BTDT2012 Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 why the heck am I in the wrong for even considering being involved w other guys? Because you are married. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Gb83 Posted February 27, 2019 Author Share Posted February 27, 2019 Ok, so letting ink dry on some piece of separation paper changes a person’s heart? Am I supposed to go around saying my husband wants to be with me after telling me many times we’re getting a divorce because we’re “married”? Link to post Share on other sites
bathtub-row Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 That’s the problem though. You don’t really know why MM and his wife are long distance. Maybe he’s verbally abusive, maybe he’s a chronic cheater. Either way, his wife not wanting to be with him doesn’t speak well for him as a husband. There’s usually something very wrong to cause a woman to leave her husband when she has a child with him. Most just won’t do it. Look at you - you’d prefer not to leave your husband but he’s basically driving you out the door. And, please, do not walk away from a great job into an insecure life. You have the big pieces worked out - you’re able to take care of yourself and your child. This is what keeps your problem from being a complete disaster. Hang on to the good things you have created for yourself. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
bathtub-row Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 Ok, so letting ink dry on some piece of separation paper changes a person’s heart? Am I supposed to go around saying my husband wants to be with me after telling me many times we’re getting a divorce because we’re “married”? The piece of paper does mean something but your husband has pissed away this marriage and probably won’t lose any sleep over it. It makes no diff in that sense whether you’re with someone else or not. If my spouse blew me off in such a way, it would be all bets off. Link to post Share on other sites
stillafool Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 I agree with others that you are right to divorce and I hate to tell you this but it seems like your husband doesn't love you. I definitely think you should stop all contact with MM or any man since you are pregnant and preparing for a divorce. Even if you see another man they are going to want sex and I'm sure you don't want to go there while you're pregnant. Plus you have a lot ahead of you, your whole life is going to change and you need to prepare. Link to post Share on other sites
BaileyB Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 I agree with others that you are right to divorce. I definitely think you should stop all contact with MM or any man since you are pregnant and preparing for a divorce. Plus you have a lot ahead of you, your whole life is going to change and you need to prepare. Very good advice, but it seems OP is intent on doing whatever is required (affair) to enable her to stay in a bad marriage or monkey branching from one relationship to another. There is no mention in her posts of any other options... Link to post Share on other sites
Author Gb83 Posted February 28, 2019 Author Share Posted February 28, 2019 Very good advice, but it seems OP is intent on doing whatever is required (affair) to enable her to stay in a bad marriage or monkey branching from one relationship to another. There is no mention in her posts of any other options... I know what you’re saying. The MM gives me a lot of companionship and friendship and frankly, oddly, more attention generally than my husband ever did. Consistently. Including support w issues w the baby (I felt he had a more caring reaction to the issue the other day than my husband, who made some obligatory response over text then immediately changed subject to get me to help w his work). This keeps me from feeling lonely. Without that, with everything I’m going through now, it’d be so hard. Hard enough that I’d say I should just stay w my husband because at least I’ll see him SOMEtimes and get SOME amount of companionship and support. He isn’t the absolute worst Link to post Share on other sites
BaileyB Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 I know what you’re saying. The MM gives me a lot of companionship and friendship and frankly, oddly, more attention generally than my husband ever did. Consistently. Including support w issues w the baby (I felt he had a more caring reaction to the issue the other day than my husband, who made some obligatory response over text then immediately changed subject to get me to help w his work). This keeps me from feeling lonely. Without that, with everything I’m going through now, it’d be so hard. Hard enough that I’d say I should just stay w my husband because at least I’ll see him SOMEtimes and get SOME amount of companionship and support. He isn’t the absolute worst You have known this MM for two months. I have food older than that in my fridge. This “relationship” is little more than infatuation at this point. It’s not likely to go the distance. Personally, I think your marriage is done. I’m just not sure you are ready to admit that yourself yet. Because, you are not prepared to do the hard thing and file for divorce and live on your own. You don’t see life as a single mother as a viable option right now. Which is why, it seems to me, that you are choosing between two equally poor options - staying in a bad marriage or jumping from one bad relationship into another unproven, and potentially very bad relationship. Just my two cents... 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Gb83 Posted February 28, 2019 Author Share Posted February 28, 2019 You have known this MM for two months. I have food older than that in my fridge. This “relationship” is little more than infatuation at this point. It’s not likely to go the distance. Personally, I think your marriage is done. I’m just not sure you are ready to admit that yourself yet. Because, you are not prepared to do the hard thing and file for divorce and live on your own. You don’t see life as a single mother as a viable option right now. Which is why, it seems to me, that you are choosing between two equally poor options - staying in a bad marriage or jumping from one bad relationship into another unproven, and potentially very bad relationship. Just my two cents... That is what I’m doing. Even though my husband IMO acts very childish, and I can’t be attracted to him or truly respect him, I am trying to focus upon the good qualities that caused me to feel it was good enough to settle down in first place. I get what you’re saying about MM but I am not comparing him to my husband or any other guy from infatuation stage in past - I never felt half this excited or strongly about my connection with my husband at ANY point including “infatuation stage.” That is what has stricken and confused me so much. Example: my husband would cancel plans on account of work he wanted to do right from the beginning sometimes, then I wouldn’t hear from him for days & days. MM will have to cancel hanging out but want to call me ASAP that day if can’t physically meet up Link to post Share on other sites
leigh01 Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 I’m not going to lie, this would totally creep me out. You love the attention he threw your way because we are starved for attention from your husband. In other words, you were vulnerable and he exploited that. He absolutely love bombed you and in the “dating” world, that is a HUGE RED FLAG. Men like this tend to come on strong, and either completely mess with you or leave one day, totally unannounced. Be warned. I would also be really concerned about the judgment of a man who tells a woman he barely knows that he will essentially raise another man’s child. Most men don’t do this - they would have no interest in another man’s husband when that woman is carrying the other man’s child. This whole situation actually sends chills down my spine. Be very, very careful with this guy. I can’t tell you what a mistake I think this is for you. Not saying that you should stay married to the man if you really don’t love him. But, if you don’t want to be married then file for divorce. Don’t jump from the pot into the frying pan with another man. And, why the heck did you get pregnant if you are so desperately unhappy in your marriage? If I was your husband, I would be FURIOUS that you would even be entertaining thoughts of another man, while pregnant with my child. All of this. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
PhoenixRising8 Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 Agree, I can’t count on some amazing outcome with the MM, though all I know is that I really enjoy his company and feel oddly fulfilled by whatever relationship we have right now. Like, he calls or wants to see me every night even if just to get food, and somehow this makes me happy enough bc it’s already more than my own husband has really ever given, attention or chemistry/passion wise?! I guess that shows how Aspberger’s-like he is?! my question and focus is whether I can stand to stay attached to my husband who is just hardly present/is a workaholic, with whom I’ve never had any passion. I feel I could probably stay in the relationship if my sexual needs were met elsewhere but obviously my husband doesn’t want an open relationship! I am a very recent xOW. Please listen to me. My MM and I started our affair exactly 11 months ago - that's how long the affair lasted. It ended 3 days ago. We both said we only wanted a distraction and neither was going to leave their spouse. 3 months later I separated because of MY spouse. Not because of the affair. I have a very long thread on here - Never Thought I'd be the OW. Don't make the mistake of conflating the issues around your marriage and the affair. Make a decision about the merits of staying or leaving based on its own set of facts. The MM should not be a factor. If your marriage is bad, get out. Trust me, as I found out, staying in a bad marriage for children does nothing good for them. Ask my daughter. She tells me she wishes we had separated earlier. But coming from a "broken home" I didn't want to do that to her. If only I had. My x blew up her sense of identity to hurt me. I will never forgive myself for waiting until he hurt her to do what I should have done years earlier. As for MM, read my thread. Yes it's 60+ pages long but there's lots of good advice there that I did all sorts of gymnastics to dispel. We saw each other 4-6 times a week. He dropped everything when I needed him. He was always there for me. Until he wasn't. When I separated, he started talking about us "between now and forever" as life partners. Until his wife started to suspect he was having an affair and after (according to him) years of no affection, connection or attention, she went on an all out campaign to guilt him into staying and winning him back. He even went so far as to tell her and their adult kids he wanted to separate. And got the guilt trip. With birthdays and holidays at the end of the year, all the family time worked and I started to notice a slow but steady decline. In the end, I finally got him to admit, despite the fact he "prefers" to be with me, he isn't sure he can withstand the turmoil it would cause his family. I'd had enough of waiting and being patient and being strung along. It ended this past Sunday. Spouses have LOTS of power. They have to do literally nothing because of kids, money, property and the marriage certificate. It takes actual ACTION to end the marriage. In the end, all the spouse has to do is pay some attention and more likely than not, that's all it takes. Even if MM loves you, if he can tolerate the spouse, odds are he'll stay. Because it's easier. Because it's known and comfortable. Because it takes no action. Because his wife is faithful, unlike you who are cheating with him, whether physically or only emotionally, you are still cheating. He Is cheating also, but that's him so it doesn't count. Like when I told MM maybe I should date. No way. He could have 2 women because he isn't sleeping with both (says him) but I would be cheating on HIM. Can you fathom the gall? In the end, the spouse, if she finds out, may not stick around but she will for the time being just so you won't prevail. She won't give him up so easily, especially if this is the first time because she will be thinking about the kids and the money and the property. And despite what he says, odds are minuscule he will. That's what everyone tried to tell me. That's what I didn't want to hear. You think he's perfect and supportive and your best friend? So did I. Until BS started her campaign. What I failed to acknowledge is that he was disrespecting her and their marriage as well as me by not doing the honourable thing and choosing one or the other. He was cruel to her; what I didn't acknowledge was he was also being cruel to me by making promises he deferred keeping. And some day, if you are "lucky enough" to snag him, he will do it to you. Instead of dealing with issues and problems like a mature adult, he will withdraw and find the next woman who needs him. How do you know? Well you can only go by past behaviour. He's doing it now with you. Why do you think he won't do it TO YOU? Link to post Share on other sites
PhoenixRising8 Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 I agree. When someone starts spouting words about divorce, it’s a death blow to the marriage. I had a friend who would tell me about how she and her husband would get into these huge fights (it happened about every 6 mos) and one or both of them would threaten divorce. I told her that saying those words to your partner is extremely damaging and they should never be said unless you intend to follow thru with it. Needless to say, the couple divorced. When I pointed out to her that they had those fights about every six months, she swore that they didn’t. Her husband ended up cheating on her. THIS ^^^^ For years my ex would pull out the suitcase and start packing when we had a fight and I would try to reason with him until he agreed to stay. Finally I told him the next time he does this he can follow through. He stopped. Then he found other ways to hurt me. After 25 years, he is now my ex. Threatening to leave isn't how to solve problems and shows an inability to do so. I ended up cheating before finally chucking him out. Sadly a lot of damage was done before that happened. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Gb83 Posted February 28, 2019 Author Share Posted February 28, 2019 Great advice as always. I’ve been friendly but refused further advances because I told him I’m not into a multiple-relationships thing. I mean at least I’d told my husband everything and then he asked for a divorce for weeks before anything physical. Who knows if MM has said a word like that to her and why the hell should I be available for any sexual pleasure if he’s done nothing “for me”- ie if I’m not the only woman? Any rational man should be able to understand that. Link to post Share on other sites
bathtub-row Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 It's very sad that life has led you in this direction, that your husband makes you feel so unloved and alone. I've been where you are, except that I wasn't married. I was a single mom and alone, someone I was close to in my family had moved thousands of miles away, and I felt very isolated. And along comes MM who was there for me constantly and distracting me from the isolation. He was sweet and kind and adored me. But I ended up truly heartbroken. I just hope the same thing doesn't happen to you. I do know that at the time I was going through all that, I couldn't have let him go. After a time, I did, but it was a constant back-and-forth thing..., until it wasn't. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Gb83 Posted February 28, 2019 Author Share Posted February 28, 2019 Thanks. I have tried hard to keep myself in check, with moments where I take a step back and ask “is this objectively OK?” Guy is married, still with photo (albeit old) with his family being newly put on Instagram, hasn’t gone through w separation and is trying to be involved w me sexually? HOW is that fair to me? Does it not make me a sex object being used? Link to post Share on other sites
bathtub-row Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 It’s really hard to say what these situations are; difficult to label them. But they often end up hurting others and that includes yourself. If I had to do it all again, I wouldn’t have gotten involved. I’d love to tell you that it was worth it all but that’s not how I think about it. Link to post Share on other sites
BaileyB Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 Guy is married, still with photo (albeit old) with his family being newly put on Instagram, hasn’t gone through w separation and is trying to be involved w me sexually? HOW is that fair to me? Does it not make me a sex object being used? Yes. 10 characters Link to post Share on other sites
Author Gb83 Posted February 28, 2019 Author Share Posted February 28, 2019 (edited) Yes. 10 characters I like that I’m apparently a great choice for this when quite pregnant. Lol I don’t get it This is more straightforward than I realized, posting Instagram pics of your family (even old ones) while trying to sleep with me isn’t acceptable bc it doesn’t show evidence of ending the other relationship. Can’t see any reason I should be alone with him & expect him not to try more. And what better explanation than I’m looking to find someone not in multiple simultaneous relationships?! Edited February 28, 2019 by Gb83 Link to post Share on other sites
bathtub-row Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 Any picture - old or new - is a red flag. The truth is, even if he left his wife today and filed for divorce, he’s got a long road ahead of him. And regardless of whether the marriage has been over for awhile or not, a lot of drama and confusion follows a divorce. It’s a long road and he hasn’t even started. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Gb83 Posted March 3, 2019 Author Share Posted March 3, 2019 (edited) The MM from my other post said some odd things, that he’s been close to very very few people in life but feels he disappoints the ones he does become close to & it appears no one can end up happy with him. I took this to mean he wants me to move on & never would really want a relationship with me, so this is a way to get me to give up so to speak. Which is fine. But he insisted that isn’t true, and said maybe he doesn’t actually mean much to me if I am fine with not seeing him anymore, giving up, and moving on so easily. Huh?? At this point Ive stopped being anything remotely more than platonic than him and its great to be emotionally free, but I guess these comments still perplexed me. I do better at moving on when I understand the situation and I don't get why he said that stuff Edited March 3, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator Link to post Share on other sites
BaileyB Posted March 3, 2019 Share Posted March 3, 2019 (edited) It’s typical married man talk to me - confusing, contradicting, self-focused, and probably full of BS. And you are doing what most OW do - listen intently, over-analyze, try to make sense of the non-sensical as you decide what it really means for you... Don’t be friends with this guy, for several reasons. First, he’s not a good guy who you want to have in your life. Second, you have both already crossed boundaries, what makes you think that either of you will be able to maintain a healthy boundary now. And finally, it prevents you from truly moving on with your life... perhaps, to find a man who will love you and want to have a relationship with you. No self respecting man is going to want to date you if you have another married man, a man with whom you have previously had an affair with, in your life. Edited March 3, 2019 by BaileyB Spelling 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Ronni_W Posted March 3, 2019 Share Posted March 3, 2019 "I'm no good; I don't deserve you or happiness; This is just me - I can't do better; I can never do anything right; I always disappoint the ones who love and care about me"... It's all self-pitying and passive-aggressive; meant to trigger the listener's compassionate, loving, nurturing instincts, and manipulate him or her into pouring out more compassion, love and nurturance into a situation that is not mutually supportive or rewarding. The tactic is not used exclusively by married people on their affair partners, but they do it also. Link to post Share on other sites
elaine567 Posted March 3, 2019 Share Posted March 3, 2019 7. Pity, Pity, and More Pity: Exaggerate illness, money woes, how badly they have been treated. They need you to feel sorry for them so you will do things for them. According to Martha Stout, the pity play is the telltale sign of a sociopath. Article I am not suggesting all MM are sociopaths but many of them do sure show a lot of the signs. Link to post Share on other sites
BaileyB Posted March 3, 2019 Share Posted March 3, 2019 (edited) "I'm no good; I don't deserve you or happiness; This is just me - I can't do better; I can never do anything right; I always disappoint the ones who love and care about me"... It's all self-pitying and passive-aggressive; meant to trigger the listener's compassionate, loving, nurturing instincts, and manipulate him or her into pouring out more compassion, love and nurturance into a situation that is not mutually supportive or rewarding.. Agreed. However, it would have the opposite effect on me, as it did for OP. If he is self-pitying and “warning” me to stay away, that he is not worthy of my love... I would walk away. But, that’s because I don’t play those games... And when OP did walk away, he changed his tactic. Gone is the self-pitying, “I’m broken, not worthy, I need your love...” and then begins the reverse psychology of trying to turn the table on OP and make it her fault - SHE has walked away, but still self-pitying with a heavy dose of guilt for good measure “he obviously doesn’t mean much as much to her if she can just walk away...” It’s typical married man game playing. His first strategy, to play on your emotions, didn’t work to get you back in his bed. So, he changed it up... placing the blame on you, trying to make you feel guilty, attempting to manipulate you to do exactly what he wants... and continue to engage with him. Block him. See what he says then... Edited March 3, 2019 by BaileyB Link to post Share on other sites
Ronni_W Posted March 3, 2019 Share Posted March 3, 2019 It’s typical married man game playing. Not exclusively -- my 80-year-old mother is still pulling the same BS on me, complete with 'reverse psychology / trying to rewrite the script'. A 'bonus' for her is that now when she gets called out, she claims age-related memory loss/mental impairment. . Other people will, of course, just find other reasons to justify/excuse their poor behaviour -- low self-esteem, children, spouse, sex life, work, finances. . Since Gb83 has already endured both sides of this man's same sad manipulative tactics, she has the experience to get stronger and stronger at withstanding his onslaught. For me, it did take practice and determination and really hard work to be able to finally and once-and-for-all not let my mom induce guilt and panic and feeling crappy about myself for just ignoring her. (If that makes sense?) Gb83, sending hugs, and strength and courage. Link to post Share on other sites
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