I'm addicted to women and need to hold myself accountable.

[CantGetEnuff]

loversquarrel, I don't expect a medal for tossing my phone, but trust me it felt like a big deal to me when I did it.

 

I was going to eventually cave if I kept it around. I recognize that. I didn't even toss it away here where I could have maybe changed my mind and retrieved it. I walked down to the lobby of our building, took a walk, and chucked it in a trash can like a block away.

[mark clemson]

Hi, Can’t –

 

Glad you liked my previous post. Here’s something else to think about. All is my personal opinion FWIW only:

 

Consider two adult men, “A” and “B”. Both are smart and have good jobs.

A keeps himself well-groomed and attractive. He dresses sharp. Plenty of friends. At social events he’s quite skilled at “working the crowd” and chats freely with both men and women, esp. women. He’ll stay late socializing and enjoying himself.

 

B is a lot lower-key. He dresses appropriately to the occasion but nothing too special. He gets regular haircuts, etc. but normally doesn’t bother with eyebrow and ear trimming and might let his hair grow out a couple of weeks if he’s busy. Has a good number of friends. Socially he also talks with whomever and occasionally has a longer conversations, but without the intensity and fluency of person A.

 

So, the question – out of these two, who has a self-esteem issue?

 

 

You’re gut reaction might be that, if anyone, it’s B. But this is a case where your gut sense probably wouldn’t be right.

 

Consider who’s putting so much energy into maintaining and managing other people’s perceptions. Who’s soaking up all the resulting social attention? What’s driving the need for that? It seems person A isn’t “content unto themselves” and has a real internal need for sustained external social approval.

 

You might be thinking, ok but there are some real benefits to A’s approach. I think there’s a LOT of validity to that. A’s efforts might get him more friends, better opportunities, promotions, and more attractive/higher status jobs and women. A’s wife might even be “more into” him than B’s. One could even say that A is in some ways more alive than B and B could actually use some of A’s “juice” in their life.

 

I think there’s real truth to that. But what does A need?

 

 

I think A needs self-awareness. Awareness of what’s driving/motivating his behavior. With awareness, there’s no reason for him to stop doing what he’s doing and reaping the benefits (for himself and for those around him). But without self-awareness, he and the happy medium he’s reached with his limbic system are really quite vulnerable.

 

I think A might not fare well against unscrupulous people with high emotional intelligence. Consider how he might run into problems with:

 

• The con man who recognizes A for the easy mark that (without self-awareness) he is
  
• An attractive woman (with her own esteem issues) who instinctively knows she can get A “wrapped around her finger”, to the possible major detriment of his family life and finances
  
• A boss, colleague, or business partner who “gets” A, and thus is able to manipulate him to their advantage
  

I’m not saying that everyone around A is out to get him. Most people won’t have the ability or interest in doing him harm. But the few who do can do a LOT of damage. Consider how many people “knew” they’d never get tricked out of their life savings.

 

And ultimately A is vulnerable to his own brain. His limbic system will gradually need more and more reinforcement to get the same satisfaction. If he doesn’t recognize his needs for what they are, this drive could eventually push him past what he’s actually capable of. After burnout comes the big emotional drop when he’s no longer able to “feel good about himself” by continually obtaining external reinforcement. With the letdown comes depression, defeatism, possibly even thoughts of suicide.

 

In summary, I think A has a lot to gain and little to lose with self-awareness and recognizing the inner need that “makes him tick”. It doesn’t have to stop him doing all the positive things he does.

 

Hope this was thought-provoking and helpful.

[Ronni_W]

Ronni, to be fair the approach I mentioned takes time, at least for me it did. I remember it taking about 3 months before I felt fully normal again.

Hi mark.

 

I totally get that; believe me, I've had to rewire so many different pre-programmed and self-inflicted false notions, ideas and beliefs, and illusions and delusions, that I've lost count...

...and it's an ongoing process.

 

The point is that one has to actually start doing it. Contemplate and journal about one thing. OP did have the time to do that over the weekend, or, quite frankly, should have made the time.

 

As he himself said, the proof is in the action. I am sure that most everyone here is just waiting for the proof, so that we can applaud and continue to support as best we each, individually, know how.

 

CantGetEnuff, that was a huge step to get rid of your burner phone! Congrats and well done. :bunny: .

[CantGetEnuff]

Good Day #5 is down

 

I really do feel like I've turned a corner. I'm just focusing on keeping my phone hidden away during the work day as much as I can, and hitting work with 100% energy. I'm the type to go from addiction to addiction (not using that word in a technical sense, necessarily), so I really need to find other things to obsess about.

 

Right now I'm obsessing about kicking ass at work. I might also get back into my monthly poker games with friends. I love the combination of math and social skills involved.

 

Thanks for all the positive feedback.

 

Oh and Mark, that was a very interesting analysis.

 

Yeah I'm probably Guy A. I recognize that. You gave me a lot to chew on. Gracias!

 

Also, thanks Ronni! Yes I much prefer to re-program myself than have some cult or quack do it. I have low opinions of most people's intelligence (for good reason).

[Ronni_W]

Also, thanks Ronni! Yes I much prefer to re-program myself than have some cult or quack do it.

CantGetEnuff,

 

Just to be clear, while a LOT of my work was/is self-directed, I was intelligent enough to also use professional help as needed; but, even so, almost all of the actual work gets done outside of sessions.

 

If you can do it on your own, great; but I'd offer the caution to also be willing to recognize if/when you do need a professional external appraisal to give you a clear, accurate, unbiased,

honest picture of what is truly going on within your psyche and its psychology. It's difficult, if not impossible, to do this for oneself. Obviously, yes, you do need to use your own discernment when

selecting a professional; it's the same whether that's a doctor, lawyer or therapist.

I have low opinions of most people's intelligence (for good reason).

. Only you know if you're basing your opinions on people's actual IQ scores, or on whether they agree or disagree with your own worldview and personal philosophy. You may or may not agree with me,

but obviously one makes more sense to do, than the other.

 

Wishing you another successful day!

[Rayce]

Great Job! The 1st week is the hardest of quitting anything cold turkey and there are lots of folks who can quit an addiction using the cold turkey approach so I know you can do this too! Keep up the good work!

Edited February 5, 2019 by Rayce

[BreakOnThrough]

I have a sense of what you are going through, a combination of obsessive compulsion tied into esteem issues and fantasy, overall it can be a very destructive recipe. Finding the monotony of life and possible lack of challenge can accentuate this behavior. Do you find your life challenging and hence rewarding? What you are essentially doing is creating alternate realities, trying to compensate for lack of control/reward in your real life, you can control your alternate reality, do so in a manner that is rewarding, which then leads to compulsion. You more than likely need professional help to flip the script. "White knuckling" is not conducive to long-term success unfortunately.

[mark clemson]

Can't, FWIW I think finding new/different interests to replace this is a wise move. It's probable that after multiple years of this, being "that guy" (who has extramarital relations/fluency with women) has become part of your identity. So, you'll want other engaging activities that replace it to avoid feel "disrupted" at the change.

 

Not going to recommend any specific activities. Obviously avoiding what is harmful/potentially harmful is usually wise.

 

Hastas,

Mark

[CautiouslyOptimistic]

I have low opinions of most people's intelligence (for good reason).

 

OP, are you a narcissist?

[CantGetEnuff]

Damn I am on a roll. Didn't even think about these issues all day. But I'm sorta training myself to 'check in' here around lunch just do double down in my mind that I'm staying on track.

 

And yes, I think to stay busy as hell. I have plenty of social outlets to use for that.

 

And CautiouslyOptimistic, I mean I'm not a shrink, but if I had to answer that question, I'd say "Absolutely."

[Ronni_W]

, but if I had to answer that question, I'd say "Absolutely."

CantGetEnuff,

 

My oversight for not having asked you earlier -- so that I could tailor my responses to your actual wants and needs,

instead of just making up my mind (assuming that *I* know) what you actually want and/or need: Are you interested in making permanent, deep-down changes?

[Mr. Lucky]

I'm just focusing on keeping my phone hidden away during the work day as much as I can

 

If you had a burner phone for extracurricular activities, what's the danger from your personal cell?

 

Mr. Lucky

[Mr. Lucky]

OP, are you a narcissist?

 

I have low opinions of most people's intelligence (for good reason).

 

I've been accused of having a superiority complex (it's probably true)

 

Ten characters...

 

Mr. Lucky

[Ronni_W]

And ultimately A is vulnerable to his own brain. His limbic system will gradually need more and more reinforcement to get the same satisfaction.

mark,

 

Another excellent post! Unfortunately, I think it may be wasted here, unless OP actually does want to make permanent, deep-seated changes. If he ignores the question, then we will have our answer.

 

I get narcissism and egos as fragile as OP's; believe me, I do; but, if he won't really look at how his brain is actually operating and day-to-day controlling him, then how can he rewire it?

[CantGetEnuff]

Mr. Lucky, yes that about sums me up. I'm being as brutally honest re: myself as I can be. I know the type of person I am.

 

And congrats on your 13,000th post. Damn you must have some stories.

[Mr. Lucky]

I know the type of person I am.

 

Actually, you know the type of person you've been. Never too late to change...

 

Mr. Lucky

[Mr. Lucky]

Damn you must have some stories.

 

Many of the threads here contain part of the answer in the title.

 

For instance, you say "I'm addicted to women...". Were that true, you'd have been helpless in the face of that addiction in a way that would have driven you to seek help long ago, probably in one of the forms you so easily dismiss.

 

You're attracted to women and, more importantly, willing to act on that feeling. Just make you selfish, a character trait rather than a condition. Not sure there's a cure...

 

Mr. Lucky

[BettyDraper]

OP, have you ever considered taking your sexual energy home to your wife?

When you find women attractive, you can choose to exercise some restraint until you and your wife have some time alone.

 

You can also choose to let go of your ego driven aversion to professional help and humble yourself enough to seek it.

 

We all have free will to decide how we wish to live our lives.

[Rayce]

BettyDraper brings up a good point. What is your aversion to seeking professional help? I think I remember reading that you said it would be hard to fit into your schedule and keep it a secret... yet that really seems like an excuse not too.

[mark clemson]

@ Ronni - thanks!

[CautiouslyOptimistic]

BettyDraper brings up a good point. What is your aversion to seeking professional help? I think I remember reading that you said it would be hard to fit into your schedule and keep it a secret... yet that really seems like an excuse not too.

 

He's admitted he's probably a narcissist so I think this explains it.

 

My BIL just quit therapy after 3 visits and his marriage and family is in absolute shambles. He's a narcissist. He says it is not "helping him" (but of course he needs no help and going in the first place was just for show) and instead puts all the blame on my sis and tells her if SHE really wanted things to change SHE would be going to therapy TWICE A WEEK instead of just once a week (while he refuses to go at all, even with her to couples therapy).

[BaileyB]

OP, have you ever considered taking your sexual energy home to your wife?

When you find women attractive, you can choose to exercise some restraint until you and your wife have some time alone.

 

Why would she really want that though? If she knew the truth about her husband, if she is constantly having him put on her, that’s not going to be a particularly pleasant experience for her...

[CantGetEnuff]

Good Day #6 Down

 

Well it's basically been a week now. I feel as though I've gotten the old daily habits out of my system. Not saying that I am a new man or anything, I'll be realistic and admit I need a LOT of good weeks strung together before going to that extent, but I do feel like progress has been made.

 

I will probably slow down posting in this thread, as I'm starting to think that the more I talk/type about this now, the more I will think about it, and the more I might be tempted to fall off the wagon. I think it's healthier, at least for me, to push it aside and focus on other interests to avoid dwelling on it. But I'm seeing a lot of other interesting threads; maybe I can help other people or at least be a voice of warning.

 

The good news is that I already have a poker game invite for this weekend. I am a bit rusty but we'll see what happens.

 

And BettyDraper, please don't use my Don Draper signature quote against me. Haha! Your ex is just very quotable.

Edited February 6, 2019 by CantGetEnuff

[BettyDraper]

He's admitted he's probably a narcissist so I think this explains it.

 

My BIL just quit therapy after 3 visits and his marriage and family is in absolute shambles. He's a narcissist. He says it is not "helping him" (but of course he needs no help and going in the first place was just for show) and instead puts all the blame on my sis and tells her if SHE really wanted things to change SHE would be going to therapy TWICE A WEEK instead of just once a week (while he refuses to go at all, even with her to couples therapy).

 

It's true that personality disordered individuals rarely seek help.

 

I am so sorry that your sister's husband is so awful.

[BettyDraper]

Good Day #6 Down

 

Well it's basically been a week now. I feel as though I've gotten the old daily habits out of my system. Not saying that I am a new man or anything, I'll be realistic and admit I need a LOT of good weeks strung together before going to that extent, but I do feel like progress has been made.

 

I will probably slow down posting in this thread, as I'm starting to think that the more I talk/type about this now, the more I will think about it, and the more I might be tempted to fall off the wagon. I think it's healthier, at least for me, to push it aside and focus on other interests to avoid dwelling on it. But I'm seeing a lot of other interesting threads; maybe I can help other people or at least be a voice of warning.

 

The good news is that I already have a poker game invite for this weekend. I am a bit rusty but we'll see what happens.

 

And BettyDraper, please don't use my Don Draper signature quote against me. Haha! Your ex is just very quotable.

 

I loved Don but he wasn't a good husband. Henry and I are more compatible.

 

You will need far more than a "few good weeks". You will need at least a year of refraining from your reprehensible behavior.