What does she want from me?

[WhatIveDone]

Hi,

 

Let me start by apologize for any bad grammar and spelling – English is not my native tongue.

 

Anyway – Might be a little long. I’m a MM and around a year ago, I got involved with a new girl. She was a MOW, but in a relationship that wasn’t all that great. She was the one that came on to me and we quickly hit it off, and exchanged numbers.

 

Then began the EA. We texted and spoke on the phone every single day, and even though we both tried to slow it down a few times, the chemistry was just too intense, so the “slowing down” only lasted around 12 hours. We were madly in love. The EA of course turned into a PA a couple of times – Neither of us felt any guilt towards our BS’s – We just wanted each other. The everyday texting, talking, dirty talk and sharing fantasies was a complete breath of fresh air. We even fantasized about a future together, and how we wished things could have been different, now that we were “meant to be”

She thought that I was way out of her league – She was so turned on by me. The way I treated her, my body, intelligence, looks, funny and caring side. When we were together, no one else existed. We would go so far, as holding hands and kissing passionately in public. We could have easily been caught.

 

After 5 months of being hot and heavy, she one day told me, that her H was becoming a little suspicious. Though he didn’t have any evidence, she got pretty scared – That brought us back to reality. She knew she had to back out and try reconciling with her H. We were getting way to serious, and she practically felt as she were having 2 boyfriends at the same time. Despite what we were having, she had to be realistic about it all – Deep down inside, she knew she loved him, and he was supposed to be part of her future, even though they were having tons of issues at home based around mistrust, lack of communication and substance use/abuse.

Of course it hurt, but I could not blame her for trying to work things out at home. I knew I had to do the same, so I felt a necessity to do as she did. My wife and I got to talking, and things became slightly better at home. I did not tell her about my AP though.

 

Fast forward 8 months. During this period, we were still texting a lot. There were still some “loving” emoji’s involved and some, “I miss you” text, but nothing even close to “back in the days”. We often spoke about meeting up, but it never happened. However, we did see each other once, but at a public gathering, so we just acted as friends.

 

We were also talking about how things were at home and how our relationships were doing – Mine was ok, but hers wasn’t – They did try to work things out, make some common agreements and promises, but her husband quickly broke them, and they were back to square one. She tried to bring up “divorce” several times, but he kept promising, so she hoped that it would soon change. Also he was to start a new career, and if things did not improve, she would call it off for good.

 

Her and I also had some difficulties and arguments during this time. I may have acted like an idiot once or twice, not responding on texts and assuming stupid things, because of what she said. At one point, she got very angry with me a few months back, when I posted a picture on SoMe, that showed some love and affection for my wife. Something I just felt a necessity to do. Basically she told me to f*** off, leave her alone and that I had nothing more to offer her, besides keeping her head under water. To me that sounds like jealousy, but she kept denying that. She told me that she had moved on, and that there were no more feelings involved.

 

I got to state, that prior to my posting, she had done the exact same thing a few times, posting some loving pictures of her H. I did then confront her, and she told me then, that it was out of guilt towards him and something she felt needed to be done.

 

Today we are back to normal, and our mishaps are in the past. We still communicate, but not as frequently – Perhaps a message three or four times a day, but some days a whole lot more. So still on very good terms. It’s roughly fifty-fifty who initiates the contact.

Most days we send the “kissing emoji with red hearts”. I know that girls tend to use this emoji frequently, but when you send it to a former lover or AP, the meaning to me, is quite different.

 

The way I see it is, that even though we are not physical, and the communication is more day to day life, without the “crazy about you and so in love” stuff, the EA is still very much happening. I kind of feel, that if she truly wants to reconcile with her H, she would have gone NC on me several months ago.

 

All though we don’t tell each other all these “lovey dovey” stuff anymore, we did on some level the other night when we both were very drunk. We were out, not together, but kept in contact the entire night. Apparently, drunk people have no boundaries, so eventually we both said, how happy we were to have one another in our lives, and that we missed each other. And of course a bunch of red hearts and other loving emoji’s.

 

I’ve got a feeling, that her H and her are doing better, mostly based on things she said. Also the other day, she posted a picture on SoMe of him, and some text about them getting away again and a red heart – Talk about double standards! I could easily have done as she did, and turned red, but I choose to ignore it. She knows I’ve seen it and for some reason, she quickly removed that picture again. After that, she kept sending a bunch of snaps (just random ones), but I didn’t respond or return anything. I don’t know if she was trying to smooth things out, but I kept my distance.

 

So if she really wants to work on her relationship and make it better, why is she still in contact with me? She never told her H about the affair either. Remember – She is also the one who broke it off, but still wants me in her life. How is that even possible? Is she somehow keeping me on the bench in case things doesn’t work out for her? Or is she perhaps afraid, that I will expose her or reveal any intimate details or pictures?

 

What is your take on this story – Is it possible to keep a platonic relationship with someone you have had an EA and PA with? I don’t know, if there really are any major “butterflies” or loving feelings involved anymore, but the emoji’s and contact is still there.

I don’t think she truly loves her H. I do think she loves him to some degree, but I think it has more to do with security and comfort. In the “early days” while we were talking, she did at one point try to see, if the numbers would add up, were she ever to leave him.

I know it’s difficult to channel an entire story down on a single page, but I hope I got the bullet points across.

 

And please don’t judge me – I know what I have done. This is not a sub-story on how I need to reconcile with my wife. We are more very close friends than lovers, and I don’t see that ever change. I’m on the verge of getting a divorce, but that has nothing to do with the AP. I’m merely trying to understand, what is going through MOW’s head.

Edited January 17, 2019 by WhatIveDone

[TooBad]

Do you honestly want people to speculate what goes through the mind of someone they don't even know?

 

 

If I want to know what someone thinks or feels, I just ask. I don't stay silent because I might not want to hear the answer. And I take the answer they give as being the truth and take it from there.

[FMW]

You cannot separate the issue of your marriages from your affair, sorry. They are intertwined. If you were both single and available your relationship would be very different, reasons and motivations for what you do and say would be different.

 

Trying to figure out what is going on in an affair partner's head is futile. It's never going to make sense or even be consistent from day to day.

[WhatIveDone]

I guess you are both right - I will let it be, and focus on other matters.

[Naivewomen]

Do you love her??

[Naivewomen]

Btw, its comforting to hear from a MM going through an affair on here. Bravo to you for sharing your story and your feelings??

[WhatIveDone]

Do you love her??

 

Hard to tell – I know we were ”in love”, no doubt about that, but don’t think I really loved her like that. To me, that word means a whole lot more. That means that two people share some deeper connection over a period of time, and the “in love” phase has passed. We were both caught up in the A fog, so it was more about physical and emotional attraction.

 

Btw, its comforting to hear from a MM going through an affair on here. Bravo to you for sharing your story and your feelings??

 

Thanks – I have read numerous posts about MM only wants an A because of sex. That was not the case with me. Not that it didn’t play a significant part, but I connected with MOW on so any other levels. The daily texting and talking, attention, getting to know one another and day to day life, was really what kept me interested. Sex was icing on the cake, however beautiful as it was, and something we both knew was going to happen. That’s why we didn’t get physical beyond kissing the first couple of times we met.

[Amethyst68]

You cannot separate the issue of your marriages from your affair, sorry. They are intertwined.

 

Agree totally with the above statement. There is no way you could have reconnected with your wife or reinvested in your marriage when your mind and heart were (and are) so invested in the MW.

 

Your MW probably won't leave her husband but the woman you owe something to is your wife. I know you don't really want to hear it and probably won't do it but you should tell her what's going on. Give her the opportunity to make an informed decision about her own life!

[Naivewomen]

I feel your pain with all of this. I am just coming out of my 5 year long stint with MM. I tore my world apart and completely disconnected for this MM. My fault I know but I fell deep and hard. So the pain I'm going through is the result of a bad decision i understand this however I would love to know of this impacts him at all?? So to hear that a MM like yourself was able to really have genuine feeling for the OW is comforting because like you we had a deep emotional connection. 2 years of the 5 year affair was only EA. I trusted him and believed that this was special and rare. I would love to know more about your experience as well and if your OW felt like anything like I felt believe me she is in tremendous pain just trying her best to juggle her world now.

[ExpatInItaly]

She is keeping you warm in case she finally decides to the pull the plug on her marriage. Some days she's more confident that her marriage is over, so she seeks attention from you. Other days, less so, so she's pretending that her marriage is in a good place.

 

It doesn't really matter, though, if we're being realistic. Neither of you is available to the other. You're convenient distractions from your respective unhappy marriages, but that's all it currently amounts to for all practical purposes. I wouldn't waste more time speculating about her emojis or snaps or what she might be thinking, when there is currently no future possible with her.

 

What is your end goal here, OP? If she left her marriage, would you leave yours? Or are you going to leave yours in any case?

[findingnemo]

I think that trying to be friends in your particular case will not work. I can understand you having an A on your way out of your marriage..and in the process falling in love. General wisdom says that you are still cheating. It says that you should have waited to leave...and all that. But in reality or rather in my experience, I have seen married couples break down into nothing more than enemies living in the same house. So each party may be vulnerable to "receiving" much needed TLC from an outside party.

 

I don't think that she will leave. That's probably the first thing you need to think about. You are leaving and somehow wish that you could find a loving partner. Your post asks if you can be friends but I think you don't want to lose the connection with her given you are going through a divorce - a painful thing no matter if you are the initiator.

 

I can't be sure what she is thinking but I can guess. She is hoping to keep her marriage with its issues and also have you there as stress relief. You are to her what in my society has come to be called a Panadol. An effective pain relief brand of paracetamol. She needs the assurance you give her even though you both may not be as lovey dovey as before. Is she doing it consciously? Maybe not but does it matter? What matters is that you will be strung along for months or even years and end up without her anyway. To top it all off, she sounds like she also has her own issues (like we all do). Issues that when you two are together may turn out to be deal breakers.

 

My advice is that you stop thinking about what her intentions are. Rather look to focusing on your divorce and your own personal well being at this time. You don't need the additional stress. You are not in the right frame of mind to determine who is good for you right now. You need to be 100% free in order to make such decisions. Have a proper relationship in which there is no hiding, no lying, no confusion. That can only happen when you are done with your divorce. Being someone's Panadol is a one-way game in which you the Panadol gets nothing in return.

 

I am assuming that you were already on your way out by the time you started the A since you said that the divorce is not related. The dynamic you have built between the two of you (the distorted relationship characteristics of an A) will not translate easily when you are divorced and free. She will still be in an A and you won't except as an AP. That's the sad reality. Cut back on communication. The kissing emojis with hearts are meaningless, IMO. But then I find the whole relationship-by-text phenomenon alien. So I may be biased since to me any relationship that is text-based is not real.

Edited January 19, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[Overtaxed]

She was a MOW, but in a relationship that wasn’t all that great.

The absolute first thing you need to know; APs lie. A LOT. I had the pleasure of reading my W's TXT's (and emojis, yeah) to the AP, I'm going to say about 85% of it was lies, including this particular one (about our relationship being awful). It wasn't. I have the pictures to prove it, the e-mails back and forth, the memories of us together during that time. Yes, it wasn't the "best" our marriage had been, but she (and a TON of other AP's) re-wrote our history to make her A seem "OK" in her mind. You have no idea what her M is like because in all likelyhood; she's lying to you about it so that you'll continue the A. If she told you "my H is a good man, he's nice to me, buys me flowers, and sleeps with me most nights I want to" it would be a little harder to have an A, right? So, instead of putting you in that situation, she just lies; he's a bad guy, we never have sex, he's boring, I don't love him.. All standard lines and all very, very often fabrications.

 

She is keeping you warm in case she finally decides to the pull the plug on her marriage. Some days she's more confident that her marriage is over, so she seeks attention from you. Other days, less so, so she's pretending that her marriage is in a good place.

[]I'm not sure if this term is offensive or not (or considered sexist), but, here goes. Some portion (significant) of women (and some portion of men, but, IMHO, a lot less) do something, intentionally or not, that's called "monkey branching". Simply put, they won't let go of one branch (their H) until they are sure they have a firm grip on the next branch (another possible H/AP).

 

It's common and while there are a bunch of terms for it (deeply tied up in an "exit affair" for example) the behavior is very common. That's what the poster above is describing, and it's as good a guess as I've got. If her marriage goes south, she wants to make sure she has a branch to grab onto. But there's a lot of things you don't know here, most importantly, how strong is she holding on to her current branch (she's saying "it's awful", but, the reality might be very, very different) and are there other branches out there she's examining and/or has a hold on?

 

You just don't know, and you won't know, because, at the very core of an affair is one very unfortunate truth. Lies. She (and you) is a liar, and a liar of the highest order, simply by virtue of having an A, she's shown her capacity for extreme deceit. You think, as many WS's do, that her capacity for lying is directed only at her H. In almost all cases, you're wrong. As I said earlier, I had the pleasure of reading my W's TXT messages to the AP and comparing them to her TXT messages to me.

 

Yes, she was lying to both of us. But I was getting 80% truth, 20% lies. He was getting the opposite, 80% lies, 20% truth. And that's pretty common in an A, if you're willing to lie to your H/W about something so important, well.. Then lying to the AP about other things seems like a "little white lie" compared to the massive lie they are already living by having an A.

Edited January 21, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Paragraphs

[Mrs._December]

Some portion (significant) of women (and some portion of men, but, IMHO, a lot less) do something, intentionally or not, that's called "monkey branching". Simply put, they won't let go of one branch (their H) until they are sure they have a firm grip on the next branch (another possible H/AP). It's common and while there are a bunch of terms for it (deeply tied up in an "exit affair" for example) the behavior is very common. That's what the poster above is describing, and it's as good a guess as I've got.

It's funny because that's exactly what I see most men doing. They'll stay in a lousy marriage and cling to it like grim death before taking the initiative to sack up and make the decision to put an end to it.

 

And THAT'S why more divorces are initiated by women - because they don't have to be hanging onto a branch for dear life before leaving a man. When she's done, she's done. Actually, the only time I've ever seen a man leave a marriage is when he's got a woman waiting for him in the shadows.

 

So...there's that.

 

OP, are you going to claim to be 'in the fog' if/when your wife catches you? They actually believe that nonsense. Here you've been fully involved for two SOLID years but a BS will still eat that crap up about you being in a 'fog.' :rolleyes::rolleyes:

 

Regardless of what your OW wants, you staid a divorce for you is very close.

 

Why not just pull the damned plug and be done with it?

[Overtaxed]

It's funny because that's exactly what I see most men doing.

 

Oh, don't get me wrong, men do it too. But most male A's are "more" affairs, they are doing it for more sex/attention/etc where an "exit affair" (monkey branching) is more commonly a female affair. But that said, there are at least some women who are having an affair just for more sex and at least some men who aren't able to leave their marriage without the "strength" from an AP. So it's by no means exclusive to one sex or the other. Just, absent further evidence, if I hear of a man having an A my typical answer is "he's after more" (something, typically sex). Where a woman having an A, my typical answer is "she wants out of the marriage". Not always right, not by a long shot, but its a generalization that holds true relatively well.

[pepperbird]

op,

if you really do care for this ow, you'll leave her alone. Being in an raffia with you may well be causing far more problems than it solves for her.

 

 

Of her marriage is as cruddy as you say ( and if it is, how much is her cheating contributing to that? Who else has she cheated with besides you?) then you continuing to be her emotional sponge hurts her more than helps her. In effect, you have become her enabler. You give her the comfort she needs to stay in a bad relationship. Why? What good does that really do anyone?

 

 

If her marriage is actually okay, well, then she's one big, fat liar and you can't trust her. ( and before you say you can trust her, she's honest, blah blah bah, keep in mind that people who cheat on their spouses are showing just how much they can and will lie when it benefits them to do so...and yes, lying by omission counts)

[WhatIveDone]

Sorry for my late response, but been away for the weekend.

 

I feel your pain with all of this. I am just coming out of my 5 year long stint with MM. I tore my world apart and completely disconnected for this MM. My fault I know but I fell deep and hard. So the pain I'm going through is the result of a bad decision i understand this however I would love to know of this impacts him at all?? So to hear that a MM like yourself was able to really have genuine feeling for the OW is comforting because like you we had a deep emotional connection. 2 years of the 5 year affair was only EA. I trusted him and believed that this was special and rare. I would love to know more about your experience as well and if your OW felt like anything like I felt believe me she is in tremendous pain just trying her best to juggle her world now.

 

I’m sorry to hear that – I truly am. Guess the two of us, shares something similar that is not all that fun. I do think she is suffering as much as I am. But we both try to make ends meet, and carry on with our daily lives. The reason I think so, is mostly based on thinks she either said or posted on SoMe. We are both very much controlled by emotions, and I don’t think it’s possible to simply turn them off.

I may act cool and calm towards her, letting her think, that I’m so busy and occupied and having a wonderful time. Sometimes I am, but other times I’m just faking it. I don’t want her to think, that I’m just sitting home reading through LS to try and get her out of my head.

I guess I have turned into one of those SoMe people, who will only show a polished lifestyle.

 

I don't think that she will leave. That's probably the first thing you need to think about. You are leaving and somehow wish that you could find a loving partner. Your post asks if you can be friends but I think you don't want to lose the connection with her given you are going through a divorce - a painful thing no matter if you are the initiator.

 

Not that I really expect her to do so, but if she claims she needs to reconcile with him, then I would expect her to go completely NC on me. Everyday communication just prolongs the healing – The same goes for me as well.

 

To the rest of you – You are all absolutely correct. I guess she is keeping me around as a shoulder to cry on, but it will never go beyond that anymore. I’m not really truly sad about it anymore (8 months of limited contact or at least less than we had before) kind of eased some of the pain.

Her marriage IS bad – I know that. I’ve seen texts between her and hubby. It is not something she would fake. It was really bad (don’t know about now, but it really was)

As one of you stated, that I need to leave her alone seems a little harder to do. If I don’t initiate contact, she most definitely will. So I can keep ignoring and ignoring, but to me that just seems a little provocative and mean (Well “mean” sounds hollow when all is said and done) I know, that she will get angry with me, if I just ignore her, without any explanation.

[WhatIveDone]

Please take my situation out of the equation.

If she continues to keep in touch, even though she had stated, that she needs to reconcile, doesn’t that just seem like lack of love and respect for her husband? If she truly wants to do that, she would have asked for NC

[Naivewomen]

@what I've done. Yes, it sure does seem like she wants to reconcile but wants to continually string you along. This is the push/pull that they do when they feel guilty and torn with their emotions. I let him Go back in August. I told him I was.done with the gaslighting and etc. He managed to maintain NC until Dec.

 

He called me and we spoke he wanted to continually apologize but in the same breath reiterate he is not leaving his family. These past two weeks he has appeared out of nowhere just to say Hi. Really after all the pain and emotionally rollercoaster of almost 100 days NC now you reappear to say Hi or do u reappear to see if I will allow you to continue to be a cake eater. Not sure this man knows what love is. But apparently I believed him for a.very long time.

 

Dont be so haste to answer her texts and etc. So what she will get mad at you!! Shes a cake eater living the best of both worlds. She is not interested in your heart. Guard it with your life now because she knows she has a.piece of it and if you allow it will continue to shatter until u forget who you are!!!

Edited January 21, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Paragraphs

[Turning point]

I'm sort of dumbfounded by how much of the story revolves around one or the other getting angry because the person they are cheating with may be cheating on them with their respective spouse - merely by creating "head space" for them.

 

OP, What do I make of this story? That you are each fully stuck inside your own heads. Obsessed not with each other, but with this dark corner of your own mind where universal forces take over your self control.

 

You should end this, Jedi. She's not the drone you are looking for.

[WhatIveDone]

I guess I do need to end this – I really do. But as anyone who has ever been involved in an affair knows, it is pretty hard. In some bizarre way, I was suddenly reminded of long lost feelings – Something I haven’t felt for quite some time. Maybe ever – Don’t really remember, but I loved every minute of it.

I guess some sort of closure would help, but that would still be a punch in the face. To have her completely erased.

However – I am doing much better. I’m still thinking about her a lot, but I’m not “craving” her, as I used to. So I think I’m on the right path – I just need to make some final decisions about my own life.

[Naivewomen]

@what have I done. I know all about the feelings and emotions you are referring too. I had the samething. I too dont crave as much but something still lingers because we r not fulfilled at home.

[TheRainbow]

Instead of focusing on her, and trying to decipher every little crumb she throws your way, why not focus on yourself, your wants, and your marriage. It's obvious you are leaving the door with her open. She is looking at you as a back up plan. I'd block her on your phone, and focus on your own marriage or focus on ending it, because this isn't healthy.

[WhatIveDone]

@what have I done. I know all about the feelings and emotions you are referring too. I had the samething. I too dont crave as much but something still lingers because we r not fulfilled at home.

Exactly the same here – Something still lingers, all though I’m pretty sure we’re done. I guess the reason why I feel that way, is because we are still in contact. That keeps me aware of what she is up with her and every so often, the memories keeps coming back to me. But not as frequently as the first few months after our “break up” Somehow I kind of feel, that the fire inside of me is slowly dying. I think it has to do with the fact, that she is very moody and not all that funny and interesting at the moment. She hasn’t been for the last 4-5 months, so what kind of lured me into this “mess” is almost gone. We used to crack a lot of jokes, tell each other obscure and insane things, but that has mostly passed. I’m still approaching her with a sense of humor. She is laughing but not returning anything, so I somewhat feel, like I’m playing ping pong all by my self.

 

Instead of focusing on her, and trying to decipher every little crumb she throws your way, why not focus on yourself, your wants, and your marriage. It's obvious you are leaving the door with her open. She is looking at you as a back up plan. I'd block her on your phone, and focus on your own marriage or focus on ending it, because this isn't healthy.

I know I need to go silent on her – Completely silent and try and get her out of my head. I know I’m not only playing with fire, but also with my mental health – And hers as well.

[WhatIveDone]

But what still puzzles me is, that if someone truly wants to reconcile with BS, then wouldn’t you expect them to cut the other person out of their lives? I just think, if you don’t do that, you are not committed enough to that task. Your heart is not in it – That just shows lack of respect for the BS. Even if you are sincere about making an effort but still cling on to the other person on some level, you’re already half way to failure. To me it all comes down to black and white. You can’t have cake and eat it too, if you want to work on your marriage – Then you are most definitely not respecting or loving your BS enough.

[Naivewomen]

But what still puzzles me is, that if someone truly wants to reconcile with BS, then wouldn’t you expect them to cut the other person out of their lives? I just think, if you don’t do that, you are not committed enough to that task. Your heart is not in it – That just shows lack of respect for the BS. Even if you are sincere about making an effort but still cling on to the other person on some level, you’re already half way to failure. To me it all comes down to black and white. You can’t have cake and eat it too, if you want to work on your marriage – Then you are most definitely not respecting or loving your BS enough.

 

Bingo!!! Funny I knew for a fact he wanted both worlds so once he knew I was obsessed with him and accepted his tiny crumbs he threw my way he was putting in less effort and etc.

 

Oh the laughter and jokes!!! Thats was me and I saw him last week and I still keep it light and try to smile and make jokes. Same how I got into this mess too. We r both in the same arena. U too will become very emotionally unstable and when its NC for 100 days oh well that's a whole new ball game of inner strength that u will need to find. I am here for you!!! U seem more connected than she is!!! Theres always one sucker in the affair. Sorry, but it was me too!!