Divorced now; was I a cheater and an adulter?

[Knightman]

Please give me your opinion- am I a cheater and adulter?

 

During 2015-2017 my wife of 25 years and I had serious marital problems. She had become emotionally detached from me and as a result neglected me in various ways (would not spend time with me, stayed in different corners of the house, slept in separate rooms etc.). We had sex 2 times in 2 years. We have 2 teenage children and she would put 100% focus on them, her friends, our neighbors, her family, anyone and everyone else but me. She would turn down date nights, vacations, anything with just the two of us. She scheduled elective surgery requiring her to recover on our 25th wedding anniversary. We never celebrated it. I won't get into why but we were both to blame and both responsible for our marriage reaching this point. During this time we went to counceling on and off for 18 months both individually and couples. I shared with her over and over again that I loved her and needed her to re-engage in our marriage but she continued her neglectful behavior and told me she was working on "how she was feeling" but acknowledged she was detached. That went on for more than 2 years.

Besides the emotional toll on us, not having sex was extremely difficult. I'm a sexual person and like sex often so 2x in 2 years was hard to endure. In September of 17 my wife and I had had enough. We agreed to separate. At the time we discussed specific details about how it would work. We'd divide our assets 50-50, divide time with the kids 50-50, move to separate homes keep doing things together with the kids and as she put it "see if maybe we could come together at some point in the future".

 

After that discussion I decided to go stay with a relative in another state for awhile. We told the kids I was just visiting. During the first 4 weeks I reflected on all of our problems and saw a councilor. I called my wife and told her I wanted her to come visit so we could try to work things out. She refused and said "you've only been gone 4 weeks, that's not enough time". I begged her to come but she said she had just started a new job and needed to work. We had plenty of money. I told her forget the job, nothing else matters more than us. We'll deal with the money and job. She refused to come. At that point I was upset and told her I was tired of being alone in our marriage. I said I was done and if she didn't come I would see other people. She said "if that's what you want to do go ahead". Now, we had had many fights with many threats in our time together, so I honestly don't know if we were taking each other seriously. I just felt like she thought she could put me on hold forever and that I should just wait around to see if she ever re-engages in the marriage.

 

Well, next day a woman I had met texted me for a beer. One thing led to another and we had dinner together, and then a few more evenings... she was really attractive, she LISTENED TO ME, we had a lot in common, we had fun, she told me I was attractive, she was affectionate and gave me all the attention my wife had been withholding- holding my hand, rubbing my knee, massaging my neck while I was driving. Just her touch was amazing and I was so ready for it. We kissed but that was it.

 

On Oct 31 I went back home to my wife and kids to spend Halloween with my son and then Thanksgiving. During this time it was clear things had not changed with my wife - she was still detached, I slept in a seperate room. My wife and I talked some more about our relationship and concluded that I would find a place to move into after the holidays and that we would not tell the kids or our families about the separation until after the holidays. I started to look for an apartment or house to rent and we agreed I would investigate options for getting the legal separation done.

 

All this time, the woman is texting and calling me which I kept a secret from my wife.

 

I then went back to California for more dates with the new woman, and then next thing you know we are back at her place having the most mind-blowing sex I have EVER had. Sexual compatiblity? Check.

 

I then spent December renting a place to live, bouncing around to see the new woman and spending Christmas with my kids... effectively living a double-life.

 

The fog had set in. I was in love and felt fullfilled. And my separating wife had no clue.

 

After the holidays, on Jan 3 we told the kids and our families about the separation and I moved into my new house the same day. I then spent the next several months seeing my kids part time at my new place, and spending time with my new "girlfriend". During this time my wife and I would text each other about logistics relating to the kids, selling our home, and the separation. At one point my wife texted me saying " I know you'll find someone else quickly". I said "you'd be okay with that?" and she said "Yes, I just want you to be happy". I still didn't tell her about my new GF because I didn't think it would be wise to do so until the legal separation was done.

 

Well, in February, my wife found out about my GF and ALL HELL BROKE LOOSE! She said screw the legal separation I want a divorce! She decided I had "freaked out" and was no longer a stable father and demanded 66% custody with the kids vs my 33%. Fast forward and we are now divorced, living in our new homes, and I see my kids 10 days a month.

 

But the kicker is my ex-wife says I CHEATED and lost my integrity because I started something with the new woman while we were married. She shames me at every opportunity, her family and some of our mutual friends have disowned me. My kids have picked-up on this and also now feel I'm the cause of the divorce so my relationships with them are at an all time low. My wife has made CHEATING the reason we divorced but in reality it was all the things that happened during the many years leading up to our separation that caused it. My wife has put all the blame on my cheating and used it to absolve herself of any responsibility for our marriage failing.

 

I'm wracked with guilt! I've taken her comments to heart and the more I think about them the more I worry - am I guilty of CHEATING and ADULTRY?

 

I have always prided myself on my integrity and being a good person. But thinking about it from her point of view I can understand why she thinks I cheated, and I feel so so terrible for the pain I must have and still am causing her. On top of that, I'm a Christian and ADULTRY is clearly a serious offense in the eyes of God, and the bible says those who commit ADULTRY will not inherit the kindom Heaven. I NEVER slept with my wife after I met my new GF. In my mind I felt like it was over with my wife and that moving on with the new GF was justified. Now I feel I have committed some terrible sins.

 

But the FOG is real. A year+ later the fog has lifted and I can see I wasn't thinking as clearly as I thought I was.

 

DID I COMMIT ADULTRY and DID I CHEAT?

 

Please help.

[S2B]

No.

 

She abandoned the marriage long before you left.

 

She had absolutely no intention on being a good wife.

 

I rarely respond this way to someone married - but you gave her every reason to act married and she refused.

 

Go back to court and demand at least 50% time with your kids.

 

She’s unkind as a wife. She gave you permissionthem accused you of what she gave permission for. She’s a kook!

 

No sense in trying to make sense of a kook. They do that to eliminate their own guilt. She was probably cheating all along.

[elaine567]

Yes.

You were still married when you started the fling with the other woman and you deliberately hid her from your wife, so yes on both counts.

 

Yes there are mitigating circumstances but the "permission" you sought does not hold any water as it was in the middle of a no doubt heated discussion after YOU left the marital home, and the very next day after getting this "permission" you find a another woman...

Really??? What a coincidence...

 

Her saying "if that's what you want to do go ahead" was not "permission", it was a test. You were supposed to go, "I would never do that, I love you" and then come home on the first flight, not hook up with someone else...

 

From I guess "a break" designed to sort out your marriage on her part, it became a war due to how you handled it.

Breaks are never a good idea if the intention is for it to be temporary, so she made a BIG mistake there...

[stillafool]

Yes technically you are a cheater and adulterer. But your wife seemed perfectly happy to separate and have you leave. It looked like your marriage was going to fail anyway. Your wife didn't act like she wanted you and is using your gf as an excuse to get more custody than you. Personally, I don't know why you care what she thinks but if you are heavily into your Christian life why are you having sex without being married?

[d0nnivain]

Yes but . . .

 

Your marriage has been over in all but name so it's not that horrible. Just get the divorce & move along.

[elaine567]

Just get the divorce & move along.

 

He is already divorced.

[d0nnivain]

You did not commit a terrible sin & she does hold blame for the demise of your marriage. It was over long before you cheated. Cut yourself some slack.

[salparadise]

She said "if that's what you want to do go ahead". [...] she thought she could put me on hold forever and that I should just wait around to see if she ever re-engages in the marriage.

 

You tried and tried over a period of two years or more. She was checked out and refused to reengage. She pushed you into leaving home, and told you to go ahead if that's what you want. She could not have made it any clearer that the marriage was over and done. How can anyone expect a man to keep hanging on to hope and being a loyal, devoted husband while being constantly rejected? How can anyone expect a man who is feeling so dejected, disrespected and abandoned over such an extended period of time not to be susceptible to a beautiful woman who offers all the respect, affection, adoration and affirmation that he had been begging his detached wife to show, only to be rebuffed time and time again?

 

Knightman, this marriage was over. She wasn't working on it, not even pretending. It's not like you had a bad month, this was a long time over. The only thing left was to divide the assets and get a formal custody agreement.

 

The moral absolutists will shame you for not putting their absolutist beliefs before your humanity and disposing of the technicalities first, but that doesn't take human factors into consideration whatsoever. All of this shame and guilt you are feeling is because you also subscribed to absolutist beliefs prior to experiencing the complexities of being a living, breathing human with normal human needs. Now you have what is known as cognitive dissonance. The solution is to adjust your thinking and acknowledge that this marriage was over long before you met the new girlfriend, and that your ex-wife does not hold the moral high ground simply because there was no formal decree. You did your best and hung in there longer than most people would. When you accept this reality and let go of the rigid, unrealistic notions you will be able to begin healing. You're a good person. The fact that your ex-wife wanted to keep you on hold indefinitely while giving nothing doesn't not change that.

[Simple Logic]

You didn’t end the marriage under the schedule and terms she dictated. Oh well, sorry about her failed plans.

[ExpatInItaly]

Yes but . . .

 

Your marriage has been over in all but name so it's not that horrible. Just get the divorce & move along.

 

I agree.

 

OP, without knowing anything about your marriage, do you wonder if she herself had ever been unfaithful during those two years when you two were living separate lives under the same roof? Could there be some projection and deflection going on with her screaming about cheating?

[S2B]

She really seems cruel.

 

Mind games is what she does. She didn’t want to be blamed for the marriage ending - so she figured out a way to blame you.

 

Be glad it’s over! She is a real manipulator who punished people she says she loves.

 

 

Love doesn’t look like that.

[Mrs._December]

The fog had set in. I was in love and felt fullfilled. And my separating wife had no clue.

Seriously - stop with the nonsense about 'fog.' That is SUCH a cliche. You knew exactly what you were doing every step of the way, so just own it.

 

I'm wracked with guilt! I've taken her comments to heart and the more I think about them the more I worry - am I guilty of CHEATING and ADULTRY?

You were separated when you started with this woman. But since you were constantly clinging to your wife like grim death begging her to love you - when she was done with you YEARS ago - she probably sees it differently. That's too bad for HER, not you.

 

Some people feel that even if the divorce papers are filed and you're living apart, it's still 'adultery' just because a judge hasn't officially pounded his gavel yet and stamped your divorce paper with an 'approved' stamp. That has nothing to do with God and any commandments - that's all LEGAL red tape at that point, so I'll never understand that nonsense thinking that it's 'adultery.'

[elaine567]

Some people feel that even if the divorce papers are filed and you're living apart, it's still 'adultery' just because a judge hasn't officially pounded his gavel yet and stamped your divorce paper with an 'approved' stamp. That has nothing to do with God and any commandments - that's all LEGAL red tape at that point, so I'll never understand that nonsense thinking that it's 'adultery.'

 

{Adultery Definition: Voluntary sexual intercourse between a married person and another person who is not their married spouse.}

 

“Marriage is honorable among all, and the bed undefiled; but fornicators and adulterers God will judge.” Hebrews 13:4. It is written of God that “He has made everything beautiful in its time,” (Ecclesiastes 3:11) and the time He has ordained for sexual intimacy is for a man and a woman within the marriage relationship. To have this relationship before marriage (fornication) or with another partner after marriage (adultery) is in direct disobedience to the will of God. Even if your spouse would consent to an adulterous encounter, this does not make it acceptable in God’s eye.

For those who are Christian and wish to follow the rules, it all seems pretty clear.

[Knightman]

I agree.

 

OP, without knowing anything about your marriage, do you wonder if she herself had ever been unfaithful during those two years when you two were living separate lives under the same roof? Could there be some projection and deflection going on with her screaming about cheating?

 

 

S2B suggested this might be the case as well. The truth is I'm quite confident she had never been unfaithful. That thought never even crossed my mind until I was in counciling trying to seek answers to what was going on. After explaining the situation to 3 different councilors all told me the same thing - they said she was behaving as if she was having an affair of some sort. All three of them asked me if I thought she might be involved with someone else. My answer was always the same. No way. She is a Christian, the daughter of Baptist preacher, part of a very religious family that values morality and doing what is right.

 

After having 3 different councilors ask me that question, I started to wonder. So I began keeping an eye on her phone, her spending habbits, how she spent her time, etc. I never saw anything that would make me think she was with anyone else.

 

No, she was just flat out unhappy with me and avoided 1 on 1 time with me as much as possible.

[elaine567]

No, she was just flat out unhappy with me and avoided 1 on 1 time with me as much as possible.

If there is no cheating here, do you think pressure for sex from you may have sent her scurrying away to avoid having one on one time with you...

[Knightman]

Yes.

 

Yes there are mitigating circumstances but the "permission" you sought does not hold any water as it was in the middle of a no doubt heated discussion after YOU left the marital home, and the very next day after getting this "permission" you find a another woman...

Really??? What a coincidence...

 

Her saying "if that's what you want to do go ahead" was not "permission", it was a test. You were supposed to go, "I would never do that, I love you" and then come home on the first flight, not hook up with someone else...

 

You make it sound is if "leaving the marital home" was my idea. It was a mutual decision that occurred after we discussed details like how we'd divide assets, share custody etc. She wanted me out of the house- we were both miserable and it was manifesting itself in front of our kids.

 

I had already recently become acquainted with the woman before this "heated discussion" with my wife. The same day of the discussion (prior to talking to my wife) I met with a councilor who told me I had tried long enough to work things out and to accept that she may never get over her detached state. He told me "Pick a date, if she doesn't come around and show she's working on the marriage, move on". He was the 3rd councilor to tell me this, and the 3rd to tell me that in their experience they don't see marriages like ours recover.

 

Even so I called my wife that day and begged her to come to CA. She refused and I told her I wanted to come home too but she said I hadn't been gone long enough! She wanted me to stay away! I think perhaps she thought I needed to suffer in order to conform to what she wanted me to be or something? I don't know. Getting on a plane and going home certainly wasn't what she wanted I know that.

 

Tests are probably never a good idea. I was at the end of my rope. I wasn't ready for a test. I was done. Maybe my call to her that day was also a test? It was my last ditch effort.

 

Ultimatums are never a good idea either. I said come or else - if you care about our marriage come, otherwise I'm seeing other people. She may have thought I was bluffing. She may have though I'd never call her bluff. I was hurting and emotionally exhausted from trying to understand *her* feelings and not seeing anything from her in return.

 

If my wife had called me and said "I'm done. I need you here now so we can work through this. Nothing is more important than our relationship, even your job. We'll figure out the money thing, just come!" I would have been there. She was ambivalent to what I was feeling or going through, and that made it very easy for me to not care about here feelings when the opportunity with the other woman arose.

Edited February 14, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Fix quote

[Knightman]

If there is no cheating here, do you think pressure for sex from you may have sent her scurrying away to avoid having one on one time with you...

 

At times she felt pressure from me to have sex... and she would rebuff my advances. I wasn't trying to have sex with her when I would suggest taking a vacation together, or ask her just to watch TV with me, or go on a date night, or not schedule her surgery so close to our 25yr anniversary, or go trick or treating with our son and I - I just wanted time with her, companionship and she didn't engage to support that. She felt I was too needy, wasn't feeling attracted to me or sexual towards me. I get it. Women can reach a point where all the harsh words and screw-ups of the past do not make them feel like having sex. I was willing to put the sex aside and just work on things and she didn't engage and had me on an indefinate timeframe for re-engaging.

[Knightman]

Yes technically you are a cheater and adulterer. But your wife seemed perfectly happy to separate and have you leave. It looked like your marriage was going to fail anyway. Your wife didn't act like she wanted you and is using your gf as an excuse to get more custody than you. Personally, I don't know why you care what she thinks but if you are heavily into your Christian life why are you having sex without being married?

 

I care because when my wife and I discussed separating we committed to remain friends and co-parent our children together. We said we'd still do things as a family for the sake of our children.

 

Now, she has used my "cheating" to say she is a superior person and parent, and that I am an inferior person and parent, a cheater and a liar.

 

She has alienated our children from me, her family (my in-laws/family for 25 years) won't engage with me. I'm no longer their uncle, nephew, brother-in-law. Our joint friends also don't engage with me, they see me as the cheater.

 

I have lost or severely damaged a good portion of my personal relationships, and these people will never know the entire story.

[DKT3]

Ignore that stuff, personal agendas serve very little purpose here.

 

Bottom line is that marriage is done, whatever her opinion of the events at this point is her issues.

 

Technically you cheated, at this point does that truly matter. I suspect your ex is upset that you moved on so quickly and did pine for her. I'm sure it was a blow to her ego that she was so easily replaced.

 

Enjoy your new relationship, revisit the custody thing because even if you cheated the entire 25 years that usually has no impact on custody. If she is in the family home, judges tend to place the children there for the majority of time. Let them adjust then go back to court.

[elaine567]

Women can reach a point where all the harsh words and screw-ups of the past do not make them feel like having sex.

 

 

True.

Built up resentment IS a passion killer.

 

Also middle aged women can lose the "caretaking" part of their make up too. They get fed up of the apparent perpetual caring for everyone that women are expected to do, and that caring can include taking care of their partners sexual needs.

They go "Hang on minute I don't need this, this is not good for me, I dont need to do this any more."

Some think it may be due to lowered oestrogen levels, oestrogen being some sort of a "caring" hormone but it may just be middle age.

[DKT3]

Oh and the family and friends know, they have seen her behavior over the years. I wouldn't worry about that either, her family is her family and will side with her in the end no matter how horrible she was.

[Knightman]

You tried and tried over a period of two years or more. She was checked out and refused to reengage. She pushed you into leaving home, and told you to go ahead if that's what you want. She could not have made it any clearer that the marriage was over and done. How can anyone expect a man to keep hanging on to hope and being a loyal, devoted husband while being constantly rejected? How can anyone expect a man who is feeling so dejected, disrespected and abandoned over such an extended period of time not to be susceptible to a beautiful woman who offers all the respect, affection, adoration and affirmation that he had been begging his detached wife to show, only to be rebuffed time and time again?

 

Knightman, this marriage was over. She wasn't working on it, not even pretending. It's not like you had a bad month, this was a long time over. The only thing left was to divide the assets and get a formal custody agreement.

 

The moral absolutists will shame you for not putting their absolutist beliefs before your humanity and disposing of the technicalities first, but that doesn't take human factors into consideration whatsoever. All of this shame and guilt you are feeling is because you also subscribed to absolutist beliefs prior to experiencing the complexities of being a living, breathing human with normal human needs. Now you have what is known as cognitive dissonance. The solution is to adjust your thinking and acknowledge that this marriage was over long before you met the new girlfriend, and that your ex-wife does not hold the moral high ground simply because there was no formal decree. You did your best and hung in there longer than most people would. When you accept this reality and let go of the rigid, unrealistic notions you will be able to begin healing. You're a good person. The fact that your ex-wife wanted to keep you on hold indefinitely while giving nothing doesn't not change that.

 

I am so thankful for this forum and every single person who has taken the time to respond. I wrote way too long of an opening message and honestly thought no one would bother to read it.

 

salparadise, I'm particularity grateful for your response. I wonder if perhaps you're a professional psychologist of some sort. You seem to understand the situation pretty well, and offered a solution. I remember studying cognative dissonance in college, and I read the article you sent, and I'll continue to explore this solution more as a way to deal with things.

 

Having said all that, I'm divorced and there are two reasons I care about what's happened enough to have posted this to begin with.

 

1) As a Christian. I believe I have sinned. I knew better and I still did it. My dream and desires were for a loving relationship with my wife and family. I was in it for life. I knew I was losing my wife, and after a long enough period of time trying to fight, I was simply worn down and gave up. When my wife found out about the other woman, she said "you're a weak man". She was right. I gave in to another woman who made me feel loved, and made me feel like a desirable man and she made me feel good sexually. As far as my faith is concerned, I no longer have assurance of going to heaven, and I face an uncertain future and judgement because of my actions. As bad as it sounds, I feel my ex-wife also bares responsibility for driving me to the point of weakness and failure. She should pay a penalty too, but of course I would never want that for her. That is between her and God.

 

2) I need positive closure on my failed marriage. I need to know it wasn't all my fault. I need my ex-wife to forgive me. I need her to take responsibility for her part in our failed marriage. And I need her to respect me as a man, as a parent for our children, and someone worthy of being friends with, and to support my relationships with the people I care about not destroy them. I don't want to get back together with her, because I don't want to live "her way" anymore. I do still care about her and want the best for her, and would like to have a positive relationship with her, but I can't live with the judgement she has put on me.

[DKT3]

What if she never does? Then what? You punish yourself to the end?

 

Your wife isnt going to forgive you, you gave her the ammo to make you the bad guy along with bruising her ego. You know the whole I don't want you, but i want you to want me thing.

 

On both your points, make it right spiritual and seek your forgiveness there. Second point, your wife would have eventually got to this point with you being involved with another woman even after the divorce was final.

[Knightman]

True.

Built up resentment IS a passion killer.

 

Also middle aged women can lose the "caretaking" part of their make up too. They get fed up of the apparent perpetual caring for everyone that women are expected to do, and that caring can include taking care of their partners sexual needs.

They go "Hang on minute I don't need this, this is not good for me, I dont need to do this any more."

Some think it may be due to lowered oestrogen levels, oestrogen being some sort of a "caring" hormone but it may just be middle age.

 

Thank you. I considered that. She was 49 at the time of our split. But then I realized she was so very caring for our children, her family, friends who were going through hard times etc. She was the first to bring flowers, or dinners to people having a tough time. She had the caring hormone flowing. Just not for me. I was to care for myself.

[elaine567]

2) I need positive closure on my failed marriage. I need to know it wasn't all my fault. I need my ex-wife to forgive me. I need her to take responsibility for her part in our failed marriage. And I need her to respect me as a man, as a parent for our children, and someone worthy of being friends with, and to support my relationships with the people I care about not destroy them. I don't want to get back together with her, because I don't want to live "her way" anymore. I do still care about her and want the best for her, and would like to have a positive relationship with her, but I can't live with the judgement she has put on me.

 

 

I don't know your wife maybe she has a great capacity for forgiveness, but for many women you will have lost any respect or chance of forgiveness the minute you decided to sneak around behind her back with another woman.

Maybe, just maybe, had you come clean straight away, she may have accepted it, but you chose to lie to her instead.

You may not like her "judgement", but it is no longer up to you, it is her call.

It is not as if you can deny it either to your friends and family. Will they be forgiving even if your wife softens?

I am not sure where your head was at. As a Christian and a father, did it never cross your mind that the consequences of your actions could be dire?