Is this a normal behaviour in office space?

[Plutarh]

Hello,

 

I work in a office with both male and female coworkers aged from 30 y.o. to 60 y.o. During last months I've seen a strange behaviour at one my male colleagues.

 

He is 46 y.o. and divorced after a 2 years marriage with no kids. As I know from his stories he is a player, that kind of man who can't stay only with one woman. He cheated on his wife and when he was young he has even been with married females. For him all the woman are built for one thing and he's going mad for blondes. You can imagine he even dated and had sex with a young masseuse who met in a salon. She visits him regularly and they have sex, he offers her some financial benefits.

 

That's the generally portrait of that colleague. But what I found inappropriate is his behaviour in the work place regarding some of our female co-workers and especially two of them (one of those two I consider to be my friend because I've worked for almost 10 years with her and she is very professional - I'm 30 y.o. she is 52 y.o., both married, don't think at anything ).

 

What's wrong with that behaviour of my co-woker? Generally when a female is granting him some attention (usually talk) and this happens a few days, next time he starts to call her "kitty" or "little kitty".

 

He started to talk on the intranet messenger with my younger colleague (one of those two I'm referring). She's a 32 y.o. blonde, good looking, no relationship. What did he wrote to her? He said she looks gorgeous and when he saw her in our office he hardly calm down not to go over the desk to kiss her . My young female co-worker told me this story being a little embarrassed. He told me he has a crush on her and she noticed that. But she's not interested in him. She considers him having a childish behaviour and being immature for his 46 y.o. She's not giving him special attention in order to keep him alone from her. Let's say in this situation there is no problem being two free people despite the age difference and despite using the office messenger for this love sentences.

 

The problem is his behaviour regarding my 52 y.o. colleague. She's a mature married woman, very talkative, and very serious woman. My co-worker didn't interfere so much with her in the past, maybe only at the smokers room. During last spring that situation changed. For business purposes she needed some information from him. And know it comes the inappropriate behaviour:

1) When they meet on the corridors of the building office he started to call her "kitty" or "little kitty". She had no reaction. She didn't tell him to stop calling her this way.

2) A few times he took her hand to kiss it despite seeing her for a dozen of times that day. Maybe you'll say that is an obsolete gentlemen act but I think it can be regarded like this when you first meet a person in your life, or when you see a person for the first time on that day, or when the female is offering her hand (not grabbing her hand for kiss), or when you are kissing the hand of the other female colleagues. As I remember he did the same to one of our female colleague (a 37 y.o. blonde) at the coffee shop in other day.

2) One time in the morning when he entered the building she told him "good morning" and that he has a sleepy face and his very inappropriate reaction was to kiss her on the cheek (wtf?).

3) Other time when they talked about little daily things he hugged her and touched her cheek with his cheek. (wtf?)

4) He told me that he replied to one of her professional e-mails with "thank you, my love" (using the office e-mail network).

 

Considering strange his behaviour my young 32 y.o. female colleague asked me: did he knows that our 52 y.o. colleague is married? So another person, a female, who thinks his behaviour is inappropriate.

 

When he enters her room office, where she is with other mature male and female co-workers (only two colleagues in their thirties in that room) he salute all of them and he's behaving normal. Because of that my 52 y.o. female colleague told him one time on the corridor that he has a strange behaviour (over - attentive and no professional on the corridor and distant in the office room). What was his reaction? After an hour he entered her office room, said a loud hello, take a seat near her and started talking with others disturbing her from work (she stand up and leaved the room letting him there to talk with others). Here I think it was her mistake because of the dialogue on the corridor. From that time she avoided this man as much as possible.

 

What do you think about this behaviour of our 46 y.o. male colleague?

I don't want him to make trouble in the marriage of my 52 y.o. female colleague, or to start rumors over her because of this man's stupid inappropriate behaviour. And I think she made a mistake, not knowing his past and what he thinks about females, when he granted him attention.

 

I hope I didn't annoyed you with that story. Thank you for your opinions!

[d0nnivain]

No this guy's behavior is not appropriate. But all you can do is encourage the two women who are currently receiving attention from him to tell him to stop & that they should report him to HR if he doesn't.

 

At best if you hear him call somebody "kitty" or "little kitty" say out loud that such endearments have no place at work & that you find them offensive. It doesn't matter that they weren't directed at you, if you are forced to endure them at work, you are being subject to a hostile work environment. That doesn't mean you can sue or anything but it should be enough leverage to stop the bad behavior.

[Geraltt]

No this guy's behavior is not appropriate. But all you can do is encourage the two women who are currently receiving attention from him to tell him to stop & that they should report him to HR if he doesn't.

You had me up until the HR reference. HR is not your friend. HR is where non-professionals go to pretend they are important. This fellow has probably had to deal with HR before on this issue or something similar and has found their sanctions to be, at best, ineffective.

 

But more to the point, clearly, this dude is absolutely out of line.

 

The worst thing these women can do it ignore his behaviour. That's tacit approval, and it won't stop him.

 

They need to gather up their courage and tell him, directly, clearly, and without equivocation, that his attention is unwarranted and unwanted.

 

"Do NOT refer to me as 'kitty' or 'little kitty' ever again. Just don't. Am I making myself clear?" (Obviously they'd have to use their own words but something like this leave zero room for interpretation or misunderstanding.)

 

As for the reference to the inter-office messenger system, that simply shows that he's an idiot. All those conversations go through a central server, and any IT person worth his/her salt can dig through them without much trouble. In this era of #metoo, for better or worse, messages about how hot a person is and whatnot are firing offences.

 

Is it possible for the women in question to block his inter-office messenger account? If not, a strong response is required: not through messenger, but face-to-face. "Do NOT send me messages like that anymore. Unless it's directly related to business, do not message me at all. Am I making myself clear?"

 

This will, undoubtedly, take some courage on part of the women in question, but they'll be better off for it.

[d0nnivain]

I certainly don't think HR will help. It's just somebody that has to be notified as a precursor to taking other action.

 

 

Anybody who is confronted with a guy like this in their work place is best served by sticking up for themselves. The failure to say No, Stop! does give creeps like him tacit permission to continue

[Plutarh]

My 52 y.o. co-worker in one situation was checking her messeges on the phone. We wanted an information and she taught it could find it in a message. I was near her. She saw a conversation from last spring from this guy, opened it and there were replies with "little kitty". I was wondering what if her husband could see those messeges. I think will not feel good poor guy.

 

I've asked her, knowing she's a lady, how she accepted to be called "little kitty" by a guy not her husband. She said she needed his collaboration for business purposes. . Such a stupid answer.

 

Another time I've worked with her afterhours. We need an information and she asked me to call this guy. I've called him and after he offered us the answer he asked to pass her on the phone. He told her that for that information she has to cook him a pie.

 

Working with this guy at his desk for 3-4 times she started to tell him about her personal life (past job, her husband working in other country etc). This guy's conclusion after the discussion: she's single like me . How do you qualify that a conclusion?

Edited January 8, 2019 by Plutarh

[Geraltt]

Well, it's very possible that these women actually like the attention they're getting from this creep. Stranger things have happened.

 

One thing I'm a bit puzzled about, Plutarh. Why is this any of your business? No offence, just wondering.

[Plutarh]

Your right: it's not my business. I was wondering only if such a behaviour its normal at the work place. And the other point is that I don't want this new guy to affect my colleague's life and our work enviroment in the office. That's it. Your answers confirms I'm right regarding this guy's behaviour. Thank you!

[Wallysbears]

This behavior is not normal in a workplace. No.

[losangelena]

No, it is absolutely NOT normal workplace behavior. If this man worked where I worked, he would be fired in short order. Does your company have a code of conduct of some sort?

[Plutarh]

Yes, there is an Ethical Code of the Company. But he not even read it, what to say about conforming to it.

Another curious behaviour of that guy: he added as a friend on a social network a young girl from another department. She accepted the add. The conclusion of that guy: he is iressitible. He not even know in person that girl.

Another time a lady from other department who is 40 y.o. asked him on intern messenger something job related (previously they have been together at a meeting). He told me that he invited her out for a coffee but she rejected being married.

That's not strange behaviour?

[Geraltt]

That's not strange behaviour?

It's all strange behaviour.

 

And, from the sounds of it, this strange behaviour is being tolerated - even welcomed - by at least some of the women in question.

 

The evidence?

Another curious behaviour of that guy: he added as a friend on a social network a young girl from another department. She accepted the add.

And Ethical Codes of Conduct are not worth the paper they're written on.

[losangelena]

I don’t agree. If the company actually enforces what’s written on the code of conduct, it can be quite effective. I dunno, maybe I work at a strange company, but we fire people all the time for doing boneheaded things. This company could be in serious trouble if someone reports this guy and the complaints get ignored. That happens to the right woman, and they’ll have a lawsuit on their hands. It’s in everyone’s best interest for him to be exited.

[Geraltt]

I don’t agree. If the company actually enforces what’s written on the code of conduct, it can be quite effective.

Really depends on your jurisdiction. I know personally of a few cases when Codes of Conduct were used nefariously to get rid of long-term employees because management thought they were being paid too much.

 

The ex-employees went to court and won.

 

And, of course, Codes of Conduct are generally written and "enforced" by HR departments, who are widely known for not being the sharpest knives in the drawer, and practice favouritism as a fact of life. Seen it over and over and over again. (Thankfully, I'm retired now and don't have to put up with such nonsense anymore.)

[smackie9]

It's not appropriate behavior but it does happen in many offices, and it is sometimes accepted or looked at as harmless. I say mind your own business unless he starts hitting on you personally if you don't want to get involved. If it really bothers you talk to HR or your supervisor. If you want to approach your colleagues about it, and just ask "How can you put up with be called that or his behavior?"

[LastStraw]

It's harmless behavior. WHat's the big deal here? If they minded how he calls them etc, they could deal with it themselves, unless specifically asking you to interfere.

 

Office spaces are getting increasingly uptight and even normal joking banter upsets some people but is it such a big deal, really...

[d0nnivain]

It's harmless behavior. WHat's the big deal here? If they minded how he calls them etc, they could deal with it themselves, unless specifically asking you to interfere.

 

Office spaces are getting increasingly uptight and even normal joking banter upsets some people but is it such a big deal, really...

 

 

No it's not harmless! Calling a professional in the work place "kitty" is dehumanizing her, reducing her to a sexual object & sending the message that she is inferior to men.

 

Kissing & hugging people at work is similarly demeaning. It's unwelcome conduct that could support a charge of criminal battery.

 

Demanding that somebody make you a pie in exchange for giving them critical information they need to do their job is sending the message that the women belongs at home in a kitchen not at work doing a job.

 

None of that is harmless & people who think it is are why the #MeToo movement has to exist. You just don't get it. This behavior is egregious & it violates every anti-discrimination law and policy on the books.

[LastStraw]

Well depends on context - it could be e.g. derivative from her name. Guys call each other silly names all the time too. I agree it is stupid to do it at work but not harmful in most cases.

 

The hugging / kiss on the cheek is inappropriate for sure but criminal.. I don’t think so.

 

My read is it’s a guy that is joking. I’d ask men - coworkers to bake me a pie too, in a joking context of course, not really meaning them to do it.

 

Maybe because I never paid attention to details like this I’ve never been discriminated for real from male coworkers... Bit each on their own.

 

No it's not harmless! Calling a professional in the work place "kitty" is dehumanizing her, reducing her to a sexual object & sending the message that she is inferior to men.

 

Kissing & hugging people at work is similarly demeaning. It's unwelcome conduct that could support a charge of criminal battery.

 

Demanding that somebody make you a pie in exchange for giving them critical information they need to do their job is sending the message that the women belongs at home in a kitchen not at work doing a job.

 

None of that is harmless & people who think it is are why the #MeToo movement has to exist. You just don't get it. This behavior is egregious & it violates every anti-discrimination law and policy on the books.

[d0nnivain]

It's not a play on somebody's name. The OP said this man called everyone kitty. Plus withholding critical work info . . .this guy is a jerk of the 1st order.

 

I like a jovial work space & can take a joke. This guy isn't joking or if he thinks he is, he needs to think again.

[Mr. Lucky]

It's not a play on somebody's name. The OP said this man called everyone kitty. Plus withholding critical work info . . .this guy is a jerk of the 1st order.

 

I like a jovial work space & can take a joke. This guy isn't joking or if he thinks he is, he needs to think again.

 

There's two issues here. First, this guy's behavior in abstract, plainly inappropriate. Second, the OP's involvement, purely vicarious and not actionable. She should let the affected parties find their voice and sort this out on their own...

 

Mr. Lucky

[Eternal Sunshine]

I don't know why OP cares this much. It's not your battle to fight.

[preraph]

Wherever you are, they must not have sexual harassment laws. This is the type of stuff that happened before Anita Hill. He certainly is a big flirt/player. Unless it's illegal there, it's up to the person he's doing it to to say something. If your office has rules about it, I mean, anyone can report him if they so choose, but not sure I'd get involved unless it involved me.

[Plutarh]

Wherever you are, they must not have sexual harassment laws. This is the type of stuff that happened before Anita Hill. He certainly is a big flirt/player. Unless it's illegal there, it's up to the person he's doing it to to say something. If your office has rules about it, I mean, anyone can report him if they so choose, but not sure I'd get involved unless it involved me.

 

I don't have any kind of involvement. I work there with both of them. I see pleople, I see different behaviours. I'm friend with de 52 y.o. female, working together for 10 years, being in the same team and trusting each other when having team work tasks to do. I don't know if I'm well understand: no feellings, no attraction, both happy married and very serious persons.

Here comes that guy who annoys her with that behaviour, she tries to avoid him so much. And she complains to me about his behaviour.

I've presented here the situation with a lot of details to find out your opinion, to see if only for me this man has an innapropriate behaviour. And I see that for 99% of people on here...yes it is innapropriate.

[preraph]

Yes, it is. But she needs to act disgusted or something unless he's her boss or whatever.