So many clichés, so obvious... how come I cant stop it?

[BTDT2012]

I told her, ok, I want you to call for a partners meeting right away, to say that you are living the company after your honeymoon.

 

 

What is your plan if she doesn't call for the meeting?

[Amethyst68]

Have some decency and act with integrity - tell your wife! This woman is the victim and deserves to be able to make an informed decision about her life.

 

Are you still going to the wedding? If you're wife was suspicious she may have investigated and found proof, she may be planning for a big reveal at the wedding...

[Orokotikki]

I hope she files a suit: "He said if I didn't want to continue the affair I had to resign!"

[PhoenixRising8]

Maybe that’s the plan ... blow up the wedding and marriage without actually doing anything yourself. Easier than actually making the decision to end the primary relationship or initiating the difficult conversation.

[mark clemson]

Also glad this looks like it's starting to come to a resolution.

 

I hope rather than trying to force her out, you assist her with placement, a good rec etc. It's win-win, at least as much as anything CAN be in your situation, and it seems to me like you at least owe her that. You might be in a pretty toxic place right now emotionally, but try to make it easy on both of you.

 

You may be in emotional pain for longer than you want, but unless you're very different from most people it WILL fade in time. I think in time you'd regret screwing up her career a lot more than you would letting her go amicably.

[Abetterme]

I agree with Mark. I know you are hurt by her response and rejection of you, but she is trying to do the right thing moving forward and I think for both of your sakes you should try and make the professional split as amicable as possible.

 

I know you have stated many times over the course of this thread that there is no risk of a lawsuit, but people get ugly when they are hurt. Use your connections to help her find something hopefully ahead of her wedding so she can come back and break ties and things don’t look more abrupt (ahem, obvious) to the rest of your organization.

 

I am sorry you are hurting, but you knew in your heart this wasn’t headed anywhere positive. I wish you the best in sticking to your commitment.

[Amethyst68]

Am I the only one who believes this affair is nowhere near over?

 

There will be more phone calls and meetings where they end up at a hotel 'unable to resist'.

[ManMar]

New update--

 

We have been talking on the phone for more than three hours.

 

It is not that I've fired her, we had discussed in the past that breaking out would mean that we would need to part ways. Basically, that she would need to leave the company.

 

I dont want to hurt her, she has to leave, but I will provide flexibility and assist on the transition. Actually, she is quite valuable for the company, it is not that I want to fire her, it is that I simply cannot work alongside her while she builds her life with another guy.

 

She totally understands. Sure, she does not like it, but we didnot have a belligerent conversation. We talked on how we could make it work between us, with no conclusion.

 

She is trying to do the right thing. I totally agree. I dont have bad feelings for her.

 

I do think this is going to be the end of this story. I feel terribly bad. I know there is a high risk I miss her and try to come back to it, but it is very unlikely any of my potential movements succeeds. We have crossed the line of no return, and we both know it.

 

I feel like **** now.

[bmh]

Am I the only one who believes this affair is nowhere near over?

 

There will be more phone calls and meetings where they end up at a hotel 'unable to resist'.

 

 

Idk of anyone who has succeeded at the first attempt of no contact. I may have missed a thread somewhere.

 

So no, I’m sure it’s not over, unfortunately. Fingers crossed he can prove us wrong and get out of this madness.

[ManMar]

Am I the only one who believes this affair is nowhere near over?

 

There will be more phone calls and meetings where they end up at a hotel 'unable to resist'.

 

Some other times that could be the case. Not this one. I do think we are over. We are exhausted of the situation to the point that we are really unhappy. She is getting married, so she'll be distracted. She is leaving the company.

 

I really think this is over.

[bmh]

Try your best to be as no contact as your profession allows. Post as often as you need for support. It will hurt for a while but it does get BETTER. I promise.

 

Have you decided if you want to stay in your marriage?

[ManMar]

Try your best to be as no contact as your profession allows. Post as often as you need for support. It will hurt for a while but it does get BETTER. I promise.

 

Have you decided if you want to stay in your marriage?

 

We can go 100% NC once she leaves. Most likely she will move to a different country to follow her fiancee (he was promoted and moved a few months ago).

 

With regards to my marriage, I explained before. I dont have a particular problem with my wife. Just the opposite, I have absolutely no regrets. She is caring, beautiful and well above me in terms of integrity. This is not a typical situation where the main relationship is damaged and you need a way out.

 

I fell in love with this girl without looking for anything. It was not my best moment, as we had a family tragedy from which I was not recovered (I am still not recovered from that). I guess this girl provided a momentary escape and a way to think about something positive, totally unrelated to my past. For those that didnot follow the thread, this girl is 29yo and I am 50; I have never pursued a young women, it is just not my thing. She just happened to be really young.

Edited March 26, 2019 by ManMar

[Timshel]

We can go 100% NC once she leaves. Most likely she will move to a different country to follow her fiancee (he was promoted and moved a few months ago).

 

With regards to my marriage, I explained before. I dont have a particular problem with my wife. Just the opposite, I have absolutely no regrets. She is caring, beautiful and well above me in terms of integrity. This is not a typical situation where the main relationship is damaged and you need a way out.

 

I fell in love with this girl without looking for anything. It was not my best moment, as we had a family tragedy from which I was not recovered (I am still not recovered from that). I guess this girl provided a momentary escape and a way to think about something positive, totally unrelated to my past. For those that didnot follow the thread, this girl is 29yo and I am 50; I have never pursued a young women, it is just not my thing. She just happened to be really young.

 

 

Honestly, no poster cares about the age difference, you are the one bringing it up.

Bolded: is this the part we nod our heads knowingly and say, I get it manmar...i get it dude...sarcasm.

 

For the price of nothing I will give you something that costs a bit much.

 

 

Do something, otherwise, you are only another bore in a long line of bores in this forum.

Again, that you think of your wife as a back up plan instead of a life partner is grotesque.

 

Not because you won't leave her for 'some person who has already shown zero integrity.'

 

Because you are equal in value as a partner as your ap, though you are so lost in your ego, you don't get it.

 

You have to be with each other now, otherwise, this 'love story' has no integrity.

 

 

Do you not wrap your head around this?

[Amethyst68]

Your wife deserves to know she is plan b. That you wanted to leave, that you proposed a plan to OW to leave in 2 years proves this.

 

BTW if OW is a partner in your business not an employee what happens if she just decides not to leave? Can you legally get rid of her?

[ManMar]

I usually don't engage in messages written with a bitter tone, or pointing out the obvious "someone guilty, someone victim" roles in any A. I believe that they are less about the content than about the person that writes them. Anyway, I get we are all here to somehow vent our own frustrations. No offense taken. I appreciate the time spent making comments. All helps.

 

Not sure how I am giving the impression that my wife is plan B. She is plan A. I am dealing with the aftermath of a messy situation that has gotten me emotionally involved beyond what I never expected. This is what this thread is about.

 

It is really easy to assess this whole thing from an ethical perspective. I am not blind by my ego, I know that what I am doing is morally wrong. It is also not a question of who is the bigger evil, the OW or myself; that is totally irrelevant to me. Finally, it is obvious that both my wife and her BF can suffer as a consequence of our actions, and they dont deserve it. In other words, the moral judgment of the A is quite straightforward and not original from most affair situations. I have never justified my actions.

 

I bring the age gap to the picture because it is objectively relevant. There is a big difference between the OW and me, in terms of life experience, expectations and the moment we are living. It would be very naive to think that it is not a relevant point. We are an example of how love can show up regardless of the differences, but we are not an example of a successful relationship. We both know that it would be very difficult outside fantasyland, where we have been living for a long time. It would not be impossible, but it is a consideration nevertheless.

 

To those pointing out the risk of a lawsuit. There is none. Suffice to say that I am a businessman and I know what I am talking about. Btw, do not make extrapolations from your experience in the US, the world is much bigger, legal systems differ and details are important.

 

Now, there will be an impact of the OW leaving the company. She is the first employee, knows the business inside out, and she is very brilliant at her job. I am not sure how we will replace her, but in any case, this is a second order consideration for me. This is a business issue that you encounter many times. We will figure it out and move on. She will find a job in no time.

 

Having said that, it would also be naif to think that her position in the company does not have a weight in her decision making. She is a junior partner in a young company, with an objective very attractive upside. She lives a comfortable work life, in a very interesting industry, with responsibilities over people and lots of freedom. She is my right hand, I mentor and support her. She will easily find another job, but most likely it is going to be a short term step back. All this is also in her mind. Would this be a reason for her to come back to the A? I dont think it'll be the reason, but no doubt it has an influence.

 

Do I love her? yes. Do I have doubts on her integrity? yes. She surely thinks the same on me.

 

Seeing this OW marrying her BF when I positively know she is doing it purely on practical reasons is a huge red flag. How she flirted with her married boss, and insisting after I rejected the first advances, all is a red flag. Inviting me regularly to her home and making love in their bed because her BF is away is a red flag. Listening ILYs from her when I know she has to be saying similar words to her BF is a red flag. Seeing how she is able to split her mind into two separate worlds is a red flag. Knowing her past and seeing that she has been unable to be really committed in any relationship is a red flag.

 

Needless to say, I also have a long list of red flags on my own. Yes, we both are a Chinese military parade. Wherever you look: red flags.

 

When I look at this objectively, for me there are plenty of reasons to get out and run. The weird part, which I struggle with, is how can I still love her?

Edited March 27, 2019 by ManMar

[Amethyst68]

You were the one that told us you gave the OW an option to wait for 2 years when you would be able to be free to be with her. What about that indicates your wife is plan A?

 

You would still have to break up your marriage to be with her, unless you don't expect your wife to still be around at that point e.g.if she is seriously ill.

[Naivewomen]

I am sorry you are going through this pain. It seems that you are still very much infatuated and addicted to her. You need time to heal and suppress your emotions. She is a young woman who probably wants to start a family of her own. You have to let her go!! Easier said that done believe me I know. The experience you had with her was a learning one for you. You seem like an educated person so take it for what it was. An experience of great feelings and emotions for another person but morally and ethically a bad decision. Horrible mess, I know. Hang in there!!

[ManMar]

You were the one that told us you gave the OW an option to wait for 2 years when you would be able to be free to be with her. What about that indicates your wife is plan A?

 

You would still have to break up your marriage to be with her, unless you don't expect your wife to still be around at that point e.g.if she is seriously ill.

 

At some point I seriously considered breaking with my current life and making the OW my plan A. That was a year ago now. I save you time on the details, but I could not do something like that within a three year period, now two years.

 

The OW knew this and given the lack of visibility decided to accept the marriage proposal from her BF (after a very short turbulence, our A continued along the side). From then on, a future with the OW was a plan B, in terms of likelihood that it could happen. Given the facts, I was obviously also a plan B for her.

 

Now, we have broken up. I know there is a risk of recurrence, but the likelihood of a future together is even lower than it was. She is getting married!

 

Update- yesterday night we spoke for many hours. The tone is totally different from just a couple of days ago. We are colder, swallowing the reality that we are breaking up. We didnot focus on how we love each other, but on how sick this relationship is. We still fight with the idea, but we recognize that we are making ourselves very unhappy. She cant see how we can find happiness on us, when she is getting married and we are not going to be together any time soon.

 

I am a fighter by nature, which is not a good quality in this situation. She is more realistic, she is assuming much quicker this is really over. She said she is physically consumed, that she could not live like this anymore and that she cant see how the future is going to be any better; that we are going to jump from crises to crises. I softened that view, but deep down I know that is exactly right. We ended the conversation in a very downbeat tone.

 

We are both in denial, fighting the harsh reality. She met a girlfriend for a drink, that supported the logical step of ending all this. However, she sent me a text late at night, saying that we should talk today at some point, that she feels she has been too negative. Even though I project a much more optimistic view, I am able to see the reality too: I dont think she is negative, she is realistic.

 

I am exhausted, she is exhausted. I am going to focus on my work and keep my mind busy and productive. I need some air.

[pepperbird]

op,

let me start right off by saying I think you're full of it, both to us, and even worse to your wife and to yourself. That's not a place where you want to be.

 

 

 

About your ow? She's a big girl who walked into the affair, eyes wide open. In my opinion, you both thrive on the drama. It somehow fuels you both.

 

If you want to see the reality of your actions, this is an exercise that may help bring you some clarity. Try writing out a letter to your wife. Tell her all about the affair, how it got started and why it went on for so long. Let her know that you've been in angst and putting your ow's feelings before her, because to you, they mattered more. Explain why it was acceptable to you to ask her to assume the risk for your affair, because really, the one who stands to be hurt the worst isn't you or the ow, its your wife and her soon to be husband. Explain to her

 

 

 

I expect you're sitting there saying " my wife's feelings mattered", but really, they did not. You were willing to risk putting your wife through one of the worst experiences a marriage can endure if that meant protecting your OW emotionally.

 

Now, you say you've ended things, but you didn't really do it for your wife or your marriage. I think the truth is you did it for yourself. It would be too hard for you to watch your ow get married and see/ hear about her building her new life. I understand that, but I really think you need to be a lot more honest with yourself, otherwise, you are going to keep on hurting other people, which is exactly what you say you don't want to do.

 

 

I do hope you can work through all of this in an honest way.

[Amethyst68]

The fact that your OW chose to get engaged and then proceed with the wedding thereby making her no longer an option does not make your wife, your marriage plan A. What it does is make it the default choice, you can't have what you want so you're sticking with what you have. Your wife is the back-up plan here. If she were truly your plan A you would have been fighting for your marriage not fighting for the OW to decide against taking that step herself!

[elaine567]

She met a girlfriend for a drink, that supported the logical step of ending all this. However, she sent me a text late at night, saying that we should talk today at some point, that she feels she has been too negative.

 

Of course she does, she has a very comfy set up here, she won't want to give that up readily, if she can help it...

 

She needs to keep you sweet and on board for as long as she can. It is in her best interests.

She has you by the short and curlies.

Older guy, last chance saloon as regards attracting a 20 something woman, you put up with the nonsense of the fiance as you know you cannot expect any better... she wormed herself in... and now it is all about "love"...

It may be for you, but for her, I doubt it...

Take away the mentoring, the nice lifestyle, the elevated position, the partnership and you would not see her for dust, sorry to say...

 

A poster on here who was an OW got very upset when her MM got divorced and then married someone else, she asked him why if he was going to get married again did he not choose her? She was all prepared and ready to take over from the ex wife. He said the new woman would never accept him having an OW, but his existing OW was used to the role so it was so much easier for him if she stayed as the OW and they could carry on regardless...

Here your OW knows her bf would never accept her shenanigans, so that is why she is marrying him and hoping you will just carry on being her dirty little secret whilst she takes full advantage of what she can get out of you...

 

I get that this is a bit of a two way street with both of you getting some benefit here, but all this stuff about "love" just seems to me to be a bit naive, when we are talking about a woman who it seems to me is a pretty hard nut...

[mark clemson]

She is the first employee, knows the business inside out, and she is very brilliant at her job. I am not sure how we will replace her

 

Seeing this OW marrying her BF when I positively know she is doing it purely on practical reasons is a huge red flag. How she flirted with her married boss, and insisting after I rejected the first advances, all is a red flag. Inviting me regularly to her home and making love in their bed because her BF is away is a red flag. Listening ILYs from her when I know she has to be saying similar words to her BF is a red flag. Seeing how she is able to split her mind into two separate worlds is a red flag. Knowing her past and seeing that she has been unable to be really committed in any relationship is a red flag.

 

 

Sometimes it's the bright lights that cast the darkest shadows. This BF is probably counting his lucky stars on what a great catch he's found. Perhaps she's learned her lesson from this go round with you, but it sounds like her marriage blows up sooner or later. Probably once she's had her kids and starts to feel bored again. Sad. Beautiful, Intelligent, Talented, Charming, Horny.

 

Believe this will get substantially easier for you once she's in another country. Not 100% easier, but better.

 

Then, as folks are pointing out, it's time to figure out what to do on the home front. It sounds like at some level you are owning your role in all of this. Or at least not making excuses. I view telling the BS as a gamble, but there are real rewards to be had along along with the risks taken. Something to give serious consideration to for each individual case.

 

First things first. This person needs to be out of your life.

[pepperbird]

Sometimes it's the bright lights that cast the darkest shadows.

 

 

I don't like to admit this as I'm female, but there are some women out there who really know how to work a man to get what they want.

 

 

This ow, either on purpose or without realizing it, is one of those women.

She's accomplished, intelligent and has enough strength to rise high int he corporate world, yet she's too hickensh@t to call off her wedding? :rolleyes::rolleyes:

 

 

OP, she's just entitled. She wants the security and comfort of a marriage and the fun of being with you. She even started her affair before she got married. So what if she's out of the country? I'm sure she can make up excuses to pay you a visit.

 

 

Honestly, I have no idea how you, in good conscience, can allow their farce of a marriage to take place. I say tell him. let him know all the gory details. If you feel one iota of guilt, you'll save him from future heartbreak. It might be painful to him now, but it will hurt a lot worse if he finds out about the true nature of his then wife ten years from now.

[Naivewomen]

This woman operated like a MM. She adored that MM was so into her and she felt desirable. Getting it all out before she breaks her vows. Getting it out of her system. She loves the man shes marrying she just wants something fun under her belt. Years of a bachelorette party in her mind. Very rare for a woman to compartmentalize like this. Shes a rare breed all while planning her beautiful and sacred day.

Shes a catch!!

[Orokotikki]

To those pointing out the risk of a lawsuit. There is none. Suffice to say that I am a businessman and I know what I am talking about. Btw, do not make extrapolations from your experience in the US, the world is much bigger, legal systems differ and details are important.

 

I made no assumption, just expressed my hope.

 

Oh, you da clever bidness man, ain't you? Good for you champ.