stillafool Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 Well now you know why he isn't cooperating with the divorce;he's too busy dating and shuffling women. Link to post Share on other sites
Turning point Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 (edited) It seems "family" is a convenient and believable excuse in his little harem. The idea that he is married might also be part of his allure with these dysfunctional chics. He's in no hurry to change what works for him. The iPad thing is too funny. I'd think with all the deceit these people would be smart enough to close the blinds on their electronic boudoir. My SBTX talked about her OM like he was God's own gift until she found out about the other OW. Apparently, she had a zero tolerance policy for cheating. Who knew? Edited March 5, 2019 by Turning point Link to post Share on other sites
Turning point Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 you can contact him now through his email and mobile number below... I'm still torn... should I take the Free Steak Knive's or the Swiffer Deluxe? I assume I should have an answer before I call? 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Author chryssy83 Posted March 6, 2019 Author Share Posted March 6, 2019 Kind of looks to me like he’s putting together a dating profile or something with his photos. He’s been telling the new girl how she’s amazing and then she was doing a fashion show sending him pictures of her in all the different clothes she bought today. So this feels better in a sense because he didn’t leave our marriage for “the one” —he’s actually lying to the AP too and seeing at least one other person. It feels worse because how did I not realize he was such a jerk before marrying him and having two kids? He’s obviously just trying to sleep with this chick because their conversations are deep as a puddle. Link to post Share on other sites
Turning point Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 It feels worse because how did I not realize he was such a jerk before marrying him and having two kids? How did Bernie Madoff manage to scam even seasoned professional securities brokers? Without the iPad or some other window to the duplicity we don't get that aerial view from above. We don't realize on the Hollywood lot that the buildings are all fake and every last bit of action is choreographed and directed. I had 5 kids! ...and I'm a pretty smart guy. I'm also the kind of person who pulls his own weight and picks up the slack - and this is perhaps where we are vulnerable. They tell us what we want to hear, manage just enough to keep us hopeful and faithful. Our character develops and theirs does not. We grow. Our experience and expectations grow with us. They don't grow at all, not as a person. They are obsessed with self gratification and move on to new people still short on experience and low on expectation. They are constantly cultivating and grooming their next up and comer. I can look back and see things that might have been red flags, but if I'm honest with myself that's only because of the view I now have from above it all. At the time and place all of it was plausible. Was the acting superb? Sometimes, but often it was just the script - and the understandable human belief that we are on the same page. Link to post Share on other sites
vla1120 Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 It's amazing how dumb cheaters are with technology. When I obtained proof on our desktop that my (first) husband was cheating again, he acted all indignant that I had invaded his privacy (on our shared home computer that my daughters used for homework, no less. Nah, buddy.) He was married to an IT security specialist with over 30 years experience. Did he really think I wouldn't find the proof? I don't know why he is not cooperating with the divorce, but don't blame yourself for not realizing what a cad he truly is. Shame on him, not you. I wish you could subpoena the financial information you need from him and have the judge hold him in contempt if he does not comply! Link to post Share on other sites
Mysterio Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 Have one more conversation and say that you need to have this Divorce for your Mental sanity. Ask him to get it together. Or you will be forced to go ahead and take drastic measures and if he pays the financial price so be it. Just say you want a clean break. Link to post Share on other sites
Author chryssy83 Posted March 6, 2019 Author Share Posted March 6, 2019 Have one more conversation and say that you need to have this Divorce for your Mental sanity. Ask him to get it together. Or you will be forced to go ahead and take drastic measures and if he pays the financial price so be it. Just say you want a clean break. He won’t care what I need or want. And he’s hiding money from me so I’m sure keeping things clean will, in his mind, mean I don’t fully investigate that and just settle. His deadline on discovery is approaching so we will see if he produces things on time. If he doesn’t, the judge isn’t going to be very happy about that on the 20th. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author chryssy83 Posted March 6, 2019 Author Share Posted March 6, 2019 I had 5 kids! ...and I'm a pretty smart guy. I'm also the kind of person who pulls his own weight and picks up the slack - and this is perhaps where we are vulnerable. They tell us what we want to hear, manage just enough to keep us hopeful and faithful. Our character develops and theirs does not. We grow. Our experience and expectations grow with us. They don't grow at all, not as a person. I feel like he’s actually gone backward. And sometimes I still try to look for ways I’m to blame. Did I do something that hurt him and made him feel unwanted so this is what he became? I don’t think I did, but even when I look for red flags there weren’t many until he started talking about divorce and from that point on it’s been a bit of a *****show behind the scenes. Still glad I stayed because I have my daughter but I also feel stupid for not realizing that this might be who he was under the surface. How to know which is the “real him”? I don’t know. Maybe both and people are just complicated that way? He will probably deny cheating in the discovery responses. Link to post Share on other sites
stillafool Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 Well you have proof that he's cheated and you are definitely doing the right thing by divorcing this player. To ease your stress I would stop looking at everything he's doing with his other women. You already know he's with OW so at this point isn't it just better to look forward to the divorce. This is who this man was when you married him so just be happy you found out before wasting more years with him. Link to post Share on other sites
Turning point Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 (edited) Did I do something that hurt him and made him feel unwanted so this is what he became? .. but I also feel stupid for not realizing that this might be who he was under the surface. If he's pathologically narcissistic (I'm speculating, based on my own experience) then in his mind you slighted him in some way but, you wouldn't have had to do anything in the real sense. Passing the BAR for example, making partner, or joining a great firm, etc. - anything that upstages him is enough to garner contempt and cause him to reject you. It sounds unrealistic but, it's how their mind works. He will have married you as a way to accessorize his life. He valued what you could add to his image and standing. Love and commitment was how he branded it, but it was never real. If you "did" anything it would have been using the word "No." Enforcing your boundaries is a deal breaker for these types. Most hard core narcissists are hard to spot if they aren't also addicts of some kind. They get more egregious with age. Children get the dubious role of being an extension of the parent's ego. Occasionally, you can spot their contempt when someone else is in the spotlight or winning. Most are cool on the outside but raging on the inside. Where he lies on the narcissism scale is unknown, but this trait would explain why he makes ZERO effort to move the divorce along. It's his passive-aggressive way of letting you know you're worthless (to him.) Your needs don't matter. It's all about him. How to know which is the “real him”? There is no "real him." He's a well studied reflection of you (or who ever he's courting at the moment.) He let you open up to him, learned what matters to you and then mimicked those traits. He told you what you wanted to hear and produced only enough to keep stringing you along until it became too inconvenient for him. Chances are, before you discovered the affair and moved to divorce you were EXHAUSTED and essentially doing everything. You worked your fanny off in every arena and still didn't understand why things weren't coming together. As you exit the relationship his casual, even flippant disposition seems so out of place but, it was there and hidden the whole time. Edited March 6, 2019 by Turning point Link to post Share on other sites
Author chryssy83 Posted March 7, 2019 Author Share Posted March 7, 2019 Reading up on narcissism initially I thought wasn’t really applicable because he’s never mean, never really yells, etc. but then last night I found a description that fit better. He believes he’s a born leader. He’s better at his job than anyone who works there, even people who have done it for 30 years. Talks all the time about being a “closer” and how he can get people to do what he wants. He thinks he’s special and will be rich etc because he deserves it because of his innate ability. Just refers to it as faith. He can’t tell me what he will do to get the money he just knows he will because he has faith and he has always known he would be wealthy. The reason he is able to recruit people to work with him is because everyone wants to work with him...he’s the biggest selling point at all his interviews etc. He took a personality test to get his current job and I watched him answer the questions. I had sort of blocked it out because honestly his answers were really surprising to me and if I had read that test as a description of a person to date, I never would have been interested. And here I was married to him already. He told me he scored better on the test than anyone ever has. In the whole country for years and years. He’s more naturally suited to leadership than anyone else. So either he scored the highest in history on what appeared to be a test that favored narcissistic qualities or he wished he did and I don’t know that it matters either way. My therapist says he doesn’t participate in the divorce because he doesn’t think he has to. Right now he can literally do anything and everything he wants and also keep me trapped where I can’t do anything that might disappoint him. I am so excited for this court date, I want the judge to light a fire under him so I can be free. Link to post Share on other sites
Turning point Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 (edited) Reading up on narcissism initially I thought wasn’t really applicable because he’s never mean, never really yells, etc. but then last night I found a description that fit better. He believes he’s a born leader. He’s better at his job than anyone who works there, even people who have done it for 30 years. Talks all the time about being a “closer” and how he can get people to do what he wants. He thinks he’s special and will be rich etc because he deserves it because of his innate ability. Just refers to it as faith. He can’t tell me what he will do to get the money he just knows he will because he has faith and he has always known he would be wealthy. The reason he is able to recruit people to work with him is because everyone wants to work with him...he’s the biggest selling point at all his interviews etc. He took a personality test to get his current job and I watched him answer the questions. I had sort of blocked it out because honestly his answers were really surprising to me and if I had read that test as a description of a person to date, I never would have been interested. And here I was married to him already. He told me he scored better on the test than anyone ever has. In the whole country for years and years. He’s more naturally suited to leadership than anyone else. So either he scored the highest in history on what appeared to be a test that favored narcissistic qualities or he wished he did and I don’t know that it matters either way. My therapist says he doesn’t participate in the divorce because he doesn’t think he has to. Right now he can literally do anything and everything he wants and also keep me trapped where I can’t do anything that might disappoint him. I am so excited for this court date, I want the judge to light a fire under him so I can be free. If this is your first court appearance be prepared for a rather procedural and ineffective status review. Hopefully your attorney is someone very good at interjecting urgency from the outset so you can move it along. You may be right. Narcissism has a continuum or scale. We all have it to one degree or another or we couldn't be bold enough to function in the world. People who rate very high on narcissism often excel at careers like sales, politics, litigation, and leadership, including military. They lack the empathy that would often hinder many of us from being ruthlessly aggressive in our pursuits. On assessment tests these people usually garner results that describe them with words like "unyielding." Your ex sounds like the covert type, without incessant braggadocio. He screws you over without ever saying a word, letting the outcome or stonewalling alone testify to you're unworthiness. Edited March 7, 2019 by Turning point Link to post Share on other sites
Author chryssy83 Posted March 7, 2019 Author Share Posted March 7, 2019 This is the first court date that the parties have to be present for, it’s to make sure our basic needs are being met and the kids are being treated okay. See if we need a guardian ad litem (no), schedule trial and mediation, verify that the parties have exchanged basic financial info. By then he will have missed our discovery deadlines and I don’t have access to all the financial info because he won’t respond to discovery. That is what I expect the judge will be annoyed by. As a litigator, I know I have some narcissistic characteristics too. But I use my powers for good, not evil. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Turning point Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 (edited) Hopefully you'll get a good judge. Assume Nothing and cover all your bases, especially since you can't really predict WHY he's so uncooperative. You may see an entirely hostile side of him in the courtroom. If there's something you know you need from discovery then get a Motion to Compel before the window closes. My ex wouldn't comply and her lawyer is now arguing discovery is closed and we should have subpoenaed whatever it is we wanted. Ugh! I'm like 4 or 5 status conferences and 2 years in and my judge is asleep at the wheel, does nothing to move the case along. She hasn't reviewed a single document including a contempt motion on the parenting plan, contempt of the ATRO. It's an infuriating waste of time to keep showing up for a judge who's not at all prepared. Non-compliance with court orders doesn't seem to be an issue with this judge. Edited March 7, 2019 by Turning point Link to post Share on other sites
vla1120 Posted March 8, 2019 Share Posted March 8, 2019 I'm like 4 or 5 status conferences and 2 years in and my judge is asleep at the wheel, does nothing to move the case along. She hasn't reviewed a single document including a contempt motion on the parenting plan, contempt of the ATRO. It's an infuriating waste of time to keep showing up for a judge who's not at all prepared. Non-compliance with court orders doesn't seem to be an issue with this judge. That must be maddening! I should count myself lucky. My (1st) husband didn't hold anything up as long as I agreed to pay for the divorce and didn't try to fight him getting half of my pension (which is state law anyways.) I feel for you, and for Chryssy. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author chryssy83 Posted March 21, 2019 Author Share Posted March 21, 2019 Update: we went to court. Trial set in 2020, ordered to mediate within 90 days. He told the judge and my lawyer he would get discovery to us this week or next. He’s been calling my lawyer asking if he really has to respond to all the discovery. Yes, of course. He tried to talk to me at court but my attorney and one is my friends at the courthouse just stood in the way and all he managed to get me alone to say was “how are you?” I said “fine” and gave him a look like the conversation was over. After court he took off. He was super friendly to my attorney and the judge and the court staff. My lawyer said “I think he cares so much about what everyone thinks of him it’s just killing him you treat him with zero regard.” So husband has been asking me to meet in person. I told him in a text that he owes me a real apology and that I want him to admit that I didnt deserve any of this . He responded “you didn’t deserve it” and then said could we meet to actually talk. I said about what, he said one of our kids “mostly.” And I don’t have any interest in that so after some thought I told him I think a phone call would be sufficient and he tried a few more times to meet in person but ultimately agreed we can find time for a call. I don’t know what he really wants to discuss but I felt like he was being manipulative and I hate being around him. Isn’t it funny how someone you thought was so attractive and great can become so repulsive when you learn who they really are? I seriously don’t even see him the same way anymore.... 1 Link to post Share on other sites
GorillaTheater Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 I don’t have any interest in that so after some thought I told him I think a phone call would be sufficient and he tried a few more times to meet in person but ultimately agreed we can find time for a call. Odds are you're in a one-party state with respect to recordings. If so (and I'm guessing you already know), it may be a good idea to record that call. If the conversation goes seriously south, I'd insist on future communications be conducted via text and/or email. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author chryssy83 Posted March 21, 2019 Author Share Posted March 21, 2019 Odds are you're in a one-party state with respect to recordings. If so (and I'm guessing you already know), it may be a good idea to record that call. If the conversation goes seriously south, I'd insist on future communications be conducted via text and/or email. This is a one-party state. The thought has occurred to me that I might want to record the call....it feels really weird to think of him as an enemy that way, but I feel like he might make some useful admissions to try to manipulate me that could help with something down the road. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Mrs._December Posted March 22, 2019 Share Posted March 22, 2019 Isn’t it funny how someone you thought was so attractive and great can become so repulsive when you learn who they really are? I seriously don’t even see him the same way anymore.... It's amazing how quickly you can be repulsed by someone once you lose all respect for them. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Turning point Posted March 22, 2019 Share Posted March 22, 2019 I agree it sounds like his high priority is image management. I don't think I'd meet one-on-one in person with someone who has become such an unknown quantity. Perhaps you can even make it a conference call if you're not up to taking the call alone. I'm always skeptical of people who need seclusion or privacy to discuss an issue which is already a matter of public record. A recording could be helpful even if not for legal purposes. If he does go off the rails, a recorded example can short-cut past any skepticism you sense from lawyers, therapists, or others you are seeking support from. I've found that it can take quite a while or some serious incident before people finally believe what I've told them all along. 10 days to my own next hearing. I feel like the winter ice is not the only thing desperately awaiting a spring thaw. Link to post Share on other sites
Turning point Posted March 22, 2019 Share Posted March 22, 2019 It's amazing how quickly you can be repulsed by someone once you lose all respect for them. Imagine the possibilities if people had that same moment of enlightenment when learning the truth about cigarettes, drug and alcohol abuse, and all other manner of social ills. Link to post Share on other sites
Author chryssy83 Posted March 23, 2019 Author Share Posted March 23, 2019 Once I made it clear we weren’t meeting in person he dropped the whole thing. About our son my ass... Link to post Share on other sites
Blind-Sided Posted March 24, 2019 Share Posted March 24, 2019 ................ Isn’t it funny how someone you thought was so attractive and great can become so repulsive when you learn who they really are? I seriously don’t even see him the same way anymore.... Unfortunately, I'm starting to agree with that statement. I love my wife dearly, and was 100% "Blind Sided" when she hit me with her anger. But the harder I tried to work on resolving the problems, the crueler she got. At this point, I'm very sad, but I know she's not the person I married all those years ago. I'm still not better, but at least I'm going to bed at night, knowing (in my heart and soul) that I did my best to try to keep the family together. FYI... thanks for posting over on my thread. I just read all of yours, and I do feel bad for you. God bless. Link to post Share on other sites
stillafool Posted March 24, 2019 Share Posted March 24, 2019 ] So husband has been asking me to meet in person. I told him in a text that he owes me a real apology and that I want him to admit that I didnt deserve any of this . He responded “you didn’t deserve it” and then said could we meet to actually talk. I said about what, he said one of our kids “mostly.” And I don’t have any interest in that so after some thought I told him I think a phone call would be sufficient and he tried a few more times to meet in person but ultimately agreed we can find time for a call. I don’t know what he really wants to discuss but I felt like he was being manipulative and I hate being around him. You don't have any interest in discussing one of your kids? That seems to be why he wanted to meet and talk, nothing more. Isn’t it funny how someone you thought was so attractive and great can become so repulsive when you learn who they really are? I seriously don’t even see him the same way anymore.... Yep, and that is why people get divorced so you're on the right track. I felt the same way about my ex when we were divorcing. It's normal. Link to post Share on other sites
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