Rayce Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 So recently my grandson (he is 13) asked me if Adam and Eve were the first people who did their kids have kids with? Did they have sex with apes? Were they from outer space? I was caught off guard and really unsure what to tell him.I told him that although I wasn't completely sure I thought that maybe God created other families during this time as well. I told him that the story of creation was the story of one family... and it was many generations before any of it actually got wrote down. I always had this same question that was never really completely answered when I was child and I even went private school. What would you tell someone? Link to post Share on other sites
losangelena Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 I mean, you could always just say you don’t know. Considering the fact that none of us will ever really know the origins of the species, so to speak, I think what you said was just fine. Link to post Share on other sites
basil67 Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 As an athiest, I always prefaced my answers with "some people believe". As for this question, I'd probably also say that God most likely created other people after Adam and Eve. Link to post Share on other sites
Nilfiry Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 (edited) You give him the generic reply that everyone uses when they do not know: "God works in mysterious ways." Otherwise, you try to justify incest to him because even if it would work genetically, there is still the whole moral dilemma. Even if God did created more people after Adam and Eve, this would still be an issue because the Bible teaches that only Noah, his wife, and their three sons and daughter-in-laws survived the great flood, so even more incest to repopulate the world. Edited January 16, 2019 by Nilfiry Link to post Share on other sites
d0nnivain Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 Your explanation was fine. The Bible is not to be taken literally. For further guidance ask your own minister / pastor / rabbi / spiritual advisor. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Rayce Posted January 16, 2019 Author Share Posted January 16, 2019 What would you tell someone? I am ok with my answer... I am asking what you might say. Thank you Link to post Share on other sites
GorillaTheater Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 I am asking what you might say. What I would say is that the first 10-or-so chapters of Genesis are a metaphor setting the stage for the rest of the Bible and not meant to reflect any sort of genuine "history". Not a stretch, given the Jesus often (usually?) spoke in metaphors and similes. Link to post Share on other sites
Arieswoman Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 Genesis tells us that Adam and Eve had 2 sons, Cain and Abel. After Cain murdered Abel another son was born called Seth. It also says that Adam "beget sons and daughters" but doesn't give any more information that that. Cain and his wife (who isn't named) had a son called Enoch. As we aren't given any more details than this we assume that the sons married their sisters. This was banned later on in Jewish law but would have been essential then as there just weren't any other humans about. The short answer is that we don't know the full story. Link to post Share on other sites
preraph Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 Tell him nobody really knows if there was creation but some believe so while many others do not, and that the Bible is a book of stories written by men many years ago that has some good lessons but can't be taken literally. Link to post Share on other sites
Happy Lemming Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 Obtain a copy of Charles Darwin's "On the Origin of Species" and let him read that (they make a "young readers" version). He is 13, he should be able to understand the basic gist of it, then he can make his own decision. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
major_merrick Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 Based on the Book of Genesis, Adam and Eve had lots of kids. If people lived to be very old, imagine their lifespan (and breeding years) to be about 8 times ours. With no birth control and good health, how many kids could you have in 400 years? A LOT!!! And if they had kids, how big would the population have been in a few hundred years? Especially with a generation gap of between 15-20 years, that is a ton of people in a short time. "Fill the earth and subdue it" was God's primary command, after all. God loves it when people have lots and lots of kids! Adam lived to be 930 years old. It is only later on after the flood around the time of Abraham that God limits humans to a 120 year maximum lifespan...which later shortens to "three score and ten, or perhaps four score" as the normal lifespan like we have today. But yes, the children of Adam and Eve probably would have all been having sex with their brothers and sisters. Probably wasn't an issue, though. If life was close to perfect right after the Fall into Sin, then it would have taken a while for genetic abnormalities to occur, so the risk of inbreeding would probably not have been there like it is today. After the Flood, it would have happened again, as Noah only had three sons, and each had a wife. Lots of cousin couples in the first few generations... Look at the story of Cain and Abel. The text doesn't go into great detail, but when God confronts Cain about his murder and places a mark on him, the purpose of the mark was to protect him. Why? Because Cain feared that other people might kill him to avenge his brother. Get that? If he's worried about other people, then what other people were there? Obviously Adam and Eve had a lot of other kids that were out in the world by that time, and so there weren't just four people on the earth. Cain went on to build cities...there were enough people on earth to live in them. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Ronni_W Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 I told him that although I wasn't completely sure Rayce, Your answer was perfect, especially that you also said that you are not sure. . Other ancient spiritual texts put forth that 'Adam and Eve' is a metaphorical representation of what happened to human Beings on Earth, and that 'Adam' is a representation of the Masculine Principle in the process of consciousness evolution, and also of the process of manifestation, while 'Eve' represents the Feminine Principle of each process. As far as the evolution in consciousness, the story obviously refers to the individual after its fall in consciousness, and that he or she then needs external intervention to be awakened to the fact that there is something else, or a different way of looking at life. The serpent (Kundalini Energy) actually was a positive, to help the individual (Adam/Eve) make a needed change to his or her worldview. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Osho Posted February 11, 2019 Share Posted February 11, 2019 (edited) <snip>Other ancient spiritual texts put forth that 'Adam and Eve' is a metaphorical representation of what happened to human Beings on Earth, and that 'Adam' is a representation of the Masculine Principle in the process of consciousness evolution, and also of the process of manifestation, while 'Eve' represents the Feminine Principle of each process.<snip> My talk would have included what other religions and eiarlier civilizations believed. And I would have ended with my own beliefs which align heavily with exactly how you explained the story above. Especially how what has always been perceived as bad (snake/devil) is truly a catalyst to enlightenment. Edited February 11, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator Truncate quote Link to post Share on other sites
major_merrick Posted February 11, 2019 Share Posted February 11, 2019 I would include how every demonic and evil worldview has always included a worship of snakes. Snakes don't just symbolize evil, they are the personification of it in our world. It goes back to the beginning, and has been set up as a sign for us. Snake handling, snake worship, and snake art is a sure sign that someone is messing around with evil. Snakes are a punishment for doing evil, as seen in the book of Numbers chapter 21. When Adam and Eve sinned, they were tempted by Satan in the form of a snake. The snake was cursed to crawl on its belly (did they have legs before?) and perpetual enmity between mankind and the snake was prophesied. To love snakes, admire them, and portray them in a good light goes against the natural order as set up by God. Link to post Share on other sites
todreaminblue Posted February 11, 2019 Share Posted February 11, 2019 i would deflect with a lame joke.....and say what came first the chicken or the egg and if the egg came first......how did the egg have sex and fertilise itself....then i would just say i didnt know after that and that prayer or studying the scriptures may help.....and lets do it together because i havent a clue myself...that way i get to spend time with my kid and make more lame jokes to make them smile........deb...... Link to post Share on other sites
Garcon1986 Posted February 11, 2019 Share Posted February 11, 2019 Consider watching the TV series "Cosmos" by Neil DeGrasse Tyson together as mother and son Link to post Share on other sites
Ronni_W Posted February 11, 2019 Share Posted February 11, 2019 Snakes are a punishment for doing evil, as seen in the book of Numbers chapter 21. Numbers 21:8-9: Then the LORD said to Moses, “Make a snake and mount it on a pole. When anyone who is bitten looks at it, he will live.” So Moses made a bronze snake and mounted it on a pole. If anyone who was bitten looked at the bronze serpent, he would recover. The Lord admonishes Moses to 'make a snake' so that people who are willing to look at it 'will live'. That is, will spiritually live; or, 'would recover' from a life of sin. The metaphor for 'the snake', here given by the Lord to Moses, clearly does not speak to evil. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Rayce Posted February 12, 2019 Author Share Posted February 12, 2019 Thank you for all the great responses. I am looking forward to carrying on this conversation with my grandson in the future. I am glad he feels like he can ask me these kinds of questions. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Garcon1986 Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 I think that's crucial that you have these big conversations, but that he never lose an inquisitive mind. Keep him safe from those that would indoctrinate belief systems into him, to take advantage of your baby. He can have whatever belief system he wants! As long as he doesn't start subscribing to what is politically convenient or whatever the boss says. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Rayce Posted February 12, 2019 Author Share Posted February 12, 2019 I think that's crucial that you have these big conversations, but that he never lose an inquisitive mind. Keep him safe from those that would indoctrinate belief systems into him, to take advantage of your baby. He can have whatever belief system he wants! As long as he doesn't start subscribing to what is politically convenient or whatever the boss says. Agreed... this is my intent. I do not subscribe to organized religion. To me it is a personal relationship. Link to post Share on other sites
major_merrick Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 Numbers 21:8-9: Then the LORD said to Moses, “Make a snake and mount it on a pole. When anyone who is bitten looks at it, he will live.” So Moses made a bronze snake and mounted it on a pole. If anyone who was bitten looked at the bronze serpent, he would recover. The Lord admonishes Moses to 'make a snake' so that people who are willing to look at it 'will live'. That is, will spiritually live; or, 'would recover' from a life of sin. The metaphor for 'the snake', here given by the Lord to Moses, clearly does not speak to evil. God sent snakes among the people as punishment for their complaining, unfaithfulness, and misdeeds. The bronze snake He commanded Moses to make was a symbol of repentance. People who looked upon the snake had to do so with purpose - an act of faith and admittance of guilt. Similar to a child who has broken something and the parent shows them the results and says "Look at what you did." Numbers 21 absolutely uses snakes as a metaphor for evil, and as a literal punishment for that evil. It is important to have big conversations with children as they grow. It is also important to bring them up in the knowledge of truth. Not truth as presented by leaders, politicians, and religious demagogues, but truth that is evident to someone seeing the world with simple eyes and willingness to have a relationship with God. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Betrayed&Stayed Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 What would you tell someone? The Creation story is an allegory, not history. The purpose of the Creation is story is to explain Why God created the world and us (humans). Focus on the Why, not the How. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Ronni_W Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 Numbers 21 absolutely uses snakes as a metaphor for evil, and as a literal punishment for that evil. And also, as you say, as a metaphor for the symbol of repentance. Repentance begets forgiveness...not further punishment. If we are going to use the metaphors, then we need to mention both, not only the one. <snip>, but truth that is evident to someone seeing the world with simple eyes and willingness to have a relationship with God.How I think of it is, "truth that is evident to someone seeing the world with the Eye/Mind of Christ, or Christ Consciousness". This takes out of the equation that person's vocation/calling in life. Link to post Share on other sites
Ronni_W Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 Consider watching the TV series "Cosmos" by Neil DeGrasse Tyson Actually, I'd not limit it to just Neil. Nassim Haramein has some very interesting things to say, and also Jim Al-Khalili, Brian Cox, Brian Greene, etc. The more accurate things we can learn about what science teaches us about the physical-material world of form, the better off we all will be. Link to post Share on other sites
Justanaverageguy Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 (edited) God sent snakes among the people as punishment for their complaining, unfaithfulness, and misdeeds. The bronze snake He commanded Moses to make was a symbol of repentance. People who looked upon the snake had to do so with purpose - an act of faith and admittance of guilt. Similar to a child who has broken something and the parent shows them the results and says "Look at what you did." Numbers 21 absolutely uses snakes as a metaphor for evil, and as a literal punishment for that evil. It is important to have big conversations with children as they grow. It is also important to bring them up in the knowledge of truth. Not truth as presented by leaders, politicians, and religious demagogues, but truth that is evident to someone seeing the world with simple eyes and willingness to have a relationship with God. Very well said and good insight into that passage of the bible and what it represented. Lean not on your own understanding; in all your ways look to Him, and He will direct your path. Possibly the hardest part of my own spiritual journey is learning to do the above. Trust and follow even when you don't fully understand. You said it's wrong .... but everyone else says its ok and I can't understand why it's wrong ? So who do I trust ? It seems to run counter to everything we normally are taught or pass down to our children. The challenge of faith. This is an infinitely valuable .... but very hard thing to teach a child. Edited February 15, 2019 by Justanaverageguy Link to post Share on other sites
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