Accepting that I will never really know...

[chryssy83]

What were the circumstances around you two being married? I ask because it kinda sounds like he never really wanted to get married.

 

If he had an affair or not can be a difficult thing to figure out. It sounds like he was at least having an emotional affair, the problem is so many people believe that it's not cheating unless there is actual intercourse. So if he hadn't had intercourse with her and he believes this way your beating a dead horse.

 

NC is impossible with kids in general, but with small children communicating often is necessary. We divorced when our children were toddlers and it was a mess because I wouldn't talk to her. We relied heavily on email but so much can be lost in one way dialog. Lots of missed appointments, late pick ups and overall confused kids.

 

 

He wanted to get married ASAP. He bought the ring and proposed a month before I expected because he said it was burning a hole in his pocket. We had previously agreed to wait longer just to avoid looking too crazy. Before we were even engaged he had booked the wedding venue because he didn’t want to wait and it was our anniversary of our first date at a hard to book venue. So I said I’m not booking a wedding when I’m not even engaged and he said fine, he would. So he put down the deposit etc and picked our date on his own. There was no pregnancy or ultimatum etc. and we were both about 30 and never had been married.

[stillafool]

It doesn't really matter if your husband admits that he cheated or not as you feel you know the truth which is he did cheat. Don't burden your mind expecting and wanting him to admit it. It won't change the fact that you two are divorced and moving on with your lives. I think he was honest that he is sorry he hurt you and he hopes you will find happiness.

[Turning point]

So next on my list of things I can’t accept—- this husband of mine was lying and going to this female coworker’s house and left me and ripped our kids lives in two and yet I can’t seem to accept that he’s not - good husband. Why do I sometimes question if he was just hurt or maybe he’s telling the truth about no affair? Why do I feel like he will be the husband he promised he would be with someone else, which would mean I somehow just didn’t bring that out in him? Why can’t I just accept that he was a liar and a cheater who didn’t honor his promises to me and made all our lives more difficult? That he didn’t make me feel loved or supported or safe? Why is it that I would even question if losing him was a loss when I don’t even miss him the way he was I just mourn the loss of what I wanted him to be?

 

We divorce because we don't trust our spouse and we don't feel safe. It takes a little longer to realize that the experience of being duped like this undermines our ability to trust ourselves and feel safe with our own choices.

 

If I knew the material reason for all of these doubts and fears perhaps the last 15 years of my life might have been different. I don't know that I have an answer for this even now, but I think you do - because you acted courageously in a way I couldn't. Your instincts appear to be faster than mine were then, even if your emotions are still trying to catch up.

 

What I know today is that I'm human, and I'm compassionate to such an extent that I can't really fathom the gap or disconnect that other people like your husband or my own STBX seem to have with respect to empathy and their own lack of staying power. They can change the people in their lives as easily as you and I change shoes.

 

What I learned to accept is that the product and the packaging don't match. On the outside everything is represented just as we want it to be. That packaging persists as they cut us lose and move from one customer to the next. You and I however are among the people left to write the product reviews: "Does Not Perform as Advertised"

 

Perhaps your husband is like this unwittingly, which is why he might appear to you now as a benevolent contradiction. My case was far more malevolent. Either way, we end up with the same shaken sense of our own ability to make sound choices.

 

We divorce because we don't trust our spouse and we don't feel safe. It takes a little longer to realize that the experience of being duped like this undermines our ability to trust ourselves and feel safe with our own choices.

[chryssy83]

It doesn't really matter if your husband admits that he cheated or not as you feel you know the truth which is he did cheat. Don't burden your mind expecting and wanting him to admit it. It won't change the fact that you two are divorced and moving on with your lives. I think he was honest that he is sorry he hurt you and he hopes you will find happiness.

 

 

We aren’t actually divorced, he was just served with requests for documents because he won’t give me access to our phone records and he put money somewhere I can’t access and keeps saying it’s a bookkeeping error he will fix.

 

The thing about being sorry is that he’s not sorry. When he gets caught doing something he apologizes, tells me that I will see someday how much better it will be/that he can fix it. And then he goes and does something worse. Now he runs around telling people it was a mutual split, everything is already agreed to and we aren’t getting attorneys. I have an attorney and we have no agreements. He acts super happy and never acknowledges how I feel or asks if I’m okay. Didn’t help me move a single item out of our house or clean etc when it sold. He just took what I packed for him to take and that’s it. He doesn’t care that he hurt me or he wouldn’t have done it over and over and over.

[Turning point]

It doesn't really matter if your husband admits that he cheated or not as you feel you know the truth which is he did cheat. Don't burden your mind expecting and wanting him to admit it.

 

I agree. The depth of his affair doesn't matter. The ultimate cause for divorce is the shallowness of his care and devotion to you and the marital relationship.

 

Roommates? Seriously, let that sink in a bit ...mom.

[chryssy83]

We divorce because we don't trust our spouse and we don't feel safe. It takes a little longer to realize that the experience of being duped like this undermines our ability to trust ourselves and feel safe with our own choices.

 

 

My therapist said at my last appt that I need to trust myself more because I tend to try to give him the benefit of the doubt when my gut and his history say he is lying. She says I have a good gut feeling and I know what to do, but that I let what he says override what I know to be true.

 

The thing is that when he lied and I confronted him he would offer to prove that he was truthful later (and then never do it), he would make up a new lie that might prove more palatable, or he would just say if I didn’t believe him that was my choice. Like my fault....if I don’t believe a major company fed exed him 8k in cash, if I don’t believe that he sold furniture to someone who didn’t pay up and he just let it go because it was only a house full of furniture, if I didn’t believe that his sister in law was lying when she told me he had been unfaithful with the same woman for at least 2 years and that’s why she doesn’t like him (even though he wouldn’t confront her about telling such a damaging “lie”to his wife). If I questioned these things I just needed to have more faith in him and believe in him.

 

When he said he would not try anymore in our marriage he literally yelled at me “why can’t you just be happy?” He said he would not try and he would not be accountable to me and then asked why I wasn’t happy in back to back parts of the same conversation. And I walk away wondering well if I just acted happier would he love me more and treat me better. Because somehow I always think it’s my fault and then he’s super nice and happy and it seems like maybe it is all my problem/in my head because he never feels guilty or sad or worried about me or anything. Just always happy and friendly and nice no matter what.

[Turning point]

We aren’t actually divorced, he was just served with requests for documents because he won’t give me access to our phone records and he put money somewhere I can’t access and keeps saying it’s a bookkeeping error he will fix.

 

The thing about being sorry is that he’s not sorry. When he gets caught doing something he apologizes, tells me that I will see someday how much better it will be/that he can fix it. And then he goes and does something worse. Now he runs around telling people it was a mutual split, everything is already agreed to and we aren’t getting attorneys. I have an attorney and we have no agreements. He acts super happy and never acknowledges how I feel or asks if I’m okay. Didn’t help me move a single item out of our house or clean etc when it sold. He just took what I packed for him to take and that’s it. He doesn’t care that he hurt me or he wouldn’t have done it over and over and over.

 

Lots of red flags here.

The affair is probably longer and more sinister than you know but, I suggest you not go down that rabbit hole there's nothing to be gained there. Focus on getting the divorce done ASAP.

 

Did I mention ASAP? Do not agree to forego an attorney. Not with all of these red flags. I think you said you're an attorney yourself in another field but, have the self respect to follow your own advice (as you would give to others) and use a divorce attorney.

[chryssy83]

That’s only a few of the big red flags and I do have a lawyer. We are trying to put together a settlement proposal but need to get records from his employer first. I would never agree to get divorced without a lawyer. If I did a divorce the people would end up divorced at the end, but it’s sort of like how you don’t go to a heart surgeon for brain surgery and you don’t operate on your own kid if you’re a dr. I need someone to advocate for me who isn’t emotionally involved and who focuses on this area of the law.

 

Oh and I first accused him of having an affair with her in 2014.

[Turning point]

My therapist said at my last appt that I need to trust myself more because I tend to try to give him the benefit of the doubt when my gut and his history say he is lying. She says I have a good gut feeling and I know what to do, but that I let what he says override what I know to be true.

 

Yes. Yes, and holy crap yes. You have a very good therapist and that's not easy to find.

 

Learning to trust my gut has been key. Giving people the benefit of the doubt comes naturally, but training in law, sciences, etc. all condition us to take it even further and get too analytical.

 

The thing is that when he lied and I confronted him he would offer to prove that he was truthful later (and then never do it), he would make up a new lie that might prove more palatable, or he would just say if I didn’t believe him that was my choice. Like my fault....if I don’t believe a major company fed exed him 8k in cash, if I don’t believe that he sold furniture to someone who didn’t pay up and he just let it go because it was only a house full of furniture, if I didn’t believe that his sister in law was lying when she told me he had been unfaithful with the same woman for at least 2 years and that’s why she doesn’t like him (even though he wouldn’t confront her about telling such a damaging “lie”to his wife). If I questioned these things I just needed to have more faith in him and believe in him.

 

When he said he would not try anymore in our marriage he literally yelled at me “why can’t you just be happy?” He said he would not try and he would not be accountable to me and then asked why I wasn’t happy in back to back parts of the same conversation. And I walk away wondering well if I just acted happier would he love me more and treat me better. Because somehow I always think it’s my fault and then he’s super nice and happy and it seems like maybe it is all my problem/in my head because he never feels guilty or sad or worried about me or anything. Just always happy and friendly and nice no matter what.

All of this is gaslighting. It's a horrible thing to do to someone - undermining their own perceptions of reality. Bless you for getting out of this marriage. The long term consequences of gaslighting are a form of PTSD. If you let go of the nonsense, refrain from trying to untangle it, you will have dodged a bullet.

[Turning point]

Oh and I first accused him of having an affair with her in 2014.

 

So many eerie similarities in the kind of information and image management they do.

 

You're very well on track. You might not see it yet, but I think God was smiling in your direction when your house sold in just 2 weeks.