Dating for 4 months and she asked me for money. [Updated at 10 months]

[thr1986]

She is paying for everything on her own. She also definitely is doing IVF because I went to the doctor with her and was there when she attempted to transfer an embryo, which didn’t work.

 

She really is trying to have a baby and from what I can see is paying for it. She went into debt ($80,000) and has paid most of it off (she has about $5,000 left from what she has told me). She lives really cheaply and was always cheap with me because of this.

[Mr. Lucky]

Is it because the sheet act of even asking someone to be involved at 3 months and helping pay for it is manipulative?

 

To me, the initial request for funds wasn’t her most audacious ask, and that’s saying something. Wanting you to sign the birth certificate and accept legal and financial responsibility for a child she’d already been planning is the clear winner.

 

thr1986, people date and court for some time before marriage for a lot of good reasons. She was more interested in determining your bank balance than compatibility. Should tell you something about her priorities...

 

Mr. Lucky

Edited November 18, 2019 by Mr. Lucky

[thr1986]

I know, I sensed dangerous motifs but just never had or got any “proof” of it. I asked her point blank about both of these requests and communicated I felt they could be dishonest. She said “I asked you to help pay for the IVF because if you’re going to be biologically involved you will take it more seriously if you have accountability invested in it”. I also asked her why she (1-2 months later) asked me to agree to be the legal father of her baby and she said she felt we needed to define my place in the relationship if there was going to be a baby with us every day. She said she didn’t want her baby to be confused about who I was

[Versacehottie]

Come on thr1986, you are rehashing and rehashing this in your head ad naseum. there is nothing really left to debate. It's on you. You can CHOOSE to stay stuck and stuck in the past ruminating OR you can CHOOSE to focus on your present and your future.

 

Why are you not using the time spent rehashing this scenario with a therapist? Why are you not using the money you have to see a therapist?

 

Idk, you do seem kind of hyper-focused on money btw. I don't know it seems as if you are also keeping score financially.

[PegNosePete]

She is paying for everything on her own.

Right now, maybe. but she is quite clearly looking for someone to pay off her debts and to bankroll her future:

She wanted to know how finances would be set up when we get married. She was sure to clairiify she would want us to combine incomes and live off of that, including the baby. It just seemed strange that this seemed so important to her.

... see what I mean? It doesn't seem strange at all, it's painfully obvious. She's made it very clear that you will be the breadwinner in the relationship, and she will be the mother. And if you were to split up, she is laying down the foundations such that you'll be on the hook forever.

 

If I were you I'd be running a mile from this. But then if I were you I'd have run a mile months ago!

[thr1986]

Versachehottie- you could be right about me being stuck on money. In the beginning of this relationship I was not worried about money at all. I was so generous and felt responsible to pay for dinners and stuff. But after going out of town with her Twice and going to dinner a few times a week for 2 months or so and seeing her quite often and her not even offer anything- it started to feel weird. Especially when she was spending money shopping and on stuff for herself. It felt weird. Ya know? She just felt more selfish than other women I had been with. It felt selfish. Then she brought up the embryo thing and asked me to pay- and at that point I spoke to her about splitting meals when we go out and stuff like that. It was a difficult conversation. She sort of resisted. But whatever- we worked it out and started splitting everything. So to answer your comment- perhaps I am hyper aware of it now but I think it’s from this experience and it comes out when I talk about this experience because of its relevance to the explanation.

[Versacehottie]

The money point is that you are still resentful about it. Either it was an awakening that you wanted to "test" whether this woman was really selfish and just using you for your money or you felt you had put in enough time courting her by paying and then it was split the bills time and you are STILL harping on it.

 

In the big picture it's more of the same. You want her to be something she is not and yet you keep hanging on. You two are also not compatible and aligned on money matters among other things. Forget the baby part, but many guys with the means to pay would be fine with continually being the one to pay for the dating portion of things and let her shop. BTW, you say so many conflicting things about her finances--is she thrifty or a shopaholic--you have indicated both, which frankly indicates it's you that have judgmental feelings about it. Originally when you started this thread, you seemed to be more put off about the request of the money vs. the audacity of what it was for and the inappropriateness of that and how it would cause you to be involved as a father figure--and also the sheer lameness of someone that can't afford to pay for the the remaining IVF costs would not have the money to support the baby in NYC. You were kind of stuck on just the cash amount. As if she had asked you for $10K for a car to get to a new job, it would have bothered you the same. There's a problem in that thinking of yours.

 

You can keep being blind and wanting her to be someone she is not, which no one here sees it as you do; no one is conflicted about her but you.

[thr1986]

I honestly have no problem paying for dates and being the breadwinner in a relationship that’s permanent. It just felt weird in the beginning when we were getting to know one another that she never offered anything. Then when she asked me for IVF involvement and money it became a feeling of use.

 

You’re right, in my heart and mind- I almost wish everyone would say “THR” it’s you that is being unreasonable. She is fine. She’s probably going through a hard time and felt pressured and she loves you and is the right person for you” because then I could go get her back and be with her. That would make me feel better initially. The greater concern is “is she a bar person looking to use me” which is obviously what we’re talking about

[PegNosePete]

when she asked me for IVF involvement and money it became a feeling of use.

It should have very quickly become a feeling of relief, after you ran a mile, at having dodged such a bullet.

[thr1986]

She really wanted to get married. She was saying at 5 months in (or less) that she was ready to get married and it was all a matter of when I was ready. She would say “I’m ready when you are- I’m waiting for you to ask”. It just seemed too easy ya know? Like it was just too soon. I wondered how she could be so sure.

 

She made me feel great though. She was loving and compassionate. She praised me for how empathetic and thoughtful I was. Many time in relationships past I have felt like I didn’t “play the game” well enough so to speak. I’ve felt like I’m too nice or maybe too predictable. This woman praised me for how I am and found it attractive. She loved me for who I am. She said she had loving parents and a father that always praised her and she didn’t feel the need for someone to reject her to be attractive. She seems very healthy in a mental capacity actually. These are the things and the feelings I’ve had with her that make me wonder if I’m leaving someone who is the right person.

 

I know these feelings I’m describing are flawed. But I’m just putting them across so everyone knows how I feel

[Snow_Queen]

She really wanted to get married. She was saying at 5 months in (or less) that she was ready to get married and it was all a matter of when I was ready. She would say “I’m ready when you are- I’m waiting for you to ask”. It just seemed too easy ya know? Like it was just too soon. I wondered how she could be so sure.

 

She made me feel great though. She was loving and compassionate. She praised me for how empathetic and thoughtful I was. Many time in relationships past I have felt like I didn’t “play the game” well enough so to speak. I’ve felt like I’m too nice or maybe too predictable. This woman praised me for how I am and found it attractive. She loved me for who I am. She said she had loving parents and a father that always praised her and she didn’t feel the need for someone to reject her to be attractive. She seems very healthy in a mental capacity actually. These are the things and the feelings I’ve had with her that make me wonder if I’m leaving someone who is the right person.

 

I know these feelings I’m describing are flawed. But I’m just putting them across so everyone knows how I feel

 

 

For 19 pages, you’ve had pretty solid advice. You’re clearly not making a mistake based on what you’ve told us.

 

Of course she praised you and made you feel amazing, loved, etc. Essentially, she’s a scam artist. She had to reel you in somehow. Anyone who’s looking to use another finds a weak spot and starts from there.

[thr1986]

For 19 pages, you’ve had pretty solid advice. You’re clearly not making a mistake based on what you’ve told us.

 

Of course she praised you and made you feel amazing, loved, etc. Essentially, she’s a scam artist. She had to reel you in somehow. Anyone who’s looking to use another finds a weak spot and starts from there.

 

Your right. I keep questioning if I’ve told the story properly or if I’m misreading her.

[vla1120]

I know these feelings I’m describing are flawed. But I’m just putting them across so everyone knows how I feel

 

Your feelings are your feelings. I would not describe them as flawed.

 

This is what I think you need to do to ease your concerns. Try looking back at what you have described to us. Take out ALL of your own emotion from your story. Imagine someone else is telling YOU this story.

 

1. He's been dating a woman for three months.

 

2. She NEVER offered to pay or even help pay, for anything when they are out together (quite selfish, considering she has a good career.)

 

3. At three months, she asks him for tens of thousands of dollars to help her with IVF (very bold, given she's only known him for three months.)

 

4. When he says "no." Then she asks him to sign the birth certificate as the father (thereby making him wholly financially responsible for the child - again quite bold, and an indication she's trying to get a permanent hook in him.)

 

5. He tells you that, regardless of all of this, she makes him feel good about himself and he's not sure he should give up on the relationship.

 

What would your advice be to this person, given the evidence that she is clearly trying to take advantage of him?

[thr1986]

So in the first 4 months of knowing one another we went up to upstate New York and rented a cabin for two weekends. The first time we did this was in December (we met in October) and the whole trip was her idea so she actually paid for that cabin rental but then I paid for everything else, car rental food etc. Then she kept saying she wanted to go and do it again after we got back so we planned a weekend and did it again. I paid for everything this time. Cabin rental, groceries when we get there, dinner at a restaurant one night, breakfast twice. Car rental. Everything. It just seemed like somewhere in there she would offer something. also, we went to the opera once which was also her idea and she bought the two opera tickets. The rest of everything we did, In 4 months I paid for and she didn’t offer to contribute ever. For example if I stayed with her on Friday I would buy dinner, breakfast Saturday, dinner and movie (for example) on Saturday night and then again brunch on Sunday and then dinner Sunday night if we were still hanging out. She just never offered anything and it stated to feel weird. Then she sprung the embryo question on me and that’s when I had the talk with her about splitting things. Which she agreed to do. But, she was so “nickel and dime” ish about it. She watched closely and would get weried and agitated if I ever spent less than her. It just seemed like she was so watchful this.

 

Then, yes she asked me to become the baby’s father after I said I wasn’t comfortable creating an embryo. I kept telling her, I just wish I could have you without all this other pressures. Can we just be together?

[vla1120]

Can we just be together?

 

You seem very determined to be in a relationship with this woman, despite what you've read out here.

 

Sure. You can be with her and stand your ground on splitting things 50/50, if you feel taken advantage of in that respect. You can also tell her you only want to be in a relationship for now, no talk of marriage or children until you are ready. How can you be certain she will not become pregnant before you are ready to commit? Also, what is the last communication you've had with her? Are you certain she has not moved on to someone else that might be more open to doing as she requested?

 

Just remember....I have that love letter from a man who was controlling and abusive to me. When I read the letter with my rose colored glasses, I wonder how I ever could have left this loving, caring man who told me his world revolved around me. When I read the letter with my eyes wide open, knowing what he has said and done to me to break my spirit, I realize how LUCKY I am not to be under his spell, anymore.

 

Tread carefully.

[kendahke]

Can we just be together?

 

The answer is: no, you cannot just be together.

 

She's got an agenda to accomplish and if you're not going to fall in line, there isn't going to be any "just be together".

 

Time to muster up some courage, go out and join a meet up group and rebuild your social life. That is really in your best interests.

[thr1986]

I am going to see a professional psychoanalyst. Hopefully I’ll be able to understand what’s going on.

[vla1120]

I am going to see a professional psychoanalyst. Hopefully I’ll be able to understand what’s going on.

 

BEST post I've seen in the 284-post thread!!

[preraph]

She has done little else but try to get you legally obligated to give her money to finance her IVF and child support thereafter. Do not sign on as father to this child. She just wants someone else to have to pay her child support.

 

It is completely insane and unacceptable that a woman you knew 3 months would hatch this plan and try to drag you in , and the only possible reason is MONEY. She wants it. She thinks you've got it.

[thr1986]

I spoke to her today. I asked her how she was feeling. She said she was feeling “numb” and pointed out that I left her when she was at her most vunerable time. It always feels like she tries to create a dynamic where she positions herself in a place where I’ve done something wrong and I have to try and make it up to her. It’s becoming clearer to me now. The reason I spoke to her is because I left something at her place that I need back. I’m going to get it tomorrow evening.

 

She just always has something that creates a dynamic where I’ve left or I’ve abandoned her or I’ve done something wrong and she hasn’t and I have to fix it. I told her today that I felt like I was so accommodating to her during the whole process. I went to the doctor with her and I accepted that she was going to have a baby on her own and I stayed with her and I was genuinely ok with it. I feel like that is all qualification for saying I was really accommodating to her. When I said I was really accommodating she said “really? Um you left me at my most vulnerable time - right after the embryo transfer didn’t work”

 

She just always has something that makes me feel like I’ve done something wrong when I’m the big picture I don’t feel I’ve done anything wrong

[basil67]

thr1986, regarding her being a victim to you and your timing, would she happen to have the same dialogue about other family, friends and exes? That they abandon her or are never there when she needs them?

[thr1986]

She has an ex husband, she said they divorced because his family was too involved in their marriage and that things “changed” after they got married. She said the family was very “possessive” over her and tried to dictate that she get a higher paying job after they got married. The parents bought them a nice apartment in NYC after they got married and she was upset that the parents wouldn’t put her name on the apartment. However I don’t think her contribution to the mortgage was much at all (she was doing non profit feminist work at the time). He was paying for everything, from what I understand. So- she said they divorced because of the apartment, because of the families overshadowing involvement in the marriage, also she said her husband wouldn’t have sex. She said they slept together 4 times in the last year of their marriage and that drove her crazy. She eventually ended up asking him if they could have an open relationship since he wasn’t sleeping with her. That obviously didn’t go over well. She ended up cheating on him and then they mutally parted ways with a divorce. He never knew about the cheating. They’re still friends actually. They see one another for dinner once a month or so.

[thr1986]

Regarding other relationships, she has mentioned a few 6 month-ish long relationships. Most recently one with a guy who was older than her and ended up leaving because he wasn’t keen with her fertility journey she was starting re: the IVF

 

Her family relationships seem healthy. Except, her twin brother she doesn’t speak to because she said he’s bipolar and borderline and she said he’s emotionally abusive to her etc.

 

Her mother and father have a great relationship with her. In fact, her parents are planning to move to nyc when/if she’s able to have a baby via IVF to help her take care of the baby

[preraph]

So she was bleeding her ex for money too, but his family saw through it and wasn't having any. Why would they put HER name on it? She's a very manipulative greedy money-seeking person.

 

How she keeps trying to position herself to make you feel at fault it called "gaslighting." Google it. It's the first line of offence for bad people in general.

[vla1120]

I spoke to her today. I asked her how she was feeling. She said she was feeling “numb” and pointed out that I left her when she was at her most vunerable time. It always feels like she tries to create a dynamic where she positions herself in a place where I’ve done something wrong and I have to try and make it up to her. It’s becoming clearer to me now. The reason I spoke to her is because I left something at her place that I need back. I’m going to get it tomorrow evening.

 

She just always has something that creates a dynamic where I’ve left or I’ve abandoned her or I’ve done something wrong and she hasn’t and I have to fix it. I told her today that I felt like I was so accommodating to her during the whole process. I went to the doctor with her and I accepted that she was going to have a baby on her own and I stayed with her and I was genuinely ok with it. I feel like that is all qualification for saying I was really accommodating to her. When I said I was really accommodating she said “really? Um you left me at my most vulnerable time - right after the embryo transfer didn’t work”

 

She just always has something that makes me feel like I’ve done something wrong when I’m the big picture I don’t feel I’ve done anything wrong

 

Wow. This, and the explanation about her ex-husband's family involvement just confirms what is already suspected. She is a user and manipulator. Her main concern is getting money from you (or whomever else she can manipulate.)

 

Did you step outside yourself and look at what this whole situation looks like from the outside? She used you. She's trying to make you feel guilty so she can reel you back in. She's given you evidence of an ex-husband and an ex-older man who BOTH left her because all she used them for was money.

 

You need to put a fork in this mess. It's done! Everyone else out here knows it. We're just waiting for you to get to the party...