Divorced now; was I a cheater and an adulter?

[Knightman]

I don't know your wife maybe she has a great capacity for forgiveness, but for many women you will have lost any respect or chance of forgiveness the minute you decided to sneak around behind her back with another woman.

Maybe, just maybe, had you come clean straight away, she may have accepted it, but you chose to lie to her instead.

You may not like her "judgement", but it is no longer up to you, it is her call.

It is not as if you can deny it either to your friends and family. Will they be forgiving even if your wife softens?

I am not sure where your head was at. As a Christian and a father, did it never cross your mind that the consequences of your actions could be dire?

 

I was heartbroken about my marriage failing. At the time, I rationalized my actions with the other woman this way. "God cannot possibly expect me to live this way. I'm miserable. My wife is miserable. She is detatched and does not care about my needs. She's been this way a long time and despite my attempts for years to bring her "back" she isn't reconnecting and she's not doing anything to make things better. Does God really expect me to live this way for ever? Does he expect me to be celebate and unhappy in my own marriage? We are separating anyway and I'm moving out anyway, so I'm going to see what happens with this new woman".

 

As far as my kids, I was already facing the prospect of telling them their mom and I were separating. I didn't see how the relationship with the new woman would make that any different.

 

That's basically it. Based on that I allowed things to progress with the new woman. And it progressed from there very rapidly. And once the line was crossed, it was too done. The relationship with the new woman felt much better than anything I had experienced with my wife.

 

But children and 25 years of marriage are a funny thing. Had I realized the impact our separation and divorce would have on our kids I would not have done what I did. They are the biggest reason for my guilt and remorse. If it weren't for the kids, I would not feel as bad for my wife. At times I wonder if I should have just sucked it up and kept living miserable for their sake. And I wonder if I should have lived miserable for Gods sake too. I just wasn't strong enough to do it.

[elaine567]

But children and 25 years of marriage are a funny thing. Had I realized the impact our separation and divorce would have on our kids I would not have done what I did. They are the biggest reason for my guilt and remorse. If it weren't for the kids, I would not feel as bad for my wife. At times I wonder if I should have just sucked it up and kept living miserable for their sake. And I wonder if I should have lived miserable for Gods sake too. I just wasn't strong enough to do it.

 

 

But separating leading to divorce was quite feasible and you were half way there anyway, with your wife being amenable to the split.

It is the cheating and lying about it, that landed you in deep trouble with your kids, friends and family.

[oldtruck]

You put the cart before the horse. Your marriage was dead. Your wife

refused to work to fix it. You were justified to seek a divorce.

 

The problem is you were just separated. Separated is not divorced.

 

Now after the facts I will add one more. Being separated and seeing

another women means your wife could not sue you for divorce on the

grounds of infidelity.

 

Legally your are safe. Morally you were wrong for you were not divorced.

 

Any way I hope things are working out for you and this new woman.

[S2B]

S2B suggested this might be the case as well. The truth is I'm quite confident she had never been unfaithful. That thought never even crossed my mind until I was in counciling trying to seek answers to what was going on. After explaining the situation to 3 different councilors all told me the same thing - they said she was behaving as if she was having an affair of some sort. All three of them asked me if I thought she might be involved with someone else. My answer was always the same. No way. She is a Christian, the daughter of Baptist preacher, part of a very religious family that values morality and doing what is right.

 

After having 3 different councilors ask me that question, I started to wonder. So I began keeping an eye on her phone, her spending habbits, how she spent her time, etc. I never saw anything that would make me think she was with anyone else.

 

No, she was just flat out unhappy with me and avoided 1 on 1 time with me as much as possible.

 

So she was married yet she was avoiding the role she signed up for? She avoided the thing she said she would forever be committed to?

 

Look, when two people marry... they make a vow to spend time together, to make decisions together and to have sex with each other forever... and she didn’t keep her vows.

 

What you did was to acknowledge that she sucked as a wife... she didn’t like that - and wants to blame anyone but herself!

 

And that’s why it’s easy for her to blame you.

 

She’s never going to blame herself.

[Rayce]

1) As a Christian. I believe I have sinned. I knew better and I still did it. My dream and desires were for a loving relationship with my wife and family. I was in it for life. I knew I was losing my wife, and after a long enough period of time trying to fight, I was simply worn down and gave up. When my wife found out about the other woman, she said "you're a weak man". She was right. I gave in to another woman who made me feel loved, and made me feel like a desirable man and she made me feel good sexually. As far as my faith is concerned, I no longer have assurance of going to heaven, and I face an uncertain future and judgement because of my actions.

 

As a sinner and a Christian myself... Remember through Christ loving sacrifice we are forgiven. I wish you peace.

[gradh]

I'm not sure you'll ever get your ex-wife to forgive you. I think with time she might settle down and he anger might recede a bit. Until then, give her space and try to be as good a co-parent as you can be.

 

As far as sinning in the eyes of God, I'm not super religious but one of the best things about most Christian religions is the capacity for forgiveness. You clearly feel remorse for what you have done. I was always taught God forgives if you are truly sorry for what you did and I think it's time for you to forgive yourself because you can rest assured He's forgiven you.

[Jamess1]

You never had a wife, wasted 2 years of your life because you just didn't get it. She was cheating for 2 years on you (probably more..). She gaslight you to make you feel guilty so she could demand and get more from you after the divorce (easy to manipulate a man with a 'Mr Nice Guy Syndrome')...now you have less visitation with your kids. A woman who wants to be with u doesn't confuse you, you can be a drunkard, addict, cheat etc but you can always tell she wants to be with you . .

 

She was begging for a divorce for 2 years while having an affair on you..I don't think she ever loved you. Her ex-boy friends probably had way more seks and affection than u did..when women marry they marry 'beta' men, a man who is reliable, providing, caring, loyal, provides security and comfort but usually a man she doesn't find attractive, doesn't respect..if men are not careful they will end up in terrible relationships than single men, all in the stupid name of 'my wife', 'my marriage'

 

women fuuck men they love, husband,ex, affair partner etc if she can't fuuck u it's over - 2 years and u didn't get the msg --One week is enough for me divorce ...never value a relationship more than a woman, the results turn out very pathetic...and DNA test your kid 'Mr Nice Guy' I doubt they are yours.

[Knightman]

Jamess1, I get you are trying to help me (thanks) but really.

She wasn’t cheating. And my kids are so blatantly my own it’s not funny. I don’t need a DNA test to tell me that anyone can just look at them and see it.

 

I’m quite familiar with the Alpha-male beta Mr nice guy thing. Doesn’t apply here.

 

It’s not about why the relationship ended, it’s about how. We were “in the process” of separating with plans to sell the house, move, divide our assets and share custody. I left the home (in agreement with my wife) to give (and take) space until we could work through all that. 4-5 weeks later I met someone else and a short time after that after going home and confirming that 1) my wife was still detached and 2) she still wanted the separation, I became intimate with the OW before any seperation papers were signed.

 

That is the issue. I thought we were done pending filing papers My wife felt there was an ever so small chance we would still come back together after the separation.

 

I do not feel I cheated because we were already done and in the process of splitting and I never had marital relations with my wife again after I was with the OW (or many months before actually) I need to help my ex-wife understand the relationship didn’t end because I cheated, it was already over before I met OW and she played her part in everything until that point. I do feel I technically committed adultery. Somehow I need to make that right with God.

[elaine567]

I do not feel I cheated because we were already done and in the process of splitting and I never had marital relations with my wife again after I was with the OW (or many months before actually) I need to help my ex-wife understand the relationship didn’t end because I cheated...

 

 

Well good luck with that... I doubt your "help" will be appreciated...

 

You messed up, perhaps you need to own that, not try to persuade your wife that her version of events was somehow inaccurate... you hid the OW and lied to your wife's face...

[Knightman]

Well good luck with that... I doubt your "help" will be appreciated...

 

You messed up, perhaps you need to own that, not try to persuade your wife that her version of events was somehow inaccurate... you hid the OW and lied to your wife's face...

 

What lie did I tell?

 

I didn't proactively disclose the relationship with the OW because I thought it would slow down and impact our legal separation.

 

My wife did put 2 and 2 together and eventually ask me about the OW, and I told her I was seeing someone. I didn't lie about it.

[Purepony]

Op let it go

 

Forgive yourself and forget you don’t need your wife’s validation or permission to move on

 

Forget about that terrible twisted woman and go start living and enjoying life with the new girl

[chryssy83]

I don’t think it matters whether we think you were right or wrong. You haven’t forgiven yourself because your conduct violated your own values. Stop looking for your wife or internet strangers to give you permission to feel okay about what you did. If you felt good about it you wouldn’t care what other people thought. You know it was was wrong.

 

That doesn’t mean you can’t forgive yourself though. It just means you need to go about it a different way.

[Ronni_W]

Please give me your opinion- am I a cheater and adulter?

If you are asking that from a legal standpoint, then do not take as absolute the answers that you get here, but rather ask an attorney in your own jurisdiction.

 

If you are asking that from a moral standpoint,

then know that you are your own and sole moral authority...regardless of whatever any other human Being on Earth, here or anywhere else, will try to tell you.

 

There is a lot of confusion and false notions that spiritual adultery means the same thing as committing sexual adultery against one's spouse/long-term romantic partner.

 

Within yourself you will know if you did or did not commit sexual adultery against your spouse; trust your own self, to know.

[Mr. Lucky]

Since your divorce is final and terms are set, I'm trying to understand why this is so important to you now?

 

Mr. Lucky

[vla1120]

Really, it’s all water under the bridge now. I understand why she is angry and so do you. You cannot change how this played out, so just live with it. In a nutshell, next time you grow tired of your partner, give her enough respect to wait until it is completely over before you start having an affair. I’m not putting all the blame on you because I don’t know the whole story, only your side. However, having been cheated on myself, I have a hard time justifying the betrayal, but that’s just me. I’m curious, does your new woman know the full circumstances? It seems some people enjoy being the OW/OM and she may lose interest once she knows you’re available.

 

I should add that we all make mistakes. Regardless of what happened, you shouldn’t be denied full access to your children because of it. Custody should be 50/50. I’d fight for that.

Edited February 12, 2019 by vla1120

[Jamess1]

And my kids are so blatantly my own it’s not funny. I don’t need a DNA test to tell me that anyone can just look at them and see it....

 

my wife was still detached and 2) she still wanted the separation, I became intimate with the OW before any seperation papers were signed...

 

I need to help my ex-wife understand the relationship didn’t end because I cheated...

 

I do feel I technically committed adultery. Somehow I need to make that right with God....

 

Your wife (not you) doesn't need a DNA test to tell her that the kids are hers. You need a DNA test to tell you whether the kids are yours or not, the having seks for twice for 2 years implies more than you realise..I don't have the space to explain to you everything..but just know I am wiser in this regards..

 

I am not asking, I am not in doubt, I am informing you : Your wife was having an affair through out your marriage...you are not the 1st man I have surprised and you won't be the last..investigate,go ask her work mates etc I state the facts you find the evidence.

 

Been a beta is mindset, it involves a 'naive' perception of women that was conditioned in most men in childhood : Your wife knows the marriage didn't end because you 'allegedly' cheated, she created circumstances that provoked the ending of the marriage, a narrative that she could use to convince herself that you were the reason the marriage ended, she wants to believe that it was her fault so she won't feel responsible and guilty for the end of your marriage, it's a real female psychological phenomenon.

 

An experienced divorce attorney once told me in all his decades of work, he has never met a divorced woman who didn't blame her ex for the divorce. Even if you had caught her naked with another man on your bed, she would still have blamed u for her cheating and divorcing her.

 

You didn't commit adultery. The biblical definition of adultery is when a married woman sleeps with a man other than her husband. If a married man sleeps with another woman who isn't his wife, but isn't married herself, he hasn't committed adultery. That woman is referred to as a 'concubine' and David had many of those including multiple wives. It's when he took another man's wife that he committed adultery...and when God rebuked David, he said I could have given you more women if the ones you had weren't enough, instead of a taking a married woman.

 

Your guilt is based on a lack of understand...in fact if you want to be religious, it is your wife who is guilty of causing the collapse of your marriage by denying you seks and affection : Don't deny each other, she didn't submit to you and respect you as the head of the family, she denied you her body, which also belonged to you as much as yours belonged to her, after you got married (one flesh)...but they won't tell you this, feminism is infiltrating all religions.

[Knightman]

I don’t think it matters whether we think you were right or wrong. You haven’t forgiven yourself because your conduct violated your own values. Stop looking for your wife or internet strangers to give you permission to feel okay about what you did.

 

You are right. One valuable conclusion I've taken away from this thread is just that. No one can tell me if what I did was right or wrong- only me.

[Knightman]

...you are your own and sole moral authority...regardless of whatever any other human Being on Earth, here or anywhere else, will try to tell you.

 

 

 

You're right. I'm my own moral authority and no one else can say what is right/wrong for me.

 

I felt it was acceptable to start with someone else, because my ex-w and I had already decided to separate and we were taking steps to have the papers drawn up. I only thought about it from my point of view not hers. Why? I was angry with her for her part in ending our marriage... I was hurting and I blamed her for it and did not care about her feelings . I now feel that in spite of my hurt and anger she deserved better.

 

 

There is a lot of confusion and false notions that spiritual adultery means the same thing as committing sexual adultery against one's spouse/long-term romantic partner.

 

I'm sorry to say I'm ignorant- I don't know the difference between the two.

[Ronni_W]

I felt it was acceptable to start with someone else, because my ex-w and I had already decided to separate and we were taking steps to have the papers drawn up.

<snip> I was angry with her <snip>

Well...if you did it out of spite or revenge, then obviously that's why it's still bothering you, and why it's only going to stop bothering you after you've truly, properly and fully forgiven yourself.

 

Without being motivated by any spite or revenge, then I'd suggest that it would have been acceptable, given that you were already on your way to divorce,

(and, in that case, it probably wouldn't be bothering you).

 

I'm sorry to say I'm ignorant- I don't know the difference between the two.

I'm not sure if you were asking...but...spiritual adultery is adultery, or unfaithfulness, against God (worshiping idols and false gods, or not believing in God, or worshiping material science as one's god.)

 

Human/sexual adultery is unfaithfulness against other people, or breaking our (human) vows and promises to them.

[elaine567]

I felt it was acceptable to start with someone else, because... I was angry with her for her part in ending our marriage... I was hurting and I blamed her for it and did not care about her feelings . I now feel that in spite of my hurt and anger she deserved better.

 

 

 

Is your OW aware you started the affair with her to spite your wife?

[Blind-Sided]

I read most of your posts here, and I'm in the same position as you. My wife (being together for 20 year) simply snapped one day, and said "I don't love you, and haven't for a long time". I was devastated as I thought everything was well above "Normal" in our marriage.

 

 

At this point, it's only been 3 months, but the lack of affection and sex is taking it's toll. I've told her that being this way is going to cause the marriage to simply fail because of the lack of "Effort" on her side... IF she wanted it to work out.

 

 

One point I brought up to her is... "How is this fair to me? and am I allowed to have a GF for physical attention?" She didn't know how to respond, and was actually a little set back by it since I'm not the kind of person who even "Looks around". (as many men do) Even my dad is the kind of guy to point out a pretty girl. Not that he would act on that... but I'm not that way.

 

 

On last Sunday night, I was getting ready for a biz trip, and I had a melt down, and basically told her she was the only one who wants our family to be ripped apart, and I had enough. I gave her back my wedding ring. I got up early Monday to get ready for my flight, and even shoveled snow at 5am. She got up and wanted to talk, and wanted to give back my ring. I told her I had no time to get into it (as I was getting ready to leave) and I told her that I felt I was no longer married... regardless of what some document said.

 

 

 

 

OK... I know that was the long way to get here... but... NO... you did not cheat on your wife in the purest form. She unofficially ended your marriage a long time ago, and you were holding on. I know you said you are Christian... but I'm Catholic, and "Infidelity" in the marriage isn't just cheating on your spouse, but it's also withholding physical relations. So, on that side, she was in the wrong first.

 

 

I would not feel guilty for one single moment !!! You gave her 2 years to figure it out. She withheld... she wanted the separation... she showed no affection... and she had no intention of finding a resolution.

 

 

The hard part is the kids. Just hold strong, and when they are old enough, you can tell them the truth of the relationship.

 

 

Good luck, and God bless.

 

 

 

 

(Wow... that felt good to write, since it was just a reflection of what I need to do)

Edited February 14, 2019 by Blind-Sided

[Blind-Sided]

OK... I know that was the long way to get here... but... NO... you did not cheat on your wife in the purest form. She unofficially ended your marriage a long time ago, and you were holding on. I know you said you are Christian... but I'm Catholic, and "Infidelity" in the marriage isn't just cheating on your spouse, but it's also withholding physical relations. So, on that side, she was in the wrong first.

 

 

 

For some reason I couldn't edit my post.

 

 

But, on the point above... her calling you a cheater is just her way of justifying her own guilt. Simple as that.

 

Here's a sinpit out of the Catholic definition.... " it need only be what theologians call matrimonium ratum. Sexual commerce with one engaged to another."

 

 

So... while some will take sodomy and immodest behavior into this... the point above is when there is lack of "Sexual Commerce" between the couple, then infidelity has already happened.

 

YOU DID NOT CHEAT !! Don't feel guilty about it.

Edited February 14, 2019 by Blind-Sided

[Knightman]

Is your OW aware you started the affair with her to spite your wife?

 

I definitely did not start an affair "to spite" my wife. Not sure where you got that idea from.

 

I was separated, lonely, and resentful after years of being lonely and neglected in a marriage where my wife wasn't able be a wife, and wasn't showing any signs of ever coming around.

[elaine567]

Here's a sinpit out of the Catholic definition.... " it need only be what theologians call matrimonium ratum. Sexual commerce with one engaged to another."

So... while some will take sodomy and immodest behavior into this... the point above is when there is lack of "Sexual Commerce" between the couple, then infidelity has already happened.

Nonsense.

 

 

Full quote

 

"Adultery is defined as carnal connection between a married person and one unmarried, or between a married person and the spouse of another. It is seen to differ from fornication in that it supposes the marriage of one or both of the agents. Nor is it necessary that this marriage be already consummated; it need only be what theologians call matrimonium ratum. Sexual commerce with one engaged to another does not, it is most generally held, constitute adultery."

 

This has nothing whatsoever to do with lack of sex within a marriage.

It is still adultery if the marriage is consummated or not anyway.

Matrimonium ratum = a ratified marriage, the marriage celebration has taken place.

As the OP is I guess in not only in a ratified marriage but also a consummated marriage, of course it is adultery if he steps out.

[Turning point]

{Adultery Definition: Voluntary sexual intercourse between a married person and another person who is not their married spouse.}

 

For those who are Christian and wish to follow the rules, it all seems pretty clear.

 

God hasn't published a dictionary - those would be the words of Merriam Webster.

 

The person carrying on a grievous deception in this story is the wife. She set forth and enforced specific conditions in the marriage that were in fact a double-bind. She knew what she was doing and she even had the insight to test and bait her trap with comments about dating and how quickly he could find someone new.

 

The wife is the person who cultivated the crop she harvested.

 

OP, You were separated and living apart at your wife's own insistence. She cancelled your marriage ticket years ago and whether it was hole punched by a divorce court is of no moral impart.

 

Divorce that manipulative woman and be with someone who treats you with dignity.

Edited February 19, 2019 by Turning point