"Confess your love" is a big mistake

[preraph]

Simply announcing to somebody that you are not dating that you "love" them is unwelcome & violates traditional social norms. That is why such an announcement never works. It's out of left field & telegraphs that the person making the confession is socially clueless.

 

If you like a person, you ask them on a date. That is the conventional way to begin a relationship. A date is merely a social construct. It's a specified time & activity where two people set aside time to get to know each other better. A date by itself is not a commitment, at least not one longer then the agreement to spend a few hours in the other person's presence.

 

Save declarations of love for much later after you have gotten to know each other more.

 

Not only socially clueless but delusional. That person is living in their head, that's all. And a person living in their head to that extreme probably isn't going to see the actual person for who they are anytime soon. They will be constantly projecting who they want them to be on them and then be bitter when "they changed." They didn't change.

[d0nnivain]

This stuff cracks me up....

 

Women will say all types of things to guys..."Don't do this"..."Don't do that", "wait a while til they know you better"....

 

Here's the reality...

 

If they are into you ,they'll happily let you put a hot branding iron on their ass with your initials on it...If they aren't they'll turn you away at "hi, my name iz xyz"..

 

This isn't that complicated..

 

TFY

 

Lots of people are superficially good looking / attractive / hot. I pass by handsome men all day every day.

 

When I was single & would see those men, my initial attraction would spark. 9/10x once they opened their mouths . . . . pfffttt that was the end of that.

 

So no matter how hunky, some guy who declared his love for me would be frozen out immediately for being clueless.

 

It really does all boil down to self confidence on both sides. In the end that is what every self help dating guru, life coach, PUA teaches: stop being a whiney, sniveling doormat.

[basil67]

After analyzing all these facts

 

They are NOT FACTS. They are observations. Honestly, the more you try and push science as being factual, the more credibility you lose.

 

The stuff you're reading is toxic. We can argue against it, but at the end of the day we continue on with our lives. But if you stick with this stuff, you're the one who will ultimately end up lonely and sad. You're telling us that you're happy, but a happy dude wouldn't be making the posts you do....they'd just be getting on with their happy lives.

[Curiousroxy86]

Many men have told me I love you mad early. I won't rain on his parade. Let him feel what he think he feeling. But I won't believe his "I love you" until I see atleast six months of consistent treating me right. And I will continue to believe it as long as I continue seeing actions that support it. My love language is actions not words. As far as me saying it back I will say it back when I feel like I truly love him. I have never said it first though simply because I don't feel it at the time they tell me. But even if I did I don't think I would intiate lol. I am a big believer in allowing men initiating major relationship milestones personally. But that's just me.

[PRW]

In the time I’ve been reading here, I actually have begun to feel bad for the guys (especially) that need to cling to the words of these authors as though a fanatic religion. I’m sorry for what seems to be a major void of positive male role models that has left a vacuum in regards to knowing how to interact with women to the point that money is thrown at mediocre authors and coaches to “teach” common sense stuff.

 

Or that the generalities are thought to be gospel that must be strictly adhered to in every interaction.

 

When you read these coaches words, are you not capable of learning a broad lesson and then adapting that as suited?

Still trying to figure out which side of it you are putting me on....as I respect those authors and what they try to offer (and try to help others with it),...but I don't worship them and certainly don't consider it a religion. Although one prominent author's work, of whom is no secret here, had completely turned my life around for the better years ago when I was as big a mess as some of the people who come here for advice.

 

That said I don't think that "re-writing" the content of such people's books to try to create a discussion thread to be productive in the least bit. It would be more sensible to do that with a select group of people who have read the material and made some effort to understand it. Then they can discuss it in a sensible way their views of the material in a similar way a book club may do with it's members. But just blowing it out there to "the masses" shotgun style will do nothing more than divide people and start a fire storm.

[basil67]

That's exactly what several women do. Have you ever heard about "sex strikes" or not?

 

The problem is that when a man withholds intimacy from a woman, he is labelled as a jerk, impotent, manipulative, abusive, etc.

 

On the contrary, a woman who withholds sex is considered "normal" and the problem is still the man in this situation. Have you ever read Esthar Vilar's book? She is the person who reveals these facts despite being a woman herself. Not surprisingly, she was criticized by people of her own gender.

 

I've heard of sex strikes. It's where a women is fed up with how she's being treated and retaliates by removing something from him in the hope of getting him to change. No different to an industrial strike. I don't agree with sex strikes, though I do understand not wanting to have sex with a guy who's treating me badly.

 

I have never once heard of a guy withholding sex as being labelled a jerk, manipulative or abusive. (Impotence is a diagnosis, not a label.). When women come here concerned about lack of sex from her husband, the advice is about looking at his health, hormones, medications, stress, tiredness, substance abuse and possible marital problems.

 

I also have never heard of a woman "withholding" sex as being 'normal'. Sure, it's not uncommon to have a decreased sex drive at certain times of a woman's life - for example when she's got a baby or young kids, or menopause (The former being due to tiredness and hormones. The second being totally due to hormones) but a decreased sex drive is different to making a conscious choice to withhold sex.

 

Outside of this book you're reading, I'd be interested to see if you can back up your claims.

[Wallysbears]

Still trying to figure out which side of it you are putting me on....as I respect those authors and what they try to offer (and try to help others with it),...but I don't worship them and certainly don't consider it a religion. Although one prominent author's work, of whom is no secret here, had completely turned my life around for the better years ago when I was as big a mess as some of the people who come here for advice.

 

That said I don't think that "re-writing" the content of such people's books to try to create a discussion thread to be productive in the least bit. It would be more sensible to do that with a select group of people who have read the material and made some effort to understand it. Then they can discuss it in a sensible way their views of the material in a similar way a book club may do with it's members. But just blowing it out there to "the masses" shotgun style will do nothing more than divide people and start a fire storm.

 

You strike me as the one that has read, absorbed, interpreted and applied what works. Not taking it as “gospel”

[thefooloftheyear]

Lots of people are superficially good looking / attractive / hot. I pass by handsome men all day every day.

 

When I was single & would see those men, my initial attraction would spark. 9/10x once they opened their mouths . . . . pfffttt that was the end of that.

 

So no matter how hunky, some guy who declared his love for me would be frozen out immediately for being clueless.

 

It really does all boil down to self confidence on both sides. In the end that is what every self help dating guru, life coach, PUA teaches: stop being a whiney, sniveling doormat.

 

Only a complete idiot would do that...(bolded)

 

But I think you missed the point....Positive feedback/body language from women has always been easy to spot/feel...for me, anyway...And from there it's not really all that hard to go further...

 

Just professing love for some woman without really knowing how she feels, is the dumbest thing I have ever heard of...

 

TFY

[preraph]

Lots of people are superficially good looking / attractive / hot. I pass by handsome men all day every day.

 

When I was single & would see those men, my initial attraction would spark. 9/10x once they opened their mouths . . . . pfffttt that was the end of that.

 

So no matter how hunky, some guy who declared his love for me would be frozen out immediately for being clueless.

 

It really does all boil down to self confidence on both sides. In the end that is what every self help dating guru, life coach, PUA teaches: stop being a whiney, sniveling doormat.

 

Oh, yeah. Good looks get women's attention, but something off will end it right there. Example, decades ago when I was approaching 30, a friend brought over a couple of guys. One was really good looking and he got fixated on me immediately, even though he was too young for me. He started acting weird and said I was "one of them" and thought "they" were present. And it's actually true that the room seemed to change. It seemed like there was wind in one corner of the room. I'm admitting it seemed like something kind of paranormal was happening. He even said my drunk friend was about to talk about a certain thing right before she did it, and he didn't know her at all well. Then he said he could tell by my eyes that I was one of them and he was very excited, like he was supposed to worship me or something. It was very extreme. Schizophrenic, certainly (and as to the paranormal, there are some psychiatrists who have noted paranormal activity increases in the schizophrenic, for what it's worth).

 

Anyway, he began stalking me but in the most respectful fashion, waiting outside until I got home and not bothering me to come in if I ignored him. But then one time my friend let him in again and he went kind of nuts, manic-like, and we had to kick him out. That's an extreme example, but once someone sends up some red flags, whether it's defensiveness or craziness or bitterness or overly full of themselves, most women are going to not be that tempted anymore.

 

Likewise, someone who starts talking about being in love from the start and pushing for more and talking marriage before they even know you is a huge red flag. It can be maybe that they are just young and naive and think they know the script from a movie or a porn film, or it can be dangerous if the person is truly delusional, which happened to a friend of mine. No amount of talking could make him see reason. And many times it's about control. So it's always something to be wary of, and back them up on by saying, "Forgive me for not taking you seriously, but you don't know me at all, so you must be in love with a woman in your head."

[Only-yours]

They are NOT FACTS. They are observations. Honestly, the more you try and push science as being factual, the more credibility you lose.

 

The stuff you're reading is toxic. We can argue against it, but at the end of the day we continue on with our lives. But if you stick with this stuff, you're the one who will ultimately end up lonely and sad. You're telling us that you're happy, but a happy dude wouldn't be making the posts you do....they'd just be getting on with their happy lives.

 

There is nothing "toxic" about what Esther Vilar wrote. Whatever she wrote might appear "toxic" to people because whatever she wrote is factual and absolute truth. Whatever she wrote might appear "toxic" to people because she wrote the truth and as they say, "Truth is always bitter."

 

In fact, I encourage other men to read Esther Vilar's books and follow whatever she says. I salute her for revealing the manipulative side of female psychology.

 

As far as sex strikes are concerned, do you think only women with low sex drive go on a "sex strike", not women with high sex drives? If that is what you're trying to say, then that means that majority of women have low sex drives. If we just look back into history, we can see a vast majority of women went on a "sex strike" and a very few women haven't. Now will you deny the fact that the vast majority of a women did in fact went on a sex strike? While many may argue that the main purpose of "sex strike" was to bring "peace", this does not change the fact that majority of women can use sex as a weapon. This also gives me impression that sex is less important to women, as they are the ones who are abstaining from sex. At least I am getting this impression. You do not abstain from something you truly desire, would you Mrs. basil67? Now would you still not agree with me or with whatever Esther Vilar wrote, Mrs basil67?? Answer me please.

 

You cited "Psychologytoday" Website in one of your posts in the same thread. Now here is the same website that says that men are constantly shamed for their sexuality:-

 

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/women-who-stray/201604/shaming-men-doesnt-build-healthy-sexuality

 

This article doesn't say that they are shamed for withholding intimacy, but for other reasons.

 

Now would you still blame me or Esther Vilar, Mrs.basil67?

[AmyHershaw]

There's one fundamental rule like this:

 

"Men fall in love quickly. And women much slower."

 

Men are visual creatures, so they tend to just fall in love with almost any woman who fits their eyes. Hence "men fall in love quickly." - That's just how they were designed to be.

 

Women, however, don't "work" that way. They need much more time in order to gradually develop the required emotions for loving.

 

In this sense, let's imagine a loading bar when you download something from the Internet to your computer. You must wait it to get from 0% to 100%. You just can't "force" the process. The same thing applies to women. Their emotions for you (the guys) need time to increase day by day. And when their "loading bar" finally reaches 100%, that's when they love you.

 

So, back to the title of this topic: When inexperienced guys "CONFESS" (yuck!) their love to women, you have virtually turned women into vending machines, and their "confession" the coins.

 

Based on that falsed mindset, they believe by putting the "coins" into the "vending machines", they will automatically receive the "soda" (love from the woman)?

 

Come on guys. Women don't work that way.

 

Coming from someone who has dated both males and females, I can say taking a long period of time for emotions to develop and lust coming before love applies to both. I believe it is dependant on an individual's attitude rather than their gender. Some women notice physical appearance first like some guys do, other women and men prefer to learn about someone and build a connection with them first.

[basil67]

Only_yours, I have never gone on a sex strike and have no idea what you're talking about. And I repeat, in the sciences, only mathematics has truth. Science/social science does not have truth or fact - rather, it is self correcting.

Edited February 5, 2019 by basil67

[PRW]

Only_yours, I have never gone on a sex strike

I wonder if hookers in Vegas ever do that for more pay, more vacation time, better medical?

[JuneL]

Only a complete idiot would do that...(bolded)

 

But I think you missed the point....Positive feedback/body language from women has always been easy to spot/feel...for me, anyway...And from there it's not really all that hard to go further...

 

Just professing love for some woman without really knowing how she feels, is the dumbest thing I have ever heard of...

 

TFY

 

^^^ This.

I think most if not all guys who have trouble dating are extremely poor in reading body language and understanding subtle cues from women. So those dating gurus became their godsend, as they need to have a manual to follow step by step.

 

Actually such issue is not limited to guys. I have a female friend or two who have had trouble reading romantic signals from men; more specifically, they would overestimate a man’s romantic interest big time. But this is a chicken and egg problem, as these individuals tend to have very limited dating experience.