I deserved this, breaking my own heart

[DKT3]

Boredom comes from comfort, comfort is a good thing in relationships so nothing that needs to be "fixed".

 

The problem is you. You had a crush on a guy for years. He gave you some attention and you turned into a 16 year old girl who has no responsibility. Worse yet is you are keeping yourself stuck there.

 

You dont love this dude, you may love the creation in your mind of amazing man.

 

I disagree with the idea that women cheat to exit a relationship, that's ludicrous. All people cheat for the same reason, which you've already admitted to being. Selfish, cowardly and a sense of entitlement.

 

All of this my heart wont let me is also ludicrous. You're not some helpless victim or a slave to love. You simply enjoy the excitement, with full knowledge of the destruction it will cause. If you wanted to stop you would, you dont so you wont. Its really just that simple.

[stillafool]

 

I disagree with the idea that women cheat to exit a relationship, that's ludicrous. All people cheat for the same reason, which you've already admitted to being. Selfish, cowardly and a sense of entitlement.

 

Yes but I do notice that MW are more ready to leave their husband if the MM will have them but you don't see that so much with MM.

[BaileyB]

Boredom comes from comfort, comfort is a good thing in relationships so nothing that needs to be "fixed".

 

The problem is you. You had a crush on a guy for years. He gave you some attention and you turned into a 16 year old girl who has no responsibility.

 

You dont love this dude, you may love the creation in your mind of amazing man.

 

This is exactly what I was thinking. You are “in love” with the fantasy you have created about this man... when in reality, the real man is far from the fantasy.

 

The problem here is most definitely with you. What has made you unhappy in your marriage/life that made you vulnerable to this affair? The sad reality is that the people who pay the price are your husband and this man’s wife - both innocent people who did not decide to bring the cancer of infidelity into their marriages and their lives.

 

Have you considered individual counselling OP - to learn what is so wrong in you and with your marriage that you would risk your family for this other man?

 

I too am very curious about whether you plan to end it and tell your husband. IMHO, and as difficult as it is, he has a right to know that the life he is living is a lie.

[DKT3]

Yes but I do notice that MW are more ready to leave their husband if the MM will have them but you don't see that so much with MM.

 

This is statistically true. Ready to leave. Women leave marriages for affair partners twice as often as men but it's still less then 20%. Yes less then 20%. So this stereotype isnt accurate.

 

What happens more often is women get interested in another man then manufacture or magnify issues and problems with the husband and marriage. They often want to separate but rarely actually divorce.

 

Mm simply don't need to do these things to justify an affair in general.

[DKT3]

Bailey, unfortunately this isnt limited to MW or affair relationships. I believe women in general tend to idealize men in the beginning or ignore shortcomings. I just believe it's a must in affairs it's what bridges the gap from being interested to thinking they are in love.

[BaileyB]

Bailey, unfortunately this isnt limited to MW or affair relationships. I believe women in general tend to idealize men in the beginning or ignore shortcomings. I just believe it's a must in affairs it's what bridges the gap from being interested to thinking they are in love.

 

I don’t disagree. Men do it too - we read lots of post on here from disillusioned and sometimes very bitter men who have put a woman “on a pedestal” only to discover that they are very human...

 

From a very young age, girls are taught to fantasize about men and relationships. We read storybooks and watch movies that tell us that we should wait for our “Prince Charming” and we fantasize about our happily ever after... some of us more than others. I too believe that women are very prone to create a fantasy - habits that are cute and unseating at the beginning of a relationship become old and annoying as the relationship progresses. What seems like a wonderful adventure when you marry becomes daily drudgery sometimes when your husband is watching football and you are responsible for making dinner and caring for the children. A dark and dreamy married man comes along and he looks like a mirage - an escape from the pressure of life and the boredom of married life.

 

Not saying this is what has happened here... but there is an element to the post that makes me think it is. He is dark and dreamy and OP has always had a crush on him... her husband and the boring, repetitive nature of married life can’t possibly compete with the fantasy...

[Turning point]

Turningpoint, thank you for your brutally honest words. I should have told my H and made things work out, if not, I should have been brave and left him. But I was a coward. I chose the easy way out. And hurt him and myself in the process.

 

What do you truly know about the difference between love and being in love? What understanding do you have of your husband's capacity to love you?

 

Something may be missing, broken, or merely overlooked here, but I suggest you find out what it is before you continue to proceed with blowing up the lives of 3 innocent people and two families. Do the work, and then do what's right. That's the only way to be authentically free and open to real love.

[preraph]

Your MM isn't looking for a replacement. He just wanted a second woman. Loving his kid has little to do with why he won't divorce. He would have his kid half the time if he did divorce. He just wants to stay with his wife. That's who he married and made a life with.

 

You should do whatever you need to do about your own marriage, but it should not be decided upon because of your involvement with this other man. If you don't want to stay married, then certainly, don't. It's not unusual for the spark to disappear after a few years. Neither you nor your husband like things as well once that happens, I'm sure. Likely, he will always want sex regardless. So you just have to decide if you want to be married or single. But it's not going anywhere with this MM. He's married.

[Turning point]

Every affair requires a space in which to exist. It's because of this space and it's isolation from real world influences that such a fantasy can be created.

 

An affair is every bit escapism as any other altered state we would employ - which why they are often so well lubricated with alcohol.

[BaileyB]

Let’s say your MM does leave his wife to be with you...

 

You will spend the rest of your life wondering - will he go back to her? Will he find another woman for sex when you are diagnosed with an illness? Or just because he has some time this weekend with nothing to do...

 

A man who cheats on his wife and young child is not trustworthy. Full stop. You would be VERY unwise to think anything different.

[DKT3]

Not to mention that at some point she will have to deal with her own marriage and husband. At this point those things are not important but it doesn't just go away.

[elaine567]

Seems to me that downplaying the "love" in affairs is par for the course, but how accurate that portrayal is, I am not so certain.

Yes there a load of players, narcissists and other toxic and selfish types who don't know the meaning of love in affairs but it seems to me there are some who genuinely fall in love with their AP/MM/MW.

Easy to say, "But its not "real" love", especially for those who have been betrayed and would prefer their WW/WH did not love the AP, but what is "real" love and why is it seemingly impossible for there to be "real" love in an affair?

 

 

How much of falling in "love" is just fantasy anyway?

[DKT3]

Love is an action, being in an affair is not about loving anyone. What actions there support being in love? At best its caring for someone based on how it directly affects you. Not anything based on what's best for the person you are claiming to love.

 

As an example, I love my wife. If she was in a situation as such I would remove myself because I love her and if she got in this situation then it's clear I'm not what's best for her.

[whatcomesnext]

Seems to me that downplaying the "love" in affairs is par for the course, but how accurate that portrayal is, I am not so certain.

Yes there a load of players, narcissists and other toxic and selfish types who don't know the meaning of love in affairs but it seems to me there are some who genuinely fall in love with their AP/MM/MW.

Easy to say, "But its not "real" love", especially for those who have been betrayed and would prefer their WW/WH did not love the AP, but what is "real" love and why is it seemingly impossible for there to be "real" love in an affair?

 

 

How much of falling in "love" is just fantasy anyway?

 

Completely agree with Elaine. I’m not sure what makes any of those who have posted here qualified to be the ultimate arbiters of what love is and is not. When you first fall in love with someone (whether it’s an affair or not) there is usually a period of idolization and fantasy, where you want to be with the person all the time and see even their negative qualities as endearing. That changes over time. That love can deepen into something more or not. Or maybe you learn something about the person or they do something that makes you realize that they weren’t who you thought. But there are many different ways of loving someone.

 

It is also troublesome when someone says it can’t be love because the person is an escape and therefore you don’t have to deal with kids, smelly socks, etc. I am not arguing that affairs aren’t an escape, but the idea that you cannot be in love with the person because you don’t live with them in every day life is preposterous. How many of us were living under those circumstances with our Hs (or Ws) before we married them? Does it mean that I couldn’t have ever loved my H because at the time we got engaged we led relatively care free lives with no children, not yet living together, and no mortgage to pay? Nobody would say that. I think it’s better to be honest. I told my H that I loved MM because that is how I felt. We have never argued over whether I really did love him or not. And in a way it doesn’t matter - if I think I loved him then that is all that matters. That is the reality of how I felt and what my H and I had to work with to try to move forward.

[Zona]

It's not like we can just dismiss the collective knowledge and wisdow of women who have had affairs and then have had the benefit of time and perspective to view what happened in hindsight. And of course, there are countless experts that study adultery to come up with valid generalizations, and we know for a fact that few relationship that start out as affairs stand the test of time, very few.

 

I do think there are some affairs that are based on genuine love, but that is the exception rather than the rule.

 

In most cases, I believe that thinking your MM or your affair was special, and that your AP was your soulmate, is just another rationalization people use to justify their actions and ease their guilt.

 

And what is love? Is it a feeling? Feelings change. What about infatuation and limerence? I had limerence for my "first love" for years if not decades, but it was based on a mirage, on wishful thinking.

 

To me, mature love is caring and sacrificing yourself for others. It is forsaking other hot women I would love to get my hands on out of respect for my family and my wife.

 

 

BTW, my wife's AP, while handsome and charming, turned out to be a player and a loser. He lost his nursing license because he showed up at work high on drugs, and an alert supervisor ordered a drug test. He also had serious run-ins with the law. Whatever idealized picture my WW had of the guy sure came crashing down abruptly.

Edited February 7, 2019 by Zona

[whatcomesnext]

I don’t believe the generalizations and statistics that exist have much of anything to do with the question of love. I mean, even half of marriages end in divorce. You can love someone and not end up with them. You can love someone and later fall out of love with them. You can love someone more than they love you, or they could turn out to not love you at all. Or they could love you, but not enough or not more than they love themselves or their current life. And yes, sometimes you can fall in love with an illusion, though usually you had some basis to think the illusion of the person was real. I don’t think it’s helpful to argue about the meaning of love, which is quite personal to each individual.

Edited February 7, 2019 by whatcomesnext

[Zona]

Well, if you fall out of love with someone, divorce them first, and then pursue other opportunities.

But there is more to it than just that. It's not just the issue of the definition of love, it's also about having integrity, telling the truth, and doing the right thing. If you want to date someone else, tell your spouse right away so they can make an informed decision about what they want. An affair is soul destroying for most BS's to say the least, and if you have so little respect for your spouse that you think it is OK to betray them, then you should definitely divorce them A.S.A.P.

[whatcomesnext]

Many Ms survive affairs and sometimes even come out stronger. It’s not always so black and white as if x, then y. Divorce isn’t always the right answer. And having fallen in love with someone else isn’t alone determinative of whether the marriage can or should survive. Not everyone reacts to a given situation in the exact same way. Some will (and/or should) divorce, and others will not. I won’t get into the debate about telling your spouse the truth. It’s a non-issue for me as my H probably got more truth from me than he ever wanted. Recognizing that it was easier for me to do so since it was an EA with no physical aspect. But I was honest about the fact that I wanted it to be physical. Having said that, I do believe the ability to share my feelings and truth, regardless of what it is or how difficult it is, has helped to strengthen my M.

[DKT3]

Many Ms survive affairs and sometimes even come out stronger. It’s not always so black and white as if x, then y. Divorce isn’t always the right answer. And having fallen in love with someone else isn’t alone determinative of whether the marriage can or should survive. Not everyone reacts to a given situation in the exact same way. Some will (and/or should) divorce, and others will not. I won’t get into the debate about telling your spouse the truth. It’s a non-issue for me as my H probably got more truth from me than he ever wanted. Recognizing that it was easier for me to do so since it was an EA with no physical aspect. But I was honest about the fact that I wanted it to be physical. Having said that, I do believe the ability to share my feelings and truth, regardless of what it is or how difficult it is, has helped to strengthen my M.

 

Many stay married very few survivor and rare are they better.

 

In you case, were I your husband there is absolutely no way I could be happy in a marriage were you are still so fond of your affair.

 

And again, people in affairs love themselves and really just use the spouses and affair partner

[BaileyB]

Many Ms survive affairs and sometimes even come out stronger.

 

There are easier and better ways to strengthen a marriage than to make the decision to do something that emotionally destroys your spouse, only to then spend years trying to rebuild what was never really all that broken...

[whatcomesnext]

There are easier and better ways to strengthen a marriage than to make the decision to do something that emotionally destroys your spouse, only to then spend years trying to rebuild what was never really all that broken...

 

Not sure how your comment is relevant. I was responding to the person who said everyone who has an affair should immediately get divorced. Nobody suggested an affair as a solution that should be proactively sought to strengthen a M. It happens, however, that if it does occur the M can be strengthened. Further those posting on this board (and the OP on this thread) have generally already been involved in an affair, so unless they can turn back time are in need of advice on how to handle their current reality. I’ve been on these boards long enough to know the various posters’ rigid mindsets. That’s fine. I disagree with these rigid views, and don’t need to convince anyone else to understand my viewpoints.

[whatcomesnext]

You are welcome to call me rigid for not wanting to do something hurtful to my significant other, only then to say that it was for the better good of his relationship.

 

But, you are correct, some relationships do survive infidelity and they may get stronger. Not without a lot of pain, work, and grace.

 

Again, I would appreciate it if you would not attribute statements to me that I did not make. I never said the EA was for his better good. What I did say was that my being completely honest with him about what happened and how I felt was for the better good and strengthened our R. Honestly tends to be what is recommended by most posters who have been BS, but I’ve found that it doesn’t seem to matter what you do, if you fell in love with someone else you are a villain and that is that. Black and white, no grey. That is not how I view life.

[Songbird4]

He’s giving you attention when it serves him. I doubt he has any plans or making things serious between the both of you therefore your heart will continue to get dragged in the mud.

 

You’ve acknowledged your wrong doings and that’s an important step. He loves his wife- definitely doesn’t respect her (hence cheating on her) but his marriage will not end by him doing anything about it.

 

Free yourself of this. Focus on an activity you’ve always wanted to do or a new place you’ve always wanted to see. If you’re bored, which you stated, then take this time to dive into yourself and find out WHY you are wanting a void filled by this MM.

[somanymistakes]

"Take it out" on the relationship, no.

 

Did huge fights affect him? Sure. Usually he'd clam up if she'd done something awful, because he didn't want to worry me or risk me giving her a piece of my mind. So if bad things were happening, he'd get much more quiet. He's conflict-avoidant, that's what created the whole messy situation in the first place.

 

He and I don't have fights so there's no direct comparison.

[Zona]

Honestly tends to be what is recommended by most posters who have been BS, but I’ve found that it doesn’t seem to matter what you do, if you fell in love with someone else you are a villain and that is that. Black and white, no grey. That is not how I view life.

 

I would say honesty is the best policy, however I think that if you want to reconcile there are some exceptions, and this is coming from a BH. Never tell your husband that your AP was a better lover or had a bigger d..k (I know this doesn't apply to you personally). Also I wouldn't recommend dwelling on the fact that you are constantly pining and generally carrying the torch for AP.

 

 

As for being a villain because you fell in love? That's not what makes you a villain. Having such poor personal boundaries that you allowed yourself to get that close to someone outside your marriage who could be a relationship partner is the real problem. If you want to keep your options open to new relationships, DON'T GET MARRIED Or at least be honest about it to the person you marry so they understand what they are getting into.

 

Anyways back to the OP, keep reading these and other similar forums. You will see so many similar stories to your own, and how things end up. Be realistic about where this is heading. Besides, "winning" a narcissist is no prize I can tell you. My WW's brother is a raging Narc and he has put his wife through hell. He is living with his AP while just throwing enough scraps to keep her from divorcing him. Downright cruel, and he has no conscience or guilt about it.

Edited February 8, 2019 by Zona