Vivir Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 (edited) TheWaltz, when reading your posts, I immediately remember Lizzie60, an unabashed and unashamed Other Woman on LoveShack from yesteryear. She probably hasn't signed on in years. Maybe you are her reincarnated Selfishness is first and foremost a blind spot on someone's soul. We are all human and we don't get a pass for being indifferent to suffering and worse, enabling or creating it. The secret to fidelity is loving one's self enough to know what real love is not. I like what you said here, Turning point, but I cannot help but wonder how your second sentence will be taken when applied to so many other aspects of daily life in western society.. I agree with you, but the same can be said for so many different things that people are complicit in, whether knowingly or unknowingly. And... what if a person or persons are not even sure what "real" love is... most of us haven't experienced it in the romantic sense. And so many times, we can't even agree on what "real" love is... Edited February 17, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator Link to post Share on other sites
DKT3 Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 Few things that stand out....some women wear a I'm available sign, and most perceptive men will pick up on that. . In these cases the perceived user is actually the used. Beyond that, there is usually a major void in people who make themselves so available. My only question since its the only interesting point here, why have a partner? Unless its mutual, why drag someone else down this road of toxic intentional dysfunction? Link to post Share on other sites
darkmoon Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 (edited) so if/when your MM sees a third woman who he wants (I saw this in real life), you have no hold over him, only his wife does... be careful... or do think he will only ever want you? Edited February 15, 2019 by darkmoon Link to post Share on other sites
mark clemson Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 So, I'm gathering, OP, that you like sex and find this a convenient way to get additional sex/sexual variety and that you have no special feelings for the MMs involved. Also that you're in a relationship. Feel free to correct me if any of this is not correct. So, some questions: Per some posts above, how many have there been? Do you/have you told your BF about the MMs? Why/why not? If sexual variety is a driver, why wouldn't you ask for more/better/different with your BF? Or have you already? How long do your relations with the MMs last, typically? ONS, a few months, other? Has a MM become emotionally attached to you? If so, what did you do? What are your thoughts regarding the BSs of the MMs? What are your overall thoughts regarding the ethics of your actions? Link to post Share on other sites
Turning point Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 (edited) And... what if a person or persons are not even sure what "real" love is... most of us haven't experienced it in the romantic sense. And so many times, we can't even agree on what "real" love is... We all know intuitively what real love is, but we prefer denial. Love is not attraction. Love is not lust. Love is not butterflies, or adrenaline, passion, or any of the things we describe it with. Love is a choice. Commitment is making that choice repeatedly, and Fidelity is further choosing to cultivate all of the above within the safe bounds of our choice. We do it all the time without even really thinking about it. People portray the bond between parent and child as some "mystical" power - but, all we really do to create that bond is anticipate, plan and then choose. We also know what happens when parents fail or are incapable of making that choice. Spend a day observing anyone who loves their pet more than their spouse. What you see is very clear choices. The OW and OM may have many character flaws that contribute to their behavior but, in a nutshell affairs are nothing more than denial - people unwilling to decide. Edited February 15, 2019 by Turning point 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Midwestmom12 Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 I think you are correct with respect to the particulars of someone like your ex husband, at least from the view on your own side of the fence. Yet, if any of his his OW were married with children what would the BH say about your exWH pursuing and courting her? Does his disregard for children in such a situation make him anything other than a psychopath? I think the wannabee mentor for OW (OP) is a lot like your exWH and incapable of seeing her true self. What we get is the rationale, the way she wants to be remembered rather than who she really is. Selfishness is first and foremost a blind spot on someone's soul. We are all human and we don't get a pass for being indifferent to suffering and worse, enabling or creating it. The secret to fidelity is loving one's self enough to know what real love is not. I don't disagree with this but I do think affairs and cheating are a lot more complicated than we like to admit. The OM/OW is responsible and accountable for their actions but in most cases I don't find all of them to be like the OP. Many have been lonely for years and just wanting their shot at happiness. The WS, like my ex sells the story of being in an unhappy situation that is ending any day. The OM/OW jumps in thinking this may be their shot to finally have someone they can love. I don't find most OM/OW to be like the OP. There are some like her yes but most of them are pursued by their married lover under the guise they are in the process of ending their marriage. My ex did this to many women and this is why I never blamed them. They wanted their shot to have what they thought I had. If they knew the truth about who he was they would have run for the hills but they didn't. It's easy for the married person to where a mask and gain sympathy. Yes, love is a choice in some ways but many people don't make that choice and seek comfort, excitement outside of their relationships and marriages. This is why I blame the cheating spouse more than the OM/OW in most situations. Now, when both cheating parties are married, that is often a different dynamic entirely. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
overtherainbow1 Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 TheWaltz may have thick skin, but many of the OW and OM who read in this forum do not and are actually in A LOT of pain. The quickest way for them to feel better would be to end the negative, unhealthy affair and find their self respect again. So I don't see your point. Link to post Share on other sites
somanymistakes Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 The quickest way for them to feel better would be to end the negative, unhealthy affair and find their self respect again. So I don't see your point. "They should end the affair" is not in any way a rebuttal to "not all OW/OM are the same", so I don't see YOUR point. Link to post Share on other sites
Vivir Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 (edited) The quickest way for them to feel better would be to end the negative, unhealthy affair and find their self respect again. So I don't see your point. First, it is your opinion that the quickest way for us to feel better would be to end the negative, unhealthy affair and find our self-respect again, even though I agree with you. That way hurts incredibly, but in the end most of us eventually begin to feel better. Some don't. I think TheWaltz is illustrating that she has self-respect despite being an OW. Again, she reminds me of Lizzie60... perhaps reading Lizzie's posts and threads would make our current batch of LoveShackers proverbial heads explode:rolleyes: Overtherainbow, the quote you included was not written by TheWaltz. I originally directed it to Wallybears, who made a direct statement about how OW and OM are prostitute-types, in fact a step past prostitution... or some other such guff. My point is that this section of LoveShack is meant for support and discussion for those who find themselves involved with a committed partner... it says so right at the top of the page. So many of us have come here broken down or looking for a way out or in utter denial, as Turning point described previously, and instead of help we find hurt, like that in Wallybears post. Many of us expect "tough love" but it is ridiculous to believe we should expect and take verbal abuse without saying something. That was my point. Edited February 17, 2019 by Vivir Link to post Share on other sites
DKT3 Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 Vivie, unfortunately many came here set in thier thinking and full of justifications and excuses. Sometimes simply truths or common sense can feel abusive even when not. When my wife started posting here back in 2014 I would defend her against what I saw as abusive words such as she was unworthy and a horrible person. It was her that told me the words while hurtful were in fact accurate when taken purely on her actions. How else would you expect people to react. No one wants to see themselves as horrible even when the actions clearly say they have and continue to behave poorly. Cuddling or showing empathy for those who dont show empathy for others is at best disingenuous at worst reinforcement of those poor behaviors. However, calling someone a prostitute is too far. Link to post Share on other sites
DKT3 Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 As far as OP and self respect goes, I disagree strongly. In fact I would say its poor. She is admitting to using people nothing about that suggests strong self worth or respect. I suspect a large portion of her behavior is in fact to gain an ego boost. You know, I get other Women's men in bed because I'm amazing or better then her. Link to post Share on other sites
FMW Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 (edited) While affairs have a lot of commonalities, they are not all exactly the same, no matter how much some will argue otherwise. I've been on both side of the infidelity issue. I've been helped by posters on this forum, including being smacked around a bit to help me see clearly. But some of the smacks, after careful and thoughtful consideration, have no merit. Sometimes I try to rebut them but it's generally a fruitless effort. I have put in the time to know my own motivations and I know my own story. That's what matters. I can't relate whatsoever to OP and her story, just as I can't relate to some of the others I've read. Edited February 17, 2019 by Finding my way Link to post Share on other sites
DKT3 Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 At thier core all affairs are the same, what differs is the level of genuineness the two affair partners share. I believe here, OPs involvement is superficial and lacks depth. So of course it's easy for her, it's also very callous being that others can have thier entire lives forever altered because of it. With my wife's affair I struggle with the fact that she wasnt in love with the AP, being in love would have made sense to me at the time. It would have meant she threw us away for something substantial. Like OP she used the guy, who was single and in love with her. To her he was just someone who adored her and would only ask how high when she said jump. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
pepperbird Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 Sorry OP, I'm not buying this. What I'm seeing is someone who is actually very hurt by all of this trying to cover it up with an overconfidence and blase attitude. Peel that back and I fully expect you are hurting on the inside...unless you are completely callous and shallow, and the more you post, the less of that vibe I'm getting from you. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Turning point Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 I don't find most OM/OW to be like the OP. There are some like her yes but most of them are pursued by their married lover under the guise they are in the process of ending their marriage. My ex did this to many women and this is why I never blamed them. They wanted their shot to have what they thought I had. If they knew the truth about who he was they would have run for the hills but they didn't. It's easy for the married person to where a mask and gain sympathy. Yes, you can blame your spouse for being a predator. Allowing for the false pretense however, the OW still enters the affair fully aware of his unavailability and the legal barrier to getting her "shot." It is therefore a dance of two partners even if unbalanced. Link to post Share on other sites
Turning point Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 With my wife's affair I struggle with the fact that she wasnt in love with the AP, being in love would have made sense to me at the time. It would have meant she threw us away for something substantial. Like OP she used the guy, who was single and in love with her. To her he was just someone who adored her and would only ask how high when she said jump. That was difficult for me also. Once the pattern emerged and repeated, it became clear that I too, (even with children) had been used and discarded with equal indifference. Link to post Share on other sites
overtherainbow1 Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 First, it is your opinion that the quickest way for us to feel better would be to end the negative, unhealthy affair and find our self-respect again, even though I agree with you. That way hurts incredibly, but in the end most of us eventually begin to feel better. Some don't. I think TheWaltz is illustrating that she has self-respect despite being an OW. Again, she reminds me of Lizzie60... perhaps reading Lizzie's posts and threads would make our current batch of LoveShackers proverbial heads explode:rolleyes: Overtherainbow, the quote you included was not written by TheWaltz. I originally directed it to Wallybears, who made a direct statement about how OW and OM are prostitute-types, in fact a step past prostitution... or some other such guff. My point is that this section of LoveShack is meant for support and discussion for those who find themselves involved with a committed partner... it says so right at the top of the page. So many of us have come here broken down or looking for a way out or in utter denial, as Turning point described previously, and instead of help we find hurt, like that in Wallybears post. Many of us expect "tough love" but it is ridiculous to believe we should expect and take verbal abuse without saying something. That was my point. It is my opinion? I mean what do you think a psychiatrist's opinion would be? Different than mine? Oh you exploiting other people is fine. Going against moral code? Ah, no worries, you're just using other people and you're straightforward about it so all is well. The men you are involved with are simply using you for sex or emotional outlets without giving you any commitment - but you know this so it's great! And on top of that, you don't have feelings for them. Right. Stay in those unhealthy relationships. I think I may have glossed over the pain these situations cause for all involved. OW/OM may be taking advantage of people b/c they are in pain, but they know what they're doing is wrong. That doesn't help build their self esteem, it's just a temporary band aid. The self-respect I am reading from her seems very contrived. If a loved one of mine said things like that I'd be asking them to get their head checked. I don't think people should have to accept verbal abuse and just be quiet either. Link to post Share on other sites
mark clemson Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 So it looks like OP has left the building? Too bad - I still had some questions back in post #29. Link to post Share on other sites
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