Attraction to jerks?

[Logo]

I'm just floating a theory here. Sometimes I see women drawn to men who treat them poorly.

 

I realize that sometimes self-esteem can be the reason, sometimes the "bad boy" appeal plays a role.

 

But is it possible that some women are simply attracted to jerks because they think that the jerks are being honest, that they're not hiding anything, they're being themselves?

 

As opposed to the nice gentleman who might treat that woman better and with the respect she deserves, but she might think he's just a charmer with an agenda. He's trying to shmooz me and who knows what's behind that fake act?

Think of it as the-devil-you-know logic.

 

Or does it have more to do with the perception of power or the false perception that mistreatment is part of that so-called alpha male personality?

 

Again, it's just a theory I was wondering about.

 

Declaimer: I firmly believe that women should be treated with respect and that no woman should put up with a man who treats her badly or disrespects her. No man has the right to treat a woman badly either if his twisted logic tells him that women like to be treated that way.

[basil67]

I’ve ver been attracted to jerks, so I can only guess. But there’s also the option that her dad treated Her mum like rubbish and she knows no different.

 

At any rate, there’s no ‘one size fits all’ answer

[elaine567]

I think there are many reasons women put up with jerks, but none of them are particularly healthy.

 

I think society tends to favour the jerk.

Laddish behaviour is generally applauded and the men in power, the heroes, the role models, the celebrities, are often cads around women and we(gen) nod approval or turn a blind eye.

 

The world many women grow up in is full of pointers to say "men are just men" and women have to put up with it, make the best of it, try to fix him, mother him, look after him, but it mostly just boils down to pandering to him.

It is no surprise that some women when faced with a jerk, do not run a mile, she goes "Well such is my lot...it could be worse..."

[stillafool]

It's usually that these jerks are good in bed which is hard for women to find and when they do they damn near put up with anything to keep the good sex.

 

I really don't think these women have low self esteem at all but actually high self esteem. To be the one to capture the heart of the bad boy validates her.

Edited January 3, 2019 by stillafool

[Wallysbears]

I find women who tolerate jerks long term have either self esteem, codependency or other issues that keeps them from having healthy relationships.

[Geraltt]

I'm just floating a theory here. Sometimes I see women drawn to men who treat them poorly...

 

Or does it have more to do with the perception of power or the false perception that mistreatment is part of that so-called alpha male personality?

 

Extremely common and undeniable.

 

Have a cruise through these videos:

 

(12 minutes)

 

Don't like Dr Peterson? Fine. Then have a look through this:

 

(6 minutes)

 

 

Then there's this from Psychology Today: Why Do Women Fall for Bad Boys?

[PRW]

There are a bazillion videos on YouTube concerning this issue. Most all of them are pretty accurate because this really in not a complicated issue. Here's three of them I could hunt down in just a few minutes from the same YouTube channel. But they are everywhere.

 

 

 

 

[edgygirl]

Never had. I only like men who treat me well.

 

But I do have an aversion to betas and men who behave like doormats... for some reason these men LOVE me, probably my strong personality.

[preraph]

I hate to see anyone stay with anyone who treats them badly and idealistic thinking combined with being weak is usually the reason. Maybe jerks is what they grew up with, so that's what they're used to and know how to relate to.

 

Women aren't the only ones who do it. If a guy can have sex with a hot looking woman, I've seen them just not care what they act like or what their ethics are or anything. Because that's their priority. Not so with women.

 

I would also suggest that sometimes women who feel they MUST be with someone end up with jerks because they haven't found anyone interested in them who isn't one that they hold any physical attraction for.

[Mr. Lucky]

Think of it as the-devil-you-know logic.

 

When I struggled with something growing up, my Mom used to tell me "you get what you think you deserve".

 

So whether it's esteem, cultural, lifestyle or simple laziness, internalized low expectations tend to be self-fulfilling. This trait is entirely fixable, men or women, if one is willing to do the work.

 

Logo, your theories seem like rationalization. I'd be less concerned about charmers and alphas and more focused on my own attitude and mentality...

 

Mr. Lucky

[PRW]

But I do have an aversion to betas and men who behave like doormats... for some reason these men LOVE me, probably my strong personality.

Yep.

They are looking for a Mommy, and Mommy has to set the rules and tell them what to do.

[William]

Good morning,

 

Topic check:

 

I'm just floating a theory here. Sometimes I see women drawn to men who treat them poorly.

If members would like to start a topic discussing why and how men are attracted to women who treat them poorly and forward theories on that, threads are unlimited and free to start. Thanks!

[PRW]

I'm only about half way through this one as I'm writing this but it seems pretty good so far.

 

Why girls love a bad boy! (then complain there's no good men left)

 

Just as a side note, "bad boys" are not automatically an Alpha. Maybe they might be, but they might not be. The whole bad boy persona may just be an over compensation for their insecurities. They may also be a Sigma type, and the Alpha type often gets wrongly blamed when it is really the Sigma that is the guilty one. Here is the Wiki definitions comparing Alpha to Sigma:

Alpha: You are confident and your own man. You do your own thing and have complete confidence in everything you do. You have your self doubts, but you don't let it cloud your judgment and logic. You are well liked by almost everyone, and you just have an easy charm and swagger about your presence. Women are drawn to your charisma and presence. You enjoy being social and having lots of people around. You are a natural leader

 

Sigma: You are a manipulative mastermind. You are a spider waiting to lay your trap. You possess a cunning, intuitive mind and can sway people to your will. You don't have the casual swagger of the alpha or the omega but you do have a clever presence about you and people tend to be both wary and respect you for that. You can often be even more powerful than the alpha or the omega male in social situations due to your ability to persuade and manipulate them. You are neither a follower or a leader but rather a wild card.

[Kitty Tantrum]

I think the fact that modern courtship tends to happen at least initially in isolation plays into this. "Dating" puts men and women alone together to asses each other one-on-one rather than in the context of a cohesive community.

 

Thus, a woman's initial assessment of a man is all about how he treats her and behaves around her - rather than on where he fits into the hierarchy of other men in her life. A man's jerkish tendencies might come across as "alpha" because they put him at the top of this isolated two-person social hierarchy - when in reality, if you put that guy in a more traditional setting where he has to pass muster with her family or other male community members... he might immediately be revealed as a weak, manipulative chump by comparison.

 

I've never been attracted to the "bad boy" persona, but I have mistaken selfish/manipulative tendencies for genuine confidence, competence, etc. - prior to recognizing how that behavior actually stacked up against other MEN. I might look up to a man initially because he's established positional authority relative to ME... but that doesn't hold up when I begin to realize "if he treated/spoke to my FATHER this way, he'd be running out of the room crying with his tail between his legs."

 

But it's not always easy to recognize that when you're already in full-on "but I loooove hiiiim!" mode.

[PRW]

Thus, a woman's initial assessment of a man is all about how he treats her and behaves around her - rather than on where he fits into the hierarchy of other men in her life. A man's jerkish tendencies might come across as "alpha" because they put him at the top of this isolated two-person social hierarchy - when in reality, if you put that guy in a more traditional setting where he has to pass muster with her family or other male community members... he might immediately be revealed as a weak, manipulative chump by comparison.

 

I've never been attracted to the "bad boy" persona, but I have mistaken selfish/manipulative tendencies for genuine confidence, competence, etc. - prior to recognizing how that behavior actually stacked up against other MEN. I might look up to a man initially because he's established positional authority relative to ME... but that doesn't hold up when I begin to realize "if he treated/spoke to my FATHER this way, he'd be running out of the room crying with his tail between his legs."

Very good points.

[basil67]

I work with the public in a role which can at times be similar to that of a social worker. During the course of my work, I met a guy who immediately gave off 'domestic abuse' vibes. It was a feeling of malevolence, control, and of anger with a lid on. I've never felt it before, but it was unmistakable. Yet this man has a girlfriend and my suspicions about him were confirmed by another source.

 

For the life of me, I cannot fathom the attraction to jerks.

[losangelena]

* Raises hand *

 

Can we please define what “jerk” means in this context?

 

Do you mean an abusive man, or one who’s simply obnoxious?

[Geraltt]

I work with the public in a role which can at times be similar to that of a social worker. During the course of my work, I met a guy who immediately gave off 'domestic abuse' vibes. It was a feeling of malevolence, control, and of anger with a lid on. I've never felt it before, but it was unmistakable. Yet this man has a girlfriend and my suspicions about him were confirmed by another source.

 

For the life of me, I cannot fathom the attraction to jerks.

In another thread I mentioned about a friend's son who has fallen into a far-right extremist group. The guy is bad news, in personification (the son, not the father).

 

And women rush to him like iron filings to a magnet.

 

These aren't "loser" women or women with low self-esteem. We're not talking about addicts or strippers or prostitutes or anything like that. These are rational, thoughtful, attractive women who've got their stuff together. The fellow's current fling is a PhD candidate with a background in substance abuse recovery. A delightful, thoughtful, articulate woman. What she sees in him, I just don't get.

 

And it's a pattern that I've seen repeatedly in my nearly-60-years on the planet.

 

Funnily enough, in my experience, it's the women who insist, "Oh, I'd NEVER date a jerk or someone who treats me badly" who are precisely the ones that fall for this sort of fellow. Perhaps it's the potential danger, perhaps it's the "edge", perhaps it's something else. But it seems to be something deep in the human psyche, insistent and undeniable. I won't pretend to know what it is, but it's very real.

[elaine567]

In another thread I mentioned about a friend's son who has fallen into a far-right extremist group. The guy is bad news, in personification (the son, not the father).

 

And women rush to him like iron filings to a magnet.

 

These aren't "loser" women or women with low self-esteem. We're not talking about addicts or strippers or prostitutes or anything like that. These are rational, thoughtful, attractive women who've got their stuff together. The fellow's current fling is a PhD candidate with a background in substance abuse recovery. A delightful, thoughtful, articulate woman. What she sees in him, I just don't get.

.

I guess woman can be far right extremists too...