I'm addicted to women and need to hold myself accountable.

[Tamfana]

@SmartDude,

 

I've had some of the same thought exercises over the years.

 

I mean, I don't think anyone would argue that evolution drives men to be monogamous. In fact, it's the exact opposite. We're programmed to 'spread the wealth,' so to speak. And it's not just me or you, it's men in general. You and I aren't biologically unique, hell we're the template.

 

So we've set up this society where men are expected to be monogamous with one women for 20, 30, 40+ years when every fiber of our DNA is telling us this is not natural. Is anyone surprised at the number of divorces or affairs? At men's obsession with porn, sex chat, anything to do with seeing/interacting with women?

 

So what's the 'fix?'I don't know.

 

There isn't only one evolutionary drive for men, or for people in general. For many or most there are several drives and one of them is the need for community.

 

You see it come into play for even the most individualistic people when they are sick or disabled in some way, such as when we age. (Keep in mind that viagra and cialis are VERY recent inventions, if ya get my drift. ha) At the primal level, we all need others even if only when we are injured, sick or aging, temporarily or long term.

 

Also, in a broader sense, groups are stronger and more productive than individuals are. Both practically and emotionally, people also need... people.

 

That might be why you aren't telling your wife the truth about who you are and what you have done and are doing- you don't want to lose your primary community, your family.

 

I always wonder why the super-individualistic people grouse about the social pressures to marry or be monogamous. It's very easy to just be alone and be a free agent sexually. But a lot of them don't want that at all. They want both the community of family or a partner who keeps the home fires burning AND no strings attached.

[FMW]

There are men who honor their marital vows. That doesn't mean they aren't ever attracted to other women, it just means they value their marriages more than their animal cravings.

 

There are married men who cheat and feel entitled to act on every urge they have. They are selfish and self-involved and want the security and stability of having a wife at home but want to screw whoever else captures their attention for the moment.

 

There are men who realize they aren't cut out for commitment and remain single and free to act on their urges without lying and cheating.

[JuneL]

@Rayce,

 

Absolutely!

 

And look I am not trying to paint anyone as the 'bad guy.'

 

It's just facts. Traditional ideas of marriage are very outdated for our modern society. I mean, if anyone else suggested a social behavior that had like a 70-80% failure rate (my personal estimate, counting divorce, unhappy couples, and any cheating), people would say, "What the hell kind of idea is this?"

 

That’s what’s beyond me. Nobody was pointing a gun at you to get married, I assume? In fact, men like you shouldn’t be married to begin with. So I agree. You shouldn’t be married.

[CantGetEnuff]

@JuneL,

 

And you're right, I probably shouldn't have. But I am, and it's deciding not to get married in the first place and deciding to end an (longish) marriage to a good person, and with kids, are very different decisions.

 

My wife is a great person, smart, and sexy, and my kids are great.

 

So yes although I should have stayed single, I didn't, and I'm here to make the most of it and be a better husband to her.

 

That doesn't mean I'm not allowed to engage in thought exercises and point out the (obvious) issues with the whole idea of marriage.

 

I haven't stepped out physically with another woman for a long time, and I see no reason I can't keep that track record going.

[elaine567]

I always wonder why the super-individualistic people grouse about the social pressures to marry or be monogamous. It's very easy to just be alone and be a free agent sexually. But a lot of them don't want that at all. They want both the community of family or a partner who keeps the home fires burning AND no strings attached.

 

 

Exactly, few are forced into marriage or monogamy in reality.

If monogamy is not your thing then would you want to mess monogamous people up?

It is pure selfishness...

[Wallysbears]

 

Thanks to my parents.. I have no clue what a healthy relationship looks like and from reading these boards and observing those around me over the years... I don't think very many people really do..

 

Maybe that's the bigger issue then?

 

I wonder if it is people that didn't have the modeling of healthy marriages/relationships are the ones that have an issue with marriage and fidelity.

[Rayce]

Society teaches us from a very small age that we need to grow up and get married and be monogamous all other lifestyles are not acceptable. Luckily things are changing and people are now more free to be who they really are and not hide behind closed doors.

[elaine567]

Monogamy works in peaceful societies as it gives every man the chance of a wife, a family and the chance to pass on their genes.

It is good for kids and is good for maintaining peace.

Gangs of eternal bachelors are fantastic for fighting wars but gangs of eternal bachelors roaming the streets and fighting over women isn't good.

[Tamfana]

Exactly, few are forced into marriage or monogamy in reality.

If monogamy is not your thing then would you want to mess monogamous people up?

It is pure selfishness...

 

Yep. Also, deceit undermines the community, the family, as we know from hearing the stories of the children, men and women who've had parents or partners deceive them about their activities.

 

It's hard to not sound condemning on this topic but the message is, make your choice and stand by it no matter what you're choosing. Don't pretend to not know the natural consequences of your choice whichever it might be. Deceit is a choice.

 

This family factor is so often ignored by the people who view monogamy as unnatural or an oppression. But the benefits are apparent when you hit your 50's and 60's and see people who have built a marriage and family for decades and you're alone.

[Mr. Lucky]

There are men who honor their marital vows. That doesn't mean they aren't ever attracted to other women, it just means they value their marriages more than their animal cravings.

 

CantGetEnuff, I wonder if this equation isn't slightly backwards for men like you?

 

It's not that your "animal cravings" are so strong, but rather the value you place on your marriage is so relatively little. With your ego-driven view of the world and track record of success with women, some part of you may view your spouse as fairly disposable.

 

I mean sure, you'd miss her, but I'd wager you're sure your bed wouldn't be cold for long...

 

Mr. Lucky

[The Dude Abides]

Gangs of eternal bachelors are fantastic for fighting wars but gangs of eternal bachelors roaming the streets and fighting over women isn't good.

 

 

LOL Elaine, I never heard it stated this way, but you're right on the mark with this one.

 

I personally am quite happy with stability and my long-term lack of variety

[CantGetEnuff]

@Mr Lucky, that's an interesting idea you brought up...

 

Maybe? I don't know. I don't really think my view of the world is "ego driven." I prefer to think I'm just pragmatic.

 

1) I think many people lie (to themselves and others) about how they really feel deep down inside about their relationship/marriage/what have you.

 

2) I feel many people feel that they don't really have a lot of options, or just despise dating, and they are thus elated to have "locked down" someone.

 

3) And I think a TON of people just "go with the flow" (i.e. follow the majority) and get married without really thinking, "Crap, if this 'succeeds,' I will have to answer to this person for the next 50 years.'" Think about how young most people are when they get married; in their 20s and early 30s. There is no way that they can fully comprehend the decision they are making. It's like asking an 8th grader what they want to do career-wise for the rest of their lives.

 

Think about how many people just "go with the flow" without thinking a lot about it.

 

Getting a house = "going with the flow." A LOT of people would be better off without a house, but that is rarely acknowledged.

 

Getting married and having kids = "going with the flow." It's sort of expected, from all the ways women are socialized with media/institutions all the way down to grandparents pressing for grandchildren.

 

Think about the "old gag" of the bride chasing the groom down, or the wife being the "old ball and chain." You think those ideas came out of nowhere??

 

I just wish people would be honest about these issues and stop demonizing others who point out the numerous and significant flaws.

[Wallysbears]

The thing is? It is too late to have these 'revelations' once you've already gotten married.

 

The time to ponder these questions isn't when you are knee deep in infidelity after having betrayed and lied to your spouse so many times it can't be counted. The time to ponder these things was before you said "I do".

 

sitting around and debating the institution of marriage is fine. Just not when you ARE married and cheating and hiding that from your partner.

[Mr. Lucky]

@Mr Lucky, that's an interesting idea you brought up...

 

Maybe? I don't know. I don't really think my view of the world is "ego driven." I prefer to think I'm just pragmatic.

 

1) I think many people lie (to themselves and others) about how they really feel deep down inside about their relationship/marriage/what have you.

 

2) I feel many people feel that they don't really have a lot of options, or just despise dating, and they are thus elated to have "locked down" someone.

 

Agreed. And I'd offer your self-described "superiority complex" makes these points less compelling to you.

 

Getting a house = "going with the flow." A LOT of people would be better off without a house, but that is rarely acknowledged.

 

Getting married and having kids = "going with the flow." It's sort of expected, from all the ways women are socialized with media/institutions all the way down to grandparents pressing for grandchildren.

 

Staying faithful to your marriage = "going with the flow." ???

 

Mr. Lucky

[elaine567]

...some part of you may view your spouse as fairly disposable.

...or he is secure in the fact she will not divorce him, no matter what he does.

[Wallysbears]

...or he is secure in the fact she will not divorce him, no matter what he does.

 

Can't be that secure if he's hiding the affairs.

[Mr. Lucky]

...or he is secure in the fact she will not divorce him, no matter what he does.

 

Possibly true and really just the other side of the same coin.

 

Which points to the fallacy of the whole "addicted to women" thing. Perhaps most men in relationships feel the same baseline of temptation, the difference is in the values assigned to the risk/reward ratio...

 

Mr. Lucky

[CantGetEnuff]

To be clear, I haven't done anything inappropriate at all at all since I've joined this site.

 

Again, no medal expected for 10 days of good behavior, but it's a good step forward for me. I am still retraining my brain to avoid those behaviors and do more constructive stuff. And I got a call back from a therapist and it might be a good fit.

[JuneL]

Or maybe she’s not been as faithful to him as he has believed.

[CantGetEnuff]

I don't understand what some of you all are trying to accomplish with your responses.

 

To make me feel bad? I mean, why?

 

I have changed my behavior. I can't go back and erase my past behavior, no matter what you all say. Isn't that the whole point of people coming here, to get support, adopt healthier behaviors, and move forward?

[Wallysbears]

You haven't changed your behavior, you've had 10 days of not engaging in inappropriate behavior. They are two different things. And you are here typing about how marriage is an antiquated institution, etc. which goes to the fact that you haven't CHANGED, you've just managed not to engage in your baser desires.

[mark clemson]

I don't understand what some of you all are trying to accomplish with your responses.

 

To make me feel bad? I mean, why?

 

I have changed my behavior. I can't go back and erase my past behavior, no matter what you all say. Isn't that the whole point of people coming here, to get support, adopt healthier behaviors, and move forward?

 

 

Can't, perhaps they can say it better themselves, but keep in mind that a significant number of posters here have either been VERY VERY deeply hurt by someone who they thought loved them or have had the experience of deeply hurting someone they ultimately realized they cared about and should have done better by. Others may have moral views that are very different from yours.

 

So, when someone who has never gone through the nightmare of a D-day appears to take a cavalier attitude towards infidelity (even if you are genuinely taking concrete steps to address your issues), I think it evokes a lack of sympathy, which may be coming across in some posts.

 

Please note that I'm not judging you or anyone else around here - just stating what I perceive to be a fact.

[JuneL]

Or maybe she’s not been as faithful to him as he has believed.

 

In case your previous comment was directed toward me...

 

I just can’t believe someone can be so clueless as to ignore all the signs of being cheated on repeatedly. One logical explanation is that she might not care as much as you want to believe. I’m just curious to know if you’re more understanding about your spouse infidelity compared to some of us.

[Ronni_W]

I just wish people would be honest about these issues and stop demonizing others who point out the numerous and significant flaws.

Actually, YOU are the one demonizing (in your own mind) those people who are pointing out the significant flaws in your own way of thinking and looking at the world.

 

One of the most significant of these is your attitude that "what my wife doesn't know won't/can't hurt her". But, (let's play pretend for just a minute), if your wife was carrying on this kind of behaviour

without your knowing, can you honestly say that you current level of sense of contentment, security and love that you feel around/because of her/your marriage is not at all compromised?

 

You are continually failing to grasp the magnitude of deep, positive, accurate insight into your own psyche, that the people here have been offering you, and continue to offer you.

This is a lack of ability on your part...no matter your self-perceived level of intelligence/sophistication.

 

I don't understand what some of you all are trying to accomplish with your responses.

 

To make me feel bad? I mean, why?

As contrary, or counter-intuitive as this may sound, most people don't care about making other people 'feel bad' unless those people have made us feel bad, first.

YOU have not made anyone here feel bad, so you're not actually important enough, here, for people to have some grudge or resentment against you,

to drive or motivate them to expend time and Energy to make you feel bad.

It's still just your own inability/lack to recognize what can actually help you, that is making you think/feel 'bad' about accurate feedback.

 

The LoveShack community is about success...when one succeeds, we all succeed. So, to doubt that we are all rooting for your success fails to grasp what this community is all about.

Edited February 11, 2019 by Ronni_W

[Tamfana]

People who think differently than you do are not necessarily lying.

 

I wasn't posting to make you feel bad. Actually I thought that bringing up your family would make you feel good and would make it easier for you to stop wandering, that your kids and family would be the deciding factor.

 

But there's just one more example of how different people think and feel differently.