Accepting that I will never really know...

[chryssy83]

So I’m back here after years of absence. I guess sometimes even when we think we have found our happy ending it turns out to be something other than.

 

I am getting a divorce. 6 years of marriage, 2 kids. He was the one who was supposed to make sense of why I spent so much time being in the messes before.

 

Long story short, he was going on days when he was supposed to be working and spending time with a female coworker at her house. He took our older child on play dates with that woman and her child. He did this when I was at home with a newborn, when I was at work, even when I was at home. He gets caught. He claims it wasn’t an affair he just wanted “me time.” Begged me to stay with him. Then for the next few months when I say something has to change he promises it will, but tells me anything I want to do to fix it is fixing a problem that doesn’t exist. He’s not unhappy. He doesn’t think anything is wrong.

 

Then one day he invites me to a lunch date and I get there and at the end he tells me he’s not trying anymore and it’s over. I tried to talk him into counseling etc but he kept saying he was past that. Between that and what I believe was an affair, I just decided I can’t be married alone so I guess it’s done. We sold our house in less than 2 weeks which we didn’t expect at all because it was expensive and there aren’t a lot of buyers in that range. And now we live in separate rentals. We split the kids 50/50. They are four and one. I filed for divorce but he’s unrepresented so it hasn’t really gone anywhere.

 

I guess my first question is...I am in therapy and she says I need to accept that he doesn’t tell me the truth about what’s going so I will never logically fit together what the hell happened. How do I accept that?

 

For those here who are divorced with kids....how do I relate to him now? In the past I adhered with great success to NC once I started getting over people instead of letting them string me along. But now I am doing the best I can at NC aside from what’s necessary for the kids and it’s led to confusion about logistics and the divorce isn’t proceeding at all. He lights up like a Christmas tree when I speak to him, but I have only done it in person maybe 3 times in the last 6 weeks. He told me when he said he wasn’t going to be in the marriage anymore that our relationship wouldn’t really change because we were just roommates anyway but obviously that’s not true. I didn’t treat him like a roommate and now he’s way less than that. How do I emotionally divorce from someone when we have small kids in common?

[Mr. Lucky]

You should accept in advance that it isn't easy. While not a marriage, co-parenting is still a relationship, and it's one with its own needs and priorities. This means you have to bite your tongue, go along to get along and subvert your own feelings for the good of your children. In short, a sometimes humbling experience.

 

Those divorced parents I see doing the best job avoid the temptation to make it all about them. After my divorce, I decided early on to only take responsibility for my own words, conduct and actions. This meant, even if she wanted to make a petty fool of herself, it didn't trigger me because I stayed in my own lane.

 

Done right, it can actually be a growth experience. And seeing your kids continue to prosper despite Mom and Dad's break-up goes a long way towards making all those self-control moments worthwhile. In your case, you'll learn that it's OK to appreciate him as a father, even if he didn't earn that regard as a husband. When in doubt, take a long-term view...

 

Mr. Lucky

[The Dude Abides]

Hello

 

I don't have personal experience of divorce with children, but the people I have known who have gone through this all seem to have been most successful when following the advice Mr. Lucky put forth: take the long-term view.

 

One good friend in particular was CONSTANTLY dealing with crazy, crazy stuff from his ex-wife. He just continued to bite his tongue and eat sh*t, and took the long view that someday his daughter would grow up and hopefully would realize what reality was for her Dad. I saw all of this first hand because this buddy of mine and I were quite close and worked together a lot.

 

Sure enough, it played out just as he hoped it would. That daughter is now an adult, out of college, successful, loves her Dad, and freely says that she could see all along where the real problems were while she was growing up. And the terrible behavior on the part of her mother started at the daughter's age of about 4 (so about 20-plus years ago).

 

It was a long time coming but eventually the difficult, disciplined approach worked out for the best for dad and daughter.

[LivingWaterPlease]

Mr. Lucky and The Dudes advice are spot on.

 

I was divorced with young children. My ex was a jerk and my attorney told me, "LWP, I can make him follow the law but I can't make a gentleman out of him." There it is.

 

You just be as disconnected emotionally as possible, though it's almost impossible. What you can do is process your emotions with your friends. When your children are older they will know without a doubt exactly where the problems lie with the two of you.

 

Face that you and many others who divorce and have young children, are going to have a difficult time as you deal with the logistics of it. Do your best for your children's sakes to keep your emotions out of it.

 

I mentioned earlier how much of a jerk my ex was, though I was always kind and gracious. My ex married a woman after me whom he ended up leaving. My son told me recently that she was much more of a jerk to him than he even was to me. In other words, KARMA!

[Mr. Lucky]

My ex married a woman after me whom he ended up leaving. My son told me recently that she was much more of a jerk to him than he even was to me. In other words, KARMA!

 

Funny how it often works that way ...

 

Mr. Lucky

[vla1120]

I agree with what other people have said. You can maintain NC for everything except what directly involves your children. Something I learned before I was even married with children was that you have to take the high road and never talk to your children poorly about their other parent, regardless of that parent's behavior because children are made up of half their mom and half their dad, so when one parent bashes the other parent to their children, they are basically indicating that they hate half of their child. Children that endure that have a much harder time with the divorce. I hope that makes sense.

 

I am glad you have a therapist. What she says makes sense. I used to struggle with the fact that my abusive narcissistic husband really, really does not think he EVER does anything wrong. Everything is always someone else's fault. Being a logical person, I just don't understand how someone is not aware of their poor behavior, but I have had to learn to accept it. I learned your lesson in my first marriage. Cheaters lie. Once you realize that, you'll learn to question everything they tell you and you won't take action (or not take action) based on what they tell you, but what you know to be the truth and what is best for your children and you.

 

I am sorry that you find yourself here. Don't be hard on yourself. Take it one day at a time. In my state, you can divorce whether or not your spouse has representation. Hopefully, your lawyer can expedite this for you so that you can move forward.

[chryssy83]

I have never said anything negative to the kids about him and he doesn’t talk to me. We never fought or were mean to each other and we didn’t start being hateful when we split up. He doesn’t try to talk to me, he just acts really clingy with the kids and complains to people about how he doesn’t get enough time with the kids but then says he offers me extra time to be nice in hopes I’ll be nicer to him. I don’t even know what that means....I’m not mean I just don’t talk to him at all.

 

I don’t know how to communicate with him beyond what’s absolutely essential for the kids and I guess I don’t have to. But it seems like it’s not what he expected because he keeps telling people he has no life now other than the kids like he wants them to feel sorry for him. I don’t feel sorry for him, this is exactly what he wanted.

 

In my perfect world I would never talk to him again, I can’t believe that he lied to me, destroyed our family, and now I lose time with my kids. But he just denies the affair to everyone, complains about how much he misses his kids and acts like our marriage meant nothing. I don’t know how to be more communicative with him when I just have no respect for how he’s handled our life and family. He was careless with my feelings and I wouldn’t have had kids with him if I had known he thought divorce was okay if you just don’t feel happy....we had agreed before we married that divorce was only for abuse or infidelity. And the infidelity was his but he won’t admit it and says I’m just trying to blame someone else for my problems.

 

Will my feelings change with time? Will I stop feeling like I wish I could never see him again once we get more distance from married life? I just don’t know what to expect.

[vla1120]

Yes. With time, your feelings will change. Give yourself time, as much time as you need. Take this time to focus on yourself. When he has the kids, pick up some hobbies that maybe you've always wanted to try, but did not have the time. Go get a massage or get a mani/pedi. Go to a movie by yourself. Go out to dinner by yourself. Take care of yourself and learn to love YOU. Of course, it is also good to surround yourself by supportive friends and family. I've just learned recently that it's even better to spend some alone time to focus completely on YOU (something I've never been good at doing, but I am learning.)

 

Once you learn to value yourself, you will stop asking why things turned out the way they did and you'll realize it was HIS choice that he needs to own. I know by not telling you the truth, he's not owning it, but don't let that keep you from coming to terms with what has happened to the extent that it affects you and your children. You have no control over him, only how you move forward and you are going to be okay.

 

This is me telling you what my therapist is trying to get ME to understand. It's so easy to give someone else good advice. I need to learn to follow it myself!

[Mr. Lucky]

Will my feelings change with time? Will I stop feeling like I wish I could never see him again once we get more distance from married life? I just don’t know what to expect.

 

Actually, you seem to be talking about his feelings and actions. The bad news there is, you only get to be in charge of you. He'll continue to be vexing, frustrating, manipulative and provocative. What's under your control is your response - or lack thereof - and how you let it effect you.

 

Stay busy, focus on your kids, depend on friends and family and this too will pass. He only has the power you give him...

 

Mr. Lucky

[The Dude Abides]

Mr. Lucky and The Dudes advice are spot on.

 

 

 

 

I mentioned earlier how much of a jerk my ex was, though I was always kind and gracious. My ex married a woman after me whom he ended up leaving. My son told me recently that she was much more of a jerk to him than he even was to me. In other words, KARMA!

 

 

LWP, I don't know you and certainly will never meet you. But if I did, I would immediately offer up a Double High Five to you for your satisfying results you got, albeit somewhat delayed!

[The Dude Abides]

OP,

 

Have you ever watched "Cops" or any of the other reality police shows? I am always impressed when the show covers a cop or group of cops who are consummate professionals. No matter how nasty the suspect is, not matter how much they yell, curse, insult, etc etc, these cops keep their cool and do their job.

 

Easy to say and easy to watch, harder to do in practice. But I point this out as an example of where you are now. You did and have been doing the right thing (didn't cheat, didn't bad mouth the father of your children, didn't do things that negatively affect your children, etc.).

 

YOU can hold your head high and have the confidence that you have behaved like an adult. Your kids will pick up on this with time and as they grow up.

 

Your ex is a turd and he is a child. Someday he might just realize what he did, but maybe not and he will continue to waffle and whine to anyone who will listen.

 

Just try to be that calm and composed cop who is dealing with the drunken and belligerent knucklehead. Do your job (whatever is necessary for the kids) and not one bit more. Your ex is on his own now.

[littleblackheart]

Firstly, congrats on ironing out the practicalities of the separation so well - you already have separate lives, you've already decided on a 50/50 custody arrangement so the logistics side seems in order. It will feel more real and settled when things are more official legally (that can take some time), but this is a huge step towards a new sort of normality.

 

There will be a period of adjustment when you will both learn to communicate with each other differently for sure.

 

My children were your children's age when we first separated. I did the leaving (no regrets), it was not smooth sailing (exH was/is very abusive and sat on the divorce papers for a couple of years in a last ditch attempt at controlling my life) and there was a lot of trial and error, but what helped is that I kept firm on my boundaries once leaving for good.

 

The self-doubt and mother guilt can be a killer for sure, and you will probably never fully know what went down (I'm still learning things about exH a few years on!) but it doesn't really matter. You know enough now to have decided not to be with him; that's all you need.

 

Good luck on this new journey.

Edited January 23, 2019 by littleblackheart

[chryssy83]

You guys are the best stop gap between therapy appointments, I tell you...

 

So far I’ve been going to a personal trainer, cooking new recipes, reading several books (some about divorce and parenting, some just fiction), catching up on television I didn’t have time to watch before, making new friends. Trying to get back into church is on my list and eventually when the divorce is final I can buy another house and I want to do some diy. I have a job that is pretty freaking cool and I’m taking on a couple of new professional opportunities this year that I would have turned down if I was considering his opinion. He always wanted us home every night and we agreed to focus on his career because he makes way more. But now I can pursue my own growth because my career is important again as more than just my hobby.

 

Sigh. This just really sucks because of the kids. I wanted them to grow up in an intact family and have a good healthy example of a marriage in their parents. Now I don’t have as much control over how they grow up because they are only here part of the time. I know I will be okay, I can take care of myself but I also want to just stop having this irritated disgusted feeling toward him and instead feel nothing at all.

 

You guys really are good, though...thank you.

[BaileyB]

Actually, you seem to be talking about his feelings and actions. The bad news there is, you only get to be in charge of you. He'll continue to be vexing, frustrating, manipulative and provocative. What's under your control is your response - or lack thereof - and how you let it effect you.

 

Stay busy, focus on your kids, depend on friends and family and this too will pass. He only has the power you give him...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

I think you missed your calling. You should have been a counsellor.

 

My favorite quote is from the Best Exotic Marigold Hotel. “Everything will be all right in the end. If it's not all right, it is not yet the end...” Give it time, you will find a new normal. You will be happy again.

[Turning point]

Your ex has about as much maturity and emotional appeal as a pomegranate. Good for you in making swift change. In time, your emotions will follow.

 

As far as it matters - you DO know what happened. He told you he was all about his "me time" and made that his priority. He proceeded in every way that matters to think and act only for himself. That's likely to be a consistent pattern in his life and though you are free of it - the children are not.

 

Eventually, people will get tired of hearing his "me stories" about what his life is like now and how he's all about the kids, etc. When the kids no longer make good characters in his narrative his "me time" will probably take the driver's seat. Keep an eye on this because you may want to seek a greater share of physical custody if this guy can't sustain a healthy relationship and be fully present with his children.

[chryssy83]

 

Eventually, people will get tired of hearing his "me stories" about what his life is like now and how he's all about the kids, etc. When the kids no longer make good characters in his narrative his "me time" will probably take the driver's seat. Keep an eye on this because you may want to seek a greater share of physical custody if this guy can't sustain a healthy relationship and be fully present with his children.

 

 

This scares me so much! I know even now when he’s spending every moment with them he can that the fact that he has to tell everyone about it (and he’s alwaus FaceTiming them when they are with our sitter during the day and he has coworkers with him on the calls) is an indication that the contact is about him and not them. He was never like this before, he had hours every week he could have been with the kids but he spent at his work “friend’s.” But even now it’s a lot of pressure for a 4 year old to be made to feel responsible for his dad’s emotional well-being and that’s what happens. He acts like he can’t survive without seeing him or talking to him.

 

When he told me he was done with our marriage I listed things we could try to do to fix it and he said they wouldn’t work. I said you don’t know because you didn’t try. And he said okay I was right, they could work but they won’t bevause he’s just not going to do them. He said that he doesn’t want to change and I am not going to change in the ways he wants so there is no point and he was going to leave to have his chance at happiness. I go back over it in my head when I’m thinking maybe I should have done more to save my family because that’s the bottom line—he is more important to himself than the family is to him and he’s going to do whatever he thinks will make him happy no matter what it costs the rest of us. And I hate that I can make myself less vulnerable to being hurt by that again but the kids cannot.

[Mr. Lucky]

When he told me he was done with our marriage I listed things we could try to do to fix it and he said they wouldn’t work. I said you don’t know because you didn’t try. And he said okay I was right, they could work but they won’t bevause he’s just not going to do them. He said that he doesn’t want to change and I am not going to change in the ways he wants so there is no point and he was going to leave to have his chance at happiness. I go back over it in my head when I’m thinking maybe I should have done more to save my family because that’s the bottom line—he is more important to himself than the family is to him and he’s going to do whatever he thinks will make him happy no matter what it costs the rest of us. And I hate that I can make myself less vulnerable to being hurt by that again but the kids cannot.

 

chryssy83, a marriage is obviously between two people, so one person can't chose to be married or save the relationship when the other clearly has different ideas. So not much you could do the save things when he's already out the door.

 

My ex-wife and I divorced when our son was 3. Rocky at first, but we soon settled into a normal routine of co-parenting in our new lives. It was different for my son, but different doesn't necessarily mean worse. Focus on your end, put your fears aside and deal with the issues one at a time as they arise. This too will pass...

 

Mr. Lucky

[Turning point]

This scares me so much! I know even now when he’s spending every moment with them he can that the fact that he has to tell everyone about it (and he’s alwaus FaceTiming them when they are with our sitter during the day and he has coworkers with him on the calls) is an indication that the contact is about him and not them. He was never like this before, he had hours every week he could have been with the kids but he spent at his work “friend’s.” But even now it’s a lot of pressure for a 4 year old to be made to feel responsible for his dad’s emotional well-being and that’s what happens. He acts like he can’t survive without seeing him or talking to him.

 

When he told me he was done with our marriage I listed things we could try to do to fix it and he said they wouldn’t work. I said you don’t know because you didn’t try. And he said okay I was right, they could work but they won’t because he’s just not going to do them. He said that he doesn’t want to change and I am not going to change in the ways he wants so there is no point and he was going to leave to have his chance at happiness. I go back over it in my head when I’m thinking maybe I should have done more to save my family because that’s the bottom line—he is more important to himself than the family is to him and he’s going to do whatever he thinks will make him happy no matter what it costs the rest of us. And I hate that I can make myself less vulnerable to being hurt by that again but the kids cannot.

 

Be grateful that you are separated from him. You have already advanced so far in such little time but, can't see it well enough to be grateful. Forget about "him" - he's obviously got that covered 180% You do you and help your kids do a healthy self.

 

Your kids will come to know the difference even if they can't fully put it into words. Every child (every person, really) knows what it's like to be with someone who makes you feel invisible. Your husband's habit of accessorizing himself with the children will not go undetected. Your children will grow to appreciate your stability, your understanding, and most of all your predictable presence in their lives.

 

You don't have to react to your ex. You don't have to change him. You don't have to convince your kids who's the better parent, or criticize the other parent. Just be accepting and when your child tells you something seems unfair (and it really is unfair) just agree with them and confirm their own perceptions sans judgement. If you do nothing more than reflect validity of their own perceptions they will remain grounded enough to grow their own boundaries and safe relationship with their dad.

 

Their self centered father is not by itself so dangerous. You just want to be aware of the subtle gas-lighting that develops between his lack of empathy and a child's notion of parental infallibility. You seem to be doing just fine. Don't sweat the co-workers and people who's ear he's training. These flying monkeys will leave as soon as someone drops a pail of water on him.

Edited January 25, 2019 by Turning point

[chryssy83]

So next on my list of things I can’t accept—- this husband of mine was lying and going to this female coworker’s house and left me and ripped our kids lives in two and yet I can’t seem to accept that he’s not - good husband. Why do I sometimes question if he was just hurt or maybe he’s telling the truth about no affair? Why do I feel like he will be the husband he promised he would be with someone else, which would mean I somehow just didn’t bring that out in him? Why can’t I just accept that he was a liar and a cheater who didn’t honor his promises to me and made all our lives more difficult? That he didn’t make me feel loved or supported or safe? Why is it that I would even question if losing him was a loss when I don’t even miss him the way he was I just mourn the loss of what I wanted him to be?

[Mr. Lucky]

Why do I feel like he will be the husband he promised he would be with someone else, which would mean I somehow just didn’t bring that out in him?

 

Actually, much more likely he'll be the same husband with someone else he was with you. Which means, when the first difficulty presents itself, his attention will turn elsewhere.

 

You've been given the gift of a new life without lying, manipulating, gaslighting or cheating. Take it and run...

 

Mr. Lucky

[chryssy83]

I stupidly broke NC by sending him texts and he responded for the first time today. He just said that I was wrong about his relationship with his coworker, that he wants me to be happy and he regrets hurting me. Said that he wants me to be happy and heÂ’s sorry I feel anger and hatred toward him.

 

I responded that he doesnÂ’t show it and then basically described how horrible itÂ’s been to be lied to. Of course he didnÂ’t respond.

 

Such a dumb mistake, now I feel horrible. HeÂ’s never going to admit to an affair and he doesnÂ’t treat me like heÂ’s sorry for anything or like he cares about my wellbeing. I donÂ’t know why I let myself do that. I am not sure if I should make a therapy appointment or what but I feel awful. It makes me feel crazy that he still insists that he didnÂ’t cheat on me when I know he did and it makes me feel so rejected when I think back to all of the neglect and now this abandonment. I just want to feel better and I donÂ’t know how. I feel like because we have kids I will be stuck like this forever.

[chryssy83]

Today we talked on the phone about a parenting issue and he said at the end that he knew it would make me mad but he wanted to say he really enjoyed our conversation today. What is wrong with people?!?

[vla1120]

Today we talked on the phone about a parenting issue and he said at the end that he knew it would make me mad but he wanted to say he really enjoyed our conversation today. What is wrong with people?!?

 

I honestly don't know what makes some people take that knife and twist it, or push buttons they know we will respond to. In my case (and I'm still working on it), I try to think of it as him exerting his perceived "power" over me by pushing buttons to which he knows I will respond. I try not to give him that power by not responding in the way he expects (or not responding at all.) But then I feel like not responding at all gives him a message that it's okay to speak to me or treat me in that manner, which is not okay.

 

So, in short, I have NO idea but I sometimes think we shouldn't even waste the 3-5 minutes of our lives we spend thinking about the way certain people behave because we'll never figure it out and I don't want to give HIM the satisfaction of taking up real estate in my brain!

[The Dude Abides]

Hello Chryssy

 

I know this sounds cliched, but the fact that your ex was willing to run around and be deceitful while married means....that he is willing to run around be deceitful now that you are not with him. This is who he is and how he does things. Of course he is going to lie to other people about how things went down. Of course he is going to try to paint himself in the best possible light and downplay and minimize anything he did that was bad. Of course he is going to try and manipulate your emotions. And of course he is going to continue to play games with you and everyone who has some stake in this situation. And yes, he will continue to lie and cheat and fool around with the next woman and the next and so on.

 

I recall from other posts that you are self-sufficient professionally? That puts you way ahead of many other women who have been left high and dry by philandering husbands. I am not minimizing the emotional whack to your soul by this man's behaviors, but instead urge you to realize that you are a smart lady and can work your way through this while you do the best you can for your children. Don't expect much good from the man who didn't do much good for you. He isn't able to deliver any of that .

[DKT3]

What were the circumstances around you two being married? I ask because it kinda sounds like he never really wanted to get married.

 

If he had an affair or not can be a difficult thing to figure out. It sounds like he was at least having an emotional affair, the problem is so many people believe that it's not cheating unless there is actual intercourse. So if he hadn't had intercourse with her and he believes this way your beating a dead horse.

 

NC is impossible with kids in general, but with small children communicating often is necessary. We divorced when our children were toddlers and it was a mess because I wouldn't talk to her. We relied heavily on email but so much can be lost in one way dialog. Lots of missed appointments, late pick ups and overall confused kids.