some_username1 Posted November 16, 2019 Share Posted November 16, 2019 With all due respect, you’ve won the lottery mate, but you just don’t know it. So sad. Link to post Share on other sites
Author thr1986 Posted November 16, 2019 Author Share Posted November 16, 2019 Do you think there is any scenario where she was genuine about asking me to create and embryo with her at that time (3 months after meeting Me)? Is it possible that she was genuinely worried about her ability to harvest eggs in the future and actually wanted to create one with me? Link to post Share on other sites
Versacehottie Posted November 16, 2019 Share Posted November 16, 2019 It just bothers me that she’s ignoring me. It’s unlike her. WHAT???? Sorry it's also YOU that is part of this toxic mess. You say you're done and then expect things to continue as normal in terms of contact. That's not healthy. Are you or are you NOT broken up? If you are broken up, respect that, respect the process and respect yourself and stop contact. It's that simple for that portion. How do you expect to get over her and stop this madness if you stay in contact, effectively staying in negotiations with her. You are doing this to yourself now. You are both acting in unhealthy ways. Also you said she loved, cherished and praised you for how you are "nice" but then she also took that information and took advantage of you (or tried to) and steamrolled you. So don't mistake past words of praise for future treatment. I would say how she takes you for granted now is how the relationship would be going forward. She takes your kindness for weakness and plans to use it as such if you are partners. Make no mistake that is the dynamic after the initial stages and is not bound to change. Lastly, let's not forget the MOST important part, a few posts ago you said you didn't think life was worth living. You must deal with that first. This is not safe. You should see someone immediately. Link to post Share on other sites
LivingWaterPlease Posted November 16, 2019 Share Posted November 16, 2019 Do you think there is any scenario where she was genuine about asking me to create and embryo with her at that time (3 months after meeting Me)? Is it possible that she was genuinely worried about her ability to harvest eggs in the future and actually wanted to create one with me? Of course she genuinely wanted you to be the one she took advantage of, hooked in financially, and manipulated into providing money and possibly sperm for her baby. Isn't that what this whole thread is about? Her hooks sinking into your pocketbook and life deeply while she still had eggs to harvest? Link to post Share on other sites
LivingWaterPlease Posted November 16, 2019 Share Posted November 16, 2019 t, I don't mean to be harsh with you (post #238). Your ex may have had an emotional connection with you and was attracted to you, most likely, even. It's just that her selfish manipulative side over rode any common sense she may have had as she attempted to jerk you around trying to get her way. Her being a psychotherapist IMO makes this even more egregious. She knew exactly what she was doing and how to do it. Ultimately, she was selfish and cared mostly for herself and her own agenda. The great ending to this is that you've decided not to be her victim! Good for you! You were man enough to say, "No ma'am!" and walk away! I understand that at this point you're processing your emotions here. And that's a whole lot better than ignoring them and moving on without dealing with the issues. There are men who would have fallen for her plot, but you didn't! Way to go! Keep posting if you need to! Any posts that may seem harsh are only for the purpose of serving to help you see things clearly and put this behind you in as short order as possible! 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author thr1986 Posted November 16, 2019 Author Share Posted November 16, 2019 I don’t mean to be repetitive with you guys. This thread has become something that helps me so much and I look to it every day it seems. I’ve thought so much about how to put my feelings down here simple enough for everyone to understand. This is what I’ve come up with: If there is ANY way that she was genuine and she was simply the victim of this genetic problem and she was just feeling a immediate rush to utalize the few eggs the poor girl has left AND she genuinely loved me and her asking me to create an embryo with her was ONLY because she truly loves me and wants to seize her last opportunity to make one...then how could I ever fault her for that and I definitely love her and I want to be with her. BUT... If she was being manipulative and wanted me to help pay for her to harvest more eggs because she didn’t want to spend any more money on it and further if she wanted to hook me with an embryo and have me indebted to her- then of course I don’t want to be with her. My problem is this: I somehow CANT decide which it was. I didn’t pay for anything and she dropped it and didn’t bring it up again. But, she did ask me to sign and be the father of her baby when she transferred the donor embryo. She asked me to do this just a couple of months after the embryo question. It felt a little bit like a second attempt to hook me? Or maybe she was feeling pressured and wanted to define my place when the baby came into the world for the health of it and for us. I just can’t decide if her intentions were good or were bad. And I’m stuck in this hole of ambivalence and emotion about this. How do I know for sure? I need to know for sure! When I asked her, you heard how she freaked out and ignored me. Ugh I’m just a mess because of all of this. I can’t stop crying and I can’t organize my feelings Link to post Share on other sites
preraph Posted November 16, 2019 Share Posted November 16, 2019 No. What she is asking is completely unreasonable and probably just a way to get you to pay up. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
LivingWaterPlease Posted November 16, 2019 Share Posted November 16, 2019 t, you're confused about her motives because of your pure heart. Look at your post. You describe her as the "poor girl." It's possible that in her desperation she came off that way to you. But, even if there's some of that element in her psyche and that played into this situation, it would mean she's not an appropriate partner for anyone right now. You need to be with a grown woman who has good judgement in order to have a healthy relationship. She is a grown woman, a psychotherapist, to boot. Both of which are big parts of what makes this scenario untenable. A grown woman should have had the maturity and good sense to realize the situation she proposed, though it would satisfy her own longings, was not fair to you. An unselfish grown woman wouldn't have suggested it. What she suggested to you was very selfish. Add to this the fact she's a psychotherapist and it's beyond the pale for her to have not only suggested this arrangement but also tried to rope you in on it. Part of the training a psychotherapist goes through is to do individual counseling and look deeply inward to one's self. So she is trained to not only work with others, but to look within and evaluate her own motives and perspectives about situations. Yet in spite of all of what she knows, her selfishness kicked in and overrode it all. And she used her knowledge to basically hurt you. Because what she proposed was extremely unfair to you, even if she wanted to marry you. That's not the healthy way for you to enter into a marriage. However, your emotional health wasn't her priority. Her priority is not even the baby she desires. Her priority is herself. Even then what she proposed wasn't healthy in the long term for herself. To enter into a R or marriage in this selfish way is just foolish and childish. Because of her training she knows that. Yet she still forged ahead with her plan and now she is throwing a tantrum of not speaking to you because she couldn't manipulate you. She very well could have had deep emotions for you and been attracted to you. BUT, she wanted to pull you into a quicksand environment. She should have recognized the quicksand, the danger. But either she didn't recognize it which shows extremely poor judgement, or she recognized it and didn't care about your safety. She could be just a very confused person. She could be evil. She could be a mixture of both. She IS extremely entitled, selfish and definitely a very poor candidate for a stable relationship with anyone, not just with you. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
BaileyB Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 I just can’t decide if her intentions were good or were bad. And I’m stuck in this hole of ambivalence and emotion about this. How do I know for sure? I need to know for sure! When I asked her, you heard how she freaked out and ignored me. And that is exactly how you know that she was manipulating you. Listen, everyone here has told you - a woman with good intentions does not ask a man that that she barely knows to have a baby/fund her infertility treatments. You may have seen this as a sign of her undying love for you, but a woman with good intentions toward a man does not do this! And a woman with good intentions does not freak out and ignore you when you say no to her totally unreasonable request. Period. My friend, I say this with kindness... She saw you coming and she used you in the worst way that a woman could use a man. She knew you were lonely, she knew you were wanting to be loved - so she loved you. You were vulnerable and she attempted to exploit your weakness for her own purpose. You did win the lottery when she ended the relationship, you truly don’t know it. There would have been no happy ending with this woman. You will not get closure by talking with her again. If you want to help yourself, you would be wise to find yourself a good counsellor and talk about healthy boundaries. Link to post Share on other sites
Author thr1986 Posted November 17, 2019 Author Share Posted November 17, 2019 My heart is completely broken Link to post Share on other sites
preraph Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 Why are you even communicating with her now? You know -it’s possible she takes money from new men she dates and never has the IVF done. Wouldn’t that be a great way to obtain a large amount of money as a woman? She almost scammed you. Be done with her. She wanted to use you not love you. That's the most likely scenario by far. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
preraph Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 Sorry you're hurting, but if you can fall in love with her, you can fall in love with LOTS of women. So it will all be okay. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
BaileyB Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 My heart is completely broken My friend, no woman is ever worth this much grief - especially one who has attempted to manipulate you this way. If you are feeling this heartbroken, that shows that you had an unhealthy attachment to this woman and/or you need to work on your self esteem. Do you have a counsellor? You really do need to find someone who can help you to understand why you let this woman into your life, and why you kept her around for so long despite all evidence pointing to the fact that there were some serious dealbreakers here. Focus on the hurt, and you will continue to suffer. Focus on the lesson, and you will continue to grow.. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
Versacehottie Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 ok, i have compassion for a broken heart but you need to take ACTIVE steps to deal with it. It's a problem that communication with her just prolongs your recovery. At this point you are part of the problem, i.e. you are doing this to yourself by re-opening the wound every time and communicating with her. I typically don't agree to make one person the villain and the other the saint. There are things in this long thread that show that your own actions have played a role in where you are now, no matter how manipulative she is (which is way up there, let's face it). I think you need counseling immediately. Lastly, i forgot to say this before but is there a chance that you "led" with your money or success. It seems as if BOTH of you are keeping track financially, tit for tat and it's a power struggle. I feel like half of the reason you are devastated is because you feel used. If you want people to like you for you, try not to lead with your money/financial success next time--make it a non-factor. I also am not sure based on these posts if you are just tight with money overall, despite her gold digging nature. Anyway, i can see some inconsistencies. This is minor in light of everything going on. You need to deal with your mental health (talking about ending things is priority one to get yourself out of that headspace). Self-esteem that helps you recover from heartbreak is close second. BTW, i don't remember what the phenomena is called but each time you go back and forth with a person, psychologically you actually get more attached. It's because it becomes an ego thing, like a personal challenge, something that affects your own identity. I think you should see if you can find some of the info on that. Understanding that your brain is going to override logical thought because of all the back and forth and manipulation that has gone on might help you realize she isn't all that great (in fact the contrary!) and you will survive. You just need to start reprograming (and first step is understanding what is going on with you) your mind. Link to post Share on other sites
LivingWaterPlease Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 I'm so sorry your heart is broken, thr. It hurts when things go wrong in a relationship a person had high hopes for. And I know there aren't words we can say to make it better but we are here to listen/read your posts as you process what you're going through. (((((thr))))) Link to post Share on other sites
Author thr1986 Posted November 17, 2019 Author Share Posted November 17, 2019 You all are so helpful, thank you. I agree that I need to understand the subconscious processes at work making me want her and fixated on my “love” for her when she clearly wasn’t a fit partner. Most people would not want her after these things have taken place. I don’t know why I still feel love for her after all of this. Are any of you happily matched with someone? How did you know? How will I know? 1 Link to post Share on other sites
salparadise Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 The hardest thing is that I want the things she said and the feelings we felt to be real so badly that I keep holding on. I don’t want to believe that she was calculated. I don’t want to believe that she was looking to try and take advantage. And because I don’t want to believe that, I keep holding on. It’s hard to see the truth. It's not hard to see. You see it because it has been pointed out to you time and time again in this thread by many people. What you're having trouble with is accepting how inherently manipulative and disingenuous she is. She knows that you're a sensitive soul, a soft touch, lonely, needing love and acceptance. She has an agenda –– you have the ability to finance it, along with the emotional vulnerability to make you an easy target. It's a perfect storm! I saw her yesterday, just because she asked me to go shopping with her. She reiterated that she asked me to help pay because she thought I would treat the whole thing differently if I was financially invested. She explained that she has always been there to support and love me and talk things through with me. Truthfully, she has usually been very open to talk things through with me. The intimacy and love I do miss. She even details her manipulative tactics. Of course you would feel differently if you were financially invested! And not coincidentally, you would also be out the 20-30k. You'd really be on the hook then, so heavily invested in believing it's real that you'd keep on pumping money into it. This is exactly how Nigerian romance scammers work their victims –– once they're invested financially they find it impossible to believe it's not real. And of course she's wiling to talk and do the intimacy part. That's your vulnerability, the need you can't get past, the key to your bank account. You see it, but your emotional need gets in the way. You're addicted to the drug cocktail of emotional acceptance, and fully believing that she only wants your money creates dissonance. Your psyche cannot reconcile that you are worthy of being loved for who you are, and that all she cares about is your money. You need to get this sorted out once and for all so that you'll be ready for a wonderful woman who actually will love you for who you are. 1. Cut her off completely, cold turkey. 2. Get a really good therapist and work on your inherent sense of worthiness. 3. Go out with nice women and eventually have a healthy relationship. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
LivingWaterPlease Posted November 18, 2019 Share Posted November 18, 2019 You are hooked into her because she was able to be very emotional with you. Not all people are able to express emotions so that this woman seemed special to you when compared with others. You're very normal in being hooked by her emotional, warm and tender expressions. Nothing to run from there IF she had not also asked for money and what amounts to a lifetime commitment as a father. Link to post Share on other sites
Mr. Lucky Posted November 18, 2019 Share Posted November 18, 2019 How will I know? They won’t ask you for thousands of dollars a few months into the relationship, amongst the other red flags here. Real relationships are usually pretty smooth sailing, at least initially... Mr. Lucky Link to post Share on other sites
Author thr1986 Posted November 18, 2019 Author Share Posted November 18, 2019 I remember the feeling back in January when she brought up the embryo topic. At that point I knew she was becoming infertile and I knew she was planning to have a baby via IVF on her own. I told her I was ok with that (and I was). But when she asked me to be biologically involved and then to help pay for it, it felt really strange. I remember laying there with this strange feeling. It felt weird that she would even want to include me in on it at that point. I had just met her 3 months previous. Then, I respectfully and sweetly declined of course. She seemed embarrassed and didn’t bring it up again. However, about 3-4 weeks later, we were talking about her having her IVF baby later in the year and she asked me if I would be the father, by signing the birth certificate at the time of birth making me the legal father. It felt like she was trying to hook me again. It felt weird that she would want me to do this as she was already doing this on her own before she met me and she seemed completely confident in everything. We briefly broke up a couple of months later because I felt I couldn’t continue in the relationship. The breakup lasted 3 days. Then I contacted her and we got back together. When we got back together she acted like she wasn’t sure if she wanted to accept me back. Part of us getting back together included her wanting to know what my place in the relationship with her future baby would be. She wanted to know how finances would be set up when we get married. She was sure to clairiify she would want us to combine incomes and live off of that, including the baby. It just seemed strange that this seemed so important to her. I kept feeling like, why can’t we just be together and let our relationship flourish and build. These things and these topics will come up as they need to. We don’t have to force them so early. Link to post Share on other sites
Author thr1986 Posted November 18, 2019 Author Share Posted November 18, 2019 The general feeling on my end was, “we have such a wonderful relationship going right now, why complicate it like this”. She seemed to have everything under control regarding her fertility efforts. It just seemed weird to bring me into it, especially that early in our relationship. Link to post Share on other sites
vla1120 Posted November 18, 2019 Share Posted November 18, 2019 Okay, thr1986, you asked how someone knows when a relationship is real. Mr. Lucky gave a very good response. Here's another response from me, someone who WAS manipulated and used by someone. First of all, before she ever met you, she was obviously concerned about her ability to birth a child. If an independent, self-reliant woman is truly in that position, she will move forward ON HER OWN with ensuring she has the financial capacity to not only conceive a child, but also support a child by herself. That is NOT how she behaved. Instead, she was looking for someone to bankroll her conceiving AND supporting a child. She CLEARLY wanted to trap you, if not for the cost of conceiving, then the cost of raising the child. RED FLAGS # 1 AND 2, right there. Second of all, just like my user and abuser, whenever you confronted her, she snapped back with shock and disbelief that you would accuse her of such things - an overreaction which indicates that you definitely caught her at her game. People who are manipulators and users are VERY GOOD at their game. In fact, just this weekend, I came across a letter my husband wrote the first time I left him (I've gone back many times out of guilt - because he knew just how to manipulate me.) When I read the letter the first time, I was sobbing and feeling guilty about him being alone in his condition (stage 4 cancer.) BUT THEN, I read the letter again, through the knowing eyes of someone who has been used and manipulated for the past 6.5 years, and I saw ALL of the little tactics he uses to make me feel guilty, to make me feel sorry for him, to make me question how I could ever have walked away. You are at a fork in the road. You have a choice to make: 1. You can call her up and get back with her. You can sign on to be the father of the child she's determined to make, thereby making yourself financially responsible for that child for the next 18 years, or whenever he/she finishes college - whichever comes LAST! (By the way, once she has you hooked financially and legally (by signing that birth certificate as the father), I suspect you'll see a change in her behavior. Her true colors will come out, and I bet you won't like the person she really is - but, too late, you'll be tied to her forever.) 2. You can stop letting her manipulate you into feeling guilty. You can walk away clean and go find a woman who will REALLY love you unselfishly, with no ulterior motive. Please pick number 2. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author thr1986 Posted November 18, 2019 Author Share Posted November 18, 2019 Also, can I ask everyone why they feel like she’s being manipulative? Is it because the sheet act of even asking someone to be involved at 3 months and helping pay for it is manipulative? My worry is that what if she was being genuine and she really did just feel pressured because of her condition and she actually wanted a baby with me. Link to post Share on other sites
vla1120 Posted November 18, 2019 Share Posted November 18, 2019 Also, can I ask everyone why they feel like she’s being manipulative? Is it because the sheet act of even asking someone to be involved at 3 months and helping pay for it is manipulative? My worry is that what if she was being genuine and she really did just feel pressured because of her condition and she actually wanted a baby with me. Would YOU ask someone, after having only known them for three months, for tens of THOUSANDS of dollars for an elective medical procedure??? I highly doubt it. Nor would any other normal human being. Then, when she couldn't get you to do that, she asked YOU to sign as the baby's father on the birth certificate, thereby making you financially responsible for that child for life! Finally, when you confronted her on these items, she became unreasonably offended and overreacted. That is why everyone believes she is manipulative. Clearly, no one out here is going to tell you what you want to hear, which is that she is madly in love with you, was NOT trying to manipulate you, and you should try to win her back. Nope. Nope. Nope. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author thr1986 Posted November 18, 2019 Author Share Posted November 18, 2019 No, I wouldn’t ask someone to be involved at that stage. I wouldn’t want anyone to be involved unless I knew them and was certain I was with them for life. It’s completely unfair and unreasonable to put that pressure on the relationship. You’re completely right in that, Val. Link to post Share on other sites
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