman who spent the last two decades of her life developing herself for that purpose.

 

As a woman who has largely eschewed education/career/modern lifestyle, and focused on my femininity/homemaking/family-building sorts of skills, I have the opposite problem. All the guys want to keep me. I've had more marriage proposals than dates.

 

But I can't hack it on my own in the workforce. I can get by if I have to, but it takes a lot of hardship, sacrifice, compromise, etc. I'm a minimum wage earner. It would take a long time and a lot of work from where I am now to be on par financially with the women my age who have been going to school and working this whole time I've been raising children.

 

I know how to keep a man, but I've never had a vacation in my life. This is just fine by me, because I don't prioritize money/travel/leisure/status/etc. I wanted a family and was willing to trade all of that other stuff away to get it.

 

I think this works both ways. Can't have it all. Can't wear all the hats. Can't be everything to everyone. Gotta choose and then work concertedly toward where and who we want to be.

[BettyDraper]

Great post....agree with most of it

 

I can only say that as a guy, its important for a woman to not become too "cold"..>Corporate America tends to harden women...That's where a lot of women get stuck in this area.. They lose sight of what is important and what guys see/desire in a "keeper"...

 

That doesn't mean quit your job and go wait tables at the local diner, just that you need to be aware of the things you do, and the image you project and how that affects the average guy that you are vying for attention from..

 

TFY

 

I rediscovered my femininity when I left the corporate world and became a housewife. I no longer had to be cold and harsh so that I could survive in a work environment. To deal with the stress, I was drinking every evening. I was too tired and grouchy to be a loving spouse.

 

I'm not suggesting that women should not be in the corporate world. I can only share my personal experience since it is relevant to this discussion.

 

Men only want women who are intelligent and at least somewhat educated. Careers are less important than the softness and vulnerability of a woman...especially when a man is successful himself. Though it isn't PC to say this, men generally have more respect for women who do not have sex quickly. Waiting a few months to have sex sets certain women apart because most women have sex very soon after meeting someone.

[RecentChange]

Well now, hold on a moment. I would say that the whole education/career/vacation/fun thing takes a woman in the OPPOSITE direction from down the path toward partnering up/starting a family. If you're not actively working toward that goal from the outset, your experiences are not preparing you for such.

 

I spent all of my younger years preparing to be a wife and mother.

 

I know how to keep a man, but I've never had a vacation in my life. This is just fine by me, because I don't prioritize money/travel/leisure/status/etc. I wanted a family and was willing to trade all of that other stuff away to get it.

 

I think this works both ways. Can't have it all. Can't wear all the hats. Can't be everything to everyone. Gotta choose and then work concertedly toward where and who we want to be.

 

Sure, you can't have it all - but it also doesn't have to be about extremes - a lot can be said about moderation.

 

Why can't a mother and wife be educated? Have viable work skills?

 

A number of my friends are stay at home moms. But they also have college educations. They had careers that were underway when they choose to instead stay at home and raise their children.

 

This way, they aren't so vulnerable, they aren't so dependent. If something where to happen to their husband or their marriage they are in a better position to provide for their children and themselves.

 

I am curious as to what prepping a woman must go through to become a wife, that negates the ability to also obtain an education.

 

For me, I know how to "keep a man" I am a fabulous cook, keep the house up etc - My husband and I have been together for 18 years now. My education and career certainly haven't prevented a successful marriage. How long have you been married for?

 

 

Men only want women who are intelligent and at least somewhat educated. Careers are less important than the softness and vulnerability of a woman...especially when a man is successful himself.

 

Ah yes, vulnerable. When someone does not have means or skills to provide for themselves, they become dependent on the other. Women all too often stay in bad situations because they know they can't provide for themselves. Or they have less choices in life, they do not have their own income, their own money, their independence, and rather need a man to sign off on a purchase, or on their dreams.

 

It works fabulously for some couple, and horribly for others.

 

Personally, I like knowing I have the ability to stand on my own two feet. My husband is my partner because I want him to be, not because I NEED him to be. If something happened to him, I wouldn't in a position where I was searching for another man to take care of me - because I am perfectly capable of taking care of myself.

[BettyDraper]

While this is true, smart women try to lock down good guys while still in college or before they all get scooped up...

 

I am invited to a wedding of a client of mine's kid...She's probably around 30 now, but she met the guy when she was in nursing school and they have been together for several years now..

 

It's not "all over" by 30, but the better guys start getting paired up earlier than that...What's left is usually the dumpy and undesirable types, or the guys that are still out partying at that age and aren't serious husband/ltr material..

 

TFY

 

There are certain realities of romantic relationships which nobody likes to accept.

 

It is much easier for women to attract the best partner while we are young.

 

Men will do better with women if they have resources.