This affair almost ruined my life!!!

[BaileyB]

To answer another posters question, I do not see this coming out in 10 years from now. I really don't.

 

With respect, you have absolutely no control over that. This is a decision that you don’t get to make... but, you have clearly decided that it is a risk you are willing to take.

[Turning point]

I have read posts here about the wayward spouse just being bored or having no impulse control, but I think in most cases an affair means the marriage wasn't healthy. Maybe the betrayed spouse was happy and satisfied and was blindsided by it. But the wayward spouse acted out for a reason.

 

Well, you can't have it both ways - on one hand make the affair 100% the wayward responsibility and on the other lend reason for the affair as 50% the betrayed spouse.

 

The fact is our society is replete will selfishness, entitlement, and even personality disordered people who wreak havoc. There is also a growing portion of society that simply believes "competition" enjoins cheating in all kinds of arenas including education, finance, immigration, housing, and relationships.

 

Infidelity is not a reliable indicator of problems at home.

 

Infidelity is at best an indicator of individual, interpersonal, and problem solving skills of the person cheating. This personal profile is also a core element of the marriage itself beginning with the selection of a spouse.

 

People don't fail because they had an affair. The engine driving that bus was already running in a lower gear before they got married.

[Naivewomen]

@turning point. I agree. I probably needed therapy years ago. I had terrible coping skills and underlying things that I am now getting out in therapy.

[Aloha123]

Without speaking to NW's situation per se, I have been thinking about this debate of whether to tell the spouse in the context of my MM's relatively happy and extremely solid marriage.

 

Because I can say with almost complete certainty that his wife is better off never knowing that her husband has been cheating on her with various women for 20 of the 30 years they have been married. It would literally shatter her life into pieces, because she is so dependent on him, and her entire identity seems to be tied up in being his wife. They are attached at the hip, do everything together, etc.. Not to mention his 3 grown children who worship the ground he walks on. They all think he is "the best husband and father ever". And he has no desire whatsoever to ever leave her, notwithstanding the affairs.

 

And on a related point, I don't know that his having the affairs, even though it is clearly selfish and wrong morally, has necessarily negatively impacted the day to day quality of their marriage or his family life. If anything, having his need for excitement and newness met outside of the marriage has also kept him happy and more fulfilled (and less bored and trapped) WITHIN his marriage.

 

So let's just assume for the sake of argument that this is in fact the case. Is the difference that he like most MMs never "disconnect" from their spouses notwithstanding the affair, whereas MW like NW and myself do, and so the marriage becomes more of a lie unless we tell?

 

The reason I ask is that NW is trying to compartmentalize and move on with her marriage without ever telling, just like most MM do. But perhaps the two situations are not completely the same?

 

(Which isn't to say, btw, that my MM is at all justified in not telling. I'm just saying I don't know that his wife or children would necessarily be better off if they knew the truth)

[Aloha123]

I should also add, I don't think I necessarily hold the above views in order to justify or rationalize my having an affair with him and keeping it secret. Because in my darker moments, the vindictive side of me absolutely wants his wife and family to know!

[Orokotikki]

I always laugh at how delusional waywards sound when they try to make themselves the good guy by hiding their dirty secrets and making decisions for other people...

[Aloha123]

I always laugh at how delusional waywards sound when they try to make themselves the good guy by hiding their dirty secrets and making decisions for other people...

 

Fair enough. Yes I am certainly guilty of not thinking clearly, although I certainly don't think it's at all my place to decide to disclose to my MM's wife anything about the affairs. That is truly between him and his wife. And again, all other things being equal I would actually prefer for her to be told, regardless of whether it is in her best interest or not.

 

And, I am not at all talking about my own husband, who I definitely think would be best served by knowing and/or getting a divorce from me.

[pepperbird]

I will explain the value in knowing this way.

When I found out my husband was having an affair, suddenly it all made sense. His behvaior, his anger, his distance. I had been spending so much time trying to figure out what I was doing wrong, and when he finally came clean and explained why he had been acting the way he had, it was a huge weight lifted. Mind you, it was replaced by an equally heavy weight, but it was a weight I understood and could do something about.

I went and got tested for std's, spoke to a lawyer, talked to friends and told him that he needed to decide what he wanted, as I wasn't going to wait around while he dithered and did the wishy washy " I don't know what I want".

I was able to get my life back under control and at least I understood it.

 

 

Funny thing is most WS think their spouse doesn't know they are cheating. While that may be true, many know "something" is wrong, but they don't know what it is, and since they trust their spouse, cheating is the last thing on their mind.

[Aloha123]

I will explain the value in knowing this way.

When I found out my husband was having an affair, suddenly it all made sense. His behvaior, his anger, his distance. I had been spending so much time trying to figure out what I was doing wrong, and when he finally came clean and explained why he had been acting the way he had, it was a huge weight lifted. Mind you, it was replaced by an equally heavy weight, but it was a weight I understood and could do something about.

I went and got tested for std's, spoke to a lawyer, talked to friends and told him that he needed to decide what he wanted, as I wasn't going to wait around while he dithered and did the wishy washy " I don't know what I want".

I was able to get my life back under control and at least I understood it.

 

 

Funny thing is most WS think their spouse doesn't know they are cheating. While that may be true, many know "something" is wrong, but they don't know what it is, and since they trust their spouse, cheating is the last thing on their mind.

 

Yes you are 100% describing the "aha moment" my husband would have because my behavior has certainly changed over the past 2 years, much like NWs.

[DKT3]

I had the same experience with my wife. Her behavior was erratic and it caused chaos and confusion. Then while having a heated discussion I made a comment about her trying someone different and she responded maybe I tried that. In that second it all came into focus.

 

Aloha, what your MM has that naive wont be able to achieve in her marriage is because he had no need to disconnect or disregard his wife in order to justify the affairs. He kept/keeps you and the other women contained in a little box that doesn't impact his real life. Very few women have the ability to truly do this. In short in order for most women to have affairs they have to find fault with their husbands and marriages. That is the foundation for all the affairs indicates problems in the marriage foolishness that if you pay attention men rarely say or use as justification for affairs.

 

Secondly, in general women are the primary caregiver in the relationship, so its difficult for them to admit that their actions have damaged their relationship, so again with the marriage problems as a way to not take responsibility for the damage.

 

Men simply don't disconnect from their wives to have affairs so they can just walk away from affairs, they don't pine because it was never the focal point.

 

Naive won't be able to just restart her marriage, she will continue to mistreat her husband shd will continue to rob him of the opportunity to have a fully loving relationship. She wont even be honest with herself. This is why I push to confess, because her husband will continue to be punished and has no idea why, he believes if he is better it will be better and its untrue but most of all abusive.

[Aloha123]

DK - I agree with all of that and it's a dynamic I did not fully understand until reading your explanations - the woman pushing the husband away to justify the affair, being only able to connect to one person at a time, and conversely the MM still prioritizing his connection to his wife and thus having less of a need to rationalize by vilifying her. And not pining for her or otherwise being preoccupied during the affair let after it has ended.

 

But, that all being said, the wife of a MM is still not living an authentic life, is still being lied to, and so arguably she deserves to know as well, no?

[mark clemson]

I would just note that some MM do indeed become emotionally attached and preoccupied with the OW. However, I agree that there's less of a "need" to vilify or otherwise emotionally detach from their wife.

 

They may be emotionally detached from their wife for other reasons, or they may not be.

[El Duendecillo]

This is why I push to confess, because her husband will continue to be punished and has no idea why, he believes if he is better it will be better and its untrue but most of all abusive.

 

 

This statement is absolutely correct from my POV.

 

Naive's H will never be the man that she needs, or wants. Mainly because he will never know what he's been up against, nor has he been given an honest opportunity to leave, or reconcile with full knowledge.

 

Not my intention to bash you Naive, or anyone else.

[BaileyB]

The wife of a MM is still not living an authentic life, is still being lied to, and so arguably she deserves to know as well, no?

 

Arguably, yes. Your point being...

Edited March 14, 2019 by BaileyB

[Aloha123]

Sure. Your point being...

 

I'm honestly not trying to make a point per se. Before discovering this board, I always looked to my MM's conduct and thoughts re his affair as something I should "strive for", since he seemed to "handle" the situation so much better than me (completely crazy in hindsight, I know). So now, I am always trying to understand how the two situations are vastly different, in order to correct my own thinking and conduct.

 

And I am also trying to reconcile in my own mind how, even if it would destroy the spouse, as in the case of my MM, whether it's still the right thing to do, to tell. And no I don't need to be reminded that it's the right thing to do with regard to my husband -- I already know that.

 

I guess I'm also questioning NW's hypothesis that, since it's ok for the MM to not tell his wife, it's ok for her (and by extension me). Because is it really even ok for the MM not to tell his wife, even if it objectively is in her best interest not to know? And even if his marriage has been less negatively impacted by the affair as compared to the marriages of most MWs?

Edited March 14, 2019 by Aloha123

[BaileyB]

And I am also trying to reconcile in my own mind how, even if it would destroy the spouse, as in the case of my MM, whether it's still the right thing to do, to tell. And no I don't need to be reminded that it's the right thing to do with regard to my husband -- I already know that.

 

I guess I'm also questioning NW's hypothesis that, since it's ok for the MM to not tell his wife, it's ok for her (and by extension me). Because is it really ok for the MM not to tell his wife, even if it objectively is in her best interest not to know? And even if his marriage is less negatively impacted that the MW's.

 

Who says that it’s ok for MM to tell his wife? With respect, I don’t agree with NE hypothesis. I think it’s very self serving. If my husband was cheating on me, I would most definitely want to know. Knowledge is power. I want to make informed decisions about my life. I understand that some may chose to turn a blind eye to maintain an image, or a standard of living, or “for the children.” Not me.

 

To think that a BS would want to or would not want to know something as important as this, is to make a huge assumption. And I ask, respectfully, who are you (or anyone) to make the decision about what someone should or should not, would or would not, want to know?

 

Isn’t it awfully presumptuous to make the judgment that someone should not be told the truth about their marriage because the other person “believes” they would not be able to handle it? What do you think the spouse would feel to know that their life partner thought so little of them that they did not feel that they would be able to deal with the truth - that they needed to somehow be protected the way we protect a child from the harsh reality of life? What do you think the BS would feel if they know their spouse didn’t think they deserved the truth?

 

It takes courage to be honest. It takes integrity, strength, and humility to stand before your partner and share your truth. I personally believe that the decision to tell or not tell the truth has little to do with “concern” for the other person... if that was the case, the betrayal would never have occurred in the first place.

[Aloha123]

Bailey - I don't disagree with any of what you are saying and TBH I have never and will never meet MM's wife so I really have no idea how she would react, except to say that her life would likely be shattered, with of course the real thing doing the shattering being her husband's conduct and deceit, not the telling itself.

 

And no none of this in any way justifies a MW not telling her husband, especially in light of the different dynamics.

 

Anyway, NW is clearly not interested in telling, but for what it's worth this thread has completely turned my thinking around, knocked me out of denial, whatever, about whether I should tell my husband and/or get divorced.

[Aloha123]

The other point being, another reason that it's not my place to say whether she should or shouldn't know is that I most certainly won't be the one to tell her, as that is not my place. The only thing I have control over and should be focused on is not engaging in any further conduct about which he should have to tell her, obviously, and of course, also what to do about telling my own husband, which is my responsibility.

[Timshel]

Cheaters, meaning people who continually lie to spouses, children, family members, friends, coworkers...and so on are presumptuous and self serving.

 

 

The very nature of an affair is such unless an affair is regarding a love affair between two single/available people...if not, lies have to happen and they happen because they are not two single/available people.

 

 

If integrity and honesty were the standard for OW/OM, this forum would not exist.

 

 

So NW is doing what NW is accustomed, lie. That sounds so hard/cold doesn't it...don't call me a liar, how dare you, you don't know me! (multiple exclamation points,) lol. It the truth though.

 

 

Hand clap for wanting to preserve your marriage while continuing to lie...?

[BaileyB]

As an aside, further to our discussion Aloha. Let’s consider the ethics from a different perspective, a medical perspective.

 

I work with children who have disabilities. When I started my career, there was a belief in the medical profession that parents should not be told about their child’s diagnosis or prognosis because they would not be able to handle it. I used to visit one family, who’s daughter had been diagnosed with a degenerative disease, and the doctors had decided that the parents were not strong enough to handle the truth. The diagnosis was in every report, but it had never been shared with the parents. So every visit to their home, this mother would cry and ask questions. Why is she was not learning? Why is she not getting better? She would show us video of things she used to do, that she was not doing any more, and ask us why did she lose these skills? She would tell us that they had prayed and asked God - what had they done in their lives such that they deserved to be punished this way? It was heartbreaking.

 

Things have changed, thank goodness. Medical ethics has evolved such that we now believe that the patient, or parent, has an absolute right to know their child has a diagnosis and the prognosis. We have learned how to have the hard conversations with parents and deliver the bad news in a way that is realistic, but still supports the family and their hope for the future.

 

And boy, have I been amazed at the parents ability to not only handle the truth, but to handle unbelievably difficult things - situations that I don’t think I would be able to handle - with strength, dignity, and grace. The truth gives parents knowledge which enables them to make decisions that are in the best interest of their children/their family. After all, who knows best - the medical professional or the parent - about the care needs for the child, about the support they have to meet those needs, about what they value and want for their child/family, about how they allocate resources within the family, etc... Parents are simply not able to make decisions for their family or feel any sense of control if they do not have the information - the truth. And if I may say, I have been privileged to witness the most unbelievable resilience, as these families not only survive but learn to thrive...

 

Just think, of what life would have been like if “we - the medical profession” had passed judgment/imposed our own values and beliefs on what parents could or could not handle and given out information accordingly. Just think, what their life would have been like - always wondering, always worrying, never having the opportunity to find acceptance. How unfair would it have been for us to deny them the opportunity to make informed decisions and have a sense of control for their own lives. That’s just not something that I feel a person has the right to take from another person, which is why this whole discussion bothers me so much...

[Amethyst68]

It's extremely arrogant to decide your BH wouldn't want to know the truth because it's what you say is true for you.

 

I think it's strange to say you're moving forward and wanting to live genuinely whilst at the same time aspiring to emulate "successful" cheaters who can compartmentalize their feelingsfeelings behaviour. IMO the narrative in this thread is dangerously close to poor MW taken advantage of by wicked MM. This was an affair that went on for 5 years and you have suffered no consequences. I don't think you're being honest with yourself. My impression is you want to save your lifestyle not your marriage and your BH is just collateral damage!

 

You didn't respond to my post quoting you stating you still pine and crave MM. Is that because in this thread it simply doesn't fit your "growth".

[BaileyB]

If I may add, part of the reluctance from the medical profession to share information with patients was the desire to maintain a position of power and control. Patients who are informed can present a threat to someone who is used to having all the information, and thus all the power and the ability to make decisions. It’s a very entitled and arrogant position to assume.

 

Thankfully, there has been a real shift in the medical profession... or at least, it is evolving.

 

I believe there are similarities with NW’s determination not to tell her husband the truth. She has complete control if she has all the information. If her husband knew the truth, he then has the ability to make his own decision and she may well lose the ability to control her own destiny... With knowledge, comes power.

[DKT3]

 

But, that all being said, the wife of a MM is still not living an authentic life, is still being lied to, and so arguably she deserves to know as well, no?

 

His wife absolutely deserves to know, as does naive womans MM wife, if they were here posting I would be urging them to be honest as well.

 

Mark, marriages survive Male infidelities at a much higher rate then they do Female infidelities. In past decades it was believed to be based on the high number of stay at home moms, however, as the number of SAHM decreased the numbers that stay married after infidelities were flatlined. The reason for the gap is believed to be in womans inability to re-engage back into the marriage because of the damage she caused and thier unwillingness to own it. Male fragile egos are also a contributing factor, but much less then the females mental gymnastics that allowed her to justify the affair.

 

I dont disagree that MM become emotionally attached to the MW/OW, they dont sacrifice their marriage to do so.

 

I have often referred to my wife's affair as her being the MM, because she was behaving more like a MM than a MW during her affair. She was overall nicer, buying me odd gifts, and overall acting out of character but being more clingy. She denies it but I believe she was emotionally attached to the guy, not in love but attached nonetheless. She never detached from me and when her affair ended she was able to just walk back into the marriage as if it didn't happen, except for her fear of me finding out. This is ultimately what led to our divorce. The secret is what created the distance between us.

[DKT3]

Bailey, very early on naive stated that her husband would leave her if he knew, that is why she wont confess. Him leaving isnt in her best interest. One of the things that my wife told me that showed me she was worth taking another chance on was "I didn't trust you to love me for who I was, not all of me" it took me a few weeks to digest those few words. But I believe this is the core of naive womans problem in all of this.

[BaileyB]

Bailey, very early on naive stated that her husband would leave her if he knew, that is why she wont confess. Him leaving isnt in her best interest.

 

I didn’t remember that. Thanks for the clarification.

 

Clearly, it isn’t in her best interest to tell the truth. Which is why, she is vehemently refusing to be honest with her husband and throwing out every excuse or justification she can think of to try and support her decision...

 

After all, he may not love her, if he knew all of her...