Dating for 4 months and she asked me for money. [Updated at 10 months]

[LivingWaterPlease]

I'm so sorry your heart is broken, thr.

 

It hurts when things go wrong in a relationship a person had high hopes for. And I know there aren't words we can say to make it better but we are here to listen/read your posts as you process what you're going through.

 

(((((thr)))))

[thr1986]

You all are so helpful, thank you. I agree that I need to understand the subconscious processes at work making me want her and fixated on my “love” for her when she clearly wasn’t a fit partner. Most people would not want her after these things have taken place. I don’t know why I still feel love for her after all of this. Are any of you happily matched with someone? How did you know? How will I know?

[salparadise]

The hardest thing is that I want the things she said and the feelings we felt to be real so badly that I keep holding on. I don’t want to believe that she was calculated. I don’t want to believe that she was looking to try and take advantage. And because I don’t want to believe that, I keep holding on. It’s hard to see the truth.

 

It's not hard to see. You see it because it has been pointed out to you time and time again in this thread by many people. What you're having trouble with is accepting how inherently manipulative and disingenuous she is. She knows that you're a sensitive soul, a soft touch, lonely, needing love and acceptance. She has an agenda –– you have the ability to finance it, along with the emotional vulnerability to make you an easy target. It's a perfect storm!

 

I saw her yesterday, just because she asked me to go shopping with her.

 

She reiterated that she asked me to help pay because she thought I would treat the whole thing differently if I was financially invested.

 

She explained that she has always been there to support and love me and talk things through with me. Truthfully, she has usually been very open to talk things through with me. The intimacy and love I do miss.

 

She even details her manipulative tactics. Of course you would feel differently if you were financially invested! And not coincidentally, you would also be out the 20-30k. You'd really be on the hook then, so heavily invested in believing it's real that you'd keep on pumping money into it. This is exactly how Nigerian romance scammers work their victims –– once they're invested financially they find it impossible to believe it's not real. And of course she's wiling to talk and do the intimacy part. That's your vulnerability, the need you can't get past, the key to your bank account.

 

You see it, but your emotional need gets in the way. You're addicted to the drug cocktail of emotional acceptance, and fully believing that she only wants your money creates dissonance. Your psyche cannot reconcile that you are worthy of being loved for who you are, and that all she cares about is your money.

 

You need to get this sorted out once and for all so that you'll be ready for a wonderful woman who actually will love you for who you are.

1. Cut her off completely, cold turkey.

2. Get a really good therapist and work on your inherent sense of worthiness.

3. Go out with nice women and eventually have a healthy relationship.

[LivingWaterPlease]

You are hooked into her because she was able to be very emotional with you. Not all people are able to express emotions so that this woman seemed special to you when compared with others.

 

You're very normal in being hooked by her emotional, warm and tender expressions. Nothing to run from there IF she had not also asked for money and what amounts to a lifetime commitment as a father.

[Mr. Lucky]

How will I know?

 

They won’t ask you for thousands of dollars a few months into the relationship, amongst the other red flags here.

 

Real relationships are usually pretty smooth sailing, at least initially...

 

Mr. Lucky

[thr1986]

I remember the feeling back in January when she brought up the embryo topic. At that point I knew she was becoming infertile and I knew she was planning to have a baby via IVF on her own. I told her I was ok with that (and I was). But when she asked me to be biologically involved and then to help pay for it, it felt really strange. I remember laying there with this strange feeling. It felt weird that she would even want to include me in on it at that point. I had just met her 3 months previous. Then, I respectfully and sweetly declined of course. She seemed embarrassed and didn’t bring it up again. However, about 3-4 weeks later, we were talking about her having her IVF baby later in the year and she asked me if I would be the father, by signing the birth certificate at the time of birth making me the legal father. It felt like she was trying to hook me again. It felt weird that she would want me to do this as she was already doing this on her own before she met me and she seemed completely confident in everything.

 

We briefly broke up a couple of months later because I felt I couldn’t continue in the relationship. The breakup lasted 3 days. Then I contacted her and we got back together. When we got back together she acted like she wasn’t sure if she wanted to accept me back. Part of us getting back together included her wanting to know what my place in the relationship with her future baby would be. She wanted to know how finances would be set up when we get married. She was sure to clairiify she would want us to combine incomes and live off of that, including the baby. It just seemed strange that this seemed so important to her. I kept feeling like, why can’t we just be together and let our relationship flourish and build. These things and these topics will come up as they need to. We don’t have to force them so early.

[thr1986]

The general feeling on my end was, “we have such a wonderful relationship going right now, why complicate it like this”.

 

She seemed to have everything under control regarding her fertility efforts. It just seemed weird to bring me into it, especially that early in our relationship.

[vla1120]

Okay, thr1986, you asked how someone knows when a relationship is real. Mr. Lucky gave a very good response. Here's another response from me, someone who WAS manipulated and used by someone.

 

First of all, before she ever met you, she was obviously concerned about her ability to birth a child. If an independent, self-reliant woman is truly in that position, she will move forward ON HER OWN with ensuring she has the financial capacity to not only conceive a child, but also support a child by herself. That is NOT how she behaved. Instead, she was looking for someone to bankroll her conceiving AND supporting a child. She CLEARLY wanted to trap you, if not for the cost of conceiving, then the cost of raising the child. RED FLAGS # 1 AND 2, right there.

 

Second of all, just like my user and abuser, whenever you confronted her, she snapped back with shock and disbelief that you would accuse her of such things - an overreaction which indicates that you definitely caught her at her game.

 

People who are manipulators and users are VERY GOOD at their game. In fact, just this weekend, I came across a letter my husband wrote the first time I left him (I've gone back many times out of guilt - because he knew just how to manipulate me.) When I read the letter the first time, I was sobbing and feeling guilty about him being alone in his condition (stage 4 cancer.)

 

BUT THEN, I read the letter again, through the knowing eyes of someone who has been used and manipulated for the past 6.5 years, and I saw ALL of the little tactics he uses to make me feel guilty, to make me feel sorry for him, to make me question how I could ever have walked away.

 

You are at a fork in the road. You have a choice to make:

 

1. You can call her up and get back with her. You can sign on to be the father of the child she's determined to make, thereby making yourself financially responsible for that child for the next 18 years, or whenever he/she finishes college - whichever comes LAST! (By the way, once she has you hooked financially and legally (by signing that birth certificate as the father), I suspect you'll see a change in her behavior. Her true colors will come out, and I bet you won't like the person she really is - but, too late, you'll be tied to her forever.)

 

2. You can stop letting her manipulate you into feeling guilty. You can walk away clean and go find a woman who will REALLY love you unselfishly, with no ulterior motive.

 

Please pick number 2.

[S2B]

The general feeling on my end was, “we have such a wonderful relationship going right now, why complicate it like this”.

 

She seemed to have everything under control regarding her fertility efforts. It just seemed weird to bring me into it, especially that early in our relationship.

 

It was going great for her because she had searched out someone she could use. Someone willing enough to consider her manipulative plan.

 

The relationship with an abuser always goes well as long as you do it their way.

 

And you can tell they are scamming you when you call them out and they get angry and abusive... that’s because they know they’ve been caught - and they try that angry tactic knowing they have to turn it around on you.

 

 

Don’t worry your pretty little head - I’m positive she’s already moved on to her next pret/victim.

 

I’m sure she never had a plan to have a child - this is the perfect ploy to get any wealthy man to pony up ten grand every couple of months to find her fake IVF.

 

It’s a creepy fake way of making 3-4 thousand a month.

 

You fell hard for her because she payed it on thick - as all scam artists tend to do.

 

She wasn’t real - she’s a fake/phony/liar/scammer.

 

Let it go!

[thr1986]

Also, can I ask everyone why they feel like she’s being manipulative? Is it because the sheet act of even asking someone to be involved at 3 months and helping pay for it is manipulative?

 

My worry is that what if she was being genuine and she really did just feel pressured because of her condition and she actually wanted a baby with me.

[S2B]

Then she can go ask another guy to pay!

 

Stop looking for excuses for HER bad behavior!

 

You need professional help to understand why you can’t get over her manipulations.

 

It comes from somewhere... maybe your Mother was this way growing up? Either way you need help understanding this isn’t normal behavior on her part but it’s alao not a normal/healthy response on YOUR part either!

[vla1120]

Also, can I ask everyone why they feel like she’s being manipulative? Is it because the sheet act of even asking someone to be involved at 3 months and helping pay for it is manipulative?

 

My worry is that what if she was being genuine and she really did just feel pressured because of her condition and she actually wanted a baby with me.

 

Would YOU ask someone, after having only known them for three months, for tens of THOUSANDS of dollars for an elective medical procedure??? I highly doubt it. Nor would any other normal human being.

 

Then, when she couldn't get you to do that, she asked YOU to sign as the baby's father on the birth certificate, thereby making you financially responsible for that child for life!

 

Finally, when you confronted her on these items, she became unreasonably offended and overreacted.

 

That is why everyone believes she is manipulative.

 

Clearly, no one out here is going to tell you what you want to hear, which is that she is madly in love with you, was NOT trying to manipulate you, and you should try to win her back. Nope. Nope. Nope.

[thr1986]

No, I wouldn’t ask someone to be involved at that stage. I wouldn’t want anyone to be involved unless I knew them and was certain I was with them for life. It’s completely unfair and unreasonable to put that pressure on the relationship. You’re completely right in that, Val.

[S2B]

HIGHEST scam/manipulation I’ve heard of! And I’m old!

 

It’s a perfect scam - because the guy could never actually know if she had spent that money on IVF or something else.

 

My guess is she doesn’t actually get the IVF done.

 

 

She scamming men by love bombing them at the start so she can obtain 10-20 thousand before he catches on to her ploy.

 

What is her LONGEST relationship before you met her?

 

And you do realize she’s capable of going to a sperm bank right? Makes even more sense that’s she’s a scammer.

 

Especially if she says she makes good money! She could pay for anything if she made good money!

 

Go ahead - tell her “pay yourself” and go to a sperm bank! She wants a man to pay her way in life!

 

Any gal intending to provide for a child on their own would do a sperm bank and IVF by paying themself!

 

She has no intension of doing IVF - she intends to have any man pay and pay and pay.

[thr1986]

She is paying for everything on her own. She also definitely is doing IVF because I went to the doctor with her and was there when she attempted to transfer an embryo, which didn’t work.

 

She really is trying to have a baby and from what I can see is paying for it. She went into debt ($80,000) and has paid most of it off (she has about $5,000 left from what she has told me). She lives really cheaply and was always cheap with me because of this.

[Mr. Lucky]

Is it because the sheet act of even asking someone to be involved at 3 months and helping pay for it is manipulative?

 

To me, the initial request for funds wasn’t her most audacious ask, and that’s saying something. Wanting you to sign the birth certificate and accept legal and financial responsibility for a child she’d already been planning is the clear winner.

 

thr1986, people date and court for some time before marriage for a lot of good reasons. She was more interested in determining your bank balance than compatibility. Should tell you something about her priorities...

 

Mr. Lucky

Edited November 18, 2019 by Mr. Lucky

[thr1986]

I know, I sensed dangerous motifs but just never had or got any “proof” of it. I asked her point blank about both of these requests and communicated I felt they could be dishonest. She said “I asked you to help pay for the IVF because if you’re going to be biologically involved you will take it more seriously if you have accountability invested in it”. I also asked her why she (1-2 months later) asked me to agree to be the legal father of her baby and she said she felt we needed to define my place in the relationship if there was going to be a baby with us every day. She said she didn’t want her baby to be confused about who I was

[S2B]

Look, anyone saying these crazy things 2-4 months into ANY relationship is using you!

 

She’s not thinking you’re the best choice - she’s thinking you’re ok for now.

 

She is a user. Plain and simple!

 

4 months in you should be able to go to dinner or a movie or a weekend away just for the fun of it. She showed her hand early because she has no intention of wasting time if you aren’t agreeable to HER AGENDA.

 

She is a user.

[Versacehottie]

Come on thr1986, you are rehashing and rehashing this in your head ad naseum. there is nothing really left to debate. It's on you. You can CHOOSE to stay stuck and stuck in the past ruminating OR you can CHOOSE to focus on your present and your future.

 

Why are you not using the time spent rehashing this scenario with a therapist? Why are you not using the money you have to see a therapist?

 

Idk, you do seem kind of hyper-focused on money btw. I don't know it seems as if you are also keeping score financially.

[PegNosePete]

She is paying for everything on her own.

Right now, maybe. but she is quite clearly looking for someone to pay off her debts and to bankroll her future:

She wanted to know how finances would be set up when we get married. She was sure to clairiify she would want us to combine incomes and live off of that, including the baby. It just seemed strange that this seemed so important to her.

... see what I mean? It doesn't seem strange at all, it's painfully obvious. She's made it very clear that you will be the breadwinner in the relationship, and she will be the mother. And if you were to split up, she is laying down the foundations such that you'll be on the hook forever.

 

If I were you I'd be running a mile from this. But then if I were you I'd have run a mile months ago!

[thr1986]

Versachehottie- you could be right about me being stuck on money. In the beginning of this relationship I was not worried about money at all. I was so generous and felt responsible to pay for dinners and stuff. But after going out of town with her Twice and going to dinner a few times a week for 2 months or so and seeing her quite often and her not even offer anything- it started to feel weird. Especially when she was spending money shopping and on stuff for herself. It felt weird. Ya know? She just felt more selfish than other women I had been with. It felt selfish. Then she brought up the embryo thing and asked me to pay- and at that point I spoke to her about splitting meals when we go out and stuff like that. It was a difficult conversation. She sort of resisted. But whatever- we worked it out and started splitting everything. So to answer your comment- perhaps I am hyper aware of it now but I think it’s from this experience and it comes out when I talk about this experience because of its relevance to the explanation.

[Versacehottie]

The money point is that you are still resentful about it. Either it was an awakening that you wanted to "test" whether this woman was really selfish and just using you for your money or you felt you had put in enough time courting her by paying and then it was split the bills time and you are STILL harping on it.

 

In the big picture it's more of the same. You want her to be something she is not and yet you keep hanging on. You two are also not compatible and aligned on money matters among other things. Forget the baby part, but many guys with the means to pay would be fine with continually being the one to pay for the dating portion of things and let her shop. BTW, you say so many conflicting things about her finances--is she thrifty or a shopaholic--you have indicated both, which frankly indicates it's you that have judgmental feelings about it. Originally when you started this thread, you seemed to be more put off about the request of the money vs. the audacity of what it was for and the inappropriateness of that and how it would cause you to be involved as a father figure--and also the sheer lameness of someone that can't afford to pay for the the remaining IVF costs would not have the money to support the baby in NYC. You were kind of stuck on just the cash amount. As if she had asked you for $10K for a car to get to a new job, it would have bothered you the same. There's a problem in that thinking of yours.

 

You can keep being blind and wanting her to be someone she is not, which no one here sees it as you do; no one is conflicted about her but you.

[thr1986]

I honestly have no problem paying for dates and being the breadwinner in a relationship that’s permanent. It just felt weird in the beginning when we were getting to know one another that she never offered anything. Then when she asked me for IVF involvement and money it became a feeling of use.

 

You’re right, in my heart and mind- I almost wish everyone would say “THR” it’s you that is being unreasonable. She is fine. She’s probably going through a hard time and felt pressured and she loves you and is the right person for you” because then I could go get her back and be with her. That would make me feel better initially. The greater concern is “is she a bar person looking to use me” which is obviously what we’re talking about

[PegNosePete]

when she asked me for IVF involvement and money it became a feeling of use.

It should have very quickly become a feeling of relief, after you ran a mile, at having dodged such a bullet.

[thr1986]

She really wanted to get married. She was saying at 5 months in (or less) that she was ready to get married and it was all a matter of when I was ready. She would say “I’m ready when you are- I’m waiting for you to ask”. It just seemed too easy ya know? Like it was just too soon. I wondered how she could be so sure.

 

She made me feel great though. She was loving and compassionate. She praised me for how empathetic and thoughtful I was. Many time in relationships past I have felt like I didn’t “play the game” well enough so to speak. I’ve felt like I’m too nice or maybe too predictable. This woman praised me for how I am and found it attractive. She loved me for who I am. She said she had loving parents and a father that always praised her and she didn’t feel the need for someone to reject her to be attractive. She seems very healthy in a mental capacity actually. These are the things and the feelings I’ve had with her that make me wonder if I’m leaving someone who is the right person.

 

I know these feelings I’m describing are flawed. But I’m just putting them across so everyone knows how I feel