Women who aren't attracted to jerks?

[preraph]

I guess I'm using 'jerk' in the sense that I interpret it. And as Preraph pointed out, jerk does mean something different to everyone. To me, it would be best summed up as a d*ck head. But is that open to dispute too?

 

What does blowing smoke up someone's ass mean?

 

I'm laughing so hard right now. Yes I'm afraid both those terms are open to interpretation. I mean we frequently see on here struggling guys who think every guy who isn't struggling is a jerk. it would probably be hard to get a consensus that one certain type of guy was a jerk and everyone agree on it. Like when I just think of the word jerk I think of that guy I know who says nasty things and then says he's only joking and tries to make you bad for not being able to take a joke. To me that's a classic jerk.

 

And then there are more harmful jerks who are abusive on some level and overly possessive or jealous, dictators.

And then there's guys who just don't treat women fairly because they have their own agenda which is convenient sex and we'll just lie lie lie to get it. They're very common at a certain age.

 

So yes there's jerks of all types.

 

Blowing smoke is basically gaslighting on lying and trying to fool the woman.

[basil67]

Ha yes - totally agree with you on the "just joking" about saying nasty things. The guy who's rude to waitstaff is a jerk too.

[amaysngrace]

What’s so hard to understand about treating people the way you want to be treated? I think jerks must want to be treated like ****.

[littleblackheart]

I don't particularly like 'jerks' but married one anyway.

 

He pretended to be a 'good guy' long enough (ie 4 years) to get me hooked. I was a very easy prey back then - inexperienced and naive, no LTRs prior to him. But mainly he competely lied to me on everything and anything, from his upbringing to his grades to his political allegiances to his past relationships...I didn't see it coming at all, not helped by the fact that I'm an Aspie.

 

When we married he relaxed into his true self, that is a gaslighter in chief and mental/emotional abuser. It took me 4 years to see what he was like, and another 3 years of coming and goings and 2 kids to leave for good.

 

I'm not dyfunctional, I'm not really insecure, I have no residual childhood issues despite fairly dysfunctional parents and I'd really have liked nothing better than to settle down with a 'good guy'. All my friends are really good people, most of them are married to good partners for them so based on ebidence from real life, people prefer to match up with 'good' people in general.

 

Unfortunately I can't really trust my 'man-picker' because of the Asperger's and my comfort zone really is being single; I can't help but think how much easier it would if people came with clear instructions...

[basil67]

What’s so hard to understand about treating people the way you want to be treated? I think jerks must want to be treated like ****.

 

Not excusing jerks, but one of the problems with treating others how we want to be treated is that we don't always want the same thing. Treating others how they want to be treated is a better way to do it.

[Wallysbears]

The type of guy that I was attracted to has changed considerably over the years.

 

Teenager liked one type.

College student another.

Fresh college grad another.

 

As I've gotten older, I've 'honed in' (I suppose?) on the type of man I truly wanted in my life as a partner/husband/father to kid.

 

And dating various types and then examining the "why" helped me to make sure that when I did eventually settle down, I was using a good "picker"

[Kitty Tantrum]

I've never been attracted to jerks.

 

That being said... I knew my ex-husband for six plus years before we married. His sister was (actually still is) my best friend friend since I was 13. I was close with his whole family. There were stretches where I'd spend more time at their house than my own. For the longest time, he seemed pretty wonderful. Respectful, kind, treated his mother well, got on well with most everyone as far as I could see. I don't think I ever saw him be mean to anybody. He was a clean-cut, mild-mannered, kinda nerdy Mormon boy with an easy smile who gave great hugs. My family liked him, too.

 

But BOY was he mean to me. One of the things that's pretty well burned into my memory is sometime in the second year of our marriage, I came home from work and just felt like crap and wanted him to lie down with me and hold me for a bit. I didn't want to complain or anything, I just wanted to cuddle - which he'd always liked to do. He gave me no more than a minute or two, then got up. I asked him to stay a while longer, and he got really annoyed and refused, saying I had to get used to dealing with things without him because he couldn't ALWAYS be there to comfort me every time (this was the first - and last - time I'd ever asked him to do this). We went in circles a little bit with me begging and pleading and crying, and him eventually standing in the door of our bedroom yelling and berating me for needing him.

 

Oof. In retrospect, that was my first glaring indication that he had no patience for me having needs outside of his own.

 

He's earned the "jerk" label many times over since. But I don't think he's ever been a jerk like that to anybody else. Everyone was shocked when I eventually left him, because nobody else ever saw that side of him.

 

Edit to add: by contrast, my fiancé has been called an a-hole by lots of people including himself - presumably because he doesn't mold his behavior or withhold his opinions to get in anyone's good graces - and he treats me like some kinda precious delicate flower by comparison.

Edited January 4, 2019 by Kitty Tantrum

[thefooloftheyear]

oo.

 

But BOY was he mean to me. One of the things that's pretty well burned into my memory is sometime in the second year of our marriage, I came home from work and just felt like crap and wanted him to lie down with me and hold me for a bit. I didn't want to complain or anything, I just wanted to cuddle - which he'd always liked to do. He gave me no more than a minute or two, then got up. I asked him to stay a while longer, and he got really annoyed and refused, saying I had to get used to dealing with things without him because he couldn't ALWAYS be there to comfort me every time (this was the first - and last - time I'd ever asked him to do this). We went in circles a little bit with me begging and pleading and crying, and him eventually standing in the door of our bedroom yelling and berating me for needing him.

 

.

 

See...I don't see this as behavior of a jerk...It's exhausting for a grown man to have to put up with that from a grown woman...I couldn't live with a woman like that...No offense....

 

Heck, I don't think my daughter ever needed that type of stuff when she was 3 years old..

 

TFY

[Kitty Tantrum]

You couldn't put up with being asked to cuddle for a little while if your partner had a bad day? That's all I asked for. I'd have been happy with 10-15 minutes.

 

He was unemployed. I was paying all of the bills. He was playing on his computer when I got home and probably had been all day. A few minutes of cuddling didn't seem like an unreasonable thing to ask.

[thefooloftheyear]

You couldn't put up with being asked to cuddle for a little while if your partner had a bad day? That's all I asked for. I'd have been happy with 10-15 minutes.

 

He was unemployed. I was paying all of the bills. He was playing on his computer when I got home and probably had been all day. A few minutes of cuddling didn't seem like an unreasonable thing to ask.

 

It would be unfair of me to judge what you think is appropriate for a given situation...I don't want to do that...I can only say that I deal with a lot of adversity and don't expect anything for it...In turn, id like my partner to be of the same make up...Not everyone is..End of story..

 

It's like the thread where the girl puked in the guys bed...Several posters said it was way wrong that the guy got upset over it..He should have just consoled her and helped her clean up the mess...I don't see why a guy would be judged for getting pissed off over it, It's something a lot of people would be angry over...even for just the moment..

 

Point is, a jerk or a-hole or that type of behavior can be interpreted differently by different people..

 

TFY

[Fair]

[M]ost people don't generally consciously decide to date someone because they know they're going to be treated badly. Most of us want a decent, solid, dependable good partner. Period.

Edited January 4, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Topical content

[Kitty Tantrum]

I can only say that I deal with a lot of adversity and don't expect anything for it...In turn, id like my partner to be of the same make up...Not everyone is.

 

Ah, but I AM. I was pretty much doing everything. Full time job, all of the cooking, all of the cleaning, all of the household paperwork/money management/bill paying/tax filing/etc. And still pretty much waiting on him hand and foot. He had no job, no income, the only "job" he had at home was taking the trash out, and we had no children at the time.

 

The vast majority of the time was me dealing with whatever issues I had quietly and introspectively, and I was the one doling out comfort in the form of backrubs, footrubs, lengthy full-body massages, listening to him complain about whatever - any time he requested and then some.

 

The ONE TIME I asked him for a small bit of reciprocation, he balked - and then lost it and blew up at me when I tried to ask why he was so unwilling and why he was treating me like I was needy when this was the first time I'd asked for something like that in over a year of being married (whereas he frequently made similar requests of me).

 

And that's just one of many examples of his behavior that more or less added up to an attitude of "I need you to take care of me, but YOU'RE not allowed to need ME for anything."

 

I'm sure there were red flags that I missed earlier on. I was naive and inexperienced. But I'm still floored by how poorly he treated me, compared to how nice he seemed to be to everyone else. And how nice he was to me until after we were married.

[preraph]

Ha yes - totally agree with you on the "just joking" about saying nasty things. The guy who's rude to waitstaff is a jerk too.

 

Oh, yeah, I wouldn't put up with that for a minute. I can be a bear if crossed, but I am beloved by wait staff at all my favorite places! I quit taking this girlfriend of mine (new girlfriend) to my favorite place because she was 50 and saying suggestive things to the cute waiter. I went back and apologized and tipped him over and over again to make up for it. Ugh.

[preraph]

I don't particularly like 'jerks' but married one anyway.

 

He pretended to be a 'good guy' long enough (ie 4 years) to get me hooked. I was a very easy prey back then - inexperienced and naive, no LTRs prior to him. But mainly he competely lied to me on everything and anything, from his upbringing to his grades to his political allegiances to his past relationships...I didn't see it coming at all, not helped by the fact that I'm an Aspie.

 

When we married he relaxed into his true self, that is a gaslighter in chief and mental/emotional abuser. It took me 4 years to see what he was like, and another 3 years of coming and goings and 2 kids to leave for good.

 

I'm not dyfunctional, I'm not really insecure, I have no residual childhood issues despite fairly dysfunctional parents and I'd really have liked nothing better than to settle down with a 'good guy'. All my friends are really good people, most of them are married to good partners for them so based on ebidence from real life, people prefer to match up with 'good' people in general.

 

Unfortunately I can't really trust my 'man-picker' because of the Asperger's and my comfort zone really is being single; I can't help but think how much easier it would if people came with clear instructions...

 

I'm so sorry that happened to you. So you know, there's plenty of women who get fooled. Women, especially young ones or inexperienced ones, are just always thinking love will change them and giving them the benefit of the doubt and have so much empathy they make excuses for them (bad upbringing), but it's not reason to stay with one. Best thing that could happen to them is have consequences to their bad acts.

[amaysngrace]

I quit taking this girlfriend of mine (new girlfriend) to my favorite place because she was 50 and saying suggestive things to the cute waiter. I went back and apologized and tipped him over and over again to make up for it. Ugh.

 

She sounds like a jerk.

[preraph]

See...I don't see this as behavior of a jerk...It's exhausting for a grown man to have to put up with that from a grown woman...I couldn't live with a woman like that...No offense....

 

Heck, I don't think my daughter ever needed that type of stuff when she was 3 years old..

 

TFY

 

Well, if it only happens at times you feel bad or are down, I think someone ought to have enough empathy to do it without being asked, really. Now, if it happens on the regular, wanting to kind of be a big baby all the time, that is different, but that's not what she said, though she might have those leanings for all I know.

 

I will just add that what's the best thing for that is really dogs.....and even cats.

[preraph]

It would be unfair of me to judge what you think is appropriate for a given situation...I don't want to do that...I can only say that I deal with a lot of adversity and don't expect anything for it...In turn, id like my partner to be of the same make up...Not everyone is..End of story..

 

It's like the thread where the girl puked in the guys bed...Several posters said it was way wrong that the guy got upset over it..He should have just consoled her and helped her clean up the mess...I don't see why a guy would be judged for getting pissed off over it, It's something a lot of people would be angry over...even for just the moment..

 

Point is, a jerk or a-hole or that type of behavior can be interpreted differently by different people..

 

TFY

 

Again, on the puking, I'd say if it's a rare event, you act mature and deal with it, help her gather up the sheets and take them to the washing machine or whatever. If, however, she does this every Saturday night, kick her butt out.

[thefooloftheyear]

Well, if it only happens at times you feel bad or are down, I think someone ought to have enough empathy to do it without being asked, really. Now, if it happens on the regular, wanting to kind of be a big baby all the time, that is different, but that's not what she said, though she might have those leanings for all I know.

 

I will just add that what's the best thing for that is really dogs.....and even cats.

 

I don't want to split hairs, nor give the impression that I am a total douche, just that I really don't think a tough day at work should be something someone needs consoling and cuddling for...I dunno...That would make me feel weird or something...

 

Now, a car wreck, someone died, had to put the dog down....another story...

 

In some cases, it also boils down to what your previous life experiences have been...If everything was pretty rosy, then you are more likely to get emotional over what another person who had it much harder would think is trivial..

 

TFY

[somanymistakes]

What's a jerk, though? I've seen guys insist up-and-down that the next guy I'm dating is a jerk and I only like him because he's a jerk... when he's a pacifist vegetarian hippie.

 

I mean, hippies CAN be jerks. But sometimes guys are so bought into this 'women like bad boys' thing that they are incapable of seeing their own potential 'bad boy' qualities and desperate to call others 'bad boys'. You can find seemingly-bad qualities in anyone, if you're trying to find some reason to show that a person SHOULDN'T date them and should totally date you instead. "Ugh, you only like him because he's BAD for you! You should date ME, I'm such a NICE GUY, but you're too stupid to understand that!"

 

Can I say that I've never dated anyone with some potentially jerk-like qualities? Of course not. But being a jerk to me isn't going to make me like you better.

[Kitty Tantrum]

I don't mind splitting hairs, so here you go:

 

Again, I was carrying the entire household. Gosh-darned near everything, for months. Financially, domestically, administratively, the whole nine yards. While he played around. And I took care of him and encouraged him and did everything I could to support him figuring that it was a bump in the road and we would get over it.

 

This was quite a lot more than having "a bad day at work." This was months of being the only adult in the house, and I didn't even nag him or ride him about it, I just told him I was feeling down and wanted to be held. Just for him to be there as a physical grounding point in my life. For the first time, one single time, after bearing my share of the practical burdens AND most of his with a smile on my face for a gosh-darned long time.

 

He smacked me down for asking one tiny favor, he denied me the few minutes of physical intimacy I sought, after months of providing for his every need, want, and whim every single day in recent history.

 

I never, ever denied him.

 

Jerk jerk jerkity jerk.

[loversquarrel]

Ah, but I AM. I was pretty much doing everything. Full time job, all of the cooking, all of the cleaning, all of the household paperwork/money management/bill paying/tax filing/etc. And still pretty much waiting on him hand and foot. He had no job, no income, the only "job" he had at home was taking the trash out, and we had no children at the time.

 

The vast majority of the time was me dealing with whatever issues I had quietly and introspectively, and I was the one doling out comfort in the form of backrubs, footrubs, lengthy full-body massages, listening to him complain about whatever - any time he requested and then some.

 

The ONE TIME I asked him for a small bit of reciprocation, he balked - and then lost it and blew up at me when I tried to ask why he was so unwilling and why he was treating me like I was needy when this was the first time I'd asked for something like that in over a year of being married (whereas he frequently made similar requests of me).

 

And that's just one of many examples of his behavior that more or less added up to an attitude of "I need you to take care of me, but YOU'RE not allowed to need ME for anything."

 

I'm sure there were red flags that I missed earlier on. I was naive and inexperienced. But I'm still floored by how poorly he treated me, compared to how nice he seemed to be to everyone else. And how nice he was to me until after we were married.

 

How could you not see the red flags with this one??? Seems they would be impossible to miss. We're you trying to change him? Because if you were that's a jerk move in itself. Not saying you did, just playing devils advocate, and I'm quite sure some will think I'm a jerk for it ?

[littleblackheart]

I'm so sorry that happened to you. So you know, there's plenty of women who get fooled. Women, especially young ones or inexperienced ones, are just always thinking love will change them and giving them the benefit of the doubt and have so much empathy they make excuses for them (bad upbringing), but it's not reason to stay with one. Best thing that could happen to them is have consequences to their bad acts.

 

 

Thank you. Yes, I think you're right about having too much empathy and somehow thinking that being the best wife I could be would be enough. Not meant to be, unfortunately. I gained 2 gorgeous kids out of it though, so it's not all bad .

 

I know there are a ton of 'good' men - colleagues, bosses, friends, family, etc. I actually think there are more good people than there are 'jerks'. I don't really believe that really dysfunctional relationships are that common, and it can be difficult sometimes to deal with all the ready-made assumptions about how a normally completely rational, secure person (men too) could get roped into these nefarious relationships and made to feel.guilty for it.

 

Actual *******s exist - not incompatible partners; actual, real, bad *******s. No one in their right mind would choose to be with someone like that...

[Kitty Tantrum]

How could you not see the red flags with this one??? Seems they would be impossible to miss. We're you trying to change him? Because if you were that's a jerk move in itself. Not saying you did, just playing devils advocate, and I'm quite sure some will think I'm a jerk for it

 

I was young and naive and took him at his word in our marriage negotiations, and put a lot of trust in him based on how long I had known him and the sort of behavior I had seen previously. We started out on the "right" track and when things went south (he lost his job, wouldn't get another one), it was easy to accept for a while that he was legitimately struggling but would pull through. We were both young with very little previous life experience and he kept telling me that he was serious about providing for his family and he just needed to figure out the right direction.

 

I've shared bits of my story here in other threads - in a nutshell, he hadn't wanted to go through with marrying me in the first place, but his family pressured him into it (the story as he told it to me four years after we married).

 

I was trying to help him be the man he kept telling me over and over that he wanted to be. It did take me a long time to figure out that he wasn't struggling, he was LYING. In fact I didn't really put that together until after he told me that he hadn't actually been in love or wanted to get married.

 

SOOOO... because I am stupid and gullible.

 

Edit: and I'm sure feeling trapped in a situation he didn't really want to get into played a part in how he treated me - but that was none of my doing, that information was deliberately withheld from me and does not retroactively justify his behavior toward me.

Edited January 4, 2019 by Kitty Tantrum

[preraph]

She sounds like a jerk.

 

Sweet lady overall, but ex-stripper and still had to try to get validated and see if she still had it (she didn't). She was happily married for 20 years or something like that. One of her ex-clients still took her to basketball games and her husband didn't care. Her husband started out a "courtesy client," in other words, someone doing business with him set them up and they hit it off. Strange. He seemed nice enough.

[elaine567]

What's a jerk, though? I've seen guys insist up-and-down that the next guy I'm dating is a jerk and I only like him because he's a jerk... when he's a pacifist vegetarian hippie.

 

I mean, hippies CAN be jerks. But sometimes guys are so bought into this 'women like bad boys' thing that they are incapable of seeing their own potential 'bad boy' qualities and desperate to call others 'bad boys'. You can find seemingly-bad qualities in anyone, if you're trying to find some reason to show that a person SHOULDN'T date them and should totally date you instead. "Ugh, you only like him because he's BAD for you! You should date ME, I'm such a NICE GUY, but you're too stupid to understand that!"

 

Can I say that I've never dated anyone with some potentially jerk-like qualities? Of course not. But being a jerk to me isn't going to make me like you better.

 

 

The "bad boys" that research is often based upon are the Dark Triad guys, so not your regular, everyday "jerk"

Those guys score high in narcissistic, psychopathic and Macvhiavellian traits.

Jonason and Webster’s Dirty Dozen scale can give you a quick way to spot the Dark Triad individual in your midst. Rate each item on a 7-point scale as you think it applies to this person. Of course, you can also rate yourself on these qualities to see how you measure up:

1. I tend to manipulate others to get my way.
   
2. I tend to lack remorse.
   
3. I tend to want others to admire me.
   
4. I tend to be unconcerned with the morality of my actions.
   
5. I have used deceit or lied to get my way.
   
6. I tend to be callous or insensitive.
   
7. I have used flattery to get my way.
   
8. I tend to seek prestige or status.
   
9. I tend to be cynical.
   
10. I tend to exploit others toward my own end.
    
11. I tend to expect special favors from others.
    
12. I want others to pay attention to me.
    

The total score can range from 12 to 84, but you can also break down the scales into the three traits as follows: Machiavellianism= 1, 5, 7, 10; Psychopathy= 2, 4, 6, 9; Narcissism= 3, 8, 11, 12.