How to say I’m over “this” you?

[Missing4]

Hi all! I’ve been reading a lot of this forum and now I need your collective help. If you would, please lend me your thoughts.

 

My wife (36) and I (33) met 8 years ago and have been married for 6, with now a child who’s 4.5yrs old. We met through me cheating on someone else with her. Looking back, all relationships involved were very immature, but that’s life. From 8 years ago until now, I’ve been reading and learning and improving myself to the point that I’m not here, on LS.

 

The kiddo was unplanned, but a blessing that was essentially the catalyst to my growth as a person. The wife and I have drifted so far apart that it’s now the typical roommates with a kid situation.

 

I’ve read hundreds of threads on this subject alone, and books upon books, and I’ve come to the realization that I don’t want this marriage anymore. We’ve both attempted to divorce in the past, but didn’t due to “love” for each other. But what it comes down to is this:

 

I’m actually meeting her needs. I know this because I’m constantly reflecting on this, and I often ask “how can I make this situation better?” Or “what’s a need that is missing that I can help?”

 

In the past it was “nothing,” but after talks, which I bring up in order to improve our marriage, she finally verbalizes her needs. The last one from two days ago was “I need more stimulating conversation.” After reflection, I thought about why I don’t talk much and it’s just that she doesn’t have any follow up questions, ever. I’ve told her this using conflict resolution language and it’s been better, plus I’ve been extra attentive to my reactions and leave takings.

 

This is what the issue is. I realize that I’m always attempting to meet her needs, because I genuinely want to care for her cuz I love her as my partner. BUT... now I realize that I can’t do that. I’ve run out of fuel because she doesn’t meet my needs. I’m order for me to meet her needs, the energy of my needs being met. If she’s not able to provide that, then I have to provide that for myself.

 

She doesn’t come to me for physical touch, which is my love language. Out of the 5 languages, hers is definitely doing services, but I wouldn’t know because she still hasn’t read the book that I bought, and again made sure verbally that she knows it’s important to me that she reads it to help our marriage, and how it’s painful that she CONTINUES to read fantasy novels and such. This is after she first said the library has the book on hold and doesn’t want to read it in PDF form... she tells me this while reading her novels with an E-reader lol. I mean... damn, haha.

 

Anyways, this isn’t the first time we’ve talked about the issue, and remember that I’m constantly updating my brains knowledge through talking and reading, so now I’ve come to the conclusion that she just isnt into this marriage, or she is but not in the “in love” phase. Either way, I’m dying. We don’t have sex. Maybe 3 times a year. I don’t even want sex because I’m constantly anxious, which I’ve brought up, yet goes untalked about. I just don’t feel it in me anymore, because it feels like I’m the only want that’s wanting this, but I don’t want to sacrifice mysef whole not getting what I need, nor do I want my child to think that’s what love is. I’ve been a “white knight” for far too long.

 

I’m just out of energy. I can’t keep trying to make something work when there’s no reason. She doesn’t come to me for anything because I’ve been meeting her needs. She doesn’t need me because I’ve been meeting her needs. I need her because my needs aren’t met. If she can’t meet them then I HAVE to meet them for myself, so I need to move the energy from her to me. My kids needs are met by me because she meets all of my needs for our relationship, so we raaaaaaaaarely fight, and they’re usually resolved in a two min conversation which ends with hugs and love I also don’t want my needs to be met by another adult, because cheating is never the answer.

 

So now, LS, how do I bring this up? She’s said in the past she doesn’t know what she wants for her future. We’ve been to marriage counselling, and she to IC, and both times she didn’t like the therapists and hasn’t been back. I’ve broken down in front of her in the past, which didn’t really phase her much. And in all fairness she’s tried, but a few nights ago I asked her if she’s doing that just for me, or is it for her or for us, because it just seems like I’m the one needing her, and she could be without me no problem. She apologized that she can’t love me that way. I understood but it didn’t really click until last night, thus I’m here.

 

How do I say that for the next 6 months I’ll be trying for our marriage, and that after 6 months if we still don’t feel it’s working, then we’ll do a separation, which after 9 months if we still don’t feel it, then it’s divorce. How do I say currently I’m planning to separate in 6 months if it continues like this, because I really need to not be depressed anymore. I don’t want to meet my needs and she meets her own needs and still stay married for the kid. It’s not fair to me, and it’s a horrible lesson for our kiddo. How do I say I’ll keep improving as a person and I hope that she wants to be with me, and show me that. How do I say that I love her and want my needs to be met, and if she’s not the one meeting them then i have to be the one to meet them.

 

Sorry for the long post, but I don’t want a divorce yet I don’t want to live like this anymore. In the next 6 months I still plan to seek marriage counselling, individual counselling, and whatever steps I have to take, one being posting on here I hope she puts in the effort, because she’s losing me as I have lost her long ago emotionally

[S2B]

Well, if this union isn’t working for you and it’s not likely to change then it’s best to just be honest knowing this is as good as it’s gonna get.

 

You can’t expect her to change who she is at her core.

 

 

An honest conversation is needed to say “ I want a divorce”. Then file.

 

And when you move to the future treat your ex wife with respect - you are setting examples for your child - so be fair and considerate.

 

Don’t ever talk bad about your ex wife to others. It’s just a relationship that isn’t working. No one needs to know all the details of you saying it out loud - children over hear things and it hurts like heck.

 

Make agreements when approaching divorce so that you know what to expect and so does she.

 

Does she work?

[Missing4]

No, she’s not working yet but I’ve supported her immigration to Canada from the USA, on a single salary that’s just at the poverty line >.< good life now though, and she’ll be able to get work soon. I’ll always support them (if she takes the kiddo) but that isn’t something I’m hoping for.

 

I want my marriage to work. What I’m asking for is for someone to tell me how to articulate my OP into a conversation, heh. I’m very very bad with words. I need your internet collective help to make a message, if you will, that would convey what I mean while reducing the chances of miscommunication.

 

I want the marriage to work. I want it to work for our daughter. I want to be a functional unit, not a contempt unit. If it’s a choice between contempt marriage or divorce, then I choose to divorce so I don’t live with resentment and daughter sees that even while divorce we’re still going to be a family, just separated more often then other families. I don’t want that future. I just want our future together to be where everyone’s needs are met because we all want that for each other, not because we HAVE to. Because we really don’t have to. We can survive fine on our own, as the last 3 years of dead bedroom have proved >.<

[S2B]

You could write out a list/letter to her with a deadline included that states clearly if the list isn’t accomplished or if she is unwilling to participate on a level that helps you feel loved/honored and appreciated - then divorce is the only solution.

 

Be specific about what you need in the list. Be clear.

 

 

She needs to work. Have her get a job so she’s gets organized and busy. I find I’m more effective when I work - I get things done knowing I have to fit things in to my work schedule.

[DKT3]

What you want requires her to make the effort, she has proven unwilling so to be honest six months wont make a difference.

 

You want to have the conversation, just tell her how you wrote it here. I don't think its words your looking for, I think you fear asking for what you want because you fear rejection. If you lay it on the line, you fear she will call and you will be forced to lay down or walk away.

[Turning point]

I'm not left with a sympathetic feeling having read your narrative. It portrays you as someone who's done lots of research and talking, but probably not any kind of active listening.

 

Your wife is not a lab rat. I'm sorry but, that is pretty much the impression that jumps off the page with the word "we" appearing only 10 times alongside 74 instances of "I." Experiencing that proportion on a daily basis has probably resulted in your wife shutting down, and shutting you out.

 

If you stop playing professor and start being a student of your wife, perhaps this could be turned around.

[preraph]

So you want her to have sex with you even when she doesn't want to and that would solve your marriage problem? Look, I'm sorry you have this imbalance and I understand men want sex and would like their worlds to revolve around it, and I think it's great you've tried to be so informed in order to meet her needs and all that. But it comes down to what we hear on here literally all the time, which is if men aren't getting enough sex in their marriage, they are ready to throw all the rest away and just get out. It's an odd priority to most women, who care most about their kids and taking care of their family.

 

Women need a connection and to be attracted and have things right emotionally to want sex. That's hard to get back. No woman likes to be regarded, though, as someone who must sexually serve her husband, a sexual servant. I mean, she's already chasing a toddler around on his behalf. It just seems like such a petty thing to most women that that is their number one concern.

 

 

So you're in a common but unfortunate situation . If women have sexual needs not being met, they will simply get themselves off rather than try to make a partner do it if they have lost interest. Yes, of course, women may miss the warmth of affection, as well as men, but as far as sex, women just wouldn't normally pick up and leave a family over it. Priorities.

 

I wouldn't go telling her physical touch is your "love language," because that reads like that you can't have feelings for her if she's not touching you, which of course reads like "All he cares about is sex. That's all I am to him. He doesn't care about me unless we're having sex." And that may well be true. Men usually act like they're in love with you during sex, even if you've only been on two dates. All but the youngest most naive women know this. And don't like it.

 

So really, it's up to you what would be your happiest move here. Maybe you'd be happier divorced and joint custody so you can date on the nights you don't have your children. Maybe she would be too.

[Turning point]

It would help if you were more honest, and by that I mean you took an enormous amount of page space to articulate what can be said in a single sentence:

 

"The definition of a working marriage to me, is having regular sex."

There's nothing wrong with wanting (and having) regular sex - but you're expressing a destination without an actual travel plan and then doing research to back it up?

 

"You can be a millionaire and never pay taxes!"

.. in just two simple steps:

 

First - get a million dollars.....

 

 

Can you see how this proposition of meeting your needs (as presented) might 'cause your wife to simply disengage?

Edited February 24, 2019 by Turning point

[Turning point]

What I’m asking for is for someone to tell me how to articulate my OP into a conversation, heh. I’m very very bad with words.

 

You can't "articulate" someone in to a conversation. Words won't do this for you - just stop talking. All you need is your ears and real empathy.

 

It's also necessary for you to realize and accommodate how long it's been since you've probably done that, if at all.

[Missing4]

You could write out a list/letter to her with a deadline included that states clearly if the list isn’t accomplished or if she is unwilling to participate on a level that helps you feel loved/honored and appreciated - then divorce is the only solution.

 

Be specific about what you need in the list. Be clear.

 

 

She needs to work. Have her get a job so she’s gets organized and busy. I find I’m more effective when I work - I get things done knowing I have to fit things in to my work schedule.

 

The list idea is good. See, at this point I’ve been so focused on improving myself (par her request years ago) which lead me here. I don’t know what I need from her anymore... she’s going to start working after her certification program ends in April. That’s why the 6 months are there.

 

I’ve asked her what she wants from the relationship and her reply is always “I don’t know.” I don’t want to be in a planless ship anymore.

 

So I guess I wouldn’t know what to put on the list :/

[Missing4]

What you want requires her to make the effort, she has proven unwilling so to be honest six months wont make a difference.

 

You want to have the conversation, just tell her how you wrote it here. I don't think its words your looking for, I think you fear asking for what you want because you fear rejection. If you lay it on the line, you fear she will call and you will be forced to lay down or walk away.

 

The 6 months is to give her tome to prepare financially, because her program won’t end until April, so she’ll be able to work after that. And like I said, I want to try everything before pulling the plug. We NEED direction. It’s taken me years to change, but from day one she knew (through constant communication) that I’m working to change for myself which will in turn enhance the marriage. I can see now that she should have also been doing that for herself, but alas, hindsight.

 

I’m not afraid of rejection, because I’ve been getting rejected for over 3 years now lol. I’m actually at acceptance. We’re living like roommates now, so waking away is actually the better path if my goal is to escape the pain. But it isn’t because I’ve processed that pain. Now I’m ready to ask HER to work. I just wanted to word it better than “work hard to prove u love me,” because that’s not it. No one can ever be forced to love someone.

 

The result of reading and learning and talking is this me. The one that’s confident walking into the future single or married. I’d prefer married but I deserve to not feel drained by another adult, or to just live with another roommate for the sake of a toddler.

 

Hence, my request for better wording

[Missing4]

I'm not left with a sympathetic feeling having read your narrative. It portrays you as someone who's done lots of research and talking, but probably not any kind of active listening.

 

Your wife is not a lab rat. I'm sorry but, that is pretty much the impression that jumps off the page with the word "we" appearing only 10 times alongside 74 instances of "I." Experiencing that proportion on a daily basis has probably resulted in your wife shutting down, and shutting you out.

 

If you stop playing professor and start being a student of your wife, perhaps this could be turned around.

 

Exactly. She’s shut down. I’ve listened. I’ve definitely not been great until now, and I’ll continue to work on myself. Please realize that I’ve been actively trying to cover her needs as she has told me about them throughout our relationship. I’ve been wrong to not ask her to do the same for me. I’ve definitey asked, but in a passive aggressive way in the past, or through pleading, but again, that was years ago before all this change.

 

What do you mean be a student? I’m not exaggerating when I say that at THIS point she’s not giving me ANY direction, because there’s nothing for me to change about myself anymore. Those are her words too :/

 

Could you expand on your request?

[Missing4]

So you want her to have sex with you even when she doesn't want to and that would solve your marriage problem? Look, I'm sorry you have this imbalance and I understand men want sex and would like their worlds to revolve around it, and I think it's great you've tried to be so informed in order to meet her needs and all that. But it comes down to what we hear on here literally all the time, which is if men aren't getting enough sex in their marriage, they are ready to throw all the rest away and just get out. It's an odd priority to most women, who care most about their kids and taking care of their family.

 

Women need a connection and to be attracted and have things right emotionally to want sex. That's hard to get back. No woman likes to be regarded, though, as someone who must sexually serve her husband, a sexual servant. I mean, she's already chasing a toddler around on his behalf. It just seems like such a petty thing to most women that that is their number one concern.

 

 

So you're in a common but unfortunate situation . If women have sexual needs not being met, they will simply get themselves off rather than try to make a partner do it if they have lost interest. Yes, of course, women may miss the warmth of affection, as well as men, but as far as sex, women just wouldn't normally pick up and leave a family over it. Priorities.

 

I wouldn't go telling her physical touch is your "love language," because that reads like that you can't have feelings for her if she's not touching you, which of course reads like "All he cares about is sex. That's all I am to him. He doesn't care about me unless we're having sex." And that may well be true. Men usually act like they're in love with you during sex, even if you've only been on two dates. All but the youngest most naive women know this. And don't like it.

 

So really, it's up to you what would be your happiest move here. Maybe you'd be happier divorced and joint custody so you can date on the nights you don't have your children. Maybe she would be too.

 

Hmmm I think you misread or misunderstood my point about physical touch. I DONT EVER want someone to have sex with me when they don’t want to. She’s actually done it in the past with me, but I didn’t know this until she told me that she did it to please me, which got me pissed because I became a predator then involuntarily. She’s refused physical intimacy before so she didn’t need to do that. Please don’t think I’d ever want to be touched when the person doesn’t want to touch me. This is why I’m going on the walk away path if it continues like this.

 

By physical touch I mean ANY touch. She used to hold my hand when we walked. Hug me when I came home. Just simple touching. Now it’s NOTHING. And we’ve already talked about this and she said she’ll try harder, which she did for a day or two... not even. The rift kept growing until I no longer expect anything, yet I still provided that for her without expecting it back, because it was for her. That was probably white knighting, but I genuinely don’t know...

 

I’m not a monster guys, I’m just a dude who’s been providing for all and not for himself.

 

In the next 6 months I’ll continue to be the best husband I can be, but if I just don’t see any change within her, then it’s just not fair for me to keep doing it, and it’s not good for her to stay with me for her own growth.

[Missing4]

I can see how physical touch is automatically assumed to be sex. For the next while, I’d actually prefer no sex. I just want to have the connection that doesn’t involve sex. Lack of dates and free time definitely hurts, but why is it that I continue to want this and she not? I’ve accepted that she doesn’t, and in fact want her to NOT FEEL GUILTY about it. She tells me she feels guilty for not loving me, but I don’t think she should feel any guilt, because she’s just feeling her feelings. If she’s feeling guilt then maybe there’s more to this, but I’m

Not a mind reader... yet...

 

I just want all of us to be happy moving forward, whether it’s towards each other or towards a great co-parenting situation. Love doesn’t mean sex, and never should. It’s the result of a healthy relationship, which in this case it is not, and sex will just complicate things >.<

 

We have amazing sex FYI. Orgasms for both sides EVERY time, but my performance has been getting bad because I feel like I’m being used to satisfy her sexually while I’m still feeling alone...

[preraph]

You might consider this: She may be afraid to just hold your hand or show any cuddle affection if in the past you have taken that opportunity to try to have sex. I think that happens a lot. The woman can't express any affection without it initiating sex. So just think if that could be the case. Or just throw your arm around her when you're watching TV and then take it away after awhile and don't initiate sex. Maybe she'll relax some about it and it might help a little.

[Missing4]

You might consider this: She may be afraid to just hold your hand or show any cuddle affection if in the past you have taken that opportunity to try to have sex. I think that happens a lot. The woman can't express any affection without it initiating sex. So just think if that could be the case. Or just throw your arm around her when you're watching TV and then take it away after awhile and don't initiate sex. Maybe she'll relax some about it and it might help a little.

 

No no no. This issue was with the past me, like 1.5 years ago. We’ve now BOTH stopped reaching out physical, except I realize that this means divorce is coming so I’m trying to not let that happen, but her lack of concern is making me also not want to be concerned.

 

We’re both now roommates. This is leading to divorcE. I don’t want that to happen, but if she’s not feeling it then that’s fine, because I’ve alreay been grieving the loss of my marriage for years...

 

If separation happens, I won’t be going to another relationship because that isn’t the goal at all.

 

Do you guys see why I’m posting this thread? I’m getting feedback and eventually we’ll reach the correct idea that I’m trying to convey. Turning feelings to thoughts to words is a really obnoxious processs, eh fellow humans?

[Missing4]

By the way, I’m a teacher so it makes sense that I’m over analyzing things, albeit annoying hehe. Sorry gang, but thank you, and I really appreciate this!

[preraph]

It doesn't make any sense to me that if you're leaving her because of no sex and touch, that you wouldn't want to get into a new relationship with sex and touch. Then why leave?

[Missing4]

You might consider this: She may be afraid to just hold your hand or show any cuddle affection if in the past you have taken that opportunity to try to have sex. I think that happens a lot. The woman can't express any affection without it initiating sex. So just think if that could be the case. Or just throw your arm around her when you're watching TV and then take it away after awhile and don't initiate sex. Maybe she'll relax some about it and it might help a little.

 

I can’t edit posts yet, but I wanted to clarify that for the last 2 years I’ve not expected sex, but that has never stopped me from being physical with her. Arm Around her when cooking, watching, etc. Give her shoulder rubs and body massages when she asks, but more often I’d do it when we’re together cuz I want her to feel good, which makes me happy too~

 

Her lack of reaching out to touch me is the issue. She doesn’t even reach out to hug me, but will 100% accept them. But when in the past I’ve stopped, she’ll notice and assume I’m upset with her and eeeevvveeentially will bring it up. I dont want to hurt anyone, ever, and slowly I’m realizing that means I have to defend myself, even WHEN it hurts others. It’s been a problem For me to make boundaries, and LS had a lot to do with me building a backbone.

 

So yeah, if she doesn’t feel the need to reach out for me, but only receive it, then what’s the point of being with her? as In, if my energy is going only one way, I’ll eventually run out (have already run out.) I don’t want to run out, because I want to always please her, but I can’t do that on an empty tank

[Missing4]

It doesn't make any sense to me that if you're leaving her because of no sex and touch, that you wouldn't want to get into a new relationship with sex and touch. Then why leave?

 

Because you probably also tell that there’s resentment growing within the posts in this thread. I don’t want that. I want to work on it together. I’m running out of energy, and it’s costing me emotional turmoil. I don’t want to take care of another person that isn’t able to keep an equilibrium with me. Moving out with my kid is fine, because there’s balance. It used to be like that, but time changes everything after all.

 

I don’t want to leave.

[Turning point]

Exactly. She’s shut down. I’ve listened. I’ve definitely not been great until now, and I’ll continue to work on myself. Please realize that I’ve been actively trying to cover her needs as she has told me about them throughout our relationship. I’ve been wrong to not ask her to do the same for me. I’ve definitey asked, but in a passive aggressive way in the past, or through pleading, but again, that was years ago before all this change.

 

What do you mean be a student? I’m not exaggerating when I say that at THIS point she’s not giving me ANY direction, because there’s nothing for me to change about myself anymore. Those are her words too :/

 

Could you expand on your request?

 

You're expecting something NOW (a 6 month deadline) from a person who you admit you haven't been great with for YEARS. Does that seem like a realistic goal to you?

 

She hasn't divorced you so, there's that. You also don't seem to have a clue about what SHE wants and I don't think you can put that all on her. What was the reason you chose HER to cheat with, and what was the impetus for then marrying her? What was her reason for getting with you and her reason to marry you?

 

What about those motivations is different today?

[DKT3]

You dont need to justify why you are feed up within your marriage. If your needs aren't being met then you are well within your rights to walk away no matter who attempts to bend your expectations to theirs. Sex and physical touch is a big part of marriage, its wrong for one to make the unilateral decision that sex is off the table. Living with someone who doesn't desire you beyond being a walking wallet or business partner in a marriage has to tough.

[S2B]

Keep a diary each day for a few weeks mapping out what you need and what she gives/does.

 

Then review it with her after that timeline.

 

Show her evidence of your needs vs what she does/doesn’t do.

 

Ask plain and simply if she can change things to accommodate your needs.

 

Her answer should allow you to determine if you plan to proceed.

 

In essence... you are gathering your evidence.

[DKT3]

What was the reason you chose HER to cheat with, and what was the impetus for then marrying her? What was her reason for getting with you and her reason to marry you?

 

What about those motivations is different today?

 

This relationship has pretty much gone as one can expect. Belly up. Affairs turned legitimate fail at an alarmingly high rate, mostly because you have two people who dont really understand commitment and lack the skills to navigate difficult times in relationships.

 

The wife likely fell for the image she created but the man failed to match the image and she checked out.

 

Nonetheless, they are married now and neither have been getting what they want.

[Missing4]

You dont need to justify why you are feed up within your marriage. If your needs aren't being met then you are well within your rights to walk away no matter who attempts to bend your expectations to theirs. Sex and physical touch is a big part of marriage, its wrong for one to make the unilateral decision that sex is off the table. Living with someone who doesn't desire you beyond being a walking wallet or business partner in a marriage has to tough.

 

This pretty much sums it up. It’s hard to convey it all through posts but I’ll try. I’ve gained a lot of insight from LS, so I hope this may help someone someday.