Why can’t I keep a man?

[losangelena]

There are certain realities of romantic relationships which nobody likes to accept.

 

It is much easier for women to attract the best partner while we are young.

 

Men will do better with women if they have resources.

 

It’s fine to say that, but honestly, the reality is that people of all social strata and age get into relationships all the time.

 

My mom was in “the prime of her life” in the ‘60s, she may well have been Peggy Olson (from Mad Men). It was partially because of the social expectation that she get married early and start a family that she did the exact opposite. She dropped out of nursing school and got a job in Lower Manhattan. She bought a convertible (with her own money), and dated lots of men, and rejected plenty of marriage proposals. She finally met my dad in the mid-‘70s (she was a career woman in her 30s and my dad was a bachelor who had just gotten out of the military after 20 year; he’d been too busy in Korea and Vietnam to get married).

 

They started a family, had my brother and I, and then she went back to school and got a business degree and up until her retirement, worked for the same organization since 1987. Despite the fact that my dad was better-educated, he couldn’t hold down a job for more than five or six years. Her earning potential sure came in handy after my dad died in 2005. Had she simply groomed herself for wifedom and motherhood and a minimum wage job, she would’ve been SOL after he died, but luckily, she’s still able to support herself.

 

That’s not to say she would’ve had a worse life if she’s done what was expected and married early. But she didn’t and she still did just fine for herself. Saying you missed your best shot at a relationship if you don’t find one in your early years completely trivializes those folks who are late bloomers. That’s like viewing high school as your glory days—I feel sorry for those people. Some people actually do get better and grow into themselves later in life.

[Kitty Tantrum]

Just curious...if you have your pick of of quality men who wanted to marry you, why did you not choose a good provider (who could complement your low earning potential)?

 

To put it simply: I have no particular desire for the lifestyle that comes with high earnings. I chose my first husband based on years of friendship, shared faith and values, mutual desire to build a family, and his willingness/ability to provide a BASIC existence. I didn't aim for a higher earner because I didn't really need one.

 

The issue with my ex-husband was never his earning potential, it was (among other things) the fact that he LIED for a lot of really dumb reasons about wanting a traditional family in the first place, then went through with it anyway for even dumber reasons, and THEN refused to even hold down a job at all for most of our marriage. I could have managed our household just fine on one full-time minimum wage salary.

 

I was just pointing out that my domestic disposition (which didn't happen accidentally) has broad face-value appeal to men. But knowing how to get and keep a man doesn't necessarily qualify me to pick the best one for me. That's a whole other ball of wax. It's totally possible to lock down a man and then realize you've made a mistake/been misled.

[Orokotikki]

There's millions of fish, but you need catch a certain one.

Kudos for you throwing back ones which aren't keepers, and sure some of the great (seeming) ones maybe snapped the line or flopped out of the boat.

 

Working on your fishing gear is fine, but it sounds like what you are using is OK.

Maybe you need to change where you fish, to body of water that has more of the fish you are after.

[JuneL]

Okay, I get the picture. I think when those educated professional women complained that they can’t keep a man, they meant a quality man who is also an as educated professional and have decent integrity.

 

To put it simply: I have no particular desire for the lifestyle that comes with high earnings. I chose my first husband based on years of friendship, shared faith and values, mutual desire to build a family, and his willingness/ability to provide a BASIC existence. I didn't aim for a higher earner because I didn't really need one.

 

The issue with my ex-husband was never his earning potential, it was (among other things) the fact that he LIED for a lot of really dumb reasons about wanting a traditional family in the first place, then went through with it anyway for even dumber reasons, and THEN refused to even hold down a job at all for most of our marriage. I could have managed our household just fine on one full-time minimum wage salary.

 

I was just pointing out that my domestic disposition (which didn't happen accidentally) has broad face-value appeal to men. But knowing how to get and keep a man doesn't necessarily qualify me to pick the best one for me. That's a whole other ball of wax. It's totally possible to lock down a man and then realize you've made a mistake/been misled.

[Kitty Tantrum]

Sure, you can't have it all - but it also doesn't have to be about extremes - a lot can be said about moderation.

 

Why can't a mother and wife be educated? Have viable work skills?

 

A number of my friends are stay at home moms. But they also have college educations. They had careers that were underway when they choose to instead stay at home and raise their children.

 

This way, they aren't so vulnerable, they aren't so dependent. If something where to happen to their husband or their marriage they are in a better position to provide for their children and themselves.

 

I am curious as to what prepping a woman must go through to become a wife, that negates the ability to also obtain an education.

 

For me, I know how to "keep a man" I am a fabulous cook, keep the house up etc - My husband and I have been together for 18 years now. My education and career certainly haven't prevented a successful marriage. How long have you been married for?

 

I think you're putting words in my mouth. I didn't say a wife and mother can't be educated. I had a two year college degree by the time other girls my age were graduating high school, and that never stopped me from developing my domestic skills (in fact I got the degree because it qualifies me to homeschool my kids).

 

The domestic skills I've developed can be monetized in a pinch - and I have done so when life required it of me. Paired with my ability to live very frugally, I can stand on my own feet and have done so - after my marriage ended for reasons I've touched on above.

 

It's not that preparing to be a wife and mother negates the ability to obtain an education. My point was that if you spend a huge chunk of your life focused on one thing INSTEAD of another... you can expect to become skilled in the former and to struggle with the latter if/when you shift gears.

 

Just like it would be objectively harder for me to get a "good" job because I NEVER focused on building a career, professional contacts, etc. - it stands to reason that a woman who NEVER focuses on developing herself for the purpose of attracting and keeping a long-term mate will face a similar struggle.

 

These extremes are used only to illustrate the principle at play: people get good at the skills they develop. I'm not saying OP or anyone here is so extreme in their career focus as to rule out the potential of finding a suitable mate. That would be presumptuous and mean, and I apologize if anyone took it that way.

 

But I often see women citing their education, career, income, travel, etc. as reasons why they're good relationship/marriage candidates, and wondering why these things aren't making men fall into their laps. I think that's a bit like me wondering why I can't seem to get a high-paying job on account of the fact that I have a gentle, reserved demeanor, can cook really well, and keep a spotless home.

 

The skills/experiences that make you highly accomplished in one arena don't necessarily translate to another. Most of the time, if you WANT something different from what you have, you have to DO something different from what you've done.

[RecentChange]

I was just pointing out that my domestic disposition (which didn't happen accidentally) has broad face-value appeal to men. But knowing how to get and keep a man doesn't necessarily qualify me to pick the best one for me. That's a whole other ball of wax. It's totally possible to lock down a man and then realize you've made a mistake/been misled.

 

Very true - and without the ability to financially provide for herself, a woman who has chosen to be dependent upon a man to take care of her, will be in a much more vulnerable position if she finds out that he spouse is not what she hoped he would be.

 

My mother was a good home marker. An amazing cook, great with children, seamstress etc. She didn't have an education beyond high school, and had limited job skills.

 

She married young..... and well, truthfully, often. She was married and divorced 5 times in her life. She had no problem landing men, she had no problem with having men propose to her. And she was quick to marry, in part I imagine because she NEEDED a man to provide for her, and marriage is supposed to provide that.

 

My father (3rd husband) provided for her, even after divorce with great resentment until her next husband took on the responsibility of providing for her.

 

After her last divorce, it was up to me, and my brother and sister to provide for her. Luckily we were all college educated with careers and could afford the financial burden.

 

And till this day, I remember my father telling me "never expect a man to take care of you". Honestly, for me at least, it was great advice. I never have expected a man to take care of me, I have always expected that I should be capable of taking care of myself. That hasn't prevented me from having a long lasting marriage.

[RecentChange]

It's not that preparing to be a wife and mother negates the ability to obtain an education. My point was that if you spend a huge chunk of your life focused on one thing INSTEAD of another... you can expect to become skilled in the former and to struggle with the latter if/when you shift gears.

 

But I often see women citing their education, career, income, travel, etc. as reasons why they're good relationship/marriage candidates, and wondering why these things aren't making men fall into their laps. I think that's a bit like me wondering why I can't seem to get a high-paying job on account of the fact that I have a gentle, reserved demeanor, can cook really well, and keep a spotless home.

 

Okay, I will agree with some of the points you have made.

 

I guess I was taking issue with that it seemed you were saying if a woman pursues a education, and a career they are neglecting the types of skills that makes a good mother and wife. Because its extremely possible to do both.

 

And I DO agree that "travel and education etc" are not the first things a many men look for in a wife. I get that. Although, those are things the happily married women in my social circle have (we met in college - so a skewed demographic).

 

So, again, moderation, and I guess we could say extreme paths include risks. The career woman who travels and concentrates on education may have a harder time of finding a husband (but again - not in my social circle). While the woman who concentrates on becoming the best "wife" material she can - is in a risky situation if she does not have a man providing for her.

[Eternal Sunshine]

If I had a daughter, I would give her the advice of locking it down while in college. That doesn't mean marrying in early 20s but starting a relationship and then traveling and having fun together before having children. The happiest couples I know have done this. At that age, there is no calculation involved, it really is about love.

 

The older people get, the more jaded they are and relationships are more like exchange of goods (I bring money, you bring youth ) and/or companionship-based without real spark. I think this is easier to accept for people that are divorced (they have at least had that love once). For myself, who wants true love at my age...yeah riiiiight :lmao:

 

That's why I have given up.

[RecentChange]

If I had a daughter, I would give her the advice of locking it down while in college. That doesn't mean marrying in early 20s but starting a relationship and then traveling and having fun together before having children. The happiest couples I know have done this. At that age, there is no calculation involved, it really is about love.

 

The older people get, the more jaded they are and relationships are more like exchange of goods (I bring money, you bring youth ) and/or companionship-based without real spark. I think this is easier to accept for people that are divorced (they have at least had that love once).

 

I agree with this - like I have mentioned a few times in this thread. College is where I met my husband, and where my friends met their for the most part. We graduated 17 years ago, and most of us are still with our spouses, in happy relationships (same is true for my brother and sister).

 

And ESPECIALLY the underlined. All this "women bring youth" and vulnerability etc, while the "men have money and assets" to catch the women....

 

Well, not when you are all youthful and broke! I don't think any of us would have accurately predicted who earns what now.

[JuneL]

 

Out of the group from college I still keep in touch with - 7 of us are married to men we met while in college. One is divorced (met in college), two are constantly single (no LTRs) and one that got married last year at the age of 39.

 

 

You might want to share the story of how the 39-yo lady met her husband, which is more relevant to this thread

[RecentChange]

You might want to share the story of how the 39-yo lady met her husband, which is more relevant to this thread

 

okay. It’s actually my 39 year old male friend. I believe his wife is about 36.

 

They met years ago at an Ivy League grad school program. He talks about how her bright personality, intelligence and passion caught his attention and he found her unforgettable.

 

Some years past, and they bumped into each other again at a professional event, and started dating.

 

Both had never been married at this point, no kids. He was now the CEO of an investment firm, and she was an accomplished professional in her field.

 

Together they are a total power couple, have a beautiful home, and a county ranch, travel extensively etc.

[Joyce Simmons]

If I had a daughter, I would give her the advice of locking it down while in college. That doesn't mean marrying in early 20s but starting a relationship and then traveling and having fun together before having children. The happiest couples I know have done this. At that age, there is no calculation involved, it really is about love.

 

The older people get, the more jaded they are and relationships are more like exchange of goods (I bring money, you bring youth ) and/or companionship-based without real spark. I think this is easier to accept for people that are divorced (they have at least had that love once). For myself, who wants true love at my age...yeah riiiiight :lmao:

 

That's why I have given up.

 

Man, I wish people would have told me this. LOCK it down while in your mid 20’s! Start dating as much as you can. I was in school at the time and didn’t take the opportunity to do that, I always thought I had plenty of time, dating pool gets smaller as you get older. Most people meet in school, the easiest way to meet singles. Then if that doesn’t happen, it’s online dating and bars for the 30 over crowd. Why didn’t people give me that advice? They were all like, focus on school and job. Yeah, right. I want to find LOVE! And that’s not something I can buy at the store.

[Happy Lemming]

I always thought I had plenty of time, dating pool gets smaller as you get older.

 

Yes... truer words have never been spoken.

 

My girlfriend looked for years and years and years. As she aged, she lowered her standards & shortened her check list to a bare minimum. And I came along.

 

She wanted a "Knight in Shining armor who rode up on a white horse", she settled for a rodent that drove up in an old white pickup.

[amaysngrace]

My daughter discovered this on her own. She was seeing how everyone was getting paired up and decided to stop focusing only on school and start dating. She is on winter break and has a date tonight. He already graduated but just last May so him being a little bit older is probably a good thing because she’s wise beyond her years.

[BettyDraper]

It’s fine to say that, but honestly, the reality is that people of all social strata and age get into relationships all the time.

 

My mom was in “the prime of her life” in the ‘60s, she may well have been Peggy Olson (from Mad Men). It was partially because of the social expectation that she get married early and start a family that she did the exact opposite. She dropped out of nursing school and got a job in Lower Manhattan. She bought a convertible (with her own money), and dated lots of men, and rejected plenty of marriage proposals. She finally met my dad in the mid-‘70s (she was a career woman in her 30s and my dad was a bachelor who had just gotten out of the military after 20 year; he’d been too busy in Korea and Vietnam to get married).<snip>

 

I am speaking in terms of evolutionary psychology.

 

Your parents' experience is an anecdote which does not disprove the realities of intimate relationships between men and women. Why do you think that wealthy men often have much younger wives who are better looking than them? It's because men are hardwired to look for beauty and youth because those are signals of fertility. Women, whether we have our own resources or not, instinctively look for men who can match our earning power or preferably exceed it. Exceptions are not rules.

 

I will concede that there are many levels to a relationship other than the most basic ones. It's just that our biology drives our reasoning and choice of partners.

Edited January 4, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Truncate quote

[Wallysbears]

Wow.

 

 

I guess my circle of friends and I are in the minority here.

 

None of us married college sweethearts.

 

In fact, I didn’t meet most of the ladies I’m friends with most closely until out of college and into our first stop on careers.

 

We all didn’t meet our now husbands until we were later in 20’s or early 30’s.

 

And are all now married with kids (and to men that were previously single, not divorced and had no children) who were all a year or so older (or more) than us.

 

We all dated...a LOT...through our college and early career days. Even got engaged a couple of us but never followed through.

 

And every one of us had a 6 figure career salary and our own “career” to fall back on if we need/want to.

[Joyce Simmons]

Why do people give that horrible advice to “focus on school and work?” Bull crap. Were they jealous of me finding love? No, don’t tell young people to focus on school! Has anyone noticed that doctors met their partners at school then they marry, have kids young, Majority of them marry in their late 20’s. If medical students had time to go on dates and surely that whole “focusing on school” speil is utterly bull.

Edited January 4, 2019 by Joyce Simmons

[Happy Lemming]

You can't turn back the clock... All you can do is move forward and lower your standards/expectations a bit.

 

Instead of trying to find a guy that checks all of your boxes, how about 75% of them. Instead of going for an "8", try a "5" or "6".

 

Just a thought...

[Eternal Sunshine]

You can't turn back the clock... All you can do is move forward and lower your standards/expectations a bit.

 

Instead of trying to find a guy that checks all of your boxes, how about 75% of them. Instead of going for an "8", try a "5" or "6".

 

Just a thought...

 

For me, even the rating scale you quote is showing how calculating dating at an older age is. My only real standards are that I want to be with someone I’m in love with. Tried lowering my standards there and I had relationships where I was utterly miserable. I would much rather be single.

[Happy Lemming]

For me, even the rating scale you quote is showing how calculating dating at an older age is. My only real standards are that I want to be with someone I’m in love with. Tried lowering my standards there and I had relationships where I was utterly miserable. I would much rather be single.

 

Sometimes its hard to get your point across or offer advice in a forum when you have to type it out, as a form of communication.

 

Introducing values to someone's appearance is more of a way to communicate my point than assigning it to an individual.

 

And I certainly don't want the OP to be miserable, but I'm guessing there is a happy middle ground that can be reached by lowering one's standards.

[amaysngrace]

Dr Phil wrote a book called Love Smart that breaks it down nicely. We all have this perfect vision of what we want but nobody is perfect so they’ll all fall short. He lays it out where it’s actually realistic to find a person you can love. I highly recommend it.

[basil67]

Why do people give that horrible advice to “focus on school and work?” Bull crap. Were they jealous of me finding love? No, don’t tell young people to focus on school! Has anyone noticed that doctors met their partners at school then they marry, have kids young, Majority of them marry in their late 20’s. If medical students had time to go on dates and surely that whole “focusing on school” speil is utterly bull.

 

The answer, as always, is balance. A balance of work, love and play.

[Mysterio]

What is 75% of what we want in a relationship?

 

For me this is what I want. The woman is Single/Childless. Lives in my city. No rush to get married or have kids with me for at least 2-3 yrs. She is close to my age so 30/40somthing.

 

W do social and recreational activities together. Our intimate style is kissing/making out making love a couple of times a week. Give space to each other.

 

If she has one kid. I guess that would be ok at the most. Not 3. I can't handle that.

[Joyce Simmons]

Are some women just man haters? I’ve been told most of my life that I don’t need a man to make me happy, bull crap! That I could do without them, this is the “advice” I’ve been listening even from my own mother, that I never need to rely on a man for money. Geez. That men don’t go no where. Focus on my job. I don’t care what people say, everyone needs human affection, intimacy! Why do some women sabotage what we want with men? We want love

[amaysngrace]

You don’t need a man to make you happy. And a man doesn’t need a woman either because you should be a source of your own happiness.

 

Relying on someone to complete you is taking the easy way out rather than doing the hard work of discovering and developing self-love.

 

It’s no wonder why you’re struggling. You keep giving your power away and placing your heart in the hands of men asking them to be your sole source of happiness. That’s a huge responsibility you’re asking of them, whether you realize it or not.

 

Happiness (contentment really) comes from within.